Help with Skirmishers

[Blxz]

I have been reading people throughout this forum (most recently in one thread about Syracusae hoplites) talking about how you can decimate an enemy unit with up to 50% casualties by using javelin throwing skirmishers. I find them to be the single worst unit type in the entire game regardless of faction. I have found some use for Heavy Hellenic hoplites as a psuedo-roman type infantry. But I have never been able to get above 5 or so kills even on a flank or rear attack with javelins, even on easy difficulty battles.

Clearly I am doing something wrong. If someone could give me a detailed explanation on the ways to use them and the best situations and any other pointers that come to mind, then that would be great. But at 2 or 3 shots per man and with no kill potential I just cannot see them as useful ATM.

[Aemilius Paulus]

For one, the closer the skirmishers, the better. There is a minimum distance to be kept, but in general, the javelins should not make an arc, but rather be fired point-blank. Employed in this manner, they usually inflict from 2/5 to about 1/2 losses on a standard, full, Hoplitai unit, in the first volley. Subsequent volleys are less lethal due to the lower concentration of the enemy.

[Bumblebee]

Typically I use them as a harassment or flanker unit. To harass the enemy advance/line while I position my forces for decisive defences/thrusts, or to run them around behind a unit that's already engaged and inflict some serious damage with their javelins. Some Skirmisher units can hold their own aright in close-quarters, but I wouldn't rely on them to "Hold the Line" as it were.

If you micromanage them, you can produce some amazing results with Skirmishers. But they are just Skirmishers, which by definition engage in minor little scuffs.

[Geticus]

Be sure to get whatever upgrades you can, via field of games, weaponsmith etc. because infantry javelineers start out weak but benefit greatly from upgrades. Station them on your flank, preferably your left so that they will encircle the opponents unshielded right, be sure to turn of skirmish mode if you want steady javelin showers, otherwise they are likely to quit attacking and start evasive maneuvers if anyone is too close. Run them to the flank/rear of the enemy and if they don't autofire when in range direct them to attack. If you have two skirmisher cohorts focus their volleys at the same time it is more likely to cause a route. Rinse repeat.

The key is toggling skirmish mode, generally I prefer it to be off.

[satalexton]

cheap numerous fodder to soak up missle fire, skirmish before the line clashes, bolster numbers in line sections and flanking screens. Their numbers and cheap lives are their greatest strength. I find them essential in guarding strategic settlements (to die in place of the real soldiers), and forming early armies (the swarm).

They are also handy in lowering unrest in problematic/recently 'liberated' settlements. Why let these roudy ungrateful lower-class filth riot and protest in the streets, when u can simply send them to their deaths in the hands of the enemy?

[Vasiliyi]

I for one think they are a bit overpowered. If properly used, skirmish infantry can stop a full charge from the enemy, or even make the enemy rout before they touch your line. If assualting a wooden walled settlement, set your skirmisher or any javelined infantry a few feet behind the wall and let them throw their javelins over. If they are properly concentrated, they can easily decimate a unit without taking a single causualty.

Now, maybe akonkistai isn't all that great, but early on in the game, they have their uses, including police work, like Megas Satalextos said.

Also, if your playing as the Romans, (I know that they aren't exactly skirmishers) but their Pila is extremely deadly. A hastati with a pricepe unit behind it can easily rout any charging unit with their Pila.

[DaciaJC]

I have been reading people throughout this forum (most recently in one thread about Syracusae hoplites) talking about how you can decimate an enemy unit with up to 50% casualties by using javelin throwing skirmishers. I find them to be the single worst unit type in the entire game regardless of faction. I have found some use for Heavy Hellenic hoplites as a psuedo-roman type infantry. But I have never been able to get above 5 or so kills even on a flank or rear attack with javelins, even on easy difficulty battles.

Clearly I am doing something wrong. If someone could give me a detailed explanation on the ways to use them and the best situations and any other pointers that come to mind, then that would be great. But at 2 or 3 shots per man and with no kill potential I just cannot see them as useful ATM.

I'd like to ask, What unit size are you using?

[Blxz]

I'd like to ask, What unit size are you using?

Large I think. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I think maybe 80-120 soldiers in a standard melee unit. So basically I have been using skirmishers for a whopping 3-7% damage which is shit.

Some good advice here. I will have to give it a shot in custom battle and see how it goes. Thanks all.

[TKaz84]

If you are fighting a unit like Gaesatae (sp?) with high defence but low armor value, a few well-placed javelin volleys can put a serious dent in their numbers, which is important because in an even fight they will destroy all but the heaviest units.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

I can't really think of where skirmishers would easily half a unit, but like Vasiliyi said if you're assaulting a settlement with wooden palisade, letting your skirmishers and javelin infantry fire all their missiles from just behind the wall can result in around 10-20% of the enemy's force being killed without you taking a single casualty, providing the enemy is stupid enough to keep running units across the other side of the wall, which they usually are. Sometimes they fire one volley of missiles back, but that's only 3 or 4 casualties for you, no biggie.

[DaciaJC]

Elevation helps a great deal as well, as with all missile units.

[antisocialmunky]

In higher level online play, people use skirms to pad their numbers or screen for heavy cavalry. JinandJuice and Paul are rather good and annoying at this with their skirmisher/crap levy following directly behind their cavalry to give them a place to retreat back to.

You should try and run them past the enemy's right flank(your left side) so you can hit them in their sword side(no 2x shield bonus vs missiles) :-p.

Another good tactic vs barbarians(who for the most part suck with missiles) is to keep a giant stack of them behind your main line to rain missiles over the front line and then use them to help your units resist scary naked units or you can use them to flank and surround the big scary ball of men that people onlien and the AI tend to send at you.

[godsakes]

i used to hate skirmishers and felt line infantry with javlins made them redundant but over time i've warmed up to them for the following uses

1. human shield
the more expensive (better) my line troops the less willing i am to take losses so i use skirmishers on the very front as battle fodder (well javlin fodder to be exact and it's more important the lower the shield bonus your line troops have) after the enemy has unloaded their 1st round of javlins and charges your skirmishers will run behind your lines and your good line troops can take the charge. you can then either leave them behind your lines so they can skirmish head on or send them around the flanks to throw their missles at an exposed enemy (javlins are a very cheap and fast way to take down high end troops)

2. pinning/distracting enemy
sometimes (normally when i'm outnumbered) it's best to try to split up an enemy army - skirmishers being a large, fast (and disposable) unit is good for keeping the part of the enemy army engaged while you concentrate on the rest

[Blxz]

Have finally found some small use for them. Usually I consider them to be of no use except for cheap garrison so they are only in my starting armies. This means there is never more than 2 units in an army. Lately I have tried having up to 5 in my army so i can test peoples tactics. They actually work quite well when I focus fire. Can be useful for routing squads. They still require a degree of micro-management (I am guilty of using a mega ball of 10 cavalry units to just swarm each enemy in turn when I get bored of loads of repeated battles) so I only use them when I give a damn enough to fight each battle at less than full speed.