About the situation on the EB forums as of late

[Krusader]

On behalf of the EB team.

Lately, the EB forums have deteriorated down to a level the EB team is not happy with. Spam, "in before the lock", insults, derailing threads with off-topic nonsense, with the Romaioktonoi and the silly Romans VS Hellenes one-liners are prime examples. No one, I repeat no-one within the EB team finds that funny at all. The last thing the EB team wants is the forums to devolve into a personal playground for a select few, as this makes newcomers hesitant to post on a forum that will not feel open. We want these forums to be about EB and a place to discuss history. That does not mean we want only educated academic discourse on our fora, far from it: we simply don't want to spend our time cleaning up SPAM, issuing warnings and closely monitoring our public fora, when we could be developing (not to mention bugfixing) EB.

Consider this a warning. If anyone continues with derailing threads, pointless spamming, trolling, posting offtopic Romaioktonoi/anti-Roman/anti-Greek nonsense, insults, trying to lock threads etc. that goes against ORG policy will have their access removed. You won't be able to post here again. No exceptions.

[satalexton]

I, Megas Satalextos Zairon Airetikos Basileus ton Basileon Nikesas Barbaron, would apologize for Romaioktonoi's share of the havoc that was made recently in a few of the threads. That includes me, especially me. For as SymBasileus, I am not only responcible for my conducts, but those of my followers too.

From hence forth, I pledge that the Romaioktonoi will express views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc. We shall not use spam or make irelevant backlashes upon remarks directed at us.

And I shall use this opportunity to clarify that we have no intention to "usurpe" the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind. Spamming was never our original intent, trolling was never our purpose. Though slanderous and intently defaming, we are not without fault for projecting such an illusion to some.

Regretfully,

Satalexton

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

*Sound Applause to Sata and Krusader*

That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum :clown:!

[Skullheadhq]

The last thing the EB team wants is the forums to devolve into a personal playground for a select few, as this makes newcomers hesitant to post on a forum that will not feel open.

Please explain this part. :inquisitive:
Do you mean we're xenophobe or something?


the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind.
There is a new tavern, y'know

[dragoon47]

Sorry, I also kind of fed the flame, hope to be more amiable in the future. Your mod has brought my attention back to RTW by the way, I haven't played it in quite some time as well.

[Krusader]

Please explain this part. :inquisitive:
Do you mean we're xenophobe or something?


Let me quote Macilrille and notice the bold part:

And I fear this thread is going to deteriorate and get locked unless we control ourselves, so let us please.

For that is in fact what this question is about. The number of locked threads the past month and a half, do they always rise in summer? Is this like the press that has nothing worthwhile to report in summer and thus goes into trivialities?

I am thinking we should discuss history and EB. Tactics, development, etc. Instead two out of three Roman threads gets locked in a week (and one even from a nice noob that asked for advice and has now disappeared- discouraged?). A thread on some troll in some other forum? Personal attacks and flaming in Hellene Warfare threads?

WTF? Does this happen every summer or?

I would like to know why, but I would also like it if we all took a deep breath and calmed down a bit. Perhaps some introspection and restraint is in order?

That's the main reason. Forums like the ORG are supposed to be open for all to partake in discussion. If people feel they have to be part of a certain group (in this case the anti-Roman League) on a forum it will most often than not discourage them from posting, as they don't know if it will be answered or ridiculed. Others again just plainly won't like the tone of some posts and wonder if Europa Barbarorum loathes the Romans, because a few members run around yelling "Roman barbarians murdering cultures" and whatnot.

Another thing is that we EB members have other hobbies or games we like too and that means we do visit other forums.
As a personal example, that should illustrate it nicely, I'm a Battletech nut, which people who know Battletech would have recognized by now. Ever since I was a kid, seeing a 100-ton mech brimmed with weapons would bring a smile to my face.
Anywho, I've frequented the official Battletech forums...I don't do so anymore. Its filled with utterly strange people who take over most threads and have their own feuds, factions, internal rules, ranks etc. and if you post there it is most often ignored or you won't get a good discussion going before its derailed. And said members have access to fanservice/catgirl avatars that no one has, and which "cheapens" the Battletech forums...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad anime/Lara Croft comic girls next to faction symbols. :wall:
The point? I didn't feel like I fit in at the Battletech forums and from talking to other fans I'm not the only one it seems.

Editted slightly.

[Skullheadhq]

Oh, didn't know that. We at the Romaioktonoi are not an exclusive, elite club. Everybody can join, and write his poems (nothing more hellenistic then poems ;), nevermind) and I'm sorry if some people feel like they are not part of it. As it isn't the purpose of the Romaioktonioi. Everyone that feels like they are not part of the Rhomaioktonoi, join us, it's great!



...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad women next to faction symbols.



O, would you do that for us? Oh that would be SO great! I would love to see that in the next preview :wiseguy:

[oudysseos]

....Whatever.

[Moros]

Oh, didn't know that. We at the Romaioktonoi are not an exclusive, elite club. Everybody can join, and write his poems (nothing more hellenistic then poems ;), nevermind) and I'm sorry if some people feel like they are not part of it. As it isn't the purpose of the Romaioktonioi. Everyone that feels like they are not part of the Rhomaioktonoi, join us, it's great!

