so you find yourself in 272 bc....

[mountaingoat]

what would you choose to do?

and since i cannot edit this poll , we could say that the romans did have IT networks ... and that by servering the emperor .. you are helping to ... setup ..... servers... of ... some sort ...

[pezhetairoi]

Find out where you are.

[Azathoth]

Enter the cave and go forward.

[mountaingoat]

sorry i took a while to think of what to enter in the poll , only yo make a mistake with some spelling .. :laugh4:

anyway pick an option

[bobbin]

Rome didn't have an emperor in 272bc so not that...

I know! throwing a roof tile at a certain uppity hellenic monarch (I'd have to wear a dress for that).:smash:

[Azathoth]

I wouldn't want to do any of those things! Also, there was no emperor in Rome in 272 BC.

Anyway, I would immediately set out to look for The Book by finding a native and asking for the location of the nearest sovereign/village leader/general and the geographical location of the area relative to Athens.

[mountaingoat]

oh this is not meant to be extremely historically accurate ... even though this is an EB forum :sweatdrop: ... just pick an option punks

[antisocialmunky]

"servering the emperor at rome"

I'm sure the Emperor of Rome really needs an IT department if he were somehow also magically transported to 272 years in the past.

[Hax]

I would travel to the lands of Maurya, one of the greatest at that time and write down the Buddhist scriptures in English, French and Dutch, so in 2,000 years people have a clear view of the founding of Buddhism.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I'd visit the Senate of Carthage and convince them to support that Hannibal guy.

[DaciaJC]

I would go visit the leader of the Getai, advise him to spam falxmen, and then he would go forth conquering the world.

[mountaingoat]

"servering the emperor at rome"

I'm sure the Emperor of Rome really needs an IT department if he were somehow also magically transported to 272 years in the past.


can you explain this then?

https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4155/newromeorder.jpg

[Aemilius Paulus]

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

A balloon to you: :balloon:

EDIT: WINDOWS!!!!1!



I would go visit the leader of the Getai, advise him to spam falxmen, and then he would go forth conquering the world.
Heh, but that is what Getai did, and they lost to Roma anyway. Falxman spam tends to crumple under Syrian Archers and Pila. Think the EB falxmen are vulnerable to missiles? Wait 'till you see RL ones!

[mountaingoat]

oh yes and i picked nomad btw , i would start in cyclades then work up to the getai and the steppe , make my way south to babylon and then east to africa , up through spain and western europe .

[Aemilius Paulus]

This thread is biased. How about more Hellene things? I chose serving the Roman Emperor, advising him with my knowledge of explosives (I love making bombs, including ones from black powder), and some other odds and ends, such as the stirrup or perhaps springs to re-introduce chariots, but this time effective, as the lack of springs was the chariots' main problem - the terrain had to be skating-ring flat. So basically, I would do my best to ensure the Roman empire lasted. And then I would introduce the Printing Press and build a time-capsule with all the works of Greek and Roman thinkers.

But at the same time I would love to serve in the Athenian Academy, or especially the Lyceum, as it was more scientific and less philosophical.

[Ibrahim]

I want to vote for arabia!!:furious3:

[option]

To hell with the posted options, I would head straight for Carthage and live in luxury or join Pyrrhos' entourage and convince him that perhaps slowing down and consolidating his conquests for a few years would be a wiser decision.

[DaciaJC]

Heh, but that is what Getai did, and they lost to Roma anyway. Falxman spam tends to crumple under Syrian Archers and Pila. Think the EB falxmen are vulnerable to missiles? Wait 'till you see RL ones!

Bah, there's no option for "Arcade Battles" in RL, either. Think the armor-piercing ability is overpowered in EB? Wait 'till you see its effects in RL!


https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/Frontline1944/th_falx_02.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/Frontline1944/?action=view&current=falx_02.jpg)

[Krusader]

See if the hubbub on Temple of Aphrodite in Corinth was as great as its supposed to be.

[satalexton]

I'm sure most of you would know what I'd do.....

[Andy1984]

I'd probably start gambling, visit prostitutes, drink myself almost to dead and definitly not help whatever emperor.

Given nobody knows you there, who's going to blame you for it?

[satalexton]

or, use your superior knowledge of science and nature to make yourself a king...assuming you actually paid attention and remember all those stuff ur taught in high school....and know how to apply it.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Sodding hedonists...

I actually remember the stuff they teach you in high school, in addition to the copious amounts of books I already read. Yeah, I will teach Greek Fire, black powder, and nitroglycerine to the Romans. All three are quite easy for me to make (I know, the recipe we know for Greek Fire is not the original, but hell, it is close enough).

In any case, I want power. Oh yeah. Lots of it. Not just some smelly barbarian chieftain or saddle-sore nomad khan. No, while I am in Antiquity, I may as well wish for the moon. I will become the Emperor of the Roman Empire with my knowledge and then on a single night, execute all the Praetorians. Just like Hitler and the Sturmabteilung (SA), a.k.a. Brown Shirts.

After that I will introduce the Bessemer process to mass-produce stainless steel (with nickel), and then invade what is now modern-day Ukraine to mine titanium, and see if it will be possible to work with it, using the newly-designed furnaces. I will teach the Romans how to build trebuchets if the cannons prove to be weak, although I could rifle them too (but that would mean it would take very long to reload them, as I do not know how to make an effective breech-loading cannon). Then I will introduce oil and coal as energy sources. The list goes on... With coal I can make sulphuric acid, which I do not doubt will become a superb wall-defence weapon. Ahh, chemistry was always my favourite science after astronomy.

Continuing, I would introduce vaccination and antibiotics (I know of a couple of natural sources of antibiotics which perhaps I could isolate) to make my empire impervious even to the plague which will hit it (supposing I come before Marcus Aurelius). Not to mention my meagre medical knowledge would nevertheless revolutionise medicine, and of course, I would ban the use of lead and mercury in sensitive places.

Heh, I could write a book about this...

[satalexton]

OR, use that knowledge to 'enlighten' a village of idiots, make yourself a king through your 'divine blessings', defeat any oppsition with superior technology, then take over the world.

I'd burn Barbaropolis down first if I were you, then wipe out the Seres before they grow too rich/smart/intelligent to rival you.

[Azathoth]

Unfortunatly AP, you won't be able to accomplish all that because:

a. You need acid for nitroglycerine (why would you want it anyway?)
b. There's no industrial base so mass-producing anything will take decades.
c. Sulfuric acid as a wall defence weapon? With Greek Fire and gunpowder available? That's kind of, uh...:juggle2:
d. How are you going to use, or even obtain, oil? Conquer the Arabian Peninsula, and then you have to actually build all the engines that use oil, which I don't think you can do. :inquisitive:
e. Maybe you can vaccinate against smallpox, but the plague? We don't even have a vaccine for that now.

In short, your dream could be accomplished by the time of your grandchildren, but probably long after you are dead (unless you are the Yankee in King Arthur's court on steroids).

[J.R.M]

I´d probably found the city of Bartix, then with time make it an empire, then the world would be mine :whip:

[Ibrahim]

Unfortunatly AP, you won't be able to accomplish all that because:

a. You need acid for nitroglycerine (why would you want it anyway?)
b. There's no industrial base so mass-producing anything will take decades.
c. Sulfuric acid as a wall defence weapon? With Greek Fire and gunpowder available? That's kind of, uh...:juggle2:
d. How are you going to use, or even obtain, oil? Conquer the Arabian Peninsula, and then you have to actually build all the engines that use oil, which I don't think you can do. :inquisitive:
e. Maybe you can vaccinate against smallpox, but the plague? We don't even have a vaccine for that now.

In short, your dream could be accomplished by the time of your grandchildren, but probably long after you are dead (unless you are the Yankee in King Arthur's court on steroids).

well, I know a weapon that can be produced in a manner that can be applied to ancient foundaries :clown:

and the ancient people were capeable of producing the materials needed (lead, iron/bronze, wood, saltpeter, sulfur, brass/copper, leather, linen, papyrus (or more linen :clown:), and coal. mix them in the right proportions, and dress the soldiers in proper clothes, and we get this: )


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Brown_Bess.png

'nuff said.:clown:

EDIT: yes, its within the technological capeabilities of most advanced cultures-though I'd prefer to start out in China, since they were of the perfect economic potential.

[Andy1984]

Since you have no instructors and your soldiers lack even the most basic knowlegde of gun-warfare, it would take decades to train your army. There is litterally no-one who has even a remote clue how to aim, fire and reload a gun. Let alone he'd do it when being charged by some gaesaetae. You'll need to have some accuracy and firepower to make volleys deadly. You'll still have to armour your soldiers (since your opponents will use missiles), which almost forces your soldiers to reload these guns when fully armoured. I really want to see that happen. You can no longer have any kind of decent shield. You'll have to equip your soldiers with something that is capable to break a charge of heavy cavalry...

To me, the introduction of guns seems at best possible in some very specific situations: you need to be able to train your units (no berserkers please) and to have a proper battlefield (no northern-european ambushes, no quick skirmishing raids,...). You'll need to have decent accuracy and enough manpower in order to make your volleys deadly (just imagine being encircled, being heavily outnumbered, or being utterly butchered in man-to-man fighting). You'll need to be capable to find ammunition, to keep your powder dry, to have decent supplies of powder and ammunition (swords can be repaired if needs be)... When you finally assembled your army you should avoid barbarians living in trees or opponents who rely on archers or any kind of heavy shock unit - whether infantry of cavalry.

[satalexton]

though I'd prefer to start out in China, since they were of the perfect economic potential.

Minor problem, they're probably too busy shooting the crap out of each other to give a frak about you.

[Jebivjetar]

what would you choose to do?





