Preview: The Romani

[-Praetor-]

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.





Today, we are proud to present the mighty Senatvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs. In our first preview of this faction, we will give you a taste of the revamped offices that your family members will aspire to, if they possess the required aptitudes and ambition to follow the Cursus Honorum. Secondly, we will show you the new coloniae system through which the Romani will recruit their mighty legions outside their homelands, and bring conquered populations under the Pax Romana. We will show you some strategy map models that will be used to represent the major population centres for this faction. And for the grand finale, you will see some of the actual equipment used by the Camillan unit roster. However, we won't tell you which unit uses what; you will have to guess as to which helmet or cuirass corresponds to which unit. Finally, we will display a signature banner through which you will be able to show your support for Europa Barbarorum II.






Europa Barbarorum and the Romani team are pleased to announce an updated Romani office system, with improvements made possible by the expanded traiting and scripting capabilities of MIITW: Kingdoms. New features will include:

I) New offices: Propraetor and Proconsul.
II) Extensive player control over when eligible characters serve major magistracies.
III) Enhanced realism: candidates for major magistracies must be present in Rome in order be elected to office.
IV) Imperium: the offices of Praetor and Consul and the corresponding pro-magistries will be invested with imperium, permitting office holders to legally command Roman armies. Characters who do not have imperium and who attack enemy forces will suffer combat-related penalties.
V) Age-appropriate offices: this is for characters entering the game via adoption or marriage. For example, a character entering the game in his 40s will have already served as Praetor.

Roman Elections
In EB II, we will require characters to be present in Rome in order to be candidates for the offices of Tribunus Plebis, Aedilis, Praetor, Consul, and Censor. For each of these offices, characters will receive a trait signalling to the player that the character is considered eligible to run for election. If an eligible character is present in Rome at the beginning of the spring turn, he will be considered a candidate for office. The player will then be asked to offer support for each candidate by selecting him, though the player may only support as many candidates as there are offices. Characters receiving support will have an excellent chance of election, though success is not guaranteed.

Roman Offices
All Roman offices now have minimum age requirements. A few have undergone minor changes and we have introduced the new offices of Propraetor and Proconsul. The complete list of EB II Roman offices below describes the new offices and updates those carried over from EB I.

Tribunus Militum (Junior Military Tribune)
Characters will serve a year as Tribunus Militum between the ages of 22 and 26. Fourteen junior and ten senior military tribunes provided the senior officers of the four urban legions, reporting directly to the consul or legion commander.

Quaestor
Characters become eligible for the office of Quaestor at age 27. Quaestors serving in Rome were responsible for the aerarium or treasury, and those serving in the provinces assisted the consuls or promagistrates. The term of office was one year.

Tribunus Plebis (Tribune of the people)
Especially because the duties of the plebeian tribunes required them to stay in the city of Rome, EB2 will require candidates for Tribunus Plebis to be present in Rome in order to be elected. Characters must be in their early 30s to become eligible for this office. The ten tribunes of the people served for one year. They presided over the plebeian assembly, introduced legislation, and had the power to veto the actions of any magistrate except a dictator.

Aedilis Curulis (Curule Aedile) and Aedilis Plebis (Plebeian Aedile)
Again, particularly because these offices were served in Rome, candidates must be present in Rome to be elected. A character must have reached his early 30s to become eligible for this office, and plebeian characters will now be eligible for Aedilis Curulis. During their one-year terms, the aediles were charged with overseeing the temples and markets of the city of Rome and organising festivals and games.

Praetor
A character must be present in Rome to be elected Praetor. A praetor was responsible for the administration of justice in his province and had imperium, giving him the legal authority to command Roman armies. The praetor's term of office was one year.

Propraetor
At the end of his term, a praetor's imperium will be extended, allowing him to continue in command for two or more years. A character's imperium expires at the end of his term as Propraetor. A propraetor had the same duties as the praetor in addition to, or in the absence of, his replacement. The term of office of a propraetor was indefinite.

Consul
A character must be present in Rome to be elected Consul and must be in his later 30s or older. A consul holds imperium. The consul's chief duties in his one year term were raising and commanding Roman armies.