While I could imagine something like this could be fun in one AAR. Remember the wastelands? That was one funny AAR. But if we'd take the jokes from that AAR and keep reusing them at every possible occasion. Well that would be the end of it. Currently it used as an excuse or an inspiration for derailing threads, or just spam. It's not just that it isn't funny anymore, it's rather annoying. Especially for those who could spend more time working on EB, instead of deleting spam.
Note of course it's not just the Romaioktonoi. But it is part of it. And we don't mind the occasional off topic thread, or the occasional thread that goes off topic. But the conversation has to make sense, and not be a random collection of one sentence posts. I remember we had a beer thread long, long ago. While it wasn't about EB, the conversation was interesting. Noone had a problem with it. Then again it was also one of the very few off topic threads.
We can also understand that you guys can't talk about EB 24/7. But you have the tavern social group and of course the other sub forums as well here. And not to forget that there's a pm system and profile pages. All accessable by you and the freinds you made here. Personally I've posted off topic posts as well, my contributions usually don't have several paragraphs either,... But we ain't expecting you guys to post academic papers only. No, just keep it friendly, let's try to keep on topic most of the time, and let us have a decent standard level of conversation. Let's stop the in before the lock, useless spam (that gets deleted anyway) and were all happy.

I just can't see why anyone wants to risk a temporary or indefinate ban from the forum, just for some plain sillyness?

[Phalanx300]

That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum :clown:!

Very tempting to post the Soviet Anthem right now, I gues I shouldn't. :sweatdrop:


And am I lucky I'm not part of those Spamanoktoi anymore. :clown: I don't remember quiting it once though. :inquisitive:

[DaciaJC]

I appreciate the EB team finally giving this situation the attention it deserves. I was a little more than severely annoyed at the spam in general.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

We, the Romaioktonoi leading class, have all accepted a Code of Honour to prevent these kind of things. Sorry if this affected the EB-fora to such an extent. We will now aim our energy on constructive only matters, and ignore anything that is pointed against us.

[-Praetor-]

In January this year I posted the following:


A final word: It just wrong that some of our most valuable members spend most of their times on the public forum moderating spam, trolling, flaming and off topic comments, instead of doing what they like: making EB stride forward. This incluides making new previews, coding new ideas and thinking of new ways to make EB unique and different from other mods. This current state of affairs has seriously slowed down the advance of our mod, and has demotivated me and others to participate in the public area.

Please, refrain to post messages that you know are considered expressions of flaming, trolling and spam.

It was in the Org forum rules thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112579) that, as far as I see, close to no one has taken the time to review.

Frankly, after seeing these posts in this very thread:


Can we have Lorica Segmentata in EBII?
:clown:


*Sound Applause to Sata and Krusader*
That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum :clown:!





...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad women next to faction symbols.

O, would you do that for us? Oh that would be SO great! I would love to see that in the next preview :wiseguy:


Very tempting to post the Soviet Anthem right now, I gues I shouldn't. :sweatdrop:

I question myself if the community takes Krusader's post seriously, or if it had any true effect. Nobody is saying that this is serious business or something like that, all we are saying is that this is not the behaviour we expect from our community, and definitively not the level of debate we were hoping to incentivate by making EB.

Grow up.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I don't understand nor shall I probably ever do. Why does this thread have to be derailed as well?

C'mon if you want to contribute to these forums but can't find anything to do on other than by derailing threads in particular or furthering the spew of random garbage in general: there is no problem with not positing. You can still read, can you not?

There were pure spam threads in EB forums, there are, and there will always be; and nobody has a problem with that per se. However from there to actively hijacking other threads to the point of turning it into a SPAM cesspit is another matter entirely and lately we simply have seen too much of the latter to stomach. These forums are not Youtube music videos, you are expected to show more restraint here.

Again: if you've got nothing worthwhile to contribute (and antagonizing other people doesn't qualify as worthwhile here) just don't post. Why not take the time to read some AARS, especially those that make up EB lore (Wasteland sadly lost in the midst of time during a forum crash; but The World According to the Koinon is still there, and so are various other gems made by Orb); surely that is much more enjoyable than posting for the heck of it?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

[satalexton]

Regent, heteiros, Prudence.

Remember what I said, we leave this thread be.

[Foot]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

There is no humorous or enjoyable level to this. We are pissed off. We won't allow you to get off by simply making out that it is all some kind of joke. It is not and that will not work. The quotes above were spam, and your flat out denial of this changes nothing. You are part of the problem and your word has about as much weight with us as any troll on any other forum. If you cannot exist here under these conditions then I suggest you find yourself a new home. These forums are for the discussion of Europa Barbarorum, not for the creation of your own clubs and groups.

Foot

[Skullheadhq]

I, Megas Satalextos Zairon Airetikos Basileus ton Basileon Nikesas Barbaron, would apologize for Romaioktonoi's share of the havoc that was made recently in a few of the threads. That includes me, especially me. For as SymBasileus, I am not only responcible for my conducts, but those of my followers too.

From hence forth, I pledge that the Romaioktonoi will express views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc. We shall not use spam or make irelevant backlashes upon remarks directed at us.