I would have a bottle of wine, travel around the world with some instrument and sing the songs. And, yeah: when time comes i would join Hannibals army as his officer :clown:



But at the same time I would love to serve in the Athenian Academy, or especially the Lyceum, as it was more scientific and less philosophical.

Philosophy at that time was considered as Science itself: philosophy was science.

[Apázlinemjó]

So I find myself in 272 BC... I would tell everyone that the Return of the Sith was a damn lame movie.

[mountaingoat]

maybe they can pass that message on for a few thousand years.

someone could go watch a hoplite battle , and etch down a nice description on a stone wall , describing if they used over , under , sowrds .. etc .. to end the hoplite debate and thus have a close representation of how hoplite unit worked in EB

[Skullheadhq]

nomad, steppe->Barbaropolis/Megale Hellas
Loot like the huns.

[Dewirix]

I think there's a limit to the capacity of ancient societies to absorb technological innovations which would frustrate attempts to give them guns or even the printing press.

It's probably possible to build working models of the above (although I certainly couldn't), but persuading a society to adopt them on a widespread basis would be a far greater challenge.

Notwithstanding the fact that you're an outsider and lack the political or financial connections necessary to fund these projects, you'd need some way of demonstrating their benefits.

Take the musket for example; ignoring the technical challenges of building one, you'd need to convince the military hierarchy to adopt the weapon en masse otherwise at best all you'd have is another type of missile infantry which can fire further than archers, but with limited accuracy and very slow reloading times.

Worse still, in city-states like Rome with citizen militia armies, battlefield role is bound up with social status (equites being drawn from the highest classes, then the regular infantry grades, then the light troops at the bottom). Telling a triari (who at this point buys his own equipment), that he now has to fight in the same way as everyone else is unlikely to be popular.

Some innovations could probably be introduced fairly quickly, the stirrup is a good candidate here, but others, even concepts like crop rotation, would meet with heavy resistance on the grounds that you don't really have any evidence as to why people should abandon long-standing customs.

And back to the original question, I'd like to see the Hellenistic east. The idea of Greek kingdoms in India and Afghanistan is so incredible that if someone were to have made it up I wouldn't have believed it.

[Alsatia]

I'd probably be in Roma, running for the tribunate.

I would love to see those greek battles though, and to look and see the sucessor kingdoms.

[Companion Cavalry]

I would assassinate the ancestor of Scipio.

[Andy1984]

nomad, steppe->Barbaropolis/Megale Hellas
Loot like the huns.
That's more like it.:clown:

I wonder whether there are other people who'd unleash the psychopath in themselves and set up one of the most cruel cults he can imagine, including the practices of human sacrifices, decapitatition and head-hunting? And why not include the most gross torture and case of physical and/or sexual violence as well?

[The General]

I'd be in Rome, although I wouldn't, naturally enough, be serving an Emperor...

I'd be probably a Populares senator with a decent military record, thing for Philosophy, altruism, Greek wisdom and inventions, et cetera.


And back to the original question, I'd like to see the Hellenistic east. The idea of Greek kingdoms in India and Afghanistan is so incredible that if someone where to have made it up I wouldn't have believed it.

The same with me, Baktria and Indo-Greek Kingdom fascinate me. The idea of Greek, Indian, Chinese and Persian/Central-Asian cultures meeting and knowledge coalescing...

[Andronikos]

The same with me, Baktria and Indo-Greek Kingdom fascinate me. The idea of Greek, Indian, Chinese and Persian/Central-Asian cultures meeting and knowledge coalescing...

Thirded.

I would be (if my social status allowed) some philosopher or priest or writer or engineer/inventor like Heron.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

I'd head to Britain and tell them to spend the next 300 years building a huge wall around the whole coastline, even though I chose Mesopotamia just because it'd be too cold in England

[bobbin]

Sodding hedonists...

I actually remember the stuff they teach you in high school, in addition to the copious amounts of books I already read. Yeah, I will teach Greek Fire, black powder, and nitroglycerine to the Romans. All three are quite easy for me to make (I know, the recipe we know for Greek Fire is not the original, but hell, it is close enough).

In any case, I want power. Oh yeah. Lots of it. Not just some smelly barbarian chieftain or saddle-sore nomad khan. No, while I am in Antiquity, I may as well wish for the moon. I will become the Emperor of the Roman Empire with my knowledge and then on a single night, execute all the Praetorians. Just like Hitler and the Sturmabteilung (SA), a.k.a. Brown Shirts.

After that I will introduce the Bessemer process to mass-produce stainless steel (with nickel), and then invade what is now modern-day Ukraine to mine titanium, and see if it will be possible to work with it, using the newly-designed furnaces. I will teach the Romans how to build trebuchets if the cannons prove to be weak, although I could rifle them too (but that would mean it would take very long to reload them, as I do not know how to make an effective breech-loading cannon). Then I will introduce oil and coal as energy sources. The list goes on... With coal I can make sulphuric acid, which I do not doubt will become a superb wall-defence weapon. Ahh, chemistry was always my favourite science after astronomy.

Continuing, I would introduce vaccination and antibiotics (I know of a couple of natural sources of antibiotics which perhaps I could isolate) to make my empire impervious even to the plague which will hit it (supposing I come before Marcus Aurelius). Not to mention my meagre medical knowledge would nevertheless revolutionise medicine, and of course, I would ban the use of lead and mercury in sensitive places.

Heh, I could write a book about this...

All that would be nearly impossible to do, sure you could probably make greek fire and black powder relatively easily but nitroglycerine? there won't be tubs of nitric acid, sulphuric acid and glycerol just lying around you'd need to know how to make those, and how to make/extract the reactants to make them. Extracting nickle? very difficult. Ditto the titainium, extremely hard to do.
Making things like that without the support base of technology we have today would be almost impossible for one person to do.

Things you could do would be to introduce ideas like the dangers of lead and mecrury, vaccination etc those would still make a massive difference.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Making things like that without the support base of technology we have today would be almost impossible for one person to do..
Umm, you would think I knew how to make all those things if I mentioned them... I did not mention what I could not do, and when I did (nickel and titanium), I informed the readers that it was unlikely.


All that would be nearly impossible to do, sure you could probably make greek fire and black powder relatively easily but nitroglycerine?
First of all, not probably, but certainly. Back in Russia I produced black powder and then made bombs from it to test it. I used nitrates, ground anthracite and lignite (to test the difference) coal (I had no charcoal unfortunately, but it is easy to make), as well a sulphur of course. 6:2:2 was the precise formula, with nitrates being the "6".

Oh, and I used grainy gunpowder which was invented in the late 17th century, which increases the power of the black powder by at least tens and even hundreds of times. Not only this, but the grainy gunpowder is highly resistant to moisture and is much easier to load, as it is no longer a powder but more like large-grained sand. To produce it, you need to wet regular powder, make balls from it, dry them, and then break them apart. That is pretty much all.

I even made a cannon from an old, thick pipe, and then soldered the end, and to make sure it held, I made some concrete and built a base for the cannon, as well as pouring some concrete on the breech end of the cannon, as I obviously did not trust the solder to hold it. Then I fired the cannon of course, by a remote firing using a kerosene-soaked cord. It was unforgettable :2thumbsup:

As for nitroglycerine, I read the Mysterious Island by Jules Verne, where he meticulously described how to make nitroglycerine just from the things you can find lying around anywhere in nature. Not hard.


there won't be tubs of nitric acid, sulphuric acid and glycerol just lying around you'd need to know how to make those,
Easy. Acids are not difficult to make, and I have read how to produce them. Seriously, how do you think they made they made sulphuric acid in the 8th century? I will use coal to obtain the sulphuric acid (not awfully efficient, but pretty simple), and then use the sulphuric acid on copper nitrate to produce nitric acid.
and how to make/extract the reactants to make them.




Extracting nickle? very difficult. Ditto the titainium, extremely hard to do.
First of all, it is not "nickle", but nickel!!! The former one is unobtainable as it does not exist. But yeah, those two I said that I "may" do if I could. It all depends on how hot of a furnace I can make. They are not essential. I will teach Romans how to make steel, and if I can get them to produce stainless steel, well, that is a bonus. And titanium was rather wistful thinking. At best, I can extract it in an exceedingly impure form. Which is why I did not guarantee the success of that operation.




a. You need acid for nitroglycerine (why would you want it anyway?)
I already know hot to make it. The reason I am going to make it is because nitroglycerine is the most powerful explosive I know how to produce. I will use it to mine and detonate enemy walls in a way my simple gunpowder cannot. It will also be of great aid in civilian technologies.



b. There's no industrial base so mass-producing anything will take decades.
Unlike Americans, I am a patient person, and do not want everything "fast" and "easy". Not to mention, there is no dire need for industrial production of nitroglycerine. Black powder will do, as it is simple as hell to make, and as I ahve said, nitroglycerine will only be used in rare sieges.

c. Sulfuric acid as a wall defence weapon? With Greek Fire and gunpowder available? That's kind of, uh...
You need much less of it than Greek fire to disable targets. Hence its usefulness in missile weapons.


d. How are you going to use, or even obtain, oil? Conquer the Arabian Peninsula, and then you have to actually build all the engines that use oil, which I don't think you can do.
I will conquer the Mesopotamia where the oil has been extracted through wells for millennia. Romania, or Dakia, also has very substantial oil deposits (Ploesti fields). I never said I will build cars or other machines that use oil. I cannot do that, build those engines, nor refine oil. I will simply substitute oil for where wood is used.


e. Maybe you can vaccinate against smallpox, but the plague? We don't even have a vaccine for that now.
Of course not, who do you think I am? An idiot? I read enough NG to know what bubonic plague is. In any case, the Ha! is on you. If you read even a paragraph on the Antonine Plague, you would know that according to descriptions of Galen, the most renowned doctor of that time, it was either smallpox or measles. EPIC FAIL. That plague was not bubonic at all. Just because it is called a "plague" does not make it bubonic. A plague is any highly infectious disease that kills enormous amounts of people in the old times (no one officially called the flu of 19187 a plague). Smallpox is not very difficult to vaccinate against, especially given that Jenner made one in 18th century with relatively little scientific strain.


