The Historical Armies Thread

[IrishHitman]

Due to the continued success of multiplayer games on EB, I have decided to create this thread so that we can post a series of multiplayer armies based on historical sources. I also would like everyone else to post some as well.

Hopefully we can stage massive hypothetical battles if people are willing.

Here's the first one to get us started.

Army of Alexander the Great, Spring 334 BCE, Start of the Persian Campaign:
Source: J.R. Hamilton's introduction in Aubrey de Sélincourt's translation of The Campaigns of Alexander.
Scale: Approx 1 Unit/1,000 troops except where otherwise stated.

I will place quotes/paraphrasing of what my sources specifically say, but you do not have to do that.

Player 1: Makedonia:
2 x Companion Cavalry ("...originally 1,800 troopers")
2 x Thessalian Cavalry ("the Thessalian cavalry, also 1,800 strong at the start of the expedition")
1 x Hellenic Medium Cavalry ("The Greek Allies furnished 600 horsemen")
1 x Thracian Prodromoi ("... and the remaining 900 were made up of Thracians, Paeonians and "Scouts" (Prodromoi) who were also called "Lancers" (Sarissophoroi)...)
3 x Hypaspists ("These were an élite corps, consisting of a Royal battalion (agema) and two other battalions, each of approximately 1,000 men")
1 x Agrianian Assault Infantry ("The outstanding unit among the light troops was the Agrianians, 1,000 strong")

Player 2: Makedonia:
9 x Pezhetairoi (9,000 "Foot Companions")
3 x Thracian Peltasts (3,000 of 7,000 "Thracian and Illyrian light troops armed with javelins")
4 x Peltasts (4,000 of 7,000 "Thracian and Illyrian light troops armed with javelins")

Player 3: Koinon Hellenon (representing the League of Corinth allied infantry and Greek mercs):
7 x Classical Hoplites ("7,000 Heavy Infantry")
5 x Mercenary Classical Hoplites ("while 5,000 Greeks served as mercenaries")
1 x Cretan Archers ("Two bodies of archers from Crete and Macedonia respectively")
1 x Toxotai ("Two bodies of archers from Crete and Macedonia respectively")

[dejan07]

I like your choice IrishHitman, unfortunately we don't have Persians. :laugh4:

If you are interested i have many historical army lists in my archive from my wargaming experience

[IrishHitman]

I like your choice IrishHitman, unfortunately we don't have Persians. :laugh4:

If you are interested i have many historical army lists in my archive from my wargaming experience

The Persians can be easily simulated as the Successors adopted many of the Persian units in their armies....

Besides, it's not only the Persians that we can test the Grand Armée on...

I'd like to have a go at Julius Caesar.

[antisocialmunky]

I was going to do a series of games based on Alexander's campaigns in glorious 3vs3 or 3vs4.

[mountaingoat]

sign me up for this , can someone post .. lets say a getai vs rome scenario?

[fleaza]

nobody cares about the getai, they were nobodys in history.

alexander the great on the other hand, mattered.

[kekailoa]

nobody cares about the getai, they were nobodys in history.

alexander the great on the other hand, mattered.

Hmmm, a little harsh, one would say? I think making statements like these lead to conflict and arguments between members. So I wouldn't say things like this.

Anyway, what about Vercingetorix's army and perhaps the battle for Gaul? Such as the Helvetii armies, or the Belgians?

[A Very Super Market]

Just a troll. Ignore him.


The Persians were a multi-ethnic empire anyways, and they used quite a bit of Greek mercs against Alexander as well. Nothing too hard to portray, but you'll have trouble with the immortals.

[Apázlinemjó]

Just a troll. Ignore him.


The Persians were a multi-ethnic empire anyways, and they used quite a bit of Greek mercs against Alexander as well. Nothing too hard to portray, but you'll have trouble with the immortals.

The Persian Archer-Spearmen are similar to them, aren't they?

[mountaingoat]

nobody cares about the getai, they were nobodys in history.



lol


back on topic .. i think the more scenarios the better , 4v4 setups would be awesome ...

