Koinon Hellenon difficulties.

[Loghova]

Difficulties might be a bit of an understatement...I suck.

This is my first time playing EB, though I am a veteran R:TW player. I suppose everyone has these difficulties moving from the easy R:TW campaign to EB, but I seem stuck in a rut. I keep starting again only to repeat the same mistakes. What am I doing wrong?

I start by using my 3000g's to build a few more units to counter the inevitable Makedonian attack - some archers in Sparta and Levy hoplites in Athens. Crete falls easily with few loses, a garrison is left, and the army is moved to Athens. My diplomat makes peace with Seleukeia, then establishes some more trade routes. Now my finances are well into the red.

If I sit and wait, hoping something with turn around, Athens is constantly besieged. If I win one seige, another roughly equal stack just shows up the next turn to besiege the city again. The worst is when they just sit without attacking so I have to rally out of the city to fight them. I keep winning, but they keep coming to slowly whittle away my army. The worst part is that I dont foresee myself having the funds to replenish my forces any time soon.

If I rally out with the intention of bringing the fight to the Makedonians, I get jumped by a full stack. No matter how well I command my forces, I cannot seem to win.

They will not accept a cease fire.

Any advice or helpful pointers to get me going (or at least into the black financially) before I give up to go play a different faction?

[Ludens]

You are going to be in the red for the best part of a decade, so it's important to prioritize. I would abandon Crete and focus all on destroying the Macedonians. The most urgent threats are Antigonus' army and the garrison of Corinth. Chalkis is a annoyance as it will churn out levy hoplites, but only a secondary objective. Demetrias and Pella are currently out of your reach, although with luck the Epirotes will threaten them, thus making them unable to send reinforcements. My choices for turn-1 recruitment are a second spy (for keeping an eye the Macedonians) and a unit of Cretan mercenaries. An alternative would be mercenary cavalry: as you don't have good pursuit troops a larger part of the Macedonian armies will survive to fight another day.

If you conserve movement points, you can position Areus and his army (plus any reinforcements from Sparta) on the tile next to Antigonus on the first turn. Then you can attack with the Athenians, thus driving the Macedonians back on turn one. Antigonus generally withdraws to Chalkis. The next target should be Corinth, but the garrison may not make that a viable. Instead, I would make use of the opportunity to corner and finish Antigonus in Chalkis. At some point, the Macedonians are going to withdraw part of the garrison of Corinth, giving you the opportunity to destroy them piecemeal. Once you control both Corinth and Chalkis it's smooth sailing. March north and take Demetrias and Pella.

Sitting back and waiting for the Macedonians to exhaust themselves is unlikely to work. The A.I. gets financial aid (especially in the first few turns) and does not suffer from population exhaustion. Epiros is at war with Macedon and should help you out, but rarely does. Fortunately, the A.I. is poor at concentrating troops or estimating how many units are needed. If you have good reconnaissance (spies) you can generally take them piecemeal. Still, it's important to be aggressive and take the initiative.

Economically you will have to be in the red for a couple of years. Since you are unlikely to use your fleet beyond turn one, you may as well disband them. The upkeep of all units is increased in EB to one-fourth of the recruitment cost, and fleets are notoriously expensive. You may also want to disband the garrison of Rhodos, although keep in mind that the governor of Rhodos will likely die in the next few turns so you need a unit apart from his bodyguard. When you are finally in the black again, invest in mines in Athens and (if you have it) Pella. It may also be worth to capture the provinces north and east of Pella (Byzantion, Tylis and Serdike?) as these can provide mines as well Thracian and Celtic regional units, and Phyrrus will seize them if you won't. After your mines are up and running, you will be swimming in cash, especially if you kept your army small. Therefor, invest first in mines, then sea trade, then roads, then markets. Don't forget to upgrade your barracks occasionally as well. Also don't try to build everything in every city, but specialize.

Unfortunately the A.I. is programmed to harass you. They will target you preferentially, while factions that are at war with you will be spared. Hence the Epirote armies in Macedonia will generally be withdrawn in a couple of turns. Phyrros will lurk at the Macedonian-Epirote border until you take Pella: then he will attack. Therefore, as soon as your finances are in the black again, I suggest you offer him 200 mnai per turn tribute. Try if you can get an alliance while you are at it. In fact, I send 200 mnai per turn to every faction that borders me, or that I want to have good relations with. This really improves diplomacy in my opinion, although you still get the occasionally sneak attack from factions that should really know better.

Another KH annoyance is that many cities on the map either have a scripted alliance with you or are set to rebel to you, so you may get drawn into wars you don't like. When Pontus attacks Trapezous (it generally does within a decade), you will automatically be at war with them. Just make peace and offer a little regular tribute to make amends. The city east of Trapezous has a similar alliance, and is generally targeted by the Armenians. More problematic is Halicarnasos. At some point the Ptolemeans (or sometimes the Seleucids) are going to take it and they never garrison it sufficiently. It will then rebel to you, thus destroying your alliance with the Ptolemeans and get you into an drawn-out war with a superpower that will throw stack after stack of high-quality troops at you. You may be able to appease them by giving Hallicarnasos back. However, at this point you should be rich enough to afford high-quality armies yourself, so you may choose to take up the gauntlet.