In short, your dream could be accomplished by the time of your grandchildren, but probably long after you are dead (unless you are the Yankee in King Arthur's court on steroids).
Heh, good book it was. Especially the Gatling-gun the knights. In any case, I would choose Romans or Classical Greeks above any culture in the history of mankind to institute those changes, as IMHO, they woudl be the most receptive. And since Classical Greeks were such a tiny, and geographically isolated civilisation, with little resources, the Romans are certainly the better choice. It will be difficult, but the most crucial military changes will catch on pretty quickly, as their benefits are the most clear and present ones. I will start the change, and by the time I am dead, the machine will be already in motion.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

It surely would not take decades to train an army in using firearms. Using firearms is a lot more easier than using a bow, or let alone a sling. Melee-fighting also requires lots of skill (and balls, of course), much more than simply using firearms. Firearms did revolutionize the military because of the effectiveness, that means, once you could aim at your target and actually hit it, they replaced all other ranged weapons because they were so easy to produce and to be used.

So the main problem in AP's idea is the construction and mass production of those firearms, which I really doubt would be doable within any reasonable limits (AP's lifespan). Training would be simple, first you personally train ten officers, then each trains another ten, and so on.

I think what I really would do is simply re-building my EB-empire in history. Then I would have my slaves build the biggest palace ever made by man for me. I would be the only male in this complex, save for the guards. In the basement would be a giant swimming pool inhabited by thousand of crocodiles which I would use for ritual executions on a weekly basis.

I would promote my prostitutes and sometimes my cats into the Senate, and everytime I visit the Senate, I would humiliate the upper class by asking my cats if they agree with any proposals by the Senatores, and when these meow, say "Oh, no, pussy says she has a better proposal on that matter." Anybody who thinks he's too good to listen to pussy goes to the crocodiles.

[Azathoth]

Why don't you go pitch the concept to Turtledove? :rolleyes::laugh4:


So the main problem in AP's idea is the construction and mass production of those firearms, which I really doubt would be doable within any reasonable limits (AP's lifespan). Training would be simple, first you personally train ten officers, then each trains another ten, and so on.

I think what I really would do is simply re-building my EB-empire in history. Then I would have my slaves build the biggest palace ever made by man for me. I would be the only male in this complex, save for the guards. In the basement would be a giant swimming pool inhabited by thousand of crocodiles which I would use for ritual executions on a weekly basis.

AP knows how to use guns?

And you're starting to sound like an ancient Bond villain, CN. :skull:

[A Very Super Market]

He wouldn't be too out of place in the East....

[Aemilius Paulus]

Oh, and also, hot-air balloons (I know the basics, I know where to get natural gas, and knowing the basics, with trial-and-error, I could produce an invaluable scout - the French used the balloons in Franco-Prussian war especially, to report enemy movement; The Prussians invented a special AA cannon to combat the balloon, as guns and bows did not have the range)

Then I would make a compass and discover Americas. There I will attempt to create a secret Roman Empire, so in case the Old World one falls, the New World one remain safe for a time being. I will keep it secret to deter any Columbus-like individuals. And I will spread the myth of horrific dragons and monsters in the Atlantic Ocean to scare-off future explorer. I may even bring a stuffed anaconda to illustrate the example, or dig up some dinosaurs to further frighten the people. Also, there I will go to Chile and discover the immeasurable bat-guano deposits which will create a fantastical agriculture.

[Ibrahim]

Since you have no instructors and your soldiers lack even the most basic knowlegde of gun-warfare, it would take decades to train your army. There is litterally no-one who has even a remote clue how to aim, fire and reload a gun. Let alone he'd do it when being charged by some gaesaetae. You'll need to have some accuracy and firepower to make volleys deadly. You'll still have to armour your soldiers (since your opponents will use missiles), which almost forces your soldiers to reload these guns when fully armoured. I really want to see that happen. You can no longer have any kind of decent shield. You'll have to equip your soldiers with something that is capable to break a charge of heavy cavalry...

To me, the introduction of guns seems at best possible in some very specific situations: you need to be able to train your units (no berserkers please) and to have a proper battlefield (no northern-european ambushes, no quick skirmishing raids,...). You'll need to have decent accuracy and enough manpower in order to make your volleys deadly (just imagine being encircled, being heavily outnumbered, or being utterly butchered in man-to-man fighting). You'll need to be capable to find ammunition, to keep your powder dry, to have decent supplies of powder and ammunition (swords can be repaired if needs be)... When you finally assembled your army you should avoid barbarians living in trees or opponents who rely on archers or any kind of heavy shock unit - whether infantry of cavalry.

no, it doesn't have to take decades; around 10 years is feasible (heck, the japanese modernized their army in about 10 years). just show them how to make, and they'll churn it out. and training a musketeer doesn't take long anyhow, anywhere from a few weeks to a full year. compare that to a lifetime of bow and arrow practice. and its a great excuse to centralize government-the Chinese and seleukids would have loved it.

and accuracy is irrelevent-no one from that timeperiod would want to mess with a bunch of boys with "firesticks". and the range isn't that short (of course, if your paranoid enough, just rifle the barrel and you can multiply the range by 2 to 4 fold..and if you can support them with pikemen, even better.

as for armor: by your logic, musketeers in the 18th centry were a bunch of turtles-afterall, they fought each other with missiles:clown:

besides, I said specifically that I prefer to start in china: they definately had the means to train, churn, and use (and maintain)musketeers efficiently-hell, they used crossbowmen the same way :yes:

@satalexon: shooting each other didn't stop Qin from improving their weapons/armies* in RL, so why not a musket?

*hey, doesn't that take...listening, then providing the resources.

[Azathoth]

Then I would make a compass and discover Americas. There I will attempt to create a secret Roman Empire, so in case the Old World one falls, the New World one remain safe for a time being. I will keep it secret to deter any Columbus-like individuals. And I will spread the myth of horrific dragons and monsters in the Atlantic Ocean to scare-off future explorer. I may even bring a stuffed anaconda to illustrate the example, or dig up some dinosaurs to further frighten the people. Also, there I will go to Chile and discover the immeasurable bat-guano deposits which will create a fantastical agriculture.

:dizzy2:

[satalexton]

@Ibrahim, that is precisely the problem y they wud not listen to you. The two filled a similar role. Y invent something totally novel when one can simply improve the existing crossbows' power and range? (yeah, thats y they eventually lagged behind in gunpowder weaponery for the average grunt.)

[Ibrahim]

@Ibrahim, that is precisely the problem y they wud not listen to you. The two filled a similar role. Y invent something totally novel when one can simply improve the existing crossbows' power and range? (yeah, thats y they eventually lagged behind in gunpowder weaponery for the average grunt.)

because it offers a chance to centralize government, in the sense that, do you realize the expense of the production of muskets is suficiently high that only a central government can produce, maintain, and equip a gunpowder army? and also the potential for a more powerful weapon in the long run?

and as I said, rifle the musket and it has 400-500 yards on it-much more than a chinese crossbow at its best. and the rate of fire is not too different as well.

now, if this were the ming or ching dynasty, then yes, they wouldn't want any, but not earlier

[bobbin]

As for nitroglycerine, I read the Mysterious Island by Jules Verne, where he meticulously described how to make nitroglycerine just from the things you can find lying around anywhere in nature. Not hard. heh didn't know about that, wouldn't recommend trying to make it though it's severely unstable stuff.



Easy. Acids are not difficult to make, and I have read how to produce them. Seriously, how do you think they made they made sulphuric acid in the 8th century? I will use coal to obtain the sulphuric acid (not awfully efficient, but pretty simple), and then use the sulphuric acid on copper nitrate to produce nitric acid.
and how to make/extract the reactants to make them.
Oh i know sulphuric acid is easy to make, but nitric acid...where would you get copper nitrate from in 272bc? a better source of nitrate would be saltpetre which is much easier to produce given the technology at the time


First of all, it is not "nickle", but nickel!!! The former one is unobtainable as it does not exist. But yeah, those two I said that I "may" do if I could. It all depends on how hot of a furnace I can make. They are not essential. I will teach Romans how to make steel, and if I can get them to produce stainless steel, well, that is a bonus. And titanium was rather wistful thinking. At best, I can extract it in an exceedingly impure form. Which is why I did not guarantee the success of that operation.
Yeah my bad there simple spelling mistake, i really think your underestimating the amount of knowledge and expertise that goes into making these things, there's more to making steel that blowing air through molten iron.

[Andronikos]

As for nitroglycerine, I read the Mysterious Island by Jules Verne, where he meticulously described how to make nitroglycerine just from the things you can find lying around anywhere in nature. Not hard.

That description is a little bugged. I have seen a chemistry olympiad whith that text and tasks were about small mistakes. But actually, you would obtain the products.

OTOH I see a bigger problem, the nitroglycerin is unstable and can explode during production or handling. With poor equipment aviable the probability of explosion only rises.

[Andy1984]

no, it doesn't have to take decades; around 10 years is feasible (heck, the japanese modernized their army in about 10 years). just show them how to make, and they'll churn it out. and training a musketeer doesn't take long anyhow, anywhere from a few weeks to a full year. compare that to a lifetime of bow and arrow practice. and its a great excuse to centralize government-the Chinese and seleukids would have loved it.

and accuracy is irrelevent-no one from that timeperiod would want to mess with a bunch of boys with "firesticks". and the range isn't that short (of course, if your paranoid enough, just rifle the barrel and you can multiply the range by 2 to 4 fold..and if you can support them with pikemen, even better.

as for armor: by your logic, musketeers in the 18th centry were a bunch of turtles-afterall, they fought each other with missiles:clown:

besides, I said specifically that I prefer to start in china: they definately had the means to train, churn, and use (and maintain)musketeers efficiently-hell, they used crossbowmen the same way :yes:

@satalexon: shooting each other didn't stop Qin from improving their weapons/armies* in RL, so why not a musket?