[spiritusdilutus]

That`s a swell idea Hitman! I was always thinking of doing our own custom historical battle with recreated historical armies. :idea2:

Nothing beats a good game with pre-set and arranged troops, tactical efficiency is required to the max at that point.

[jazstl]

Yes, Alexander mattred, sometimes too much, so the ancient writers dubbled the enemy numbers...:furious3:

[antisocialmunky]

You guys can play the EB historical battles online though I rather do our own with more men and hten fraps it.

[IrishHitman]

Gentlemen, Alexander vs. Darius requires.... demands.... a 5v3.
Mainly because I can fully represent the 100,000 troops that were most likely fielded at Issus and Gaugamela. That said, the following army will be less accurate due to the problem with accurate sources on the size and composition of Darius' armies.

Note: Hellenic Native Spearmen and Eastern Skirmishers are the closest thing to the lightly armed Persian infantry.

Army of Darius III, November 333 BCE (Issus):
Source: Various (Wikipedia linked books basically).
Scale: Approx 1 Unit/1,000 troops except where otherwise stated.

Player 1: Arche Seleukeia
1 x Scythed Chariot (Darius himself, after all, what would Issus be if Darius didn't chicken out?)
3 x Persian Heavy Cavalry
5 x Medium Eastern Cavalry
3 x Median Medium Cavalry
4 x Hellenic Native Spearmen
4 x Eastern Skirmishers

Player 2: Hayasdan
10 x Armenian Spearmen
10 x Persian Hoplites (The Immortals)

Player 3: Ptolemaioi
10 x Hellenic Native Spearmen
5 x Hellenic Skirmishers
5 x Native Egyptian Infantry

Player 4: Pontus:
10 x Eastern Skirmishers
10 x Hoplitai (Greek Mercenaries)

Player 5: Arche Seleukeia
10 x Eastern Axemen
10 x Hellenic Native Spearmen

[Azathoth]

No nomads?

[Mr Polska]

Gentlemen, Alexander vs. Darius requires.... demands.... a 5v3.
Mainly because I can fully represent the 100,000 troops that were most likely fielded at Issus and Gaugamela. That said, the following army will be less accurate due to the problem with accurate sources on the size and composition of Darius' armies.

Note: Hellenic Native Spearmen and Eastern Skirmishers are the closest thing to the lightly armed Persian infantry.


What about the Gund-i-Nizagan?

[antisocialmunky]

What about the Gund-i-Nizagan?

They are more photogenic.

We should use as many different types of hordes of spearmans. If you really want to do this, you might want to PM TPC.

[IrishHitman]

No nomads?

Nomads were too far off to take part in the Battle of Issus.

Darius' Gaugamela army would have much more of those.

[seienchin]

Due to the continued success of multiplayer games on EB, I have decided to create this thread so that we can post a series of multiplayer armies based on historical sources. I also would like everyone else to post some as well.

Hopefully we can stage massive hypothetical battles if people are willing.

Here's the first one to get us started.

Army of Alexander the Great, Spring 334 BCE, Start of the Persian Campaign:
Source: J.R. Hamilton's introduction in Aubrey de Sélincourt's translation of The Campaigns of Alexander.
Scale: Approx 1 Unit/1,000 troops except where otherwise stated.

I will place quotes/paraphrasing of what my sources specifically say, but you do not have to do that.

Player 1: Makedonia:
2 x Companion Cavalry ("...originally 1,800 troopers")
2 x Thessalian Cavalry ("the Thessalian cavalry, also 1,800 strong at the start of the expedition")
1 x Hellenic Medium Cavalry ("The Greek Allies furnished 600 horsemen")
1 x Thracian Prodromoi ("... and the remaining 900 were made up of Thracians, Paeonians and "Scouts" (Prodromoi) who were also called "Lancers" (Sarissophoroi)...)
3 x Hypaspists ("These were an élite corps, consisting of a Royal battalion (agema) and two other battalions, each of approximately 1,000 men")
1 x Agrianian Assault Infantry ("The outstanding unit among the light troops was the Agrianians, 1,000 strong")