Proconsul
At the end of his term, a consul's imperium will be extended, allowing him to continue in command for several more years. A character's imperium expires at the end of his term as Proconsul. A proconsul carried out the same duties he had as Consul, usually when no new consul was assigned his province. The term of office of a proconsul was indefinite.

Censor
A character entering his late 40s may become eligible for the office of Censor, and must be present in Rome in order to be elected. The censors selected the members of the Senate, contracted public works projects, and conducted a census which determined a citizen's taxes and military responsibilities. Two censors were elected approximately every five years and typically served for 18 months.





http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/banthecoloniae.jpg




Roman Colonisation

The Romans, as they subdued the Italian peoples successively in war, used to seize a part of their lands and build towns there, or enrol colonists of their own to occupy those already existing, and their idea was to use these as outposts; but of the land acquired by war they assigned the cultivated part forthwith to the colonists, or sold or leased it.

-Appian (Civil War 1.1.7)

Coloniae
One of the most important features of Roman expansion was colonisation. As Appian says, a portion of a defeated enemy's land was often confiscated by the Roman state. Some of this land was used to establish coloniae (colonies), usually well fortified, located at strategic points, and intended to secure the frontier. Colonies required good communications with Rome, so coloniae were located on good roads; if a suitable road didn't exist, one was built. Until the early 2nd century BC, Romans who joined coloniae became Latins. By 272 BC, most of Rome's Latin allies were colonists, and probably made the largest allied contribution to Roman armies. In the early 2nd century, new Roman colonists usually retained their citizenship, but the coloniae themselves remained essentially unchanged. About 56 Latin and citizen coloniae had been founded by the end of the 2nd century BC.

Coloniae Militares
The advent of the professional armies of the late republic caused an important change in the nature of Roman coloniae. The primary purpose of colonisation shifted from providing frontier defence to providing for the secure retirement of the professional army's landless soldiers. The civil wars of this period required the recruitment of huge numbers of legionaries and consequently a large number of coloniae militares. Roughly 180 were founded from the time of Marius through the reign of Augustus. Of these, 70 were founded in Italy, but for the first time large numbers of coloniae were also founded abroad: in Spain (26), Africa (23), Asia Minor (14), Gaul (13), and Mauretania (12).

Colonisation of all types placed hundreds of thousands of Romans on originally hostile territory. Over time, these colonists helped to extend Roman control over the conquered regions they occupied. They also introduced the natives to the Latin language, Roman law and administration, and the privileges of Latin and Roman citizenship.

Coloniae in EB II
The colonia building will become an important part of the game for the Romani faction. The first level will represent the first colony founded in a region and higher levels will represent the foundation of additional coloniae.

I) It will allow recruitment of Roman factional troop types with a low replenishment rate.
II) The colonia will gradually increase the percentage of the city-state religion in a region.
III) Each level of the colonia building permits the city-state religion to rise to a progressively higher value.

Historically, foundation of coloniae was dependent on a supply of willing colonists. Consequently, coloniae will only become available for construction or upgrade periodically. The construction of coloniae will only be possible in provinces that already have a road or port.

Later in the game, when the professional army has been established, an unlimited number of coloniae militares will become available. However, it will also become necessary to build them in order to continue recruiting factional troops from any source. Coloniae militares serve as a source of recruitment for factional troops and will be the only source of recruitment for Evocatae.




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/banstratmap.jpg




[]Aba (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=36809) has been working very hard on some strat map models for the Romani. His first assignment were the Romani settlements, and the results are already astounding! Take a look at some of the models and skins he made for Europa Barbarorum II:





Town:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomanTown.png

Large Town:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomanLargeTown.png

City:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomanCity.png

Large City:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomanLargeCity.png

Huge City:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomanHugeCity.png

Detail of the triple arch in the Large and Huge City models.