And I shall use this opportunity to clarify that we have no intention to "usurpe" the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind. Spamming was never our original intent, trolling was never our purpose. Though slanderous and intently defaming, we are not without fault for projecting such an illusion to some.

Regretfully,

Satalexton

Can the EB team agree to this?
We will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?

[abou]

We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.

[Skullheadhq]

:wall:
Didn't we said we wanted to stop spamming, and if you guys are OK with what we still wanted to do, AARs, artwork, screenshot competitions, we just asked for your APPROVAL of this. Can we have this, please?

We don't have some part in what the EB team decides, we just want to know what you think is OK and what is NOT

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

:wall:
Didn't we said we wanted to stop spamming, and if you guys are OK with what we still wanted to do, AARs, artwork, screenshot competitions, we just asked for your APPROVAL of this. Can we have this, please?
Leave it alone.

[Skullheadhq]

Leave it alone.

You're right. When I ask them if they're OK with it abou tells me to STFU.
Let's just don't give them anything to complain and then this will just go away, they can't take our social group away, can they?

[Foot]

I'm sorry you want to stop spamming? Then do so. If no one here likes it then why continue. We are not going to agree to a set of conditions with a non-group of people, who have just taken over our forums with their rubbish. You will agree to behave amicably on our forums, or you will not be on our forums. This forum is a space for EB, not a space for EB and Romaioktonoi. You want your own space, go do what the Tavern did and make one.

Foot

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.

[Skullheadhq]

First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.

Thank You.
We'll stop spamming :yes:

[Andres]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

Maybe some of the EB team members are annoyed to such a level that they can no longer be humorous about it :shrug:


Can the EB team agree to this?
If so we will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?

There's a lot of information in this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112579) and it should be clear that the appropriate course of action would be stopping it unconditionally.

Just my :2cents: of course.

:bow:

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I question myself if the community takes Krusader's post seriously, or if it had any true effect.

Nah, excuse-me but I have some contempt for authority, regardless of the source :clown:. If I was a bad boy outside the strict limits of the EB Tavern spamfest, then I humbly ask the EB Team for stern forgiveness.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well, I have no idea who would have said he stopped spamming only under any condition. Maybe that has escaped me.

What I read in this thread is that members of the Romaioktonoi said they are sorry that some things went out of course, that they have decided to leave this and even that they won't react to spamming from other sides anymore.

That said, not mentioning that it's not the Romaioktonoi alone and other "professional" spammers even boasting about how great they spam and how bad Romaioktonoi are in spamming.

I can't see how anybody wanted conditions. As I said, we'll stop it and concentrate on constructive and creative things.


First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.
Thank you.

[vartan]

It's quite an interesting dialogue, reading this page from here. All I can say personally is that when going to the EB forum section of the Guild (and I go here as often as I can to check on updated posts), I am fairly annoyed by having to read so carefully through the many thread titles only to find that a good portion lead to ridiculous time-wasting reads. I'm happy with all the knowledge I gain from using these forums (which are thankfully free to access and use), but it's just unfortunate that a quarter of the time, it's simply reading through material that ends up as a big landfill of words. Hope things get better with time.

Good luck all,
Vartan

[Aemilius Paulus]

We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.
I personally agree with this. Whether it is my authoritarianism or my innate wish for order in life, I wish the EB Team would exercise more authority, when it can find the time to do so. I am immensely relieved this thread came up and hopefully will put an end to this madness.

I have nothing against anti-Roman posts and absolutely nothing against the people of that group, such as Maion and Satalexton, but when it clutters up these forums is when I cringe, although not at the people, but at the idea of the group itself. Romani-hating is perfectly fine, just as long as it is confined to the Social Group. Such as the EB Tavern and our off-topic discussions that got us Taverners in trouble. Taverners, namely Meth and ACIN used to be the past Romaioktonoi of the forums, a great bane. Then we turned to Social Groups, and what a wonder! Until the recent but brief ACIN resurgence, the EB Tavern has contained its off-topic material in its own group, and we became the most active single place AFAIK on .Org, with now about 13-14k posts.

I believe the Romaioktonoi should take this as an example, and create their own rich but contained community inside their SG. And now, more than ever, with the newly implemented SG thread system (may Tosa's name be forever praised!) the possibility for a splendid and vibrant community inside a SG is better than ever. EB Forums are for EB, and anything that interferes with EB, such as Romaioktonoi off-topic veering and/or spam is counter-productive, and thus should be banished. No reason, however, why it cannot exists in a SG. From my EB Tavern experience, the Romaioktonoi SG should be a marvellous place, as nothing beats your own SG.


Can the EB team agree to this?
If so we will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?
I also disagree. Because the manner in which this anti-Roman material is mentioned is provocative, it is incensive, it will generate some sort of comment, and no matter what will be the nature of that comment, threads will derail. If I posted anti-Greek/Hellenic comments, you people would surely post something in defence, clarification, discussion, query, arguments, etc, etc. Same with your comments, which can provoke response.

I am an atheist, but if I mentioned some bits of it here, it would perhaps evoke responses from other people, or at least quiet dissension/anger/annoyance. Thus, I do not mention my atheism here, and you should not mention your Romaioktonoi, and someoen else should not mention FYROM. All three cause controversy. All three lead to thread lockage. Whether you post it in "rule-abiding manner" is irrelevant. The result is the same.

