East India Company

[frogbeastegg]

This thread replaces the one started by Slaists and completely derailed by talk of ETW.

Please talk about East India Company. Comparison with ETW is acceptable provided that the post - and thread - remain on topic i.e. focused on East India Company. This is not an ETW forum, and this thread is not about ETW!

Posts which cannot manage this will be deleted. I will not have a repeat of that last thread. :hairpin2:



Slaist's original post from the other thread:

East India Company goes gold. Release date scheduled for end of July in the US...

Read the blog on naval warfare: interesting details there (http://www.eic-game.com/?page=blog_12).

[Reverend Joe]

Why do you hate freedom?

[frogbeastegg]

I hate topics being flooded with off-topic material which belongs in an entirely different forum. Out of 27 posts only 4 were about the game the topic was dedicated to. 4!

If you want to talk about ETW we have an entire series of forums dedicated to it. If you dispute my decision, take it up with me via PM or the watch tower.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I've only read RPS coverage of the game, but it sounded good. Is there a demo?

[Mailman653]

No demo that I know of, but they were giving away beta keys for it a few weeks ago. If you preorder on Steam you get the expansion pack for free, it includes a pirate faction.

[Zenicetus]

Okay, here's a start. I've read the two dev diaries on naval tactics, and watched a video on their site. It looks promising, but I'd need to play a demo, or read a really in-depth review from a fellow naval nut before buying it. A few concerns:

The graphics look okay. Not quite as good as ETW's naval battles with the ship modeling and damage, and there's something odd about the look of the water. On the other hand, the skies and weather look good, and apparently you can have night (or dusk) battles. There is a mode where you can command an individual ship and move to various places on the deck during a battle. That could be interesting, and it gets away from the "toy boats" look with overhead views.

Lip service is paid to wind direction (just like CA did with ETW), but it's hard to tell from that one video whether it's realistic or not. And if it's not realistic, there are no real tactics (ETW, again). Square riggers are shown sailing suspiciously close to the wind direction, based on the mast flags and buoys. And I'd want to see if they'll repeat the mistake of "small ships faster and more maneuverable than big ones," which isn't how sailing ships and displacement hulls work. If the game is reasonably realistic with the sailing dynamics, it could be both challenging and fun, instead of just an arcade game with pretty graphics.

Apparently each side can have a maximum of 5 ships, so there will be no "grand battles." I suppose that's realistic since only national navies can support large fleets of the line, but it does restrict the potential a little bit. It means you'll just barely be able to send a few escorts along with some cargo ships.

Since cargo is central (a nice change from ETW, actually), on the one hand it adds an interesting dynamic about protecting cargo vs. fighting. On the other hand, most gamers I know aren't that fond of escort-type missions. If most sea battles involve protecting cargo, I'm not sure how fun it will be in the long run... unless you can play as basically a pirate raider. That could be fun.
:pirate2:

From what I can tell, you build up a trade empire by establishing trade routes and building ships, with no land-side management at all; no territorial occupation and expansion. The trading side sounds lie a spreadsheet game, so the naval battles really need to be varied and fun. There doesn't seem much else there for replay value.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the reviews, and I hope they release a demo. It's an unusual concept for a game these days. It looks like someone on the dev team (or the whole team) has a deep interest in that period of sea trade and combat, so it could be very good.

[Mailman653]

Since cargo is central (a nice change from ETW, actually), on the one hand it adds an interesting dynamic about protecting cargo vs. fighting. On the other hand, most gamers I know aren't that fond of escort-type missions. If most sea battles involve protecting cargo, I'm not sure how fun it will be in the long run... unless you can play as basically a pirate raider. That could be fun.
:pirate2:

From what I can tell, you build up a trade empire by establishing trade routes and building ships, with no land-side management at all; no territorial occupation and expansion. The trading side sounds lie a spreadsheet game, so the naval battles really need to be varied and fun. There doesn't seem much else there for replay value.

Thats where the Pirate add-on comes in. You don't have to trade for anything or build up an empire. All you do is raid commerce and try to amass all the wealth you can in about 20-30 years.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/900925/

If your more of an RPG person, try looking around for this game http://en.akella.com/Game.aspx?id=32

[Slaists]

Okay, here's a start. I've read the two dev diaries on naval tactics, and watched a video on their site. It looks promising, but I'd need to play a demo, or read a really in-depth review from a fellow naval nut before buying it. A few concerns:

The graphics look okay. Not quite as good as ETW's naval battles with the ship modeling and damage, and there's something odd about the look of the water. On the other hand, the skies and weather look good, and apparently you can have night (or dusk) battles. There is a mode where you can command an individual ship and move to various places on the deck during a battle. That could be interesting, and it gets away from the "toy boats" look with overhead views.

Lip service is paid to wind direction (just like CA did with ETW), but it's hard to tell from that one video whether it's realistic or not. And if it's not realistic, there are no real tactics (ETW, again). Square riggers are shown sailing suspiciously close to the wind direction, based on the mast flags and buoys. And I'd want to see if they'll repeat the mistake of "small ships faster and more maneuverable than big ones," which isn't how sailing ships and displacement hulls work. If the game is reasonably realistic with the sailing dynamics, it could be both challenging and fun, instead of just an arcade game with pretty graphics.