*hey, doesn't that take...listening, then providing the resources.
I totally agree with the advantages being offered by making warfare more expensive, the centralization of the government and the growing power of the latter if you want to be expansive in any area.

But your comparisons don't really seem right to me. You compared an ancient army to modern Japan (I assume you mean the early 20th century), which already used firearms or was at least comfortable with the notion of it. These guys had already instructors.

Why don't you compare with seventeenth- or sixteenth-century textbook (actually illustrations) telling new soldiers how to load their gun in no less 40 (!) steps. Even if you managed to drill tens of thousands of these men (you need them on different frontiers), you'll still have nothing that even remotely compares to eighteenth-century warfare. Simply put: you'll find yourself lacking in low-ranking officers who know how to use this infantry. By extra training this could still be solved though, although you'll have to introduce a weapon and a tactic on a battlefield that is so new, no-one knows the likely results. Your soldiers may lack confidence in their guns and prefer to use knifes instead. Your mounts might just decide to run away, as might your foe or part of your army. :clown:

Eighteenth-century soldiers are definitly not heavily armoured. But they were already equiped with weapons that allowed a small reload time, and fought in formations that were focussed on these smaller reload times. Gunfire became far more deadly than in the sixteenth century, making armour (still used to a great extent in the sixteenth century) obsolete. If you don't want to armour your soldiers heavily (or equip them with pikes, negating the bonus gained from using guns), you'll have to bring your army close to eighteenth-century standards, in weaponry, drill and tactics.

[The_Mark]

I'd team up with Archimedes to produce all kinds of superweapons and advanced maths and such, making Syracuse an impenetrable fortress (along with the rest of Sicily). If Roman hordes still get in, I'll pack up as much advanced tech created there as well as followers and migrate with them to modern-day Finland, creating a mighty northern kingdom - might take a while, but if find myself in 272BC I could as well as be immortal as well, so when the dark ages hit the rest of Europe, a great Finno-Greek civilization is ready to pour in and conquer the world.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I will BECOME the emperor, rather than serving a non-existing one XD. Even if it would be hard to make rifles (unless you would be able to make a proper rifled gun, you will have arquebuses, not so powerful and pretty short-ranged), our knowledged would be VERY useful.

[Atraphoenix]

I would be fortune teller and kings would start to beg on their future :laugh4:
and would tell all greeks to unite against rome then continue to kill each other again.:yes:

[Ibrahim]

I totally agree with the advantages being offered by making warfare more expensive, the centralization of the government and the growing power of the latter if you want to be expansive in any area.

But your comparisons don't really seem right to me. You compared an ancient army to modern Japan (I assume you mean the early 20th century), which already used firearms or was at least comfortable with the notion of it. These guys had already instructors.

Why don't you compare with seventeenth- or sixteenth-century textbook (actually illustrations) telling new soldiers how to load their gun in no less 40 (!) steps. Even if you managed to drill tens of thousands of these men (you need them on different frontiers), you'll still have nothing that even remotely compares to eighteenth-century warfare. Simply put: you'll find yourself lacking in low-ranking officers who know how to use this infantry. By extra training this could still be solved though, although you'll have to introduce a weapon and a tactic on a battlefield that is so new, no-one knows the likely results. Your soldiers may lack confidence in their guns and prefer to use knifes instead. Your mounts might just decide to run away, as might your foe or part of your army. :clown:

Eighteenth-century soldiers are definitly not heavily armoured. But they were already equiped with weapons that allowed a small reload time, and fought in formations that were focussed on these smaller reload times. Gunfire became far more deadly than in the sixteenth century, making armour (still used to a great extent in the sixteenth century) obsolete. If you don't want to armour your soldiers heavily (or equip them with pikes, negating the bonus gained from using guns), you'll have to bring your army close to eighteenth-century standards, in weaponry, drill and tactics.

well, China again offers a good place to start: their use of the crossbow, inasmuch as can be determined by the terrocota army, was similar to late 17th-early 18th century manuals: form 3-5 ranks, and have each alternate between loading, presenting, and firing. the only change is to replace crossbows with muskets. :bow:

this can be advantageous, in that if provided with bayonets/hangars, one can make pikemen*, in in use in china, obsolete.

as for armor, that's why I proposed that particular musket; its an 18th century british model, perfect for rapid fire. its also one of the more accurate models at the time.

as for preffering knives: we can have swedish style tactics for them: a bayonet can be fashiond on top as it was in the 18th century, should they feel uncomfortable with shooting (alternativley, a bayonet/hangar combo, as the british had before 1768). so you can shoot once or twice, then go in up close.

*well, not exactly a pike, more like a 13 foot pole with two short-swords, one on each end.

[ziegenpeter]

Yiieeeeeha! Sweboz are 2nd mightiest!
But I have to admit that I dont know if I'd spend my whole live in those forests. Especially so early (272bc!). Later on it would be far more interesting. But germania would be certainly the first place I had to check out.
When it comes to where I would spend my life it would be Alex, certainly. Considering I wouldnt live much longer than 200 BC this is maybe the most important and most exciting city in the known world... right?

[Aemilius Paulus]

heh didn't know about that, wouldn't recommend trying to make it though it's severely unstable stuff.
Unstable only if sudden pressure is applied. You do not think making grainy gunpowder is dangerous, much less testing it??


but nitric acid...where would you get copper nitrate from in 272bc? a better source of nitrate would be saltpetre which is much easier to produce given the technology at the time
Well, as I said, I only mentioned stuff that I already know. I know it would be easier to obtain nitric acid from saltpetre (think of the gargantuan guano deposits of Chile) but alas, I do not know how to make nitric acid from that. I only read about producing it from copper nitrate, especially since I already have sulphuric acid. But I can always read more, and learn how to make it from saltpetre!


i really think your underestimating the amount of knowledge and expertise that goes into making these things, there's more to making steel that blowing air through molten iron.
Well, duh, of course you are correct, but the "duh" is there because you are sounding as if you did not read both of my previous posts. I never said I knew how to extract and work with titanium and nickel. I just said I will try, and see if it works. I have no idea how to work with them. But I do know the Bessemer process though. I studied it :yes:

[bobbin]

Unstable only if sudden pressure is applied. You do not think making grainy gunpowder is dangerous, much less testing it?? Yes it is but raw nitroglycerin is much more unstable and much more powerful, anything around or above 30 C is extremely dangerous and its a lot more sensitive to knocks or friction.

ps.I'd imagine the scariest part of making grainy powder is the breaking up of the cakes, i certianly wouldn't like to be hitting a big lump of explosive anytime soon.



Well, as I said, I only mentioned stuff that I already know. I know it would be easier to obtain nitric acid from saltpetre (think of the gargantuan guano deposits of Chile) but alas, I do not know how to make nitric acid from that. I only read about producing it from copper nitrate, especially since I already have sulphuric acid. But I can always read more, and learn how to make it from saltpetre!
Sorry i was running on the assumption that you were back in 272bc with the knowledge you have at this point. As for nitric acid from saltpetre its pretty simple, just add sulphric acid, distil the products and voilà!

[Aemilius Paulus]

Sorry i was running on the assumption that you were back in 272bc with the knowledge you have at this point. As for nitric acid from saltpetre its pretty simple, just add sulphric acid, distil the products and voilà!
Ahh, thanks! Now I have extra knowledge!! Ah, Are you a Brit/Commonwealth citizen?

[bobbin]

Yep i'm from Britian, Scotland to be exact and I can tell you it pleases me to see someone use the correct spelling of sulphur! none of this silly "sulfur" business.:clown:

[APX]

Unlike Americans, I am a patient person, and do not want everything "fast" and "easy".

:dizzy2:

Excuse me? Generalization much?

[Snite]

Walking in the forest wtih the Sweboz. Since I think I'm roughly the average height of a barbaroi back then (I'm 5ft 8in) I'll fit in better than I would elsewhere though I would have no clue what they were saying it would still be fun. And I would hope that they have already adopted soap like EB says and if not, introduce it to 'em.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yep i'm from Britian, Scotland to be exact and I can tell you it pleases me to see someone use the correct spelling of sulphur! none of this silly "sulfur" business.:clown:
Yes, that and the fact you spelled "distil" with one "L" at the end, and not "distill". I also choose British English, despite living in America. American is a mere bastardisation, a dialect, deviating from the original and purer British English :snobby:, 1/2:clown:.




Excuse me? Generalization much?
A generalisation, and a true one. I do not know if it is too much or just enough, but I do know that Americans value quick and easy things perhaps overtly so. Just look at their inventions , e.g.: "drive-thru" restaurants, banks, vaccinations, medicine. The vaccinations clearly overstepped it, especially so due to their significantly smaller effectiveness (anywhere from 20-50% less effective)

[Azathoth]

Yes, that and the fact you spelled "distil" with one "L" at the end, and not "distill". I also choose British English, despite living in America. American is a mere bastardisation, a dialect, deviating from the original and purer British English , 1/2.

Who do you think you are, Lovecraft?

Vaccination? Seriously?

[satalexton]

@Ibrahim

Perhaps you could introduce them the steam engine first, I'm sure they'll be overjoyed.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Who do you think you are, Lovecraft?
Huh? Are you referring to my outlandish plans for improving Roman Empire? Then why did you quote that post of mine?