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/RomHugeCityBeta04.png




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663142banequipment.jpg




We are very proud to show part of the amazing panoply that the Roman legions will carry into battle in Europa Barbarorum II. With this equipment, the Romani won over Pyrrhos and secured their dominion on the Italian Peninsula. They fought and defeated Carthago during the First Punic War, conquering Sicilia, Corsica and Sardinia. And they also subjugated Gallia Cisalpina, marking the decline of Celtic power in Italy. Will you repeat their historic conquests, or splinter their shields, shatter their armour and bend their swords as one of Rome's enemies?

However, we won't tell you all the information relating to these weapons and armour. You will have to guess either the name of the specific equipment, or its bearer, or both, in five different questions!

So, what do you get if these questions are answered correctly? Well, if the community is able to answer all five questions correctly, we will reveal an image showing the full panoply of a Romani cavalry unit.

And believe us, it is worth it!

Rules:

a) There is no need to be the same person to answer all five correctly (for instance, if someone answers I-III correctly, and someone else answers IV correctly, and a third answers II-V correctly, despite individuals having wrong answers alongside good ones, then the prize will be given regardless). The quiz is directed at the community, because the prize will be for the community.

b) Every person can try to answer all questions, but each person can only have one final answer for each question (for instance, you can't answer question X with "it's either a classical hoplite or an iphicratean hoplite"). In case of multiple answers for one question, your last answer will be considered your final answer.

c) You have only got 48 hours, counting from the minute this preview is posted, to guess all five correctly. If there's no success, you will have to wait until the next Romani preview.:grin:





Good luck!




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg




These helmets belong to a single unit that belongs to the Roman army of the Camillan period:

I) Can you guess to whom they belong?




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/133766314530689175.jpg

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg




These weapons belong to a Roman triarius of the Camillan period. We can see in the background the spear this unit uses, called hasta. But we also see three sword types displayed on the foreground:

II) Can you guess what the name is for each of those swords, as well as their provenance?




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663147124589625wip.jpg

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg




These shields belong to various Camillan units. A couple are round and heavy, made of hard timber, covered in bronze, and measure 88 cm in diameter; another couple are oval, provide superb protection from neck to foot, and are 107 cm long; and the last couple are quite unique: being round and relatively small, they are built of wood and covered in leather, and range from 60 to 85 cm in diameter:

III) What did the Romans call each of these three shield types??

Also, each of these shields types are used by different units:

IV) Can you guess to whom they belong?




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663149987452wip.jpg

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg




In the following image there are thirteen different helmets on display that belong to two Roman units from the Camillan period. The eight in the upper left part of the screen belong to one unit, while the other five in the lower right part of the screen belong to another:

V) Can you guess which helmet corresponds to which unit?




http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/133766315120587774.jpg

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg


This contest is now closed. Congratulations to everyone that tried their luck answering these questions. No one has answered all five correctly, but thanks to Elzeda, antisocialmunky, Andronikos and Alsatia, who were the first to answer the questions correctly, the prize will be given to the .org community.

The correct answers are:

I) Equites Romani.

II) From top to bottom:
a) Celt Shortsword, Celtic.
b) Kopis or Machaira, Greek.
c) Xyphos, Greek.

III) Clipeus, Scutum and Popanum or Parma.

IV) Triarii, Principes, Equites Romani.

V) The eight helmets in the upper-left = Principes. The five helmets in the lower right = Triarii.

Special congratulations are due for Elzeda, with 2 questions correctly answered, and Alsatia with 3. Antisocialmunky deserves a special recongnition, since he was the only one that answered question II correctly and with the precision requiered.

Here's your prize:


The Equites Romani (Camillan):

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/133766315227703162.jpg

And part of his equipment:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/133766315478452158wip.jpg


Credits to Martelus Flavius for the equites render and for the equipment screen.


http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg




We have got a new signature banner for you! Now you can show your support for Europa Barbarorum II styling a new Romani signature banner, made by Teleklos Archelaou.