Unfortunately they have done just that (what I've bolded above). There are unit reviews somewhere on their site. Small ships all have "fast speed" as their attribute whereas the large ones are slow.

[al Roumi]

Unfortunately they have done just that (what I've bolded above). There are unit reviews somewhere on their site. Small ships all have "fast speed" as their attribute whereas the large ones are slow.

If that's true, this could be lame...

I had momentary high hopes that this could offer more depth and accuracy that ETW does to trading, piracy and naval battles.

I'm sure i read a dev diary that mentioned fortifying and garrisoning ports, as well as improvable dock-yards. No comment on land battles though, I'm guessing that would be "sailing too close to the wind" (pardon the pun) of ETW.

[Reverend Joe]

Apparently each side can have a maximum of 5 ships, so there will be no "grand battles." I suppose that's realistic since only national navies can support large fleets of the line, but it does restrict the potential a little bit. It means you'll just barely be able to send a few escorts along with some cargo ships.

Five ships? Bleah. That gives me bad memories of my idiotic decision to buy Imperial glory. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_glory) If ETW can have 20 ships per side in a battle, this game has no excuse not to.

The other thing that bothers me is the lack of tactics. Okay, true, naval battles at the time could be fairly disorganized, but I'm sure the history experts can think of some tactics that could have been implemented... Monastery freaks, I look to you.

[al Roumi]

There is a lot of strategy that can go into a truly good Naval game. Especially an Age of Sail type naval game like this one wants to be. Unfortunately they can't even get more hull displacement = faster correct, so I don't have high hopes.

I guess the concept of moving entirely based on the wind, which is quite invisible and better "felt" makes it harder for it to be well implemented in a game?

That said Sid meire's pirates!, although quite cheerfully arcady, at least got the wind thing playable and satisfactorily credible.

[Zenicetus]

A properly done Naval game would only appeal to people that like deep strategy, numbers, and charts. Think Silent Hunter on the hardest settings, and then triple that. Trying to sacrifice realism in order for some allegedly superior playability and marketability only creates a mediocre game that annoys everyone.

That's certainly true when the game company makes a fixed, inflexible design. There used to be a tradition in PC tactical simulation games, where the player was offered a screen full of sliders to adjust realism settings. Silent Hunter does that to an extent, with things like historical dud torpedoes that you can turn off, auto-targeting settings, etc. But it's still a "hardcore" sim because it requires massive amounts of patience for stalking and evasion, with very brief interludes of excitement/terror.

A sailing combat game has the potential to be more "exciting" in the conventional gaming sense. And it could appeal to a wide audience if the player is given a wide range of choice on a realism configuration panel, like the better combat flight sims. You could choose realistic wind, or driving around like motorboats ignoring the wind. You could choose realistic speeds for ship sizes, or more of a rock-paper-scissors game. It's more work for the game developer, but it maximizes the potential gaming audience. ETW blew it (at least from my hardcore sim perspective), by deciding they'd do only one type of naval game for one type of arcade gamer audience, and not including a realism option.

It sounds like this new EIC game is going down that path too, but let's see what the actual game is like. We're doing a lot of pre-judging here. I really hope there's a demo.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Oh totally, yeah. A simulation should always have options to make it easier, and customization is key. But they ought to be made with the hardcore crowd in mind.

Kind of off-topic though as this game looks more like it'll be that middle-ground where they make a fun system of trading and fighting, and half-heartedly attempt to ground it in historical accuracy. I'm sure it'll be passable and fun, but I wish someone would make a really good, state-of-the-art, in-depth, Naval Sim. Of any age. I'd be as likely to play one about the Age of Sail as I would for one about the Russo-Japanese war, or whatever.

Silent hunter games are pretty great

[Mailman653]

Theres also Destroyer Command and another modern submarine sim which name escapes me at the moment as well.

[Marshal Murat]

I'm a fan of the "spreadsheet games", just because it's actually kinda fun (Port Royale 2, *that Hanseatic League one*)

That's why I'm liking this East India Company game, they're moving away from a very European sphere to one that seems to include India, China, and Southeast Asia. I wish they'd done one set earlier between Islam/India/China, but anyway.

I do like the different views of battle, where you can actually look on battle-deck guns firing away. I'll consider buying this, yeah.

[Mailman653]

I wonder if the game lets you load your guns with different kind of shots. For instance I load my port and starboard guns with regular shot while I load my bow chasers with chain shot.

[Zenicetus]

I'm a fan of the "spreadsheet games", just because it's actually kinda fun (Port Royale 2, *that Hanseatic League one*)


If you like "spreadsheet games," you might want to look at Dawn of Discovery (Anno 1404 outside the U.S.). I just tried the demo, and it looks like the mother of all spreadsheet exploration/trading/empire building games.