[Paltmull]

I don't know what difficulty you're playing at. I've only played the KH campaign at M/M, so I don't know if my strategy works at the higher levels. IIRC you have a starting navy consisting of three units. Due to the extremely high navy upkeep in EB, you should disband two of them the first thing you do. After taking Kydonia, use the remaining ships to transport your FM to the mainland. Also, disband the army that you used to take Kydonia (you might need to leave one unit as garrison though).

Everytime that I've played a KH campaign, the big macedonian army outside Athens moves away to fight the Epirotes, so don't try to attack it. A great advantage when playing as the KH is that your generals have infantry bodyguards. Therefore, you can use them as ordinary infantry. If you put all of your generals (exept the governor of Rhodos) in one army you will need very few other units, thus not creating too serious upkeep problems. Since Korinthos is blocking the way, you will need to use your ships to transport your generals to Sparte. After doing that, disband your ships.

After the Macedonian army has left, blitz Korinthos and Chalkis. Taking cities will be quite easy, due to the superiority of your bodyguards. If fighting in the narrow streets, it won't matter if they're outnumbered. After taking the two cities, you should make enough money to field a fairly strong army.

[Cambyses]

As others have said. Disband the navy and take Corinth at the earliest opportunity. When I played as KH I actually lost Athens for a few years, but it wasnt really a major issue as the two island territories are totally secure, so you can focus all your energies in one place, fighting north from Sparta. Long term, you should be ok as soon as you (re)take Athens and Demetrias. After that you'll have more money than you know what to do with and can start devising clever strategies to ship armies around the map and capture all the weird and wonderful places you need to complete your victory conditions (which incidentally involves going to war with virtually every faction in the game...)

[Apraxiteles]

Corinth is definately a priority, but I've found that I can usually take it with the starting garrison in Sparta, with perhaps a few units from Athens. Antigonos usually withdraws for a few years, giving you a brief chance to consolidate power. I then move all my mainland troops to Athens and wait. While this is happening, I usually send Areus on a short Odyssey through the Aegean, taking Krete, Lesbos, and Euboia before arriving to boister the garrison at Athens. Once the Odyssey is over, I throw my ships at the Makedonian fleet. If I win, I go on to blockade their remaining ports. With control of the Aegean trade routes, the cash starts pouring in, and with all my troops in Athens, my position is nearly unassailable. I can then focus on developing my infrastructure, espescially trade, while slowly building a second army with which to take the fight to the Makedonians.

[Raiuga]

I'm currently playing a KH campaing and this is what I have done.

The set difficulty is H/M, no battle limit, using BI.exe and no other mini-mods. This may or may not change the AI (too much) but you will see more naval action than using RTW.exe.


My strategy is simple and implies taking risks. I don't disband any unit in the beginning nor do I train. your initial army will suffice for now. I use the spy in krete to enter the city and open the gates (if he can) and then Areus moves for assault. If you use him(spartan hoplites) well, you will win the battle without many losses. Use him to lead the attack, park him in the streets on "hold" and he will kill anything that comes in is way. Try to kill as many enemy's as you can with the cretan archers outside the walls. The AI is stupid, running around behind the gates. If you are playing with "no battle limit" take you time and only attack when you troops are fresh. After taking the city, "enslave" it, you need the money.

In lakonike, choose one spartan FM to lead the army there, and leave the other governing the city. I usually choose "Eudamidas" to lead the army because "Akrotatos" becames a excellent governor (the guy is good:beam:) but that's up to you. So with that you will have a small army consisting of a Spartan FM, 2 levy hoplites, 1 slinger and 1 skirmisher. take 2 ships from your navy, pick this army, and then sail for attike but not land there (mostly because you can't). you will want to land between Athens and Chalkis. Leave one unit of skirmishers on krete and take the rest of the army commanded by Areus (take the spy as well) and sail for Athens (you wont be able to land wet). Build what ever you want (but not barracks) and set the taxes to Vhigh. You can know end the turn.

Antigonos army is still parked in attike but do not worry they do not seem interested in taking athens. Pray to all the gods you are lucky with autocalc in navy battles, because if you loose, the few units you have are gone. Land Eudamidas and is army between Athens and Chalkis and attack the Macedonians "that usually" are parked outside Chalkis. You will have a battle against that units and the garrison of the city. If you are lucky and kill all the units, you will take the city in this turn. If not, don't worry, you will take it next turn. Reinforce Athens with Areus army and then wait he goes north. I don't know why, Antigonos usualy doesn't attack you, evan if you take their cities.