Small banner:

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663157logoromani2small.jpg

... which you can use alongside the other two revealed factions' banners for EB II::

http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663159logomassylia2smallh.jpghttp://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663160logopergamon2small.jpg


http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/103/102569/auto/1337663144romanborder1.jpg






We hope you have enjoyed this preview of some of this faction's features and graphic art. And stay tuned, for this is only the first preview for the Romani! In our next installment, we will show you screenshots of Romani units in battle, and perhaps a bit more.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB II, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

Credits are due to the Romani team for this preview. We give special thanks to Atilius for the text work on the "Offices" and "Coloniae" chapters; []Aba for the strat map settlements skins and models; Tux, JMRC and Martelus Flavius for the unit models; Martelus Flavius for the unit skins; Teleklos Archelaou for the sig banners and this preview's artwork; and I Am Herenow for spelling and grammar correction.

We give special thanks to Imagehost (http://www.imagehost.org/), that provides us with a simple, foolproof, free and secure way to show you all these pictures.

Have a great day!

Regards,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

[johnhughthom]

The new office system sounds amazing, I had no idea that would be possible.

[Ibrahim]

AWESOMEZ.

them triarii and hastati will indeed get good helms today.

EDIT: you want detailed answers:

1 (and the last one)-the ones on the right are for rich fellows, like the triarii, and maybe a few principes. the ones on the left belong to the hastati, most principes, maybe the skirmishers and marian legions, and the irish. that italic one looks like he samnite helm on that unit, and the chacidian is fit for a hoplite (or italic version)

2-gladius hispaniensis, Falacata (that spanish hooked sword)/Kopis, and Xiphos/xiphos look-a-like. the middle one might be a khukri though :clown:

3-in turn stolen from flaccus' (wy type when you can cut n' paste?): III. The round and heavy is the clipeus, the Roman equivalent of the aspis, the oval and big is the Scutum while the round and small is the parma, also parma equestris.


4-the shield's that look like an asipis are for triarii, with the plainer version for some auxiliary (extraordinarii). the red shield probably belongs to a princeps or a richer hastatus, and the plain version of it must be a hastatus shield or lower. the round shield on the left looks like a cavalry ot skirmisher's shield, and lord knows what that bossed round shield is for, though the light infantry, like the leves might be users.

[Iron Fist]

Hell yeah, am I first one to read this??

[kekailoa]

Tantalizing...

[DaciaJC]

Marvelous work, EB Team. :2thumbsup:

[Horatius Flaccus]

Absolutely amazing!


IV) Imperium: the offices of Praetor and Consul and the corresponding pro-magistries will be invested with imperium, permitting office holders to legally command Roman armies. Characters who do not have imperium and who attack enemy forces will suffer combat-related penalties.

That will give some great roleplay scenarios!

As for the equipment: I leave that up to the experts.

[J.R.M]

As always amazing job...:2thumbsup:
I love u EB team! (not in a gay way)

[A Very Super Market]

Who woulda thunkit the Romans would be in EB2?

Great work as always, EB team. The clone armies were over-rated anyways!

[bobbin]

Really nice preview, can't wait for EBII!

as for the questions
1. i'm guessing Triarius
2. Gladius Hispaniensis from spain, Kopis from greece, Xiphos form greece

don''t know about the other three...yet.

[Ca Putt]

Wonderful finally worthy opponents :D :D

Sorry not an expert on romans but I bet there are enouth here to guess right.^^
II: Gladius, Falcata(Iberia), Xiphos(Greece)

III, Scutum? I only know what greeks would call the large round one(Aspis) and the long one(Thueros)

IV: O: Triari o: Leves 0: I've got absolutely no clue, maybe Roari :DD

[Apázlinemjó]

Wow, when EB II comes out I will pick the Romani campaign first, I guess. ;o

[Horatius Flaccus]

Shamelessly stolen from Louis XI on the .net forum:


I. They belong to the Triarii.
II. These swords are respectively, from top to bottom, the Greek Xyphos, the also Greek Kopis and the earlier Gladius Hispaniensis.
III. The round and heavy is the clipeus, the Roman equivalent of the aspis, the oval and big is the Scutum while the round and small is the parma, also parma equestris.
IV. The clipeus belongs mostly to the Triarii, the Scutum belongs to line heavy infantry such as the Principes, while the parma equestris belongs to the Equites and to light skirmisher troops, like the Leves.
V. The helmets from the upper left belong to the Hastati, while the ones from the lower right belong to the Triarii.