Player 2: Makedonia:
9 x Pezhetairoi (9,000 "Foot Companions")
3 x Thracian Peltasts (3,000 of 7,000 "Thracian and Illyrian light troops armed with javelins")
4 x Peltasts (4,000 of 7,000 "Thracian and Illyrian light troops armed with javelins")

Player 3: Koinon Hellenon (representing the League of Corinth allied infantry and Greek mercs):
7 x Classical Hoplites ("7,000 Heavy Infantry")
5 x Mercenary Classical Hoplites ("while 5,000 Greeks served as mercenaries")
1 x Cretan Archers ("Two bodies of archers from Crete and Macedonia respectively")
1 x Toxotai ("Two bodies of archers from Crete and Macedonia respectively")

Nice list. :)
But you are implying Alexander had more Hoplites than Phalangitai?
Do you have any sources for that?

[IrishHitman]

Nice list. :)
But you are implying Alexander had more Hoplites than Phalangitai?
Do you have any sources for that?


J.R. Hamilton's introduction in Aubrey de Sélincourt's translation of The Campaigns of Alexander

According to J R Hamilton's sources, at the start of Alexander's campaign, yes.
Mainly due to the large Greek allied contingent and the forces he left behind in Macedonia.

The figures are based on Diodorus' figures which agree with Arrian's (and therefore, Ptolemy's), and can be taken as correct for the most part..

[Azathoth]

Nomads were too far off to take part in the Battle of Issus.

Darius' Gaugamela army would have much more of those.

Sorry, thought one of those was for Gaugamela.

[IrishHitman]

Sorry, thought one of those was for Gaugamela.

I'll be making a Gaugamela model for both armies, don't worry.

[IrishHitman]

I just tested the Hellenic Native Spearmen, they rout and rally pretty accurately along the lines of what various sources say they did.

i.e. without a leader, they're going to crumble eventually.

[Azathoth]

And no chevrons/upgrades, right?

[IrishHitman]

And no chevrons/upgrades, right?

Yes, though I may add some if certain units do not perform as well as sources indicate they did.

[mountaingoat]

can we form a group or something so we can get this going?

[IrishHitman]

can we form a group or something so we can get this going?

Well, we only have two armies so far.

The rest of you, get working!

[m0r1d1n]

awsm idea Irish...:2thumbsup:
i would love to take part in any such a recreation..here's a battle i got some stats for...from wikipedia:sweatdrop:

The Battle of Sellasia - 222 BC between the armies of Antigonus III Doson, King of Macedonia, and Cleomenes III, King of Sparta. (always been interested in that)

Cleomenes had taken up a strong position, placing his army across a road that followed a river running between two hills, Olympus and Eva.
His army of 20,000 infantrymen was composed of Spartan hoplites, possibly Spartan pikemen (according to Plutarch, Cleomenes had armed 2.000 Lacedaemonians in the Macedonian way), perioeci, mercenaries and about 650 cavalry. The Spartan phalanx, under the personal command of Cleomenes, made up the right wing of the battle line and was positioned on the hilltop of Olympus near Sellasia. This force was supported by a body of light infantry mercenaries. The allied troops as well as the perioeci phalanx were led by Cleomenes' brother, Eucleidas. These forces made up the left wing of Cleomenes' battle line and were positioned on Evas. The center occupied the valley and road and was made up of Spartan cavalry, supported by mercenaries. Cleomenes probably hoped that the higher tactical position his army enjoyed would compensate for his numerical inferiority. To be sure, he ordered a ditch dug and a palisade raised all along the front line.

Antigonus, for his part, arrived on the scene with a superior force of around 30,000 men, including the allied forces of the Achaean League. For the first time since the beginning of the 3rd century BC, the Macedonians arrayed against the Spartans a true national army and not one composed of mercenaries.
Antigonous alone had with him 10,000 pikemen, 3.000 peltasts and 300 horse from Macedonia as well as 1.000 Agrianes, 1.600 Illyrians, 1.000 Gaul and 3.000 unidentified mercenary foot and 300 horse. The allies provided him with further important contingents, the Achaeans with 3.000 foot and 300 horse, the Boeotians with 2.000 foot and 200 horse, the Acarnanians with 1.000 foot and 50 horse, the Hepirotes with 1.000 foot and 50 horse. According to Plutarch, out of 6.000 Spartans, only 2 survived, the others preferring honorable death to disgrace. Cleomenes fled to Alexandria where he stayed until his death.