Just take your stuff to your group, and everyone will experience "great relief". Especially your group, just like the EB Taverners did.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I resent the attacks on the Tavern people. For the most part me and Meth and the rest have contributed to the EB and EB2 forums (I can easily bring up examples in a moments notice) and we have confined our fun to the Tavern social group which is what the Roman haters should do. To even have the nerve of asking to keep your Roman haters club going on in the EB forums after doing 99% of the spam in the past couple months and then attempting to cast most of the blame on us is incredibly ludicrous.

[Bucefalo]

I was also a bit annoyed to see how spam were increasing everywhere, and i only read sometimes the forum to find some info and read if there is any news. But as of late i had to search throught a mountain of non sense posts... at last the team has decided to act and i´m happy about it :beam:,
when you post always try to add something interesting to the discussion... don´t simply say some bad joke or whatever cross your mind.

Guys, think about this, the more time the EB team spend moderating, the less time they spend working on the mod. It´s your choice. But by spamming you are making all of us wait more for the release of the mod

[Macilrille]

1. We are adults, not children and we should act as such, nor are the EB team pedagogues; respect, restraint and general good behavior should be our watchwords. It should not even be necessary for them to moderate our discussions.

2. The Romaioktonoi started out as a reaction to the Vanilla RTW focus on Rome, as a sort of counterweight. There is nothing wrong in that (and I am a "Roman Fanboy" remember? But I am also an objective-ish historian). It is not the Romaioktonoi in General that is the problem, it is a few spamming members. There is a reason that I, a Danish belæiever in free speech has two of them on my ignore list. I was simply sick of all the spam. People who are just being a nuisance for the sake of being a nuisance, and who actively wrecks other peoples questions, requests for advice, etc., simply does not have a room in my life.
Maion fast recognised his mistake when I pointed out to him that things were getting out of proportion over a month ago (evident on my wall if you are in doubt). You, his sycopants and followers should do the same. What actually happened to him while all the spam and RL kept me away (and someone not on my ignore list please answer this ;-) )? It is not the Romaioktonoi that are the problem, it is but a few of them.


Anyway, guys...

EB rises over Vanilla and other mods in accuracy, authenticity and as many other areas as you can possibly imagine. It is an example to other mods. Should its forums not also be?

[Darius]

I actually all but gave up bothering to post anything even remotely pertaining to my Roman Campaign despite having several occasions where I had a rather strong desire to do so. The main reason of course being because I felt it would simply get bogged down by anti-Roman spam then simply locked. Hopefully things will improve soon, but I'm gonna give it some time before I make any new threads just to be sure the message gets across before hand.

[Blxz]

I have been away for a while and reading this rings a chord or two with me. Definately needed to be said. I like rome and am annoyed that it has been difficult to post anything about the topic.

However this quote:

--------
Quote:
Originally Posted by abou
We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.
--------

comes across as decidedly cold. It almost has the effect of turning me away from the forum in the same way that Foot (or was it MAA or someone else) mentioned about the battle mech thingy. If abou is a EB modder or someone in the forum admin or something I would like to (respectfully) remind you that the forums and EB itself is made popular by the people who use and follow it. Those people have no right to crap throughout the forum and degrade the enjoyment people get. But, to just brush everyone off is rude and uncalled for and promotes exactly the opposite of what I assume this forum stands for and what this entire thread was made for.

If that is the view of the EB staff to its fans and supporters then I am more than happy to leave and never look back, as much as it would disappoint me.

[Krusader]

I have been away for a while and reading this rings a chord or two with me. Definately needed to be said. I like rome and am annoyed that it has been difficult to post anything about the topic.

However this quote:

--------
Quote:
Originally Posted by abou
We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.
--------

comes across as decidedly cold. It almost has the effect of turning me away from the forum in the same way that Foot (or was it MAA or someone else) mentioned about the battle mech thingy. If abou is a EB modder or someone in the forum admin or something I would like to (respectfully) remind you that the forums and EB itself is made popular by the people who use and follow it. Those people have no right to crap throughout the forum and degrade the enjoyment people get. But, to just brush everyone off is rude and uncalled for and promotes exactly the opposite of what I assume this forum stands for and what this entire thread was made for.

If that is the view of the EB staff to its fans and supporters then I am more than happy to leave and never look back, as much as it would disappoint me.

With all due respect.
We have had these forums up for five years soon. We have had many, let's call it "troublemakers" up through the years. What you see is now is simply the EB team utterly fed up, after countless incidents and warnings. Most EB members don't even bother coming on to the public forums, because of all this crap that has happened up through the years. Hence why someone might come off as cold.
And also see that he was replying to someone who had taken part in turning the forums into a spam cesspit and now wanted us to agree to some terms so they should stop spamming...the entire EB team got, mildly put, pissed off as hell. These are OUR forums (within the ORG), not ours and Romaioktonoi's forums. They caused trouble and now we should agree to some terms so they will leave our forums free of spam?