[Valion]

I LOVE THIS!!! It really does pay to love the Romani and with this i'l love the Romani even more mwahahah!

[-Praetor-]

Where's our prize ?

If anyone gives the correct answer, the acnowledgements and the prize will be given at the end of the 48 hour term. Any prior judgment (positive or negative) would be unfair to the others that might still wanna play too, isn't it. :grin:

BUT, while he might appear correct on all his answers, he might have one, two or all five answers wrong! Take a chance and say your own proposals!

[Andronikos]

Before me Horatius, but I don't have it from .net
I. agree with Triarii, they are pretty elaborated, show some social status
II. not sure, but some of the upper ones must be true
III. from unit descriptions O Clipeus 0 Scutum o Parma
IV. Triarii, Principes, Leves
V. Hastati, really the same as the first? I say Principes

[Puupertti Ruma]

Sweet stuff! Offices seem promising, especially the "must be in Rome to be eligible" part of it, and all the pictures look niiiiiccceee!! One question: if you have most of your FMs at Rome, will there be some benefits from this. I mean, in RTW, only one FM in a city could govern it, and the rest were more or less "wasted". Also, if not so, can a new appointed consul somehow travel faster to his province of choice?

And then my answers to the trivia:

I: I'm pondering between principes, hastati samniti and the elite samnite infantry:juggle2:. Well, I'll guess that they belong to the principes, and I draw my guess from the number of the feathers.

II: I'm not too good with ancient swords... uppermost is a italic short sword, the very same the Camillan Hastati use in EBI. In the middle is either greek kopis or machaira, or the hispanic falcata. As machaira is the only one not guessed yet, I say it's a greek machaira :). The lowest one I think is a greek xiphos.

III: Referencing from the EBI website, the oval is scutum, the round bronze one is Clipeus, and I don't know the round one. I guess it is a scutum also.

IV: The greek aspis (round with bronze) is used by the triarii, the thureos (long and oval) are in use by principes and hastati, and the last one is the most difficult to question I think... maybe the leves used it, so leves.

V: From the three feathers and the quite simple structure of the upper left, I deduct they belong to hastati. The ones on the lower right more expensive looking, with crests and other ornamentals, so I quess they belong to the triarii.

:edit: And I started to post my answers before Horatius "made" his.

[Christianus]

Yeeeeeeeees! Finally! Thank you thank you thank you! :D

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

EXCELLENT !!!
Thank you EB team for your great work.
EB2 will be the best for M2TW like EB is for RTW.:beam:

[Hanoeman]

Sounds great. One question though: do characters have to be present in Rome or in the current capital of the empire? It's an important difference gameplay wise.

[johnhughthom]

Sounds great. One question though: do characters have to be present in Rome or in the current capital of the empire? It's an important difference gameplay wise.

You change the capital? Sacrilege!

I'm well aware the capital was changed by the way, it was well out of EBs timeframe though.

[Hanoeman]

I'd never! But if characters really should be in Rome you can just conquer Rome as another faction and thus the whole empire. Or at least make it easier for yourself. Though I wouldn't know how the AI would respond without imperium. Would they attack less, not at all or put everything in recapturing Rome?

[Andy1984]

Marvellous :2thumbsup:

I: About the helmets: Given there are so many Greek-influenced helmets, I'd go for a southern-Italian unit. Maybe the pezoi Brettioi? (With the Apulian-Corinthian helmets for the commanding officers of the unit?)

V: this is mere guessing to me. Given te poor-quality helmets to the left, I'd go for a unit of rorarii for the helmets on the left. The ones on the right could be triarii-helmets.

[Alsatia]

Look absolutely Stunning!

I - Triarii
II - Gladius Hispanesis - Spain, Xyphos - Greece
III - Clipeus, Scutum, Parma
IV - Triarii, Principes/Hastati, Equites
V - Principes and Triarii

[Phalanx300]

Awesome, and I guessed correct at the Romani being previewed. I gues some Germanics are next. Can't wait to see the new Spartans in the future though. :2thumbsup:


Ok guys, for that picture we have to play it smart, if we all name different units then we will definately get it! Its dirty but it gets the job done. :clown:


I) Can you guess to whom they belong?

