Suggestions For EB2 Based On Playing Stainless Steel Mod

[Space_Ed]

Yeah so I've been playing Stainless Steel mod for a few days now. It is a massive improvement on M2TW and to me is really what the original should have been like.

Around 1220 in the game some new factions emerge: the Teutons, the Mongols and.... sum1 else that I cant remember right now... anyway I dont see why this couldn't be done in EB. The factions are all playable too if you start in the late era rather than the early era. As far as EB is concerned if these late appearing factions were to be playable then there would have to be starting points other than in 272BC. Otherwise if they wern't playable then no big deal. You guys will know more about good candidates for late appearing factions but I would suggest pehaps the Teutons or some other marauding barbarian faction... although EB is going to finish in 14AD so they shouldn't really matter. Maybe the Yuezhi or someone else, anyway theres one possibility.

Something that annoys me about M2TW is that I think some of the landscapes are a bit rubbish. Are these going to be improved at all? Even in deserts theres sporadically placed bushes and palm trees. It doesn't look realistic at all to me. There are plants darted about randomly and it just doesnt look right to me at all. Some of the landscapes in EB1 look amazing and realistic to me such as some areas of Britain, Spain and a lot of the deserts. Is there going to be much effort in EB2 for realistic and amazing looking landscapes? Because that seems to be one of the main failures of M2TW Stainless Steel over EB1. I think the landscapes in ur mod on Rome:TW are generally much better than SS for M2TW.

Perhaps the being excommunicated thing could be used in other ways such as to simulate civil conflict...

I'm sure this must have been thought of before but perhaps the crusade function could be adapted for barbarian factions for mass migrations into Gaul and Italy. This might be more effective than having late appearing factions. Theres Jihads and Crusades so I know it could be applied to at least two groups of people so aswell as marauding Germans etc you could have other people doing similar things.. I don't know any other examples of this happening in the time frame but there probably are some. If this were to be applied then I think if its possible I think it would be better for them to 'crusade' against multiple cities rather than just one. e.g. cities in southern France and northern Italy.

Finally, the campaign map AI is SOOO MUCH BETTER in SS than in any Rome:TW mod. The Punic wars will be so much better in EB2 because they actually board ships and land armies on coasts. Scotland has got a castle in Holland!

[Space_Ed]

Ah yeah I think one of the most disappointing areas of the current EB1 map is the Black Forest area of Germany. As far as I can tell it basically doesn't exist in the current game... well there isn't anything that looks much like this...

http://www.greatholidayhomes.com/graphics/forest4.jpg

http://www.destination360.com/europe/germany/images/s/germany-black-forest.jpg

http://taos-telecommunity.org/EPOW/EPOW-Archive/archive_2007/EPOW-070219_files/Black%

http://www.baden-baden.de/imperia/md/images/bilderbbt/natur/n003.jpg

I'm sure something like that could be pulled off for EB2. Yeah it would be really hard to control an army in that and you would find it hard to work out whats going on but thats what real life was like and thats why the Romans got their arses kicked in Germany at Teutogerg etc.

[Alsatia]

Yeah so I've been playing Stainless Steel mod for a few days now. It is a massive improvement on M2TW and to me is really what the original should have been like.

Around 1220 in the game some new factions emerge: the Teutons, the Mongols and.... sum1 else that I cant remember right now... anyway I dont see why this couldn't be done in EB. The factions are all playable too if you start in the late era rather than the early era. As far as EB is concerned if these late appearing factions were to be playable then there would have to be starting points other than in 272BC. Otherwise if they wern't playable then no big deal. You guys will know more about good candidates for late appearing factions but I would suggest pehaps the Teutons or some other marauding barbarian faction... although EB is going to finish in 14AD so they shouldn't really matter. Maybe the Yuezhi or someone else, anyway theres one possibility.

Something that annoys me about M2TW is that I think some of the landscapes are a bit rubbish. Are these going to be improved at all? Even in deserts theres sporadically placed bushes and palm trees. It doesn't look realistic at all to me. There are plants darted about randomly and it just doesnt look right to me at all. Some of the landscapes in EB1 look amazing and realistic to me such as some areas of Britain, Spain and a lot of the deserts. Is there going to be much effort in EB2 for realistic and amazing looking landscapes? Because that seems to be one of the main failures of M2TW Stainless Steel over EB1. I think the landscapes in ur mod on Rome:TW are generally much better than SS for M2TW.

Perhaps the being excommunicated thing could be used in other ways such as to simulate civil conflict...

I'm sure this must have been thought of before but perhaps the crusade function could be adapted for barbarian factions for mass migrations into Gaul and Italy. This might be more effective than having late appearing factions. Theres Jihads and Crusades so I know it could be applied to at least two groups of people so aswell as marauding Germans etc you could have other people doing similar things.. I don't know any other examples of this happening in the time frame but there probably are some. If this were to be applied then I think if its possible I think it would be better for them to 'crusade' against multiple cities rather than just one. e.g. cities in southern France and northern Italy.