When Antigonos goes north, leave Chreminides and the classical hoplites in athens, take all you units and attack korinth. The garrison there should be very small, 2 levy phalanx and 1 or 2 more units. Build 2 towers, 1 ram and maybe 2 ladders. If all goes well you will take the city in the very next turn, but there is the possibility that reinforcements (2/3 units come from Thessalia) that will force you to fight in open battle that, in my opinion, is better than assaulting the city. Sack the city. Destroy the rest of the macedonian navy an then disband it.
To this point you should have already made an anti-macedonian alliance with Epeiros and Getai, and a ceasefire with AS.

After this, is up to you. Blitz to north, or build you economy.
I usually follow this strategy. In less than 2 years, I have taken Krete, Euboia and Peloponnesos.

Just don't be afraid of fighting the Macedonian in the open battle. Your levy hoplites with weapon and armor upgrades can do wonders.

Sorry for the long post :sweatdrop:

[moonburn]

1st spy on krete and lets hope the sp open the gates

take the city using the kretans to rain death uppon the city skirmichers and move your 2 hoploi to blockada the streets that go into the gate where you entered (make sure they are in guardmode)

with your general + akontistai make a flanking manouver to your left if this goes well you will have to destroy a unit of kretans and after it you will catch most of their entire army beteween your hoploy and your general + akontistai if things turn wrong ... kretans can fight with a sword. (don´t enslave you will need your kretikoi toxotai as fast as possible)


2nd move leave the akontistai in krete and repair what you can use 1 ship to go to rhodes and collect a few troops there (leave only the governor) with the other 2 move your troops to lakedonia (including spy)

now grab every last troop you can muster in lakedonia (the army of krete will be tired and thus can not be used) and move it up to attack the army north of korinth (don´t attack yet) move whatever troops you can spare from athens and do the same (special note you can move the 3 family members or just the 1 spartans it´s a matter of choice) and make sure you 1st kill both makedonian family members 2nd try to win the batle
special note: the army from athens and the one from lakedonia can´t merge but the athenians can join as reenforcements

if you managed to win siege it and hope you can have enough units for a ram :X and take korinth next turn

on the building part a military goverment in krete a coast clean up in sparta (1st harbour type) and then it´s up to you if you have enough cash to build anything in athens or rhodes or if you prefer to get a unit of akontistai in rhodes for garrison duties

send the diplomat to epeiros to get some mnai for an alliance against makedonia (wich should provide some gold in the next turn to either retrain your army or develop something)

then set the taxes as high as possible without having people revolting and click the end turn

if the makedonian fleet hasn´t destroyed your´s yet move the ship from rhodes into atikka and drop the soldiers from rhodes marge that ship with the one´s in lakonia and go for the decive batle to see if you or makedonians will rulle the egean (this one always comes down to luck)

merge the athenian and lakedonia army try to merge also the royal army that came from krete and conquer korinth try to move them as fast as possible to athens for retraining (normally merging units of those hoploi who can reach athens with those who can´t leaving a few soldiers to reach athens fast and retrain them seems to work)

the rodhian troops should be sent into athens and then merge all armies into one take chalkis

by now you have a strong position with all of your troops concentrated into 1 strip of easily defenssable region set in athens where you can retrain your troops and provide them with weapons upgrades before 271 arrives you should be allied with epeiros and be getting over 2k mnai each turn from the seulekians

[Loghova]

It really was as simple as taking Corinth.

Initial turn, I besieged the city on Crete. I built 2 levy hoplites in Athens, and 2 archers in Sparta. After I end my initial turn, the defenders of Crete attack my besiegers (they have done this in every game I have started). The fight is easy, with few casualties taken.

The next turn I move all forces from Crete, with the exception of one garrison unit (one of the levy hoplites), to Attica. Next turn, all forces from Athens, with the exception of the general and classic hoplites, are moved to Attica. Then, the combined armies plus all forces from Sparta besiege Corinth which - surprise! surprise! - had its gates opened by the spy.

After Corinth falls, Chalkis easily falls. Once my army was moved to Athens, my position was indeed unassailable. Plus, my finances are in the black!

Thanks for the help, guys. I suppose I just needed to take some risks, but Antigonius' stack was pretty worrisome. I thoguht he would attack me as soon as I exposed myself, or, even worse, would besiege Athens. I didnt realize he would be up north, fighting the Epirites.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

There's quite a bit of luck in it too, especially on VH campaign difficulty. With Pyrrhus' forces up by Pella, you could expect the Makedonians to send the majority of their forces there to protect the capital, but the hopeless AI often forgets and focuses on you, or, even worse, the Epeirotes decide they like the Maks and decide the march off somewhere else.

KH is a pretty fun first campaign in EB, expect to see it liven up a lot when certain Hellenic cities start to rebel to you.

Good luck and keep with it, it's easy to give up at the start but give each faction a chance, they're all awesome in one way or another.