The perpetual misfortunes of Sir Odo Borleng

[I of the Storm]

Hi all,

whenever I play the English in Early, at one point or another around 1130-40, a hero of that name pops up who always has the vice "Captured". I couldn't find any historical info on him, so if anyone knows about him and the reason why CA scripted that "captured" vice on him, I'd be grateful. The relevant file only says that he was the captain of Henry Is household troops in 1120, and so says wikipedia. I couldn't find more. Thanks.

[caravel]

As a "Hero general", he has been set up with that vice in the default heroes text file - which means he'll always start with it. I'm not sure why though. As to the historical figure, there's little info on the net about him, which makes me think there must be a few alternate spellings (which is often the case) though I've no idea what they would be.

:bow:

[Jxrc]

The historical character is Odo of Bayeux.

No idea where the "Borleng" bit comes from (Bayeux in old norse ?).

The time frame and "captured" trait do match since Odo the Bayeux was tried and imprisioned for a few years for some kind of conspiracy against the king (but do check if you can spare the time...).

Finally, IIRC correctly he pops up a bit before 1100. As far as I recall, if you produce ten units of holibars in a row as from 1087, he shows up among the last ones (just after Tancred of Normandy).

[I of the Storm]

Ok, I'll try to find something on him. Thanks so far.

[caravel]

Odo Borleng and Odon de Bayeux (Odo of Bayeux) are not the same according to the heroes text file:


FAMOUS_HEROES:: FN_ENGLISH 20
//hero name date, c,d,p,a,l,v,


"Odon", "de Bayeux", 1036, 2,3,3,4,5, no_v, BISHOP, ID_LIMBO, -1 //William's half-brother; commissioned Bayeux tapestry


"Tancred","de Normandie", 1078, 3,3,3,3,3, moneygrabber1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //1st Crusade, ruled Tiberias, Antioch and Edessa


"Odo", "Borleng", 1080, 3,4,3,2,5, captured1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Captain of Henry I's Household troops 1120s


"Strongbow","FitzGilbert",1115, 5,6,4,5,5, moneygrabber2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1

//Richard FitzGilbert of Clare, English adventurer, cause of Henry II's Irish mission


"Thomas","Beckett", 1118, 1,1,6,3,2, pious1, BISHOP, ID_LIMBO, -1 //"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?"


"John", "Mercadier", 1145, 2,7,3,4,6, prisoner_killer2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Mercenary under Richard I; flayed the crossbowman who killed Big Dick.


"William","Marshall", 1147, 4,3,3,5,6,mightywarrior2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Regent 1216-8, top general


"Blondel","de Nesle", 1155, 1,0,4,3,7, no_v, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Richard I's troubadour and organiser of his ransom


"Simon","de Montfort the Elder",1160, 3,5,2,4,3, rebel_killer3, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Leader of the Albigensian Crusade


"Roger","Mortimer", 1287, 3,6,2,4,1, secret_prisoner_killer4, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //The man with red-hot poker up the King's bum


"Hugh", "Calveley", 1322, 1,2,3,2,5,siege_defender1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //knight-adventurer in Spain and France


"John", "Hawkwood", 1323, 3,3,3,4,3, no_v, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Leader of the mercenary White Company


"Jean", "de Grailly", 1330, 4,3,3,2,3, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Gascon mercenary, Constable of Aquitaine


"Robert","Knollys", 1331, 3,5,3,4,5, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Master of the Black Prince's Household, captured du Guesclin


"Geoffrey","Chaucer", 1340, 1,0,3,2,5, educated2, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Courtier under Edward III


"Thomas","Camoys", 1360, 3,3,4,3,4, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //commander, left wing @ Agincourt


"Henry","Percy", 1364, 3,4,3,3,2,mightywarrior2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //"Hotspur"; Percys were"Kings of the North"; fought against Henry V


"John", "Talbot", 1387, 3,5,3,6,4,against_odds_atk1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //earl of Shrewsbury, 1422; ruthless raider


"Guy","of Gisbourne", 1190, 3,2,2,2,1, killer1, ASSASSIN, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Sheriff of Nottingham's sidekick


"Richard","Neville", 1418, 3,4,3,6,4, fearsome1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Warwick the Kingmaker

-Edit: I found references to Odo Borleng in this book (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a3dy-gEhSu8C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0) (use the search). This also confirms Bayeux and Borleng as not being the same (they are from different centuries I think and Borleng was Henry I's general, whereas Bayeux was William's half brother. (well done to CA for once...)) - I would read it but I need to get back to work...

[Ludens]

The historical character is Odo of Bayeux.

Yes, Odo of Bayeux fought at the battle of Hastings, so he would have been a geraitric in 1100.

[Jxrc]

Yes, Odo of Bayeux fought at the battle of Hastings, so he would have been a geriatric in 1100.