so from spartans, we have
4x spartiates
2x greek phalanx
14x hoplites, mercs and skirmishers( say 5 : 5 : 4)
1 x cav (xystophoroi)

and for maks,

10 x phalangites
3 x peltasts
1 x companions
1 x agrianes
1 to 2 x illirian mercs
1 x celtic inf.
10 x merc hoplitai and skirmish (say 5 : 5)
1 x merc cavalry (say medium...prodromoi)


what say....

[Azathoth]

Maybe regular Hoplitai should be used instead of the Spartan hoplite unit? There must have been only a few hundred full Spartans by that time, though I guess even with 4 EB Spartan phalanxes that army would be a pushover for the Mak player, so keeping them in the name of balance is reasonable.

[Andronikos]

4xSpartans = 2xArgyraspides so it is the same number of elites if two of 10 makedonian phalangites would be elite.

[Phalanx300]

At Sellasia Sparta had 6000 Spartan citizens, a Spartan king Cleomenes III just grabbed power in Sparta and was bringing back the old ways of Sparta. He also adopted the Macedonian Phalanx which the Spartans by then used! The Periokoi were still fighting as Hoplites in this battle though.

[moonburn]

am i the only one that finds it wierd that the spartans have twice the cavalery of makedonia and the spartans are of higher quality ? shouldn´t there be a unit of hetaroi vs perhaps 2 units of hippeis to represent this or had the mak´s lost their cavalry tradition could no longer field tesalians and the spartans abandoned their farming ways and started to let the fields grow into grasslands for horses ? :dizzy2:

[m0r1d1n]

At Sellasia Sparta had 6000 Spartan citizens, a Spartan king Cleomenes III just grabbed power in Sparta and was bringing back the old ways of Sparta. He also adopted the Macedonian Phalanx which the Spartans by then used! The Periokoi were still fighting as Hoplites in this battle though.

yup...so 4 spartans is pretty reasonable...


4xSpartans = 2xArgyraspides so it is the same number of elites if two of 10 makedonian phalangites would be elite.

i do not think that the argraspides as strong as they are in EB..should be present at all...there were no immortal argyraspides left after the diadochi wars IMO...but then again any and all of my readings in this era are EB and ye olde' wiki so...

and yes i think the KH had good cav and the maks cav had deteriorated as the true hetairoi, skilled warriors as they were, were significantly lesser...the reasons they lost to romans..but of course maks should have more cav than KH any time

EDIT : i guess this could be a nice 2vs 2 battle(right wing and left) but of courese we could add some units to make the scope larger (it is currently 21 units vs 28)

[m0r1d1n]

sign me up for this , can someone post .. lets say a getai vs rome scenario?

i think that any rome vs. maks battles in the maceedonian wars can be made into 2 vs 2...2 guys control roman armies (legion inf. + allies and cav.), while 2 guys control maks..(one with maks and the other the thracians..they were plenty...i think they had an alliance of sort..:sweatdrop:)

[IrishHitman]

Gentlemen, this is not only for battles that actually happened.

I intend to have a go at a few battles that never could be.

Alexander versus Caesar being the obvious one.

[Phalanx300]

yup...so 4 spartans is pretty reasonable...

What I mean with it is that the Spartans fought as Phalangites, so letting them be Koinen Phalangites with upgrades would be better.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gentlemen, this is not only for battles that actually happened.

I intend to have a go at a few battles that never could be.

Alexander versus Caesar being the obvious one.

A great idea! I'd certainly be interested in that, though we should try to recreate the ancient formations as well and fight with their tactics. :sweatdrop:

[IrishHitman]

What I mean with it is that the Spartans fought as Phalangites, so letting them be Koinen Phalangites with upgrades would be better.

A great idea! I'd certainly be interested in that, though we should try to recreate the ancient formations as well and fight with their tactics. :sweatdrop:

Well, there's not many more ways you can use those armies effectively regardless.