Mmm, there are some expensive looking helmets in there so its probably not a unit of a low social class. And it cleverly says part of the Romani army so I'd go for the Pedites Extraordinarii .


II) Can you guess what the name is for each of those swords, as well as their provenance?

First, I'd go with Pugio seeing that hasn't been set yet. :clown: For the other two I'd have no idea how they would be called in Latin.


III) What did the Romans call each of these three shield types??

The oval one is a Scutum, the other two I wouldn't know.


IV) Can you guess to whom they belong?

For the round one I will go with the Pedites Extraordinarii again, since they haven't been named. The Scutum, I'll go for the Rorarii, same reason. The smaller oner I'd go with Eqvites Romani.


V) Can you guess which helmet corresponds to which unit?

To the left I go with Hastati Samnitici. To the right I'll go with Eqvites Extraordinarii .

Remember guys if we want to see that picture we have to play it smart. :clown:

[Horatius Flaccus]

Yep, that's why I posted those suggestions from the .net, so that nobody would guess the same. :juggle2:

[Vasiliyi]

Wow, excellent work. They will be a worthy foe indeed! :2thumbsup:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Man, EBII is going to be so ******* awesome!

[Azathoth]

Can't wait to make some badass Roman battle movies with the fly MT2W Cinematic Editor.

[Perturabo]

In my opinion one of the greatest single achievements of EB1 was to make the Roman faction interesting and playable after the horror of the Vanilla Ninjas.

This looks like the whole concept is going to a totally new level somewhere in the stratosphere.

Can't believe this, but i'm actually really looking forward to playing the Romani :2thumbsup:

[Atilius]

One question: if you have most of your FMs at Rome, will there be some benefits from this...Not really. But in testing so far, Rome doesn't get terribly overcrowded. Only the praetor urbanus, aediles, and plebeian tribunes need to be in Rome, though there may be an influx of the next year's office seekers arriving toward the end of the year.


Also, if not so, can a new appointed consul somehow travel faster to his province of choice?An EB member suggested this some time ago. We have not yet decided to do it. We currently compensate for (normal) slow movement by automatically extending the consul's imperium for several years.


do characters have to be present in Rome or in the current capital of the empire?Currently the system requires them to be in Rome. We've considered the possibility of holding elections in the capital, but haven't determined if it's feasible yet. We see no real need to change it: the AI doesn't have the same restrictions as the player, and the player should never really lose Rome. However, if we can make it work without too much trouble, we will.

[antisocialmunky]

V - Helmets:
-Top 8 belong to Triarii or a equestrian unit. Though if the Italo-Corinthian helmet is for the officer, then it would probably be Principes.
-Bottom 5 belong to one of the Italian allied units. If its one from EBI, it might be Pedites Extraordinarii since Samnites would probably use a similar combo to the Romans ones. Its clearly a heavily greek influenced unit. Perhaps some sort of Italian Hoplite.

[Elzeda]

Was the iberian sword really adopted by romans during the camillan period?

As for my guesses

I. I'd go for Equites

IV. I don't know much bout their names. My guesses would be, the first one goes to Equites, second one goes to Hastati and third goes to Rorarii

V. I'd go for Principes for the top left set and bottom right to Triarii

Wild guesses, but that's better than not trying i guess.

[paullus]

since i kinda want people to see the bonus pic, i'll point out that you haven't gotten the first question right. y'all also haven't *quite* identified the first sword, and i could be wrong, but i don't think we've seen question 5 answered correctly yet.

edit: might have taken too long making this post...2 minutes too long

[antisocialmunky]

Someone already said the Xiphos for the top one. Its not a gladius hispanicus since they weren't in Spain yet... That leaves a Celtic Sword - the only thing I can see as eluding to that is the concave hilt... Dunno any names for the thing though. The gladius deisgns end up with a flat semi-circle hilt.

One of these:
http://swordsandarmor.com/images/SD901055-BK_Celtic_Sword.JPG

The second one looks more like a Makhaira than a Kopis because of how the blade flairs out at the hilt rather than narrow. But they are both fairly similar.