Vaccination? Seriously?
Yeah, just Google it... :no:

[Azathoth]

Huh? Are you referring to my outlandish plans for improving Roman Empire? Then why did you quote that post of mine?

Just Google it.

And I was referring to the part where you said that Americans invented banks, vaccination, and medicine.

[Ibrahim]

Yes, that and the fact you spelled "distil" with one "L" at the end, and not "distill". I also choose British English, despite living in America. American is a mere bastardisation, a dialect, deviating from the original and purer British English :snobby:, 1/2:clown:.

actually, taken from a historical perspective, American english is hardly a bastardization; if anything, one could make a better case for american english being "purer" than the british english of today: some southern dialects in the Carolinas** are the closest living dialects to that spoken by shakespeare*; almost all the dialects retain archaic features and terms (rhoticism being the most prominent), to varying degrees, and lastly, they are older than modern british english, which in only ~200 yesr old. most dialects in the US east of the mississipi, as well as canadian english, are anywhere from ~400 to ~250 years old. so no, pver schwa'd a's and missing postvocalic r's are not features of a "pure" dialect-just the features of one of many dialects. besides, I find the idea of "bastardized" and "pure" to be entirely pointless. am I going to go to an egyptian and tell him my dialect is purer because I use wala instead of yala?:no:




*no, I'm not making it up-they often pronounce things in an archaic manner: check this out: http://www.renfaire.com/Language/ . it is confirmed by wikipedia, and any entry of "great vowel shift")

**some, not all varieties.

@stalexon: yeah, yeah, when you lose you respond with petty jabs:clown:

[satalexton]

:clown: Yeah, it -can- be done...you're merely accelerating a process that happened during the Ming dynasty (silly Qing nomads and their obscession with HAs)

OT-ish: Can volleys of bolts, destroy a cavalry charge? How did the Seres do it?

[bobbin]

@Ibrahim

Perhaps you could introduce them the steam engine first, I'm sure they'll be overjoyed.

Steam "engines" have been around for ages IIRC the first known evidence of one is is the 1st century AD. It was considered a toy, for some reason none ever had the idea to use for anything else:wall:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

[satalexton]

the seres might use it =/ they already use natural gas to boil salt...

[Dewirix]

I'm still not convinced it's as easy as picking a side and then giving them guns.

Aside from the cost of mass production of guns, powder and shot and the military and social conservatism you'd have to overcome, once you managed to prove the concept how long would it be before your enemies developed the same weapons? Obviously this is more likely to be the case if you're fighting settled states rather than nomads.

Diffusion of weapons technology is certain to outpace imperial expansion, especially one that's reliant on siege trains and fixed infrastructure like gun foundries and powderworks.

In short, any advantage conferred by guns would be at best temporary and might be outweighed by the costs. In the short to medium-term, I'd imagine that you wouldn't field all-gun armies, but I suppose some units might adopt them.

As to the use of steam engines, I recently read Robert Allen's The British Industrial Revolution in Global Perspective. In it he argues that steam only developed because in coalfield areas of the UK engines could burn cheap, low-quality fuel and could be used to replace relatively expensive labour.

Everywhere else in the world had to wait until the engines became more efficient before it was cost-effective to use them. I would have thought that in the ancient world the relative costs of labour, capital and raw materials would mean that labour-intensive processes were preferred over those that needed investments of money or raw materials.

I think this is why they call economics the dismal science. It always spoils the fun...

[Cute Wolf]

I'd love to simply land myself on any steppe nomads, and create gunpowders and teaching them how to fight with guns and muskets. Well, the nomads are naturally better missile fighters, so I'd expect I could conquer the wolrd in 10 years with my "nomadic dragoon" army.

But I'd also love to land in Athens, and write several scrolls about Chemistry, Physics, and Biology, as well as maybe math...

Oh yeah, to create nitroglyverins, you'll just need a bunch of animal fat, boil them with ash, add some ammount of salts and then you harvest the thick liquid on the bottom, yeah, glycerine.

And about the nitrates, I'll go the nearby saltpeter deposits, and a big jar of redistilled vinegar is more than enough to made nitric acid. BUt hey... I'll start to taught them (either nomads or hellenes) how to create a good fertilizers first, and then made solar cells instead of oil based engines.



And at least, when I got bored, I'll just go to Barbaropolis with my dragoons and start shooting them. And yeah.... create a large, 5 meter deep, 20 meters square pit when a lot of Romaioi barbaroi thrown naked and free to run inside, while they become a moving target practice.

[bobbin]

actually, taken from a historical perspective, American english is hardly a bastardization; if anything, one could make a better case for american english being "purer" than the british english of today: some southern dialects in the Carolinas** are the closest living dialects to that spoken by shakespeare*; almost all the dialects retain archaic features and terms (rhoticism being the most prominent), to varying degrees, and lastly, they are older than modern british english, which in only ~200 yesr old. most dialects in the US east of the mississipi, as well as canadian english, are anywhere from ~400 to ~250 years old. so no, pver schwa'd a's and missing postvocalic r's are not features of a "pure" dialect-just the features of one of many dialects. besides, I find the idea of "bastardized" and "pure" to be entirely pointless. am I going to go to an egyptian and tell him my dialect is purer because I use wala instead of yala?:no:




*no, I'm not making it up-they often pronounce things in an archaic manner: check this out: http://www.renfaire.com/Language/ . it is confirmed by wikipedia, and any entry of "great vowel shift")

**some, not all varieties.
I was aware of that americans used some more archaic parts of the language but surely those dialects changed as much over time as british english did so the notion of one being older than the other is a bit of a moot point?

ps scots english still contains a lot of the old aspects of english, rhoticism being the most obvious.

[Phalanx300]

Well the Sweboz forests, I would fit in best there, maybe even have a chance to do some raids and get filthy rich. :2thumbsup:

Though I'm not sure whether I would get accepted seeing I don't really speak ancient Germanic it would be very hard to understand. Though I definately have the physical appearance of a Germanic more then any other.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

And I would hope that they have already adopted soap like EB says and if not, introduce it to 'em.

Although the barbarian soap was apparently a carcinogen :clown: but feel free, I'm sure it's better than covering yourself in olive oil

[Ibrahim]

I was aware of that americans used some more archaic parts of the language but surely those dialects changed as much over time as british english did so the notion of one being older than the other is a bit of a moot point?

ps scots english still contains a lot of the old aspects of english, rhoticism being the most obvious.

they chaneged since then, as do all dialects, but not nearly as much as British english.

and yes, I did make the point of age(and "pureness") being moot. language is never standardized; even in middle english we find one dialect pronuncing knee as "k-ney" while another has it "k-no" (damn I wish I were making this up)

however, the distinction between dialects is begining to die out, replaced by a "general american" accent, which is modelled on northern midlands english (western Pennsylvania, Ohio, northern Indiana), with western influence (on is pronunced "an" as opposed to northern midlands "oon" or "o-an*"). and the area round the great lake is also going through a "norther-cities shift", with changes almost as extreme as the great vowel shift.


*there has to be a better way of representing this:shame:

@Dewirix: even socially conservative society, such as the japanese in the 16th century, will adopt it; an awesome weapon is just that. and as I pointed out, the costs are actually advantageous for cetralized government, placing a premium on more efficient (i.e modern) government structures. In fact, when I get around to installing EB-alex.exe, I'll make an experiment with that in mind.

[Aemilius Paulus]

And nevertheless Oxford English is the world standard. Which is what I use, and which is what I learned since I was five, giving my speech the distinct flavour of accent as well.

[A Very Super Market]

The Tidewater accent is limited to a few islands around Chesapeake bay. All other dialects, be they British or American, are bastardisations.

[Fixiwee]

can you explain this then?

https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4155/newromeorder.jpg

Best post in a while here.

[Azathoth]

But the point is, how are you going to make those guns? The principle alone isn't enough. Then, you can't really mass produce them - the best you can get would be a stockpile of a few thousand primitive firearms after a couple of years.





however, the distinction between dialects is begining to die out, replaced by a "general american" accent, which is modelled on northern midlands english (western Pennsylvania, Ohio, northern Indiana), with western influence (on is pronunced "an" as opposed to northern midlands "oon" or "o-an*"). and the area round the great lake is also going through a "norther-cities shift", with changes almost as extreme as the great vowel shift.

What about the Brooklyn accent, buddy? :laugh4:



And nevertheless Oxford English is the world standard.

:inquisitive: Is it? Most seem to use American English.

[bobbin]

however, the distinction between dialects is begining to die out, replaced by a "general american" accent, which is modelled on northern midlands english (western Pennsylvania, Ohio, northern Indiana), with western influence (on is pronunced "an" as opposed to northern midlands "oon" or "o-an*"). and the area round the great lake is also going through a "norther-cities shift", with changes almost as extreme as the great vowel shift.
Interesting, I've always assumed that the american accent came from the dutch. if you've heard dutch people speaking english you'll know what i mean.



*there has to be a better way of representing this:shame:


Don't worry i understand what you mean:2thumbsup:

[Ibrahim]

Interesting, I've always assumed that the american accent came from the dutch. if you've heard dutch people speaking english you'll know what i mean.

nope-its basically english from the english:clown:

its, as I said, more archaic than modern british english, with modifications. general American is considered the "ideal" compramise between the dialects. the only reason its based on Northern midlands is because its the dialect with the most features seen as "compramise". the first dictionaries that show "general american" pronunciation was, not surprisingly, from Ohio, where northern midlands is anchored. the closest accent however to GA is in Nebraska/Iowa, since its the area where eastern dialects meet western ones.


What about the Brooklyn accent, buddy?

well, the brooklyn accent isn't from the great lakes now, is it?:clown:

and even it has been mellowing-though at a slower rate.

