Armenian Ethnicity

[Sarkiss]

i was meaning to post this long time ago but never got around to actually doing it...

Armenian ethnicity, Hai Aznvakan Hayasdanits, which literally means Armenian Noble from Armenia, mentions Skythians but to my surprise doesnt at all mention locals and what is considered to be proto Armenians and a core of emerging nation - tribes of Hayasa, Nairi, or Urartians for that matter. neither does it say a word about the migration of Armens from Balkans, a fusion of which with the above mentioned indigenous inhabitants would form a new Armenian nation. instead of all that there are Skythians presented as a core Armenian nobility. why?

[chenkai11]

I can't answer your questions, but I am very much interested in this thread. Let us wait for the experts.

Warning: No spam on this one!

[vartan]

Sarkiss, that's because of western Armenians' false idea that Skythians are a main component of the Armenian culture (give me a break!). This might come from their idea that Skayorti was Skythian (wow, just wow). He was actually son of Hskan, therefore Hskayi-vorti, just slurred like other words into Skayorti. Anyways, I didn't notice the Armenian Nobility page didn't do a proper job of description. Thanks for bringing it up, I do hope it gets resolved soon. Sad to see such a big miss.

Take care axper,
Vartan

[/Bean\]

Foot's the Hai guy, isn't he? He'll probably know.

[Foot]

Because ethnicities are not meant to be a histiographical treatise on the growth and development of tribal cultures in the Caucasus Region, and their assimilation into the Armenian language group under the Reign of Artashes I. They are meant to indicate how the people may have described themselves (or each other). So theories of origins and the like ain't really appropriate.

I took special mention of the large Skythian community in the Caucasus region, because they offered the most oppurtunity for providing a little role-play to the proceedings. Given their low percentage it can hardly be said that they have been represented as a core Armenian nobility.

Given that I am not of Armenian descent, I couldn't give a flying f**k what modern, nationalistic bullshit Armenians like spouting nowadays. So I hardly think that it would be relevant to my design decisions.

Foot

[vartan]

EDIT: Hold on a second Sarkiss, what Skythians? I can't believe it, the description doesn't mention anything about Skythians. I think you need to install EB 1.2 my friend.

Check this:

"Armenian Noble from Hayasdan - This man hails from the land of Hayasdan, cradled beneath the great Caucasus Mountains, rich and fertile for farming. The tribes of Hayasdan, descended from the original Nairi and the migratory Armina, are a settled people, skilled in the farming of the fertile valleys and the rearing of livestock and horses. While the summer months are warm and life-giving the winter months are harsh - snow cutting off many of the disconnected valleys within which the many of the Hai people. The power within these regions, difficult as they are to getto, focuses around the ruling families of the local tribes, who, over the years, have formed themselves into a landed, hereditary aristocracy. It is a family such as this that this man hails from and through his services and friendship to the Hai King he has been given special responsibilities in the running of Hayasdan.

This man's ethnicity has an effect on the acquisition of certain traits."

So...where did you read something about Skythians there?

[bobbin]

Its a bit confusing but there are two versions of that text that go with the surname Hayasdanits.


{Hai_Azat_Hayasdan} Hai Aznvakan Hayasdanits

{Hai_Azat_Hayasdan_desc}
Armenian Noble from Hayasdan - This man hails from the land of Hayasdan, cradled beneath the great Caucasus Mountains, rich and fertile for farming. The tribes of Hayasdan, descended from the original Nairi and the migratory Armina, are a settled people, skilled in the farming of the fertile valleys and the rearing of livestock and horses. While the summer months are warm and life-giving the winter months are harsh - snow cutting off many of the disconnected valleys within which the many of the Hai people. The power within these regions, difficult as they are to get to, focuses around the ruling families of the local tribes, who, over the years, have formed themselves into a landed, hereditary aristocracy. It is a family such as this that this man hails from and through his services and friendship to the Hai King he has been given special responsibilities in the running of Hayasdan.


Which describes a "native" armenian.