[Andronikos]

Check this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106523

There is a good historical armies composition paper by Moros.

[IrishHitman]

Check this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106523

There is a good historical armies composition paper by Moros.

Brilliant!
Balloon. :balloon2:

What we need to do now is expand it to fit a multiplayer setting at a scale near enough 1 unit/1,000 troops

[Azathoth]

At Sellasia Sparta had 6000 Spartan citizens, a Spartan king Cleomenes III just grabbed power in Sparta and was bringing back the old ways of Sparta. He also adopted the Macedonian Phalanx which the Spartans by then used! The Periokoi were still fighting as Hoplites in this battle though.

The point I was trying to make was that there were very few real homioi by then, so I don't see why the EB Spartan Hoplite should be used, as it would make the Spartan MPer unrealistically strong. But then again (my other point), it might in fact be better to include the EB Spartan units for the sake of balance. That's what I was trying to say.

[Ibrahim]

If I may, I'd laike to add an army. its not exactly EB period, but no EB game is complete sine arabianz:clown:

26* cavalry and 300 foot: should be equal to 2 unit of cavalry, and the rest infantry. I suspect some of them, perhaps 3-8 were archers, everbody else with spears or swords.:yes:

or
1/2 a unit of cavalry and the rest infantry (40 cavalry and 1500 infantry; or 26 and 1000-they come out similar).




and I doubt spartiatai were used at sellasia. didn't the king ATT, Kleomenes, make the hoplites into phalangitai?:book:

[Phalanx300]

The point I was trying to make was that there were very few real homioi by then, so I don't see why the EB Spartan Hoplite should be used, as it would make the Spartan MPer unrealistically strong. But then again (my other point), it might in fact be better to include the EB Spartan units for the sake of balance. That's what I was trying to say.

There were a few hundred Spartan citizens/Homioi around that time. Then Cleomenes III grabbed power in Sparta and made some changes to bring back the "old" Sparta which was long gone. Now what he also did was he turned his land to the state and all other citizens as well and it was redivided for 6000 slots. The remaining slots were for the Hypomeiones, the Spartans without citizenship which made for 4000 Spartans. The remaining 2000 were Helots who thus became Neodamodeis.

(So if we go by 1000 then that would make 6 Koinen Phalangites with experienc upgrade)

He also modified the Spartan army by adopting the Macedonian Phalanx for the Spartans!




and I doubt spartiatai were used at sellasia. didn't the king ATT, Kleomenes, make the hoplites into phalangitai?

No he made the Spartans into Phalangites, the Hoplite allies still fought at Hoplites.

And there were 6000 Spartans at Sellasia which made it special because there were actually alot of Spartans fighting (in this late time).

[IrishHitman]

Can someone get me a troop list for Julius Caesar's army that he was given by the Senate?
(Not the subsequent troops he raised later on).

His four legions basically.

[Azathoth]

There were a few hundred Spartan citizens/Homioi around that time. Then Cleomenes III grabbed power in Sparta and made some changes to bring back the "old" Sparta which was long gone. Now what he also did was he turned his land to the state and all other citizens as well and it was redivided for 6000 slots. The remaining slots were for the Hypomeiones, the Spartans without citizenship which made for 4000 Spartans. The remaining 2000 were Helots who thus became Neodamodeis.

(So if we go by 1000 then that would make 6 Koinen Phalangites with experienc upgrade)

He also modified the Spartan army by adopting the Macedonian Phalanx for the Spartans!

First, there were only 2000 Spartan phalangites, the others fighting as hoplites. Now see, you're giving them EB Spartan units and Greek Phalangites with chevrons. These "Spartans" were, as you said, periokoi and helots, not the hardcore homioi of days past. I'll give you the Spartan hoplite unit for balance (and on the assumption the Spartans still used bronze breastplates), but chevrons for the Phalangitai? Before you can decide that, you have to know which pikemen the Macedonian player has. Hysteroi? Pezhetairoi? A mix of these plus Argyraspidai (meaning 3 potential types of phalanx for the Maks)?