[moonburn]

i would be going to some tartessian beach and try to nail some nice casse or sweboz lady :embarassed:

or is that what i have planed for tomorrow ?

as for a living i would make a living out of being a priest of those nice fertility cults that people had around this area of iberia before those dude with dresses came :furious3:

[Ca Putt]

i would be going to some tartessian beach and try to nail some nice casse or sweboz lady :D definitely tomorrow :D

You know what I find interesting? that many people would really like to do the same thing as characters in fiction novels, just more violent and less Idealistic: Introduce advanced Weapons to "primitive" (for all nitpicks: there is a reason I added the "" ) societies(for fun and Profit). In literature the protagonists often just want to support their "good" king/Nobleman/Dictator/whatever at defeating the evil tyrant/dragon/wizard. Here It's far less idealistic. I mean isn't there anything really worth bringing back in time from our age? Is it all just weapons and war? why not smuggle a nuke back in time? and after all, is there a need for "modern" technology in the ancient world? sure a water pump for the fields is always useful so is sanitation and other things that make life longer and less of a fight for survival. If you're keen on technology go to a Greek poleis and build fascinating little things for fun and profit that's probably what I'd do. but to turn 272bc into 2009ad (ok more like 1500 but you get my point) and to conquer the world with Sci-fi Technology no, just as a funny yet feverish dream, not as a real plan. oh and before I forget I'd like to totally out myself as :hippie: :
I think I'd really like to live in a world just scratched by human civilization, thinking of being able to drink from almost every river, eating food without the fear of pesticides and hormone extras(I'll spare out the Gene stuff as this is to controversial) and all the other things a tree hugger likes to do, of course at the expense of probably being eaten by a wild Predator or stabbed by an equally wild group of bandits :tomato:
now don't get me wrong, It's not like I greatly regret being born in this period of time. every period has it's pros and it's cons If I was to travel to the EB time I would enjoy It's pros and would not try to turn it into the time I came from. I just don't reckon it a good idea to import modern technology into the past.

man considering It's not Possible to work time travels(Impossible as in a probability with far to many 0s) and Timeline stuff being nothing but theories about a problem that Is not even possible to have, that's a damn long article I just wrote :D I should go to bed.

Ps afteral It's all just a barbarisation of Ape Talk ;)

[Azathoth]

drink from almost every river,

Ew, animals poop in those.

There's a game called Darkest of Days coming out soon that includes a section where you can massacre Roman legionnaries with assault rifles and machine guns. :2thumbsup:

[Blxz]

@ Ca Putt: Time travel is actually impossible. Time is only a method we use to measure change. So we are in the same world in the same 'time' as everything in history. There is nothing to go back to....we are already there.

And don't bother going on about how 'time' slows down near the speed of light or near black holes etc. Change and the things we use to measure time (vibration of molecules) may slow down...theoretically because we have yet to encounter lightspeed travel or black holes.

But as for Aemilius Paulus, I love your idea. Sure most of it is very hard, and knowing the basic principles doesn't make you able to reproduce something neccessarily, but even if you could impart most of the basics there are many intelligent people (and many unintelligent) who lived in that time with nothing BUT (pseudo)science to do all day. You just need to lay the foundation, convince a few people, LEARN THE LANGUAGE and let them help you out. The technology we have nowadays developed slowly from the basics before that. If you can provide the impetus and a big jump forward and even a few idea's for future research you could have your titanium and nickel and computers and then make a version of Rome:Total war minus all the shitty limitations and historical inaccuracies....which is of course your long term goal in all this I assume?

[Ca Putt]

I would rather see time as a Dimension like length and width. oh but It is theoretically possible with a Worm hole but no one knows IF they really exist or are just a Theory. and leave alone to be able to control where and when you got to :D . so in other words It's possible on paper but will not happen.

and Time "speed down" would only work(if at all) to travel into the future without aging but that too is not probable to happen in the next few years.(or ever)

sorry if I missed the latest publication about this topic.

don't forget: there is Animal poop(and worse) in drinking water today as well they just don't tell you.

[Blxz]

don't forget: there is Animal poop(and worse) in drinking water today as well they just don't tell you.

I am interested in how the chinese managed to make soy sauce out of discarded human hair. Sure its disgusting and unhygenic now, especially when you consider all the menstrual blood they ended up finding in it before it the company maiking it was shut down, but could be a hell of a technology revolution for the future when we are all starving.

The legal tolerances for disgusting things in foods are scarily high, but it hasn't killed us all yet.

Edit: Also, all water in the world has gone through a set of kidneys or 2 before. Actually in any glass of water you are statistically likely to have at least 1 molecule that has been drunk by Julius Caesar in it. And for the Hellene lovers don't worry, there is also a pretty good chance that Megas Alexandros drank at least 1 of those molecules too.

[Andronikos]

now don't get me wrong, It's not like I greatly regret being born in this period of time. every period has it's pros and it's cons If I was to travel to the EB time I would enjoy It's pros and would not try to turn it into the time I came from. I just don't reckon it a good idea to import modern technology into the past.

One of the best features of our age is that if you live in some developed country, neirther authorities, nor social situation force you to live in some way. I you like nature, you can live in some distant place in a quiet cottage, if you wish to make career and money, you can, if you enjoy crowds, you can go to a large city.

I like your idea of seeking some untouched place in that period. But if had chance to travel to past, I would seek people. The eastern part of Hellenic world would be nice as was mentioned before, that interesting clash of cultures. But I would also like to unravel some mysteries (just of curiosity), to see for example building of Stonehenge, destruction of Minoan civilasation, why was Teotihuacan abndoned...


For Hellenic / Roman lovers: in every glass of water that that silly Roman / Hellenic lover drinks is at least 1 molecule that Alexandros / Caesar peed. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: (no offence; no flamewar please)

[antisocialmunky]

Considering that people willingly put worst stuff in their mouths and cups. I don't really think its so bad that food is 100% sanitized. -_-'

[KingDeath]

I try to smuggle a bunch of acricultural books with me, introduce windmills, new plows
and such stuff. Simply because acriculture was the base of every civilication until the industrial revolution ( except perhaps the italien merchant cities, but even that is debatable ) and therefore the ability to create more food = more people = more wealth = more power.

Then i conquer the world. :laugh4:

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Edit: Also, all water in the world has gone through a set of kidneys or 2 before. Actually in any glass of water you are statistically likely to have at least 1 molecule that has been drunk by Julius Caesar in it. And for the Hellene lovers don't worry, there is also a pretty good chance that Megas Alexandros drank at least 1 of those molecules too.
I will clone Megas Alexandros with the DNA that I find in the water in my kitchen then. Then I will conquer the present day world exploiting his military genius.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

The legal tolerances for disgusting things in foods are scarily high, but it hasn't killed us all yet.


Yeah, I heard they actually make legal restrictions on food toxicity so high that we'll all be killed by acid eroding our internal organs and the chinese will take over.

I know it's true, a scientist (well his title was dr, he may have been a fitness therapist) said so.

EDIT: ah sorry that sounds incredibly over cynical, didn't mean to be offensive, i was having a bad day :clown:

[Aemilius Paulus]

I will clone Megas Alexandros with the DNA that I find in the water in my kitchen then. Then I will conquer the present day world exploiting his military genius.
Too bad most of today's biologists-researchers agree that human chromosomes are so immensely difficult to replicate that cloning humans is either an enterprise for the far future or altogether impossible. I am more inclined to believe the former, as men of learning repudiated many things that now exist. In any case, scientific opinion is infinitely more valuable than mine.

And speaking of the molecule thing, that is horse-sheisse. Poor science there. Too much bloody water on this wet planet fro that to happen. The chances are small. Iskander lived a much shorter life than Caesar. Then again, he drank like ten Makedonians, which would equal about fifty Romans... No wonder the real Greeks looked down on Makedonians. No truly cultured person would do such thing to himself.

I have read more than I care about Alexandros, and most of his aspects, mainly in the end of his life, were quite horrendous and repugnant. He started out quite well though, but the inhumanly cruel and lengthy fighting in Central Asia, with those guerrillas moved something in his head (a Russian expression meaning he went a bit crazy), as much of his entourage noted.

[Azathoth]

don't forget: there is Animal poop(and worse) in drinking water today as well they just don't tell you.

Except it's filtered. And a few parts per trillion of anything don't bother me.


have read more than I care about Alexandros, and most of his aspects, mainly in the end of his life, were quite horrendous and repugnant. He started out quite well though, but the inhumanly cruel and lengthy fighting in Central Asia, with those guerrillas moved something in his head (a Russian expression meaning he went a bit crazy), as much of his entourage noted.

He was just a megalomaniac - nothing crazy about that. :clown:

[Aemilius Paulus]

He was just a megalomaniac - nothing crazy about that. :clown:
Oh no, it was far, far worse. More like a psychopath with stunningly shocking authoritarianism in the end. Just read any good biography of him. In the Footsteps of Alexander by Michael Wood is a good beginner.

[miotas]

Then again, he drank like ten Makedonians, which would equal about fifty Romans... No wonder the real Greeks looked down on Makedonians. No truly cultured person would do such thing to himself.

Pfft. Who needs culture. :idea2: I know! Maybe I'd head to makedonia and see how good their grog was.:beam:

[Aemilius Paulus]

Maybe I'd head to makedonia and see how good their grog was.:beam:
Pfft, got to my native Russia. Vodka is four times more effective, but without the coarse, sickly-sweet taste of the thick Makedonian wine. That stuff was mass-produced for binge-drinking, and not for its taste, so some odd connoisseur would come and savour its "goodness". Plus, after four cups of that unmixed wine, you will no longer care about the taste. Nor about anything else. That is the beauty of alcoholism.