And to clarify: We have nothing against Romaioktonoi and the intent behind the group. An anti-Roman group presence wouldn't bothered us if it was kept with reasonable limits...that is debating on why Rome is so bad, posting screenshots of Romans being routed, AARs of Pyrrhus turning Rome into a catapult testing range or coming with rebuttals/arguments to debates like "Roman legions crushed Macedonians because Maks were pussies!" . That we wouldn't have anything against (as long as they wouldn't have devolved into mudslinging and insults, per forum rules). But we had to take action because of the thread derailing, insults, silly oneliners and thread hijacks...and as posts in both EB fora have shown it was an action that non-Romaioktonoi EB fans welcomed.

And a last point to make it crystal clear. The warnings I posted are not by me as a person, but on behalf of the EB team.

[Phalanx300]

You guys are making to big a deal out of this... People not being serious all the time brings in some life in the brewery as the Dutch saying goes. :inquisitive:

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

You guys are making to big a deal out of this... People not being serious all the time brings in some life in the brewery as the Dutch saying goes. :inquisitive:
I very much agree with you. Whereas spam is not good, I would probably never get so angry if the problem was all about it. As I said previously, this is the internet and people will always be bold enough to post crap when they can, so there is nothing new under the sun as far as this is concerned. No reason to be all pissed off in the same way as a personal face to face insult or a real life fight, or someone will need to control your anger for you later.

EDIT - So far, the EB Team is the only one that seemingly reacts in such a peculiar manner. Many other teams have about the same problems and the same challenges yet they try to differentiate between the priorities of a game and the "priorities of reality", as I would call it. This also has been the only place where I have seen respected modding team members openly calling longtime fans as trolls, or using derogatory attitudes of the like, and I'm sure there was more of it before.

[Owen Glyndwr]

A few years back I used to be a big problem on the fora I frequented. It was disgraceful. Thankfully a few people notified me of this and I soon learned the error of my ways. My outlook on posting changed. I realized that it is not the number of posts that marks your importance, but the quality given within. I think for a forum to operate efficiently it's members must realize that fora are ultimately a center wherein opinions can be brought forward, discussed, and quite possibly exchanged in a mature, thoughtful manner.

A good way to ensure this is to simply reread what you wrote just before you post it. And as you're reading, ask yourself a few questions: "What is my objective in posting this? Is it to inform, to persuade or to dissuade? Will my post improve the thread as a whole relating to the topic originally opened? Or is there simply no point at all, I'm merely reacting to what someone else said." Also, "If I do post this, what will others think of me and the thread as a whole? Will said thread be closed as a result of this post? Will it prevent others from reading further as a result of this post?" And finally: "Will my objectives, whatever they may be, be suitably accomplished in this post? Is there any way they might be misinterpreted? Is there anything anyone would find outrageously objectionable in this post?"

If you go through all those questions, and don't find any shortfalls, go ahead and post. However if you do, then there isn't much point in putting the post down. Many times throughout the day I will start to post something, but stop part way through because I realize that the post is pointless or redundant. I'm not saying that users should go through and never post anything to the fora, I'm just saying maintaining a degree of restraint is healthy, and beneficial to all involved.

Overall it is important to remember that every time you post something to the fora, you are creating in an image that others on the fora will identify you as. Most people here do not know you personally. They have no personal experiences with you to draw from. They know only the things you have written in the past.

[Phalanx300]

A few years back I used to be a big problem on the fora I frequented. It was disgraceful. Thankfully a few people notified me of this and I soon learned the error of my ways. My outlook on posting changed. I realized that it is not the number of posts that marks your importance, but the quality given within. I think for a forum to operate efficiently it's members must realize that fora are ultimately a center wherein opinions can be brought forward, discussed, and quite possibly exchanged in a mature, thoughtful manner.

A good way to ensure this is to simply reread what you wrote just before you post it. And as you're reading, ask yourself a few questions: "What is my objective in posting this? Is it to inform, to persuade or to dissuade? Will my post improve the thread as a whole relating to the topic originally opened? Or is there simply no point at all, I'm merely reacting to what someone else said." Also, "If I do post this, what will others think of me and the thread as a whole? Will said thread be closed as a result of this post? Will it prevent others from reading further as a result of this post?" And finally: "Will my objectives, whatever they may be, be suitably accomplished in this post? Is there any way they might be misinterpreted? Is there anything anyone would find outrageously objectionable in this post?"

If you go through all those questions, and don't find any shortfalls, go ahead and post. However if you do, then there isn't much point in putting the post down. Many times throughout the day I will start to post something, but stop part way through because I realize that the post is pointless or redundant. I'm not saying that users should go through and never post anything to the fora, I'm just saying maintaining a degree of restraint is healthy, and beneficial to all involved.

Overall it is important to remember that every time you post something to the fora, you are creating in an image that others on the fora will identify you as. Most people here do not know you personally. They have no personal experiences with you to draw from. They know only the things you have written in the past.


You must have taken a long time on this post. :inquisitive:

And ofcourse people must be on topic and not spam where it is not needed but you can't expect people to be 100% serious.:juggle2:

[Megas Methuselah]

If you "roman haters" want to discuss non-topic conversations, go do that in a social group. You guys have no right to derail our threads in the EB Forums.

[strategos roma]

Personally, I agree that the spam situation has gone out of hand. I've seen other gaming forums completely dominated by spammers and I don't wish to see the EB forums go this way. And remember, the more time team members spend moderating our posts, the longer it will take to finish EB2. So pls be considerate and act sensibly. Thx.