{HaiSkyut_Azat_Hayasdan_desc}
Armenian Noble from Hayasdan - This man hails from the land of Hayasdan, cradled beneath the Great Caucasus Mountains, rich and fertile for farming. The Scythian tribes who settled here after their invasion centuries ago hold land to the east of Lake Sevan and are on amiable terms with the Hai tribes nearby. Though few in number, these Scythian people are fiercely independent and though settled still hold on to many of their old traditions and ways of life, including their superb horsemanship. Because of the small region that the Scythians cover and the relative simple life they lead, the men have little need for any sort of formal administration of their lands and money. This man comes from one of the ruling families of a Scythian tribe and has, through gifts and proof of loyalty been given a trusted post in the court of the Hai King.\n\nThis man has fully embraced the land and culture that his family has served for many years, he may still retain some identity with his old roots, but he would no call himself Armenian before Scythian.


If I understand it correctly this one represents a Skythian who has almost fully adopted Armenian culture (it is part of a set of ethnic traits that represent various levels of intergration of Skythians into Hai society). The typo at the end made it a bit confusing at first i think it should say "but he would now call himself Armenian before Scythian."

[vartan]

And there we go. Thanks friend!

[Vasiliyi]

I have something to ask myself. Although I haven't actually played as Hayasdan for more than a few turns, i have noticed some of the units have like:

Kavakaza Sparabara
Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik

Have the "word" Kovkasi and Kavakaza in them. Now im assuming that those two words stand for "Caucasian". My question is if you are using that word the way Armenians use it, or the way Russians do. Because saying Kavakaza and Kovkasi means "the Caucasus" instead of "Caucasian". To say Caucasian you would need to write "Kovkaskiye" or "Kavakazkiye".

If you are using a different language then I do humbly apologize. I meant no offense if I am write either.

Cheers to the EB team for doing such a wonderful job. :2thumbsup:

[Sarkiss]

I have something to ask myself. Although I haven't actually played as Hayasdan for more than a few turns, i have noticed some of the units have like:

Kavakaza Sparabara
Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik

Have the "word" Kovkasi and Kavakaza in them. Now im assuming that those two words stand for "Caucasian". My question is if you are using that word the way Armenians use it, or the way Russians do. Because saying Kavakaza and Kovkasi means "the Caucasus" instead of "Caucasian". To say Caucasian you would need to write "Kovkaskiye" or "Kavakazkiye".

If you are using a different language then I do humbly apologize. I meant no offense if I am write either.

Cheers to the EB team for doing such a wonderful job. :2thumbsup:
why would they use the word the way Russians do?

thanks, bobbin, that explains. i havent come across that first ethnicity and got an impression that the only description Armenian noble form Hayastan gets was the one that describes him as a Scythian.

[Sarkiss]

Given that I am not of Armenian descent, I couldn't give a flying f**k what modern, nationalistic bullshit Armenians like spouting nowadays. So I hardly think that it would be relevant to my design decisions.

Foot
Foot, even if you are of an Armenian descent doesnt automatically mean you are a member Armenian Aryan Union:inquisitive:

[vartan]

Foot, even if you are of an Armenian descent doesnt automatically mean you are a member Armenian Aryan Union:inquisitive:

Seconded.


I have something to ask myself. Although I haven't actually played as Hayasdan for more than a few turns, i have noticed some of the units have like:

Kavakaza Sparabara
Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik

Have the "word" Kovkasi and Kavakaza in them. Now im assuming that those two words stand for "Caucasian". My question is if you are using that word the way Armenians use it, or the way Russians do. Because saying Kavakaza and Kovkasi means "the Caucasus" instead of "Caucasian". To say Caucasian you would need to write "Kovkaskiye" or "Kavakazkiye".

If you are using a different language then I do humbly apologize. I meant no offense if I am write either.

Cheers to the EB team for doing such a wonderful job. :2thumbsup:

Kovkasi is Armenian for Caucasian. As for Kavakaza, I'd recommend you find out which language that is in before manipulating it.

[Vasiliyi]

Seconded.



Kovkasi is Armenian for Caucasian. As for Kavakaza, I'd recommend you find out which language that is in before manipulating it.

This is exactly what I was wondering. I assumed they did do their homework and used a different language. I apologize, but I didnt actually think they were wrong. Thanks for the answer.

[Foot]

The language used is persian (middle I believe). This is because they are regional, rather than factional units.

Foot