From the EB Unit List: KH Phalangitai have morale inferior to all 3, attack inferior by 1-2, defense is equal to Argyraspidai, inferior to Hysteroi, superior to Pezhetairoi, all have the same sword except for Argyraspidai (theirs is better). I would advocate 1 chevron, to make them inferior only to Argyraspidai. But the biggest issue is in fact morale; is that much of an issue in MP (given that human players can often get units to fight to the last man if not outflanked)?

[Phalanx300]

First, there were only 2000 Spartan phalangites, the others fighting as hoplites. Now see, you're giving them EB Spartan units and Greek Phalangites with chevrons. These "Spartans" were, as you said, periokoi and helots, not the hardcore homioi of days past. I'll give you the Spartan hoplite unit for balance (and on the assumption the Spartans still used bronze breastplates), but chevrons for the Phalangitai? Before you can decide that, you have to know which pikemen the Macedonian player has. Hysteroi? Pezhetairoi? A mix of these plus Argyraspidai (meaning 3 potential types of phalanx for the Maks)?

What are you basing that on? From Roma Surrectum Historians and other sources they all say the Spartans switched to Phalangites.

These Spartans were about 700 men, the Hypomeiones joined them as full citizens which came to 4000 Spartans. The remaining 2000 were Helots given full citizinship which made a force of 6000 Spartans.

They weren't the hardcore Homioi of the past yet they were more hardcore and true to Spartan law then the previous Spartans and possibly/probably the EB Spartans.




From the EB Unit List: KH Phalangitai have morale inferior to all 3, attack inferior by 1-2, defense is equal to Argyraspidai, inferior to Hysteroi, superior to Pezhetairoi, all have the same sword except for Argyraspidai (theirs is better). I would advocate 1 chevron, to make them inferior only to Argyraspidai. But the biggest issue is in fact morale; is that much of an issue in MP (given that human players can often get units to fight to the last man if not outflanked)?

I'd say give Phillip Pezhetairoi and perhaps a unit of Argyraspidai, we also have a Historical battle with this same Phillip against Rome! Phalangite levies is probably no seeing that they were only called upon with emergency and this wasn't that but the Factional army. And yes 1 chevron would do great.

[IrishHitman]

I disagree on the chevron front.

We need to test any unit we intend to give chevrons against their historical opponents, then assign or deny them chevrons based on how close they are to performing to how sources say they did.

[Azathoth]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0018:chapter=23&highlight=sellasia

I guess those 2000 helots were the Pikemen then. If not, then the Spartans had 8000 pikemen, which I doubt.



I'd say give Phillip Pezhetairoi and perhaps a unit of Argyraspidai, we also have a Historical battle with this same Phillip against Rome! Phalangite levies is probably no seeing that they were only called upon with emergency and this wasn't that but the Factional army. And yes 1 chevron would do great.

Philip? You mean Antigonos Doson.

[Phalanx300]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0018:chapter=23&highlight=sellasia

I guess those 2000 helots were the Pikemen then. If not, then the Spartans had 8000 pikemen, which I doubt.



Philip? You mean Antigonos Doson.


Oh my bad always seem to confuse the two.

And about that link, nothing seems to say that there were only 2000 pikemen and 4000 hoplites among the Spartans.

[Azathoth]

The alternative is that Cleomenes had 8000 phalangites.

[Phalanx300]

The alternative is that Cleomenes has 8000 phalangites.

Again where do you base that from? :inquisitive: All sources I've read said 6000 Spartan Phalangites.

[Azathoth]

After Antigonus had taken Tegea by siege, and had surprised Orchomenus and Mantineia, Cleomenes, now reduced to the narrow confines of Laconia, set free those of the Helots who could pay down five Attic minas (thereby raising a sum of five hundred talents), armed two thousand of them in Macedonian fashion as an offset to the White Shields of Antigonus, and planned an undertaking which was great and entirely unexpected.

Macedonian fashion = pike phalanx. So 2000 pike phalanx here, and if you add 6000 more Spartans that's 8000.

[Phalanx300]

Macedonian fashion = pike phalanx. So 2000 pike phalanx here, and if you add 6000 more Spartans that's 8000.