[Aemilius Paulus]

You must have taken a long time on this post. :inquisitive:

Bah, WTH? Do people ever read the whole thread on these forums:

I personally agree with this. Whether it is my authoritarianism or my innate wish for order in life, I wish the EB Team would exercise more authority, when it can find the time to do so. I am immensely relieved this thread came up and hopefully will put an end to this madness.

I have nothing against anti-Roman posts and absolutely nothing against the people of that group, such as Maion and Satalexton, but when it clutters up these forums is when I cringe, although not at the people, but at the idea of the group itself. Romani-hating is perfectly fine, just as long as it is confined to the Social Group. Such as the EB Tavern and our off-topic discussions that got us Taverners in trouble. Taverners, namely Meth and ACIN used to be the past Romaioktonoi of the forums, a great bane. Then we turned to Social Groups, and what a wonder! Until the recent but brief ACIN resurgence, the EB Tavern has contained its off-topic material in its own group, and we became the most active single place AFAIK on .Org, with now about 13-14k posts.

I believe the Romaioktonoi should take this as an example, and create their own rich but contained community inside their SG. And now, more than ever, with the newly implemented SG thread system (may Tosa's name be forever praised!) the possibility for a splendid and vibrant community inside a SG is better than ever. EB Forums are for EB, and anything that interferes with EB, such as Romaioktonoi off-topic veering and/or spam is counter-productive, and thus should be banished. No reason, however, why it cannot exists in a SG. From my EB Tavern experience, the Romaioktonoi SG should be a marvellous place, as nothing beats your own SG.


I also disagree. Because the manner in which this anti-Roman material is mentioned is provocative, it is incensive, it will generate some sort of comment, and no matter what will be the nature of that comment, threads will derail. If I posted anti-Greek/Hellenic comments, you people would surely post something in defence, clarification, discussion, query, arguments, etc, etc. Same with your comments, which can provoke response.

I am an atheist, but if I mentioned some bits of it here, it would perhaps evoke responses from other people, or at least quiet dissension/anger/annoyance. Thus, I do not mention my atheism here, and you should not mention your Romaioktonoi, and someoen else should not mention FYROM. All three cause controversy. All three lead to thread lockage. Whether you post it in "rule-abiding manner" is irrelevant. The result is the same.

Just take your stuff to your group, and everyone will experience "great relief". Especially your group, just like the EB Taverners did.

[Blxz]

@ Krusader

Your comment

"And also see that he was replying to someone who had taken part in turning the forums into a spam cesspit and now wanted us to agree to some terms so they should stop spamming"

My mistake. It was a fairly broad sounding comment I quoted and replied to and I misunderstood to who it was directed. I withdraw my previous comments about the eb team. Honestly you guys must put up with a decent amount of crap, I've no need to comment anymore about this.

[pezhetairoi]

I left the Org a year ago after the closure of the second EB Tavern, because I felt that the EB Team had overstepped their boundaries and, perhaps, come off as being a little too tyrannical, but more than that (and this is by far the major underlying cause), because I had become disillusioned with the Tavern as a place for harmless kidding around.

Since that day, I have only browsed every now and then but never ever posted again, despite having been with EB almost since the beginning (and still loving it now). Our rationale in those days for the Tavern was that it provided a single place for clowning around, with the (perhaps over-noble) objective of therefore minimising the spam on the forum proper by providing an outlet.

There were those who did agree with me, and thus even when we posted playfully in other threads, we made sure we also had something serious to say at the same time. But none of that compares to some of the drivel I've been reading on the forums lately--it's absolutely disgraceful how the forums have degenerated into such a case.

I am standing by the EB team on this one, while I felt perhaps it was a little too heavy-handed in the past to have closed our Tavern, it was action in the same vein as this--and there is such a need for it now. 'This is how liberty dies', you say? I say this: I value ORDER more than FREEDOM. It's not as if the EB team is some dictatorial entity. They have their limits too and their need for play, and they have had years to prove that they are not about to start banning people just because they don't like them personally and/or because they have the power to do so. And after all, they are far, far more entitled to decide how this forum runs than any of us EB players, because without them creating the game that is EB, this forum wouldn't even exist.

And as someone above me said, the longer they take to patrol these forums, the less work on EBII they can do. So the less trouble they are given, the faster the next great version will come out. So we need now to nip the problems in the bud rather than let them grow.

So as far as I'm concerned, good call, EB team. It's time to stamp down hard on those who start frivolous threads. And for the rest of us, if you haven't got anything good, serious or constructive to say, don't say it.

[Skullheadhq]

Please quote the post in which I set conditions for the stop of spam kthx

[satalexton]

Dear all,

The Romaioktonoi have undergone reforms, where they all shall follow a 'code of honour'. It is not anything fancy, but simply a basic set of dicipline of sorts, designed to be stricter than the standards that the EB team would expect the original member would be. Quite frankly, they are sticking to it quite well, noticing their lack of activity in Krusader's thread.