[Azathoth]

Oh no, it was far, far worse. More like a psychopath with stunningly shocking authoritarianism in the end. Just read any good biography of him. In the Footsteps of Alexander by Michael Wood is a good beginner.

Really, is it that difficult to tell when I'm joking? Megalomania and delusions of grandeur (godhood) are often a symptom of mental illness (call it psychosis), and with a clown thrown in it's simply inexcusable.

You--> :embarassed: :whip: <--Me JK lol

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Pfft, got to my native Russia. Vodka is four times more effective, but without the coarse, sickly-sweet taste of the thick Makedonian wine. That stuff was mass-produced for binge-drinking, and not for its taste, so some odd connoisseur would come and savour its "goodness". Plus, after four cups of that unmixed wine, you will no longer care about the taste. Nor about anything else. That is the beauty of alcoholism.
So you want to make us believe the Russians drink Vodka for its taste?

Anyways, you do know the average dying age for a Russian male is 59 (fifty-nine!)?

[Whatever Scortamareva]

So you want to make us believe the Russians drink Vodka for its taste?

Anyways, you do know the average dying age for a Russian male is 59 (fifty-nine!)?

In part due to the highest murder rate in Europe (for a country)

[Aemilius Paulus]

So you want to make us believe the Russians drink Vodka for its taste?

Of course not. I was saying it is best to drink vodka, which is pure spirits and water, without any flavour (if it has a flavour, EU does not recognise it as vodka anymore) than the disgusting Makedonian wine, and vodka will bring you to the goal of Makedonian alcohol orgies much faster with less nastiness.

[antisocialmunky]

You could kidnap one of Alexander's kids. History didn't miss them much.

[Aemilius Paulus]

But why? Genetics do not have much effect on person's psyche anyway, and especially since his children were diluted by Roxanne's genes. Environment can produce a genius out of an average child. Smart parents producing smart children is mainly a sign of the smart environment created by the smart parents.

[Andros Antonius]

Hmm.. If I got to go back in ancient or medieval times, I wouldn't want to go to some isolated wilderness, because I can still find the same thing today pretty much. I'd want to be in a thriving city or center or culture. But the only problem would be travel. I'd want to see much of the world, including villages in the countryside, but it just took so long to get from town to town compared to today. So I guess you have to pick somewhere good because you'll probably be staying there for a while. I'd pick the nomad option though and try to finish a tour of Europe and the Mediterranean, and maybe follow the Silk Road to China if possible in a lifetime. I would only try to change the past with some crazy technology if it affected an alternate timeline and not our own. Who knows what might happen then.

Yeah but about those Roman cups, I'd also be worried about the lead in addition to all the other nasty stuff they had in their drinks back then.

Ha, and I'm not surprised about those Russians and their average life expectancy lol.

[antisocialmunky]

But why? Genetics do not have much effect on person's psyche anyway, and especially since his children were diluted by Roxanne's genes. Environment can produce a genius out of an average child. Smart parents producing smart children is mainly a sign of the smart environment created by the smart parents.

The Pashtun people have been holding off better armed armies since the dawn of civilization. That's not a bad trade. Maybe it would have replaced the unhealthy drinking part of Alexander.

And if by smart you mean alcoholic and overbearing... Sure, whatever. Just remember to kidnap someone from the Platonic school of thought and give him a cave to teach the kid in or however you want to Boys From Brazil this.

[Andronikos]

Iskander lived a much shorter life than Caesar. Then again, he drank like ten Makedonians, which would equal about fifty Romans... No wonder the real Greeks looked down on Makedonians. No truly cultured person would do such thing to himself.

It's hard to be a king. :beam:

Were the Makedonian orgias worse than Roman ones during imperial era? You know, vomitoria, gladiators killing each other before feasting audience and much more.


And speaking of the molecule thing, that is horse-sheisse. Poor science there. Too much bloody water on this wet planet fro that to happen.

Are you speaking about the probability of finding a molecule of water that was drunk by some special person in your glass? Well, it's quite easy math. The number of water molecules on The Earth is approx. 10^45, just calculate the number of molecules drunk by one person during life, number of molecules in one cup and how many cups do you have to drink to find one. The only mumbojumbo there is that you assume that the water has perfectly mixed since being drunk by that person.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If I would find myself in 272 BC I would ...

.. learn languages(Greek and Latin most likely) first few years in some small town. Then probably would move to Syracuse and warn Archimedes to get out of the city before the Romans come. Once that done I would head to Byzantion and try to take control. Would probably make some reforms and introduce new technologies(not gunpowder). If I can keep mayor powers and barbarian hordes away from the city then I guess after ten-twenty years I would have enough power to start my world conquest!

[Skullheadhq]

If I would find myself in 272 BC I would ...

.. learn languages(Greek and Latin most likely) first few years in some small town. Then probably would move to Syracuse and warn Archimedes to get out of the city before the Romans come. Once that done I would head to Byzantion and try to take control. Would probably make some reforms and introduce new technologies(not gunpowder). If I can keep mayor powers and barbarian hordes away from the city then I guess after ten-twenty years I would have enough power to start my world conquest!

muhahaha, why does everyone targets world conquest, I'd just go to Germania!
Cape Cervesiam!

[Moros]

I'd spend my days growing frankincense in Hadramawt. That and counting my gold.

[antisocialmunky]

How many wives would you get Moros?

[lionhard]

id like to roam the forests of sweboz and shag loads of blond hairy germans women and then use my knowledge i have now to destory the northern roman empire because they did nothing but make people suffer. I would then take rome for my self after recruiting a large army from the north and training them to better standards than the romans lolz :)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Umm.. There was Northern Roman Empire in history?? :inquisitive:

[Aemilius Paulus]

destory the northern roman empire because they did nothing but make people suffer.
Uh-huh. And the German barbarians always sacked with care, killing, looting, and raping only the rich and bad, leaving the honest folk aside. Yeah. Right. Ssuuuuurrree.

[Whatever Scortamareva]

I'd spend my days growing frankincense in Hadramawt.

or nutmeg.

[bobbin]

And speaking of the molecule thing, that is horse-sheisse. Poor science there. Too much bloody water on this wet planet fro that to happen. The chances are small. Iskander lived a much shorter life than Caesar. Then again, he drank like ten Makedonians, which would equal about fifty Romans... No wonder the real Greeks looked down on Makedonians. No truly cultured person would do such thing to himself.


Are you speaking about the probability of finding a molecule of water that was drunk by some special person in your glass? Well, it's quite easy math. The number of water molecules on The Earth is approx. 10^45, just calculate the number of molecules drunk by one person during life, number of molecules in one cup and how many cups do you have to drink to find one. The only mumbojumbo there is that you assume that the water has perfectly mixed since being drunk by that person.

Believe it or not you would drink 861729 molecules of water a day that were once consumed by Alexander the Great.

1.36*10^21 litres of water in the world

Alexander lived for 12013 days ( 20 July 356 BC to 10 June 323 BC)

assuming 3 litres per day was consumed on average gives 36039 litres

Then over his lifetime he consumed 3.9065*10^26 molecules (from FM of water = 18g and avagadro's number)

That gives 287243 molecules per litre. Now multiply by average daily consumption (3 litres)

Gives 861729 molecules per day.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Then over his lifetime he consumed 3.9065*10^26 molecules (from FM of water = 18g and avagadro's number)

That gives 287243 molecules per litre. Now multiply by average daily consumption (3 litres)

Gives 861729 molecules per day.

Yes, I know the mathematics too. So what? Too much hydrates in this world anyway. You large numbers may impress a random person, but anyone who sets aside more thought to this will see the folly. And no, I am sure as hell not going to prove my counter-point with a calculation to determine the quantity of molecules on Earth. The scientific notation will render it far too abstract to have a use in a practical, common argument anyway.

[antisocialmunky]

Don't multiply by avagadro's number so you get something meaningful.

[Moros]

How many wives would you get Moros?
four.

[Andros Antonius]

Yes, I know the mathematics too. So what? Too much hydrates in this world anyway. You large numbers may impress a random person, but anyone who sets aside more thought to this will see the folly. And no, I am sure as hell not going to prove my counter-point with a calculation to determine the quantity of molecules on Earth. The scientific notation will render it far too abstract to have a use in a practical, common argument anyway.

Yeah, I have to agree with Paulus. I somehow seriously doubt that all the water people drink on earth has passed through someone else's kidneys. It sounds crazy enough to be true at first but if you think about it, there's way too much water on the planet. And, while I'm not sure about this, but isn't new water even being created at the bottom of the oceans near the magma under the crust? Don't quote me on that, but I remember hearing about it on some show once.

[bobbin]

Yes, I know the mathematics too. So what? Too much hydrates in this world anyway. You large numbers may impress a random person, but anyone who sets aside more thought to this will see the folly. And no, I am sure as hell not going to prove my counter-point with a calculation to determine the quantity of molecules on Earth. The scientific notation will render it far too abstract to have a use in a practical, common argument anyway.

Sheesh...all i was doing was showing that it was statisically possible no need to be rude.

Hydrates? yes there's a lot of them but humans consume them daily so thats not going to stop the molecules getting in, not that it matters though the vast majority of free water in the world stays as free water for a very long time and doesn't get locked up in complexes(which isn't a very long term process in most cases anyway). No idea what your going on about with the quantity of molecules on earth though its not like the water is leaving in any appreciable amount.

The main factor preventing it from getting into your drink is the residence time in the ocean so obviously the number will be smaller but it still would be above 1 molecule per litre. I'm a fourth year chemistry student and spent two of those years studying enviromental chemistry as well so i do have a wee bit of knowledge on the subject


Don't multiply by avagadro's number so you get something meaningful.

