Two questions

[Jxrc]

1. V&V (again)

I have just browsed through the V&V list at https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/MTW_Vices_and_Virtues

I spotted a few more than I have never encoutered after playing the game for about seven years …

Those would be:

Fine Leader He leads from the front, taking risks but gaining much respect and inspiring his men by example. +4 morale, +2 loyalty (Except for one Egyptian General in Early)
Great Leader He leads from the front with great courage, and all who follow him love him for it and are inspired to great deeds. +6 morale, +3 loyalty
Legendary Leader He leads from the front magnificently, inspiring awe in his troops and pride in his people. +6 morale, +3 loyalty, +10 happiness
Authoritarian He is quick to use his power to enforce his commands, and brooks no disobedience. +1 Dread
Autocrat He is firmly in control, and takes measures to ensure his commands are obeyed without question or dissent. +2 Dread (Except for the first English King in Early)
Secret Tyrant He values obedience and his own opinions above all else, and will not tolerate any dissenters, sometimes resorting to assassination to remove them. +2 Dread (Except the First English king in High)
Tyrant He insists on complete obedience and has been known to have people who oppose him killed. Not a man to be argued with. +3 Dread -20 Happiness (Except for on rebel general in High - located in Greece IIRC)
Despot He treats his advisors and opponents alike with brutal force. All who oppose him and many who he just doesn't like are arrested, imprisoned or assassinated. He is not popular. +4 Dread, -40 Happiness
Lawman He has shown himself to be adept at dealing with bandits and other lawbreakers. +1 Dread (Except for one Danish General in High)
Law Maker He has a talent for making and enforcing laws, making his territory an unsafe place for bandits or thieves to operate. +2 Dread
Man Of The Law He follows the law to the letter, meeting out just but harsh punishment to any lawbreakers. He is especially adept at dealing with banditry. +3 Dread
Organised This man's organisational talents inspire his followers to work harder, knowing that their efforts are truly purposeful. +1 Acumen, +10 Happiness
Highly Organised This man has a talent for organisation and getting the best from his servants and underlings. +2 Acumen, +20 Happiness
Order Out of Chaos This man's abilities are such that he could bring order to the chaotic depths of Hell itself! +3 Acumen, +30 Happiness
Sharp Mind This man's quick wits and sharp thinking make this a naturally quick study in any subject. +1 Acumen
Quick Learner Few areas of expertise baffle this man, once he applies his keen intellect to understanding a new concept. +2 Acumen
Rapid Understanding No subject is beyond this man's grasp, and he quickly learns the principles of any activity he chooses to study. +3 Acumen
Literate While this man's love of books is exceptional, it has also left him with a distaste for more manly pursuits. +1 Acumen, -1 Valour
Lover of Books This man's love of books has few equals, but his literary pursuits have left him with little time for warlike activity. +2 Acumen, -1 Valour (IIRC some Spanish General has this V&V late in the game)
Possessor of Books Many years of reading have given this man superior intellectual abilities, but sapped his taste for action. +3 Acumen, -1 Valour
Clever Assistants This man is aided in his day to day work by able servants, who carry out many of his duties very well. +1 Acumen, +10 Happiness
Able Lieutenant With a lieutenant to carry out many of his duties extremely well, this man inspires confidence just through his choice of servants! +2 Acumen, +20 Happiness
Right Hand Man This man's appointment of an able right-hand man was the best day's work he ever did. His lieutenant is an administrative genius! +3 Acumen, +30 Happiness
Faithful Servants This man has a talent spotting the right people and giving them granting authority and responsibility to carry out some of his duties. +1 Acumen, +1 Command
Delegates Authority This man has a rare gift to find good men and get them to work hard in his service, aiding him in much that he does. +2 Acumen, +2 Command
Gives Away Power This man has the ability to give his followers powers, but lacks the wisdom to see that some powers should not be given away. +1 Acumen, +1 Command
Scholastic Although this man's love of learning is exceptional, it is not matched by a love of the manly skills of a warrior! +1 Acumen, -1 Valour
Able Scholar This man's abilities as a learned man have few equals, but his time to study the practical arts of war has been severely limited. +2 Acumen, -2 Valour
Highly Learned Learning has given this man a taste for the intellectual, but at the cost of his physical prowess. +3 Acumen, -3 Valour
Frugal This man is careful when spending money, even to the point of not rewarding faithful service. +1 Acumen, -10 Happiness
Careful With Money This man finds it hard to say goodbye to any money, ever, even to the point of not rewarding those in his service. +2 Acumen, -20 Happiness
Mean Daylight has never fallen on the contents of this man's purse. His few servants have given up any expectations of consideration or payment. +3 Acumen, -30 Happiness
Has anyone spotted any of those on a green general (a.i. other than a historical hero or an initial king) ?
2. Provincial Valour Bonus
Is it possible to modify provincial bonuses without any editor by just modifying a text file ? If yes could you point me out towards the thread where that would be explained (looked in the apothecary but could not find an answer). I cannot download anything and would like to modify the useless bonuses for foot knights.

Many thanks in advance,

[caravel]

Has anyone spotted any of those on a green general (a.i. other than a historical hero or an initial king) ?
I can't remember specific ones, but many v&vs only start to get common once your empire gets much larger. "Hero" generals would be an exception because they come pre-programmed with their starting v&vs.