Finally, the campaign map AI is SOOO MUCH BETTER in SS than in any Rome:TW mod. The Punic wars will be so much better in EB2 because they actually board ships and land armies on coasts. Scotland has got a castle in Holland!

It starts at 272 BC because any earlier then the Koinon, Baktria and Pontos cannot exist as factions. Any later then Pyrrhos will be dead, Romans control southern Italy and northern sicily.

Excommunication requires a "papal state" faction, wasting a faction slot.

The EB team has ruled out earlier about changing starting dates/eras system (imagine how long EBII will take, all that extra skinning and scripting). Emerging Factions have been excluded (see Yuezhi).

I also remember that The Jihad and Crusade option has been excluded as well. Jihad needs a religious agent, Crusade needs a papal state faction.

[Horatius Flaccus]

EB FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102768)


Q: Will the Pope and Cardinal elections be used in any way?
A: The pope and the cardinal elections require the usage of an unplayable faction slot. Since one of EB's goals is to have all factions as playable nations, these features will not be used.

Q: Will the Crusades/Jihad features of the M2TW engine be used?
A: The use of the crusades/jihads feature is still under discussion, though there have been some concepts devised for how they could be used during this period.

The Guild search function (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?f=235)

[Space_Ed]

Grazie

[Martelus Flavius]

Something that annoys me about M2TW is that I think some of the landscapes are a bit rubbish. Are these going to be improved at all? Even in deserts theres sporadically placed bushes and palm trees. It doesn't look realistic at all to me. There are plants darted about randomly and it just doesnt look right to me at all. Some of the landscapes in EB1 look amazing and realistic to me such as some areas of Britain, Spain and a lot of the deserts. Is there going to be much effort in EB2 for realistic and amazing looking landscapes? Because that seems to be one of the main failures of M2TW Stainless Steel over EB1. I think the landscapes in ur mod on Rome:TW are generally much better than SS for M2TW.

Well concerning the landscape, (I'm not knoweldgeable on other points!), be sure we'll try to make it as realistical as possible. Now concerning deserts, if I understood you correctly, do you mean that desert are only made of sand dunes? If yes, I'm sorry to say that this is not correct, desert are mainly stone paved, with bush and difficult to erase trees, they could be quite green in fact. At least sand dunes accounts only for 20-30% of the total desert area. Bush are totaly possible in sandy area as those are the first plant to colonize dunes if climatic condition changes, and become wetter. (This make bush also the last one to survive if climate become dryer.) Palm trees, this specific species is indeed not to be see in sand dunes, but could surely be found on other desert parts.

But well landscapes are not a priority now, there are many other thing to do. Also depicting correctly (or at least as accurately as possible) landscapes requires extensive research on climate of past, (for the alps it was like 0.5 degrees warmer than it is today, if I'm not mistaken.) and also a comprehensive geological knoweldege of the gigant area covered by our map.

Hope it anwers, at least a bit to your question.

Regards

Martelvs

[Space_Ed]

What do you think of me contributing to the mod by creating a file of loads of photos of areas around the world that are essentially untouched by humans that could be used as source material when designing the landscapes? I've got a lot of free time on my hands at the moment. I could also attach the information I can get on the landscape in the period. I'd happily do that. One of the joys for me in playing EB is the feeling of travelling to new and beautiful places. If everywhere looks dul and the same it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it for me.

Natural grouping of vegetation:

http://www.slowtrav.com/blog/candi/Open%20Plains%20NM,Acoma%202.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/SlY5DyCBOEI/AAAAAAAAJKQ/vaG8yJQdhJk/s400/2320133670102347975S500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/18049/2730604760102347975S600x600Q85.jpg

Relatively good piece of M2TW scenery:

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2006/11/Medieval_2_Total_War/02.jpg

Its not easy to find bad pieces of M2TW scenery on google but you can kind of see what I mean on these two pics. Some of the trees are not placed in a way I feel is very natural:

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/xfx_geforce_8800_ultra_xxx/screenshots/medieval2.jpg

http://www.cheats.ru/uploaded/m/medieval2totalwar03797.jpg

In real life trees generally dont pop up randomly unless they've been planted by people. Generally they are in large groups (i.e. in forests) containing other flora. If they are on their own like I said generally it is because they've been planted or because all the other trees around them have been removed to make way for farming. Farming is another big thing missing from M2TW landscapes.

[Space_Ed]

You can see what I mean if you look in the distance of the top right hand corner of the bottom pic. Theres loads of random stuff sticking out of the ground and it just doesn't look right to me.

Like I said I'd happily compile a file of inspiratory material for the landscapers to work from.

[Space_Ed]

Actually on one of those dessert photos it is definately cultivated land. But something like that would look much better.

[Horatius Flaccus]

Try using the 'Edit' button (on the bottom right corner of you post) instead of double (or even triple) posting.

And please wrap those pics in spoiler tags. Put the code between ["SPOIL"]["/SPOIL"] (without the ")

[antisocialmunky]

Isn't vegetation dictated by some sort of template? If so, you can make clusters of trees fairly easily.