strong alliances

[m046720]

In the FAQs it says in order to maintain a strong alliance, you have to give gifts. But it won't let you give strictly a gift. You have to ask them for something. What is the best way to give a gift, and build a better alliance? Also, if you are playing VH/M does the VH prevent strong alliances?

[Apraxiteles]

There's an option at the bottom of the diplomacy window for "offer as gift", without asking anything in return. Not that the AI will always accept the offer, but they usually do, espescially if it's cash.

[m046720]

There's an option at the bottom of the diplomacy window for "offer as gift", without asking anything in return. Not that the AI will always accept the offer, but they usually do, espescially if it's cash.

And on a VH campaign, does this effect having potentially strong alliances?

[Apázlinemjó]

And on a VH campaign, does this effect having potentially strong alliances?

Nope, if you really want stronger alliances play on medium Campaign Difficulty.

[Macilrille]

They always end up betraying you anyway. The Artificial inanity is berserk and attacks you with all factions that you have a land border with sooner or later. It is but a question of time...

[DaciaJC]

And on a VH campaign, does this effect having potentially strong alliances?

No alliance is strong in a VH campaign. Though you can try to delay the inevitable by offering seasonal gifts to the tune of 500 mnai or so (someone specifically mentioned that amount; I forgot who).

[Whatever Scortamareva]

You want to set up a regular tribute from you to the Faction you're allied with. Try something small 200mnai a turn for 20turns or something else you can easily keep up. The AI will be more hesitant in attacking you since you're giving them money.

[Bumblebee]

I've been able to keep the peace with Eiperos to the north as Koinon Hellenon (H/H campaign) for over 30 years since allying myself with them by giving them about 500 minai every turn. Course there'll also busy expanding their domain to the north as well, but their settlements along my border would make easy conquest were I not tied up in Anatolia...

Really if you want to get on someone's good side and stay there, I've found that every turn it's vital that you give them some scratch or to help fight alongside them in battle, even if it's just token support.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Also, never let your own cities that are close to their empire become thinly-garrisoned. I noticed in three campaigns that the moment my ally turns on me happened exactly after I let one of the border cities almost defenceless. It seems the AI evaluates the success probability of a venture, with various factors stacked against each other, and when it decides the military venture is worth more than the alliance & other factors, it goes on with the venture.

To test this, I loaded one of my savegames a turn before they attacked me (my Romani campaign, Saba as the long-time allies, and almost-empty Alexandria as their target city), but this time heavily garrisoning the previously almost-empty border city. I was correct; they did to attack me. In my current campaign as Eperios, I spotted three Pontic (who are my allies) stacks moving for two turns in a row against my Byzantion, which had only one levy unit as a garrison. So I moved an adjacent army into the city, and the next turn, the stacks of Pontic soldiers turned back and dispersed :juggle2:.

EDIT: BTW, in all three campaigns I have given a gift of 500 mnai per turn - and they still attacked me (M difficulty for the first two, and VH for the current Eperios campaign).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Remember that the game is hardcoded to have you fight a war at all times. So a good way to keep a strong ally is to make sure you are at war with two or three other factions that border you. If you get low on enemies, the game will force an ally to turn on you.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It seems like the AI is actually more inclined to break an Alliance if it has a way to attack you. In my 1.0 Macedonian campaign I had an Alliance with the Getai for 100 years or so, with no buffer states. Partly the succes was, I think, regular gifts of map info so the AI could see I was huge and a river border with forts at all the crossings. It was impossible for the AI to get into my provinces, apart from about 3 three squares the other side of a river.

I think that was key. How long it would have taken for the AI to break the Alliance I don't know, the game became unplayable around 165 BC.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

In the FAQs it says in order to maintain a strong alliance, you have to give gifts. But it won't let you give strictly a gift. You have to ask them for something. What is the best way to give a gift, and build a better alliance? Also, if you are playing VH/M does the VH prevent strong alliances?

Sorry I forgot to mention, If you're having trouble with the AI not accepting gifts, or getting the old 'we have nothing to give in return' card, you'll need to mess around with the force diplomacy mod.

If you want to give the AI a tribute per turn, you'll want to set out the offer (eg 400mnai a turn, 50 turns for example), then ask for a single payment of something like 50mnai. Then force diplomacy (I'm assuming you've got the mod) and they should accept every time.

This is the same way I made buffer states with my protectorates even though they wouldn't normally accept a free settlement If I offered one to them.

[Cute Wolf]

To made strong alliances that almost "theoritically never" betray you is beat them up, and FD a Protectorate Status. And if they got a large stack of army (hopefully lead by FM), just teleport them anywhere when they wondering near your nice cities.