I am aware that me and the Romaioktonoi are a rather loud contribuiter to the spam that attracted the ire of the EB team, due to our unique stance and advocation that "Romans are the True Barbarians of the classical period". There are occasions that I, myself, are quite vocal at this opinion, obstencibly in threads about Romans. I am regretful of that, and as leader of Romaioktonoi, I shall demostrate a stricter dicipline than the average member.

Please, let it be now. This has dissolved into a Romaioktonoi scapegoating competition, and frankly we do not enjoy it. We are regretful of our past acts and intend to turn a new leaf. We tolerate the recent baised slander and defamation because we wish to restore peace, as defending and retorting would only result in flame wars and further strife. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and irony going on, and it's not doing the whole situation any good. I will not point fingers, as all parties are guilty for it. That includes some of the Romaioktonoi.

Romaioktonoi, I know I've downright bent the very laws I've set by speaking out in this thread. I urge all of you to NOT back me up with anything, please stay tolerant and understand that this is an ONLY exception. Your vocal support will only cause more flames and strife. Please, especially some of you, please. Not even posts that begin with "I speak on behalf of myself, not our group".

I sincerely hope this shall be my last opinion over this whole matter.

Hoping for peace,

Satalexton.

[Phalanx300]

Bah, WTH? Do people ever read the whole thread on these forums:

I said that because he had about 20 rules which you need to use after you made a post to make it fit and seeing the size of it, which is insane. :inquisitive:

And I'm not a part of the Romainoktoi as far as I'm aware, I've only speaken against the Romans some times in the past but I actually play as them a couple of times so it was just to play around. :juggle2:

[Tellos Athenaios]

Please quote the post in which I set conditions for the stop of spam kthx

You didn't set terms & conditions explicitly. However your post entails a Quid-Pro-Quo which itself requires some kind of set of conditions.

First, the actual proposal is neither here nor there (as anybody can read in post #1). Few seem to have actually taken the time to digest what we wrote; first try to grasp what we say (that goes not just for you). In this case, it spectacularly fails to grasp post #1, talk about collective cognetive distortion (the kind where "not 100% compatible with Windows" is magically transformed into "100% guaranteed compatibility with Windows" and "exact same location as your RTW install" turns out to be interpreted as "any place you <minced oath> well like"). As an aside, a Quid Pro Quo *is* something which by definition entails "terms & conditions". A software license like the GPL can be considered Quid Pro Quo: you get to use the subject of the license any way you want, but once you distribute it you must make the source of your version available under the [same/compatible] license.

Now to answer your question. I have already explained about the Quid Pro Quo involved in your post by asking us to agree with another post. This translates directly into: You want an endorsement of the EB Team of whatever pet projects you (and fellows) are going to launch; be it screenshot competitions or AARs or poetry in exchange for a promise to stop spamming. As made very clear by the tone of post #1; bargains are more than out of the question whatever way you put it irrespective of what you bargain for (be it endorsements of future threads, pleas on behalf of somebody who is banned from the fora, or anything). If not then the replies to your post should have.

It might have sounded reasonable at first to ask for "official" endorsement but again it fails to take into account post #1 entirely. There is a very clear message you are sending us between the lines (perhaps not intentionally) and it reads to us "Why bother?".

[Rahwana]

Maybe I just didn't undersand this, but I guess this Romanikantoni banning is happened when I start a thread, asking who are they?

EDIT : I jst need a simple explanation, wat's their motivation behind this... showering a forum with useless spams seems to "naive" for me, if it was done just for fun

[chenkai11]

Maybe I just didn't undersand this, but I guess this Romanikantoni banning is happened when I start a thread, asking who are they?

EDIT : I jst need a simple explanation, wat's their motivation behind this... showering a forum with useless spams seems to "naive" for me, if it was done just for fun

No, it's not like that.

No one against no one. EB team just want to remind every beloved EB fans to behave (but with a slight p*ssed tone - I guessed).

Behave doesn't mean to be too serious, some slightly off topic joke is ok, or some passionate expression towards his faction is also ok. The not OK were mentioned already.

[Macilrille]

And immaculate timing, I have just been told to keep in isolation for I have influenza H1N1, so I have to spend time on something ;-)

[Cute Wolf]

And I am soory if I was offend anyone, especially AP :bow:

[Aemilius Paulus]

And I am soory if I was offend anyone, especially AP :bow:
Whaaa, why? You were not a spammer and even Satalexton did not make me ill-disposed to him. Whenever some Roman-hater woudl post a spam message, it made me loathe Romaioktonoi more, but not the person psotign the spam itself.

[thecellarlife]

The fact that the EB team felt they had to post this shows how stupid some of you people are.

1) It's a game.
2) This mod was meant to represent history as accurately as possible, and also educate those who do not know all the details of it.
3) To have fun with history, and change it in our own personal ways.

Now as far as that goes, it's great that people find connection with history, but when you start fighting each other because of a game, it just gets stupid.

It just shows how little we have moved forward in 2000 years.


If you want to fight, someone should create a specific forum where everyone can have their blog wars against each other and keep it out of whats important: The improvement of Europa Barbarorum.

[Ludens]

The problem is not people fighting over the game, or history, but that certain patrons treated the EB forums as their own personal playground.

[Owen Glyndwr]

And immaculate timing, I have just been told to keep in isolation for I have influenza H1N1, so I have to spend time on something ;-)

Ooo yikes. I hope you get better soon!