I dig a bit and found out that Odo of Bayeux died in Palermo in 1097 after he had joined the first crusade. He was about sixty at the time but still green enough ...

Regarding Caravel's point, fair enough but it seems weird that a bishop with that name should appear in 1036 since the game start in 1087 ... He is not the only one with strange arrival date but while I have seen all others I can't recall having encountered any bishop with that name ever ... Perhaps that line is somehow "inactive" now ?

In any event, Caravel got me puzzled enough and I had a little more time to look it up.

If found references Eudes Borleng, Odon Borleng and/or Odo Borleng. It seems to be one single guy since the opposite solution would mean that a series of guys with very similar names would have been governors of Bernay (a city close to what is currently Normandy so it seems to make sense) at about the same time... Seems more likely that the same guy with a name slightly changed depending on the source was in charge.

The references I found can be found on the following sites:

http://collections.geneanet.org/ouvrages/?rech=BORLENG&book_type=livre&action=search&tk=ed2c146a7e15762d

(unfortunately the references are all in French and you need to subscribe to a service for the full text)

http://www.ac-rouen.fr/hist_geo/pdg/5h/HPE04/fiche_04_cinquieme.htm

This is a school exercise in French in which they students are asked to analyse an extract from the "Histoire Ecclésisatique". Odon Borleng is referred as one of the guy dealing with a revolt by a vassal of the king of England around 1124

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waleran_de_Beaumont,_1st_Earl_of_Worcester

That one is in English so I can skip the general description. Reference to the same revolt as the one above by Borleng involvement is less certain apparently ...

My first idea was therefore not correct.

Sorry for that. The "captured" vice & the memory that Odo of Bayeux was kept in jail quite a while made me jump to a rushed conclusion.

:whip::whip::whip::whip::oops::oops::oops:

No idea why the actual Odo Borleng has been given the captured V&V by the developers since I have found no reference about him being imprisoned.

[caravel]

Regarding Caravel's point, fair enough but it seems weird that a bishop with that name should appear in 1036 since the game start in 1087 ... He is not the only one with strange arrival date but while I have seen all others I can't recall having encountered any bishop with that name ever ... Perhaps that line is somehow "inactive" now ?
It's not his arrival date it's actually his birth date. Yes even agents have an age and are "born". Those that pre date the Early era start date are already born. But the only agents/units that have their ages displayed are princesses and royal units in direct line to the throne. The "heroes" are given an age, they presumably then mature, I'm not sure what age heroes mature at but it shouldn't too hard to find out, and than appear the next time their unit type is trained. For Agents that's pretty straightforward, for generals IIRC they will command the next "general candidate" unit trained (certain units are set up as preferred general candidates and some are not). If you don't train many units the heroes will start to queue up.

This is probably a relic from how heirs matured in STW. They were set up before hand with ages and would then be born and mature at certain times. Heirs would not have their own special units but would take command of the next unit trained - this fits well with how heros work and suggest that the heros system is a left over of the old STW heirs system. This would indicate that the new heirs system in MTW is either an entirely new routine, or one based on the faction leader's routine.

I cannot ever recall seeing that particular Bishop either. The problem is that when the game starts he'd be about 51 so perhaps this cancels him out from ever appearing?

If you look at that section of the file I posted, you'll also notice that some agents were assigned V&Vs. It may have been the intention at one stage to add these to agents.

[I of the Storm]

No idea why the actual Odo Borleng has been given the captured V&V by the developers since I have found no reference about him being imprisoned.

Neither did I. I've been reading a bit myself and I'm pretty sure now that the Odo Borleng from the game represents the historical Odo Borleng who dealt with the revolt of the mentioned Waleran against Henry I. I haven't found the slightest indication of him being imprisoned at one point or another in his life. So while the identity of the hero has been verified, the "captured" vice remains arcane CA knowledge.
Thank you so far, gentlemen, this has been extremely helpful.
:bow:

[Jxrc]

It's not his arrival date it's actually his birth date.
I cannot ever recall seeing that particular Bishop either. The problem is that when the game starts he'd be about 51 so perhaps this cancels him out from ever appearing?

On top of that when the game start, the English do not have a keep so that the sooner you could get him would be 1102 (1087 + 10 for keep +4 for church + 1 for bishop). He would then be 66, which is quite old in the game even for a bishop.

To see if he is actually in the game, one would have to mod the starting position to give the brits a church so that they can create a bishop in the first round (not able to do that myself :shame:).

Another possible check would be not to produce a specific type of agent during the period opened for the appearance of a "hero". Not to produce assassin between 1205 and 1255 comes to mind. If Gisbourne turns out even though he would then be 65, that would mean that "heroes" do not disappear if not used before they become 60 and that Odo de Bailleux is just not in the game for some reason.

Another solution would be only to produce spearmen and archers until 1138 to see if Trancred of Normandy shows up or if you get a "more recent" general insead. The drawback is that you'll have a rather tough start against the French ...