Is it possible to modify provincial bonuses without any editor by just modifying a text file ? If yes could you point me out towards the thread where that would be explained (looked in the apothecary but could not find an answer). I cannot download anything and would like to modify the useless bonuses for foot knights.

Many thanks in advance,
It is possible but cumbersome and error prone. You should try downloading the gnome editor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=120092) and open the crusaders_unit_prod11.txt file (back it up before you change it). Go to column 13 row 55 and clear "ILE_DE_FRANCE", save and close the file. Fire up the game and the provincial valour bonus will be gone.

:bow:

[drone]

I snagged those VnVs from events.txt and changes.txt. Just because they are present in those files doesn't necessarily mean they can be triggered in the game. I remember the fiasco that was the RTW VnV trigger file set, which fortunately could be viewed and fixed, unlike in MTW where they are hardcoded. MTW virtues and vices, one of the last great mysteries of the game...

[Jxrc]

I snagged those VnVs from events.txt and changes.txt. ...

Indeed it's underlined on the site. Sorry that I fail to mention it here.:embarassed:


Just because they are present in those files doesn't necessarily mean they can be triggered in the game. ...

Was just hopint that someone might have encountered one of the those in unusual circumstances ... Like "Frugal" and the like if you have a negative treasury for X turns, "autocrat" if you remove and assign titles a bit too often and stuff like that ...


MTW virtues and vices, one of the last great mysteries of the game... Unless if we manage to find the guy of realised that part of the game, we'll probably remain in the dark forever. At least, we can keep on discussing how a king can become a legendary leader for a while :laugh4:

[drone]

Was just hopint that someone might have encountered one of the those in unusual circumstances ... Like "Frugal" and the like if you have a negative treasury for X turns, "autocrat" if you remove and assign titles a bit too often and stuff like that ...

If you know how some of these VnVs are triggered, please do expand. I usually don't pay too much attention during the game to this stuff, and the wiki page is lacking that information because of it. :bow:

[Jxrc]

If you know how some of these VnVs are triggered, please do expand. I usually don't pay too much attention during the game to this stuff, and the wiki page is lacking that information because of it. :bow:
With respect to the possible explanation to which I refer in my previous post, I was just making it up. I have seen any of those vv appear except with historical heroes so that I do not have a clue about how they could be triggered. My guess is that the developers created those but had no time to activate all of them. I will only believe that they are active once somebody has posted a screenshot and explained how to get them. For other VV, I would say that most of them appear on a rand basis except for the ones such as good attacker and the like, retreats often, vacillator,not so bold, good runner, the ones triggered by the killing of prisoners, the killing or release of rebels. I am pretty sure that the killer instinct vv can be acquired but I am not sure what exact event trigger it. I have had a few general killed by a charge by the enemy general (if not by the charge at least very quickly) and in such cases I have seen the enemy general get the killer instinc VV after the battle. If I am sure that the AI general had not that vv when the battle started I can only try to guess the cause.
What I know on this topic is thus far from shedding any new light on the matter but if that helps you out I can try to suggest a few addition to the list of causes mentioned in the current list.
Have a nice week-end

[Knight of the Rose]

Many of the v&v's are triggered by empire size. How the rest of them work requires testing, and quite difficult to test properly as there are many factors in the game. I would love to do more of the MTW:Mythbuster stuff but RL is *very* buzy at the moment. Unfortunately

/KotR

[Jxrc]

I went though the lits of VV and completed as well as I could. You will find the end result attached.
Just did it from memory so that I might have made errors and forgotten a few things.
Please note that the V&V system was a bit different in the vanilla version (princes could appear with the "good runners" and become cowards without doing anything) and that thist list applies to the final official version of the game.
Did not try to edit the wiki page as I am sure I would just ruin it all ....
Hope it helps,

[drone]

Excellent, thanks for that! :bow:

[Jxrc]

No problem. By the way, I also have the document in Word format if that makes things easier for you ...

[HopAlongBunny]

Thank you! Very useful list.

[Jxrc]

If anybody has corrections to suggest please feel free and I will modify the document. For instance I am no longer sure how many provinces are required to trigger the appearance of the "corrpution" VV (philosopher, religious leanings, etc). I would say 40 but it's'just a guess. Likewise for the trigger for skilled defender, attacker, etc. I would say that both the forces involved (probably the quality is taken into account with numbers) and the losses suffered to achieve victory are taken into account but it's'just a hunch.Probably the criteria is the same as the one used when the AI decides to fight or withdraw so that missile units are not properly taken into account but it's'alos just a hunch ... If anyone has any firm data on the topic ...
If I can spare the time I will add references to historical charachters who have a vice that cannot be acquired. I know where I can find the list of historical heroes but don't know where I could find a similar list for rulers initially available at the beginning of each period (some of which have VV that cannot be acquired like authoritarian or secret tyrant). Does anyone know where I could find such document ?

[I of the Storm]

An amazing piece of work, very helpful, thanks a lot!

[Jxrc]

OK found the time to add references to all historical heroes with non-random V&V.
I included some of the initial faction leaders with such V&V but I cannot recall all of them in the High and Late period.
Also included a few notes in the introduction.
All comments and suggestions are of course welcome.

[Jxrc]

Found the time to add all V&V affecting historical heroes and faction leaders at the beginning of the early period. No exact recollection of the V&V of starting kings for other period so I just skipped it.

Unless anyone has correction to suggest, that's will be it for me.

Bye for now.