Its how you do the calculation, thats like telling someone not to square the c in E=mc^2 as the answers too big.:dizzy2:


And, while I'm not sure about this, but isn't new water even being created at the bottom of the oceans near the magma under the crust? Don't quote me on that, but I remember hearing about it on some show once. Yeah it's not really new though theres a load of water in the mantle so some comes out during eruptions, crust formation etc. It is also taken down into the mantle at subduction zones but these processes are happening on geological time scales so 2000 years wouldn't be enough time to make a significant difference.

[Andronikos]

Sheesh...all i was doing was showing that it was statisically possible no need to be rude.
That's exactly what I was saying. It is only math and you asssume that the water that Alexander drunk has perfectly mixed with all other water on the Earth, what is impossible.



I'm a fourth year chemistry student and spent two of those years studying enviromental chemistry as well so i do have a wee bit of knowledge on the subject
Another fellow here. :2thumbsup:

[antisocialmunky]

Its how you do the calculation, thats like telling someone not to square the c in E=mc^2 as the answers too big.:dizzy2:

Eh, my bad. I thought that was gm/mol when its particles/mol. lol. What I meant is you should have just quoted 3 liters per day. Your calculations give no context for that number nor does it give the average person any sort of relatable scale so its not a very useful statistic.

Seriously, given the ridiculous amount of water on this planet, the chances are quite small even if you only count the water floating at the surface of the ocean that's gettign evaporated..

[grendelfreak]

Well i've found this thread sufficiently interesting that i have decided to de-lurk and have a crack at it. :idea2:


I figure the hardest step on the road to doing anything long-term will be actually getting a patron/ job where you could get noticed. I'm betting the major trade hubs would be the best spots to start looking, probably more Carthage than Rome as Carthage seems more open to new ideas than a people who considered higher thinking a corrupting foreign influence :beam: . Although the language barrier would be a fair bit smaller in Rome


And my first great re-inventions to greatness? The steam engine of course, with trains and steamships in mind. I figure Carthaginians would love a way to get stuff from A to B much faster, especially against the wind and to avoid those long walks across the desert to take back Cyrene from the Ptolemies.

There is a problem though in the task of re-inventing all the modern conveniences, in that although I know they exist and have a basic idea of how they operate or even how to make them, for the most I don't really have a real understanding of how to make a train or a steam engine or steel for that matter. You would need a team of experts, or as close as you could get to make the first working prototype on any one item. I suspect it would be rather like scientists in some developing country today trying to make a nuke without outside expertise or resources.


Once I have the funding of course I suspect it would be somewhat easy to hire some ancient geniuses or at least kidnap them (Anyone feel like a trip to Syracuse, heard there was a Greek good at math there).

However my real impact would probably be felt more in the social changes I would probably enact as my training has been heavy on Sociology, Social work, Anthropology, History (not a shock on this forum), and Politics. For example I predict Printing press leads to increased education leads to greater literacy leads to increasing middle class leads to moves for greater representation as well as further changes which if not careful leads to increased violence and if very unlucky the Shopet and his family end up being shot in a basement.

But more likely i'll i'll end up asking "What is best in life" and go hang out up north with the sweboz. :laugh4:

[Dewirix]

Well i've found this thread sufficiently interesting that i have decided to de-lurk and have a crack at it. :idea2:

Same here. I've always found these "What if..." threads fascinating, even if I generally end up arguing against people's ability to effect major changes quickly.



I figure the hardest step on the road to doing anything long-term will be actually getting a patron/ job where you could get noticed. I'm betting the major trade hubs would be the best spots to start looking, probably more Carthage than Rome as Carthage seems more open to new ideas than a people who considered higher thinking a corrupting foreign influence :beam: . Although the language barrier would be a fair bit smaller in Rome

I completely agree on this being the most difficult part. Even now, institutional inertia can present very high barriers to innovation, and I can't begin to imagine how difficult it would have been in 272 BC. At least in the present we have a concept of innovation being beneficial.

I shudder to think how many social and religious taboos you'd come up against trying to push through major changes in a timeframe that would allow you to enjoy the fruits of your labours.



And my first great re-inventions to greatness? The steam engine of course, with trains and steamships in mind. I figure Carthaginians would love a way to get stuff from A to B much faster, especially against the wind and to avoid those long walks across the desert to take back Cyrene from the Ptolemies.

Steam trains and ships would need high-pressure boilers and I'm pretty sure the metallurgy of the times just isn't up to building these. Rails also presuppose the availability of large quantities of steel, and you'd probably want that for your ships too ("Hey Sophet, I've got a great idea. Let's build a new kind of ship that relies on having a massive fire continually burning inside it!").

I'm still trying to think up quick-win ideas that wouldn't require too much infrastructure to roll out. So far I have:

Stirrups
Compass
Crop rotation
Germ theory of disease


I'm sure the Org can come up with others.

Does anyone else think this kind of thing would make a good AAR?

[bobbin]

Eh, my bad. I thought that was gm/mol when its particles/mol. lol. What I meant is you should have just quoted 3 liters per day. Your calculations give no context for that number nor does it give the average person any sort of relatable scale so its not a very useful statistic.

Seriously, given the ridiculous amount of water on this planet, the chances are quite small even if you only count the water floating at the surface of the ocean that's gettign evaporated..
Ah fair enough. The amount of water on earth is not the problem it's like Andronikos says the assumption that Alexanders water has mixed completely with that water, thats the deal breaker.


Another fellow here. :2thumbsup:
Good man!:2thumbsup:

Back on topic: Simple things like what Dewirix suggested would be the most effective, stirrups alone would have a major impact on cavalry warfare.

Sadly for most of us being dropped into 272bc with limited knowledge of the languages spoken we'd most likely be sold as slaves and end up shoveling cow shit for the rest of our lives.:no:

[Aemilius Paulus]

The problem with stirrups is that the enemy will adopt them quite swiftly, unlike gunpowder. BTW, guess what is the simplest way to get saltpetre? To dig under a pile of manure (animal or human). That is why saltpetre is called a shitflower. The crystals form under the pile of excrement.

[Dewirix]

The problem with stirrups is that the enemy will adopt them quite swiftly, unlike gunpowder.

Way of the world I'm afraid. I think you have to leverage your advantage while you have it, but don't plan on continued supremacy. After all, half the time you'll probably be putting down internal rebellions, so the troops you face will be armed in the same way yours are.

[bobbin]

The problem with stirrups is that the enemy will adopt them quite swiftly, unlike gunpowder. BTW, guess what is the simplest way to get saltpetre? To dig under a pile of manure (animal or human). That is why saltpetre is called a shitflower. The crystals form under the pile of excrement.

Urgh wouldn't like that job, although its still better that working in a tannery (possibly one of the worst jobs to be had in the ancient world).

[moonburn]

i think i would add 0 to the world

:suspanse:

seriously if archimedes did all he did in mathematical terms without a 0 imagine what he could achieve with the notion/concept that numbers can be mixed together easily broken or extended

actually the indian numeration (wich the west call erratically arabian ) is trully usefull

even today our numeration is nothing more then a 10 digit representation and in the old days each digit had 1 angle per number to represent them properly 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

simple and effective and you could build a financial empire not because you´re smarter but because it´s easyer for you to calculate the amount of interest you can charge more easily :help:

and back on topic the west was forçed to accept the indian numeration cause the italian merchants couldn´t use the roman numeration just as easily so they had harder times calculating the profit margins (when dealing with the arab merchants, thus many times loosing a few coins per deal that according to paretto theory on negociation is the worst thing you can since you give ground and your profit margins become smaller and smaller until you can get no more profit)

[antisocialmunky]

Economically speaking... You could also go back in time, manufacture heroin out of poppies, and become the richest man in the world.

[Macilrille]

Bah, there's no option for "Arcade Battles" in RL, either. Think the armor-piercing ability is overpowered in EB? Wait 'till you see its effects in RL!


https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/Frontline1944/th_falx_02.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/Frontline1944/?action=view&current=falx_02.jpg)

Anyone getting that much out of balance is :skull::skull:dead:skull::skull:. I like the Falx though, almost as much as the Daneaxe.

[Macilrille]

To dig under a pile of manure (animal or human). That is why saltpetre is called a shitflower. The crystals form under the pile of excrement.

That is how they got it, try studying the history of Blackpowder and early firearms...

[DaciaJC]

Anyone getting that much out of balance is :skull::skull:dead:skull::skull:. I like the Falx though, almost as much as the Daneaxe.

The reenactor said that he tried to let the falx guide itself as much as possible. I imagine that if he put more weight behind it and stepped a bit closer, he would be a little more balanced. Likely their biggest problem was getting the falx out of the scutum after the initial swipe.

[Ibrahim]

four.

sounds familiar.:clown:

[Macilrille]

Standing on one leg leaned over while delivering the blow = suicide, as is getting your weapon stuck. I think he suffers from the same misconception as almost any amateur that picks up a blade; that the harder you swing it and the more weight you put into it, the more succesfull will you be...

That is not the case, a blade is made for cutting, not hacking like an axe, not even a falx-blade. Even a Daneaxe is very effective at cutting, though it delivers deadly whacks as well.

[Aemilius Paulus]

That is how they got it, try studying the history of Blackpowder and early firearms...
Of course, how do you think I know that archaic method? By reading history books on the early production of gunpowder. From those books I know how to make all sorts of varieties of gunpowder, how to make it explode with horrendously loud noise, how to make it explode in colours, how to magnify the power of explosion, how to quicken the speed of explosion, how to make it resistant to water, etc. Most importantly, I know how to make grainy gunpowder, the most important innovation along with smokeless "powder" and chemical starters that initiate the explosion of the cartridge (the latter two belong to 19th century though).

They used that method with manure in the early stages of the history of gunpowder. In the later stages of gunpowder production, they mined the saltpetre, such as the vast Chilean deposits I mentioned I would exploit if I was to make a Roman voyage to the Americas.