It's not strictly historical, but follows the general theme of the meeting of Western and Eastern cultures in the 1400's-1500's. The combat element is downplayed, very simplistic and non-tactical. Based on the demo, it looks a little too "Sim City" for me personally. The economic/building/trading system seems like a lot to keep track of (i.e. need to build x number of resources and y fabs to produce z product). I'll probably pass on it, unless I get starved for a strategy game in the next few months.

[ElectricEel]

I just read on the Paradox forums that the demo for this game will be made available on the 31st. I'll certainly check it out...

[Yun Dog]

Yey I was stupid enough to buy this on impulse, when pre ordering HOI3. :embarassed:

No i bought it on Gamergate but I mean I bought it without thinking about it.

Game is pretty boring,

Naval battles are boring and dont look as good as ETW - so wont be playing it for those

The whole thing feels like a mess - the 3d battles dont mesh with the feel of the strategic game, sail to india, buy stuff, sail back home, sell it, make money, buy bigger ship - if that sounds to hard you can automate it, and go and watch Red Cliff at the movies.

thats the game


they spent time on a 3d port view - which serves no function other than take ages to load - they already came out with a patch so people can disable it after the first time they goto port (which everyone did) so someone wasted alot of time 3d modelling all the trading ports for nothing LOLZ



I havent played it much but have been playing Anno 1404 - cause the trading in that is better than the trading game I just bought

What a Ship Wreck!!

I even got the pirate bay addon which I havent even looked at

Man the ship battles are so clunky and horrible - the ships bob above the waves - the damage is templated - yuk yuk yuk yuk

and I am now a proud owner of this floater :thumbsdown:

maybe I'll get into it when Im bored of every other game on my pC - and get a few bucks value for my 40USDs

ouch my ass hurts

CAUSE I BEEN POKED!!!!

[Husar]

I'm sorry Lord Yunson, maybe I should have posted about my demo experience... :oops:

And here I always wonder why so many people don't try the demos before they buy, demos have saved me a lot of money so far. :laugh4:

[Mailman653]

I'm sorry Lord Yunson, maybe I should have posted about my demo experience... :oops:

And here I always wonder why so many people don't try the demos before they buy, demos have saved me a lot of money so far. :laugh4:

I didn't know they had a demo out. :inquisitive:

Too bad to hear that the combat is so poor in the game, looked like it had some potential.

[Yun Dog]

Dont shed too many tears fellas - I knew I was taking a risk and shouldve checked the forums.

I played a bit more last night

no doubt some of the sailor types will tell you its a more realistic sailing simulation

but ever since I heard women and seamen dont mix

I never wanted to be a seaman

and Ive only got a mouse and cant reef the mainsail myself and as a captain I shouldnt have to.

so for me the ships handle like slow unresponsive turds bobbing in the toilet bowl

I ty to capture a ship - the principle - disable the ship - come along side and board - seems simple enough

So I use chain to shoot the sails - the templated sail damage and demasting (same in every ship) takes place. They are adrift, dead in the water.

Now just to come along side - Aye theres the rub

I would think as a captain - I would tell the mate to bring her along side and this would happen

No you have to painstakingly manouver the ship to within mm of the other ship while both ships are drifting about, and then when you think youve got it lined up your ship turns away from the other ship for some reason I dont know Im sure

so you spend an hour trying to get along side close enough to board - oh and did I mention that they dont lose any cannon, and the two guys that you didnt strafe off the deck can fire a full broadside!!!

So while you manouver around over and over again, you cop full broadsides, maybe you'll lose a ship or two, and an hour of your life.

this was me after attempting to board a ship on EIC for an hour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0

[Husar]

I just had one sea battle in which a pirate ship incapacitated two of my three ships.
I got the impression that the only way to make my ships attack was to right click the enemy , there were no range indicators or anything like that either and obviously just right clicking did not work out too well...
Since it was ugly and dark as well and the ships seemed to show some really weird fighting behaviour I gave up on EIC ship battles after that. :sweatdrop:

[Yun Dog]

I just had one sea battle in which a pirate ship incapacitated two of my three ships.
I got the impression that the only way to make my ships attack was to right click the enemy , there were no range indicators or anything like that either and obviously just right clicking did not work out too well...
Since it was ugly and dark as well and the ships seemed to show some really weird fighting behaviour I gave up on EIC ship battles after that. :sweatdrop:

Yeh, Im sure alot of the naval types dont like the firing arcs being visable etc, but I like it and I find the ship and firing control alot easier and more intutive in ETW. In EIC if you click on the commander you can get like captains control over each ship so you can target and fire rather than just right clicking on the enemy ship - which I agree, was exactly what I did and it took me ages to find the other controls. Im sure with a bit of learning you could get more out of the ship battles - but with ETW your straight in there - and it looks far superior eye candy wise.

[Krauser]

Gamespot and IGN have posted their reviews.

GameSpot (6.5 "Fair") (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/eastindiacompany/review.html)
IGN (7.7 "Good") (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1009404p1.html)