It looks like M2TW repairs that pretty well, even if they had land border, as long as you still have enough girls to offer.... (I speak about Marriage Alliance)

[Whatever Scortamareva]

Another tip is to try not to make them a diplomatic offer that they can refuse. It might sound a bit strange, but the number of times my allies, even my protectorate once, decided to cancel the alliance just because I offered map information for map information or something like that. I think they leap at any chance to break the peace with you.

Just avoid trivial diplomacy with your allies.

[Cute Wolf]

Another tip is to try not to make them a diplomatic offer that they can refuse. It might sound a bit strange, but the number of times my allies, even my protectorate once, decided to cancel the alliance just because I offered map information for map information or something like that. I think they leap at any chance to break the peace with you.

Just avoid trivial diplomacy with your allies.

Giving them a city without FD (that mostly be refused) is just like throwing the bait. They'll try to invade your city by themself instead :laugh: but refuse on map info gift? :inquisitive: It looks like they allways acept it

[Whatever Scortamareva]

Nah, sometimes they don't like to accept a map information exchange, I still haven't found why, but got tactless and discourteous on a lot of my diplomats because I tried it :( That stuff's as valuable as nutmeg.

[Azathoth]

I'm 50 years into a Hayasdan campaign, and the Sarmatians Zerged the Caucasus in 10 years, leaving just me and the Georgians (who were conquered by the Sarmations around 250? 240? Thereabouts). So its 220, and they've never even entered Armenia, let alone attacked me. They don't even have large troop concentrations in the area.

https://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr309/desertSypglass/eeee.jpg

A slightly modified older picture shows their limits. And yes, I'm allied with them. I did it after they crushed Georgia (even though Georgia was my buddy and when the Sarmatians first appeared south of the Caucasus they sent a 3-unit stack to join my army in waiting near what I expected to be the invasion route), and I haven't bribed them or anything. I guess the Sarmatians are just cool like that. So my advice on alliances is to do it with cool factions (this varies based on who you're playing).

[Whatever Scortamareva]

I guess the Sarmatians are just cool like that.

Sarmatians be chillin. Aint no beef with Sarmatians.

It's surprising they haven't attacked yet, you sure they aren't busy elsewhere with Saka or the Getai? It's pretty usual to see them boom like that from my experience, maybs they're just in an economic slowdown or recession

Also, I've never played a Hai campaign so not sure what you mean by Georgia, unless you're talking about ancient equivalent of modern georgia, but still which faction is that?

[Azathoth]

No, the Saka and Sarmatians assumed those borders (in the west) decades ago and haven't budged from them. The Saka have in fact been getting absolutely trashed by the Baktrians. The Seleukids actually never lost their original easternmost province, Dayuan. Can you believe it? That's how pathetic the Saka are here.

I guess the lesson is if a faction generally isn't aggressive in your game then there's a good chance they won't attack if you ally with them.

[Apraxiteles]

For some reason the Saka refuse to attack the Seleukids. I can't figure it out, but if they're at war with both the Seleukids and Baktria(which they are at the beginning), then they will almost always prefer attacking Baktria. I've looked at the starting diplomacy, and their stances are the same. I think it must have something to do with the AI and the starting alliances, much like Hayasdan's persistant invasions of the Sauromatae.

[mountaingoat]

i have had an alliance for about 20+ years with Epirus when playing as KH, on H/M

war only started when rome attacked ( rome and epirus ended up as allies)

[V.T. Marvin]

One crucial thing, IMO, is to keep your ally occupied by a war with somebody else. :yes:

In my Roman campaign, I have owned Emporion and Arse, the rest of Iberian penninsula was taken by the Lusitani (my allies) except Gader, which was still owned by the Carthaginians (common enemy of mine and the Lusotanna). I purposefully evaded attacking Gader just to keep the Luso occupied. And yes, they kept their alliance for more than 50 years (200 turns!!!) of our common border until they finally conquered Gader. The next turn, they betrayed me...

In the same campaign Arverni are still loyal allies of mine for more than 100 years (400 turns) of long shared border, because they are still unable to subdue the Aedui (who are reduced to one city, but putting up a heroic resistance).

The same situation is in Dalmatia, where I own Dalminion and Segestica without war with either Getai (allies) or Epeiros (neutral) for almost 100 years as the two are locked in mutual struggle among themselves...

[DaciaJC]

One crucial thing, IMO, is to keep your ally occupied by a war with somebody else. :yes:

In my Roman campaign, I have owned Emporion and Arse, the rest of Iberian penninsula was taken by the Lusitani (my allies) except Gader, which was still owned by the Carthaginians (common enemy of mine and the Lusotanna). I purposefully evaded attacking Gader just to keep the Luso occupied. And yes, they kept their alliance for more than 50 years (200 turns!!!) of our common border until they finally conquered Gader. The next turn, they betrayed me...


You exactly described my Romani campaign there.