[Ferromancer]

I personally agree with this. Whether it is my authoritarianism or my innate wish for order in life, I wish the EB Team would exercise more authority, when it can find the time to do so. I am immensely relieved this thread came up and hopefully will put an end to this madness.

The local authoritarian and the local libertarian have something to agree about. The EB team owns this forum. We are their humble guests. They set the rules, and we can choose to follow them or not. Of course, whoever does not follow the rules must accept the consequences of their behavior.

Show no hesitation in banning whoever annoys you, and feel no guilt. Run it exactly as you see fit.

[Macilrille]

EB rises over Vanilla and other mods in accuracy, authenticity and as many other areas as you can possibly imagine. It is an example to other mods. Should its forums not also be?

As for that damn flu I can tell you that it was the illest I have ever been, getting close to being unable to care for myself anymore. I got declared non-contagious Thursday, which was in the nick of time, for I had to attend a Historical Conference at Cambridge Saturday (travelling Friday)...
I was knackered and had not recovered, so instead I got a cold ;-) that is passing now, but if and when you get the h1n1, get rest before you set out to conquer the world. It is also not equally bad on everybody- I was hard hit, so worry not too much.

Thanks for the well-wishes.

[Blxz]

I must have been one of the lucky ones. I got swine flu (H1N1) about 2 weeks ago. Reasonably sick, but no where near enough to what it sounds like you got. I have had regualr flu worse. Actually, I got a secondary chest infection and thats what really knocked me about. I guess good strong Australian breeding kept me going. Healthy bunch we are over here.

[Ludens]

Let's not go off-topic in a thread about off-topic posts, shall we?

[Olaf The Great]

Trying not to be off-topic here but after having read the posts made in this thread I get the feeling that "Romaioktonoi" are some sort of billy-club toting fanatical miltia that go "Oy Oy Oy Oy" as they march through threads which quickly get locked ...Probably exaggerated but its an odd feeling.

I have no idea what's happened to the forum since the tavern was closed or who the heck the Romaioktonoi are but there appears to be a massive amount of unrest these days. I loved the old tavern, even if it "seep" spam to other threads it didn't flood.

Why is it everything I come back to a forum it's been bought by some money hungry corporation or, well, billyclubbing spammers?

It's also likely I'm completely insane and I don't know what I'm saying and will regret it next time I read this It's 2 am and I've been unable to sleep for two days.

[Tarkus]

Let's not go off-topic in a thread about off-topic posts, shall we?

Well said, Ludens...some people just don't get it...

My thanks to the EB Team for taking this stand. As somebody with a strong interest in this period of history but with very little background, I see this forum as a place to learn from those who have put an enormous amount of time and effort into making EB such a great historical simulation. But such discussions seem so often to get suffocated by spam. Enough already!

I look forward to a leaner and meaner forum.

[Subotan]

Heh, I haven't even been here as of late, so I am totally blame free :beatnik2:
However, all this anti-Roman spam looks like it was never funny in the first place, so it's probably for the best if it's banished to the abyss. Protip: If you're going to spam, do it well.
And I totally agree with ACIN's statement that the Taverners are scapegoated. We have made plenty of sensible contributions to the past, generally keep our mischief to ourselves and if we do spam in the EB forums, it is only when a thread as been derailed to past the point of no return (Here's looking at you Roman haters) that we swoop in like vultures to devour the carcass. However, 99% of the time, we are pretty sensible.

[keiskander]

Im quite new to the forum and have not felt any effect of the matter in hand also i hope i wont have to either. But everyone should try respect eachother dispite what faction you play, like or write an AAR about. Instead we should focus on sharing our great AAR stories and experiences of the mod among the EB fans aswell as helping out new ones.

Sincerely Keiskander

[DaciaJC]

We have made plenty of sensible contributions to the past, generally keep our mischief to ourselves and if we do spam in the EB forums, it is only when a thread as been derailed to past the point of no return (Here's looking at you Roman haters) that we swoop in like vultures to devour the carcass.

Spam is spam is spam. No excuses in my opinion.

[Subotan]

Spam is spam is spam. No excuses in my opinion.

I was merely commenting that the anti-Roman group stopped being funny after the first repost. Maybe it came across that I was encouraging it, but I didn't mean that.

[Ludens]

And I totally agree with ACIN's statement that the Taverners are scapegoated. We have made plenty of sensible contributions to the past, generally keep our mischief to ourselves and if we do spam in the EB forums, it is only when a thread as been derailed to past the point of no return (Here's looking at you Roman haters) that we swoop in like vultures to devour the carcass. However, 99% of the time, we are pretty sensible.

Whether or not someone else started it, spam is still spam.

[Macilrille]

Hear- hear, two wrongs does not a right make.

The argument that, "he started..." is one you expect to hear in kindergarten.

I repeat, two wrongs does not a right make.

Speaking of such, is it not drawing near the time this thread gets a padlock? We have started to go in circles...

[Ludens]

Speaking of such, is it not drawing near the time this thread gets a padlock? We have started to go in circles...

Good idea. I left it open as a place for discussion on the moderation of the forum, but it appears to be going nowhere.

Thread closed.

If you disagree with this decision, or you do wish to discuss moderation, PM me.