Yes, after he changed the Spartan army he added 2000 Helots into the Spartan Phalanx which numbered 4000 without them, such things happened before. When Sparta gave Helots full citizenship they would become Neodamodeis.

[Azathoth]

Uh-huh, those were two separate instances. Ok.

[Phalanx300]

Uh-huh, those were two separate instances. Ok.

Yes it were, yet where does it say then that the Spartan Phalanx numbered 6000 before that?

The 6000 Spartans at Sellasia of which were 2000 previous Helots.

[Azathoth]

Yes it were, yet where does it say then that the Spartan Phalanx numbered 6000 before that?

The 6000 Spartans at Sellasia of which were 2000 previous Helots.

I was agreeing with you; sorry if I sounded sarcastic.

[Phalanx300]

I was agreeing with you; sorry if I sounded sarcastic.

Oh, seemed like you were beeing sarcastic:sweatdrop:. Though the rest of Cleomenes his army isn't very called as detailed with numbers and what kind of units.

[IrishHitman]

Can we move on from the Spartans please....

[m0r1d1n]

Can someone get me a troop list for Julius Caesar's army that he was given by the Senate?
(Not the subsequent troops he raised later on).

His four legions basically.

four veteran legions: Legio VII, Legio VIII, Legio IX Hispana, and Legio X

typical legion of this period had 5,120 legionaries as well as a large number of camp followers, servants and slaves. Legions could contain as many as 6,000 fighting men when including the auxiliaries, although much later in Roman history the number was reduced to 1,040 to allow for greater mobility. Numbers would also vary depending on casualties suffered during a campaign; Julius Caesar's legions during his campaign in Gaul often only had around 3,500 men.

so i think we got...5000*4 legionaries and 1000*4 auxiliaries (light cavalry, light infantry or velites)

ummm...i don't think it would be correct to take 1 unit=1000 men..instead lets divide the total no. of men in a particular unit type by their unit size in EB...

like...20000/200 = 100 legionaries,
1500 cav / 100 = 15 units cav.
2500 L.I. / 160 = 15 units L.I. (approx.)

ratio = 6 or 7:1:1 (approx.)

OR

the previous way we got 20 legionaries 2 cav, 2 auxilia infantry

then we keep the ratio of units intact while scaling down the total no. of units for both caesar's army and megas's army (after determining the no. of units there too) to make the battle playable in MP EB...what say??

i know this is a rather approximate amount but....best i could get...:sweatdrop:...

[mountaingoat]

anyone have more info ?

[antisocialmunky]

I think Pennesula Italica or Invisio Barbarorum... um... ONE of the Roman RTW mods over there at teh twcenter.net has a campaign for Julius Caesar with a fairly extensive dostier of his legions.

[Moros]

Check this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106523

There is a good historical armies composition paper by Moros.

Oh it's not made by me. I just still had a copy of it. As it wasn't online anymore I reuploaded it.

[IrishHitman]

so i think we got...5000*4 legionaries and 1000*4 auxiliaries (light cavalry, light infantry or velites)

ummm...i don't think it would be correct to take 1 unit=1000 men..instead lets divide the total no. of men in a particular unit type by their unit size in EB...

like...20000/200 = 100 legionaries,
1500 cav / 100 = 15 units cav.
2500 L.I. / 160 = 15 units L.I. (approx.)

ratio = 6 or 7:1:1 (approx.)

OR

the previous way we got 20 legionaries 2 cav, 2 auxilia infantry

then we keep the ratio of units intact while scaling down the total no. of units for both caesar's army and megas's army (after determining the no. of units there too) to make the battle playable in MP EB...what say??

i know this is a rather approximate amount but....best i could get......

Well, he doubled his legions early in his campaign, as far as I'm aware.

[m0r1d1n]

yupp that he did..i just took into account the veteran legions...
so come on..somebody compile and set up a match-up...2 vs. 2
:smash::smash: caesar vs. megas :smash::smash:

[IrishHitman]

yupp that he did..i just took into account the veteran legions...
so come on..somebody compile and set up a match-up...2 vs. 2
:smash::smash: caesar vs. megas :smash::smash:

It would take a 4v4 to do it.