The bottom one is definitely a xiphos.

[bobbin]

for question 5 i'd say the upper helmets belong to the Samnite Milites and the lower ones to the trarii.

[delablake]

All hail the EB team!:2thumbsup:

[bobbin]

Some questions abot the preview
1. You say that the coloniea will allow the recriutment of factional troops, will this just be limited to italia?
2. what will govern when we could build one? is it like the guild buildings in M2TW?
3.
it will also become necessary to build them in order to continue recruiting factional troops from any source. not sure what this sentence is saying, does it just mean that come the marian reforms we have to build them to get marian troops?
4. Will the SPQR's city state religion change when the imperial reforms happen?

[Skullheadhq]

Ah, great work on the city models! I love 'em!

[Bucefalo]

I can´t believe how awesome will be this mod, the level of detail and care of every aspect is just ashtounding. Amazing, as usual.

All hail the EB team. :bow:

[darius_d]

I: the helmets perhaps belong to Eqvites Extraordinarii - richly ornamented, most notably Attico-Phrygian, I think I saw it as historical source for italic unit in other mod.

Excellent preview :2thumbsup:
I appreciate proconsul and propraetor offices, they will allow a FM to keep command over legions if his consul or praetor title expires. Very good move.
Thus I do not support accellerating movement points to Rome for elections, at least not for beta.

As for coloniae my guessing is they will be represented by PSF.

As for cities I hope no more obligatory wooden walls, besides - will all the cities look in the battle map in that simple manner with 2 main streets crossing in the middle?

[Atilius]

1. You say that the coloniea will allow the recriutment of factional troops, will this just be limited to italia?No. The Romans colonized Narbo Martius in 114 BC, so we would certainly allow them to be built in southern Gaul. Ideally, we'd set no restrictions but make it advantageous to colonize Italy before doing so elsewhere.

2. what will govern when we could build one?Just the passage of time. A colony building or upgrade would be available roughly every five years.

3. ...does it just mean that come the marian reforms we have to build them to get marian troops?You'll need to build coloniae militares in proportion to the number of Marian troops you recruit or recruitment will be turned off until you build more military colonies.

4. Will the SPQR's city state religion change when the imperial reforms happen?No.

[Blxz]

The first post talks about there being many (did I see the word dozens somewhere?) people for each job. How does this work? Does the number increase as the empire expands? Or did I misread and it will only ever have one praetor, 1 consul, etc. at a time, or can I have 2 consuls, multiple praetors, etc. at the same time as per history?

I just wonder what stops you from swimming in people with offices when i only have Italia, and then how do I manage if I only have like 3 guys with Imperium (which could well expire) when i control their historic empire? I just wonder at the triggers/traits you use to control this.

All this realism makes my micro-management nerves cry. But even so, looks good. I love new updates.

[Andronikos]

and then how do I manage if I only have like 3 guys with Imperium (which could well expire) when i control their historic empire?

It was said, that they get penalty when attacking, not defending, so perhaps it allows you to deffend, but slows your expansion.

[Christianus]

So, to put it short:

Only the characters with "Imperium" can command armies at all? (except getting heavy penalties)

[to6ko]

Thank you for the hard work i hope you'll keep doing it Roma Aeterna

[Atilius]

Does the number increase as the empire expands? Or did I misread and it will only ever have one praetor, 1 consul, etc. at a time, or can I have 2 consuls, multiple praetors, etc. at the same time as per history?You will never have more than two consuls. Early in the game you'll have no more than one praetor. As you expand you'll get more praetors, and characters whose terms as praetor and consul expire will retain the Imperium for several more years as propraetor or proconsul.



Only the characters with "Imperium" can command armies at all? (except getting heavy penalties)

Only the characters with the Imperium can attack without penalties.

[-Praetor-]

Congratulations to everyone that tried their luck answering these questions. No one has answered all five correctly, but thanks to Elzeda, antisocialmunky, Andronikos and Alsatia, who were the first to answer the questions correctly, the prize will be given to the .org community.

Special congratulations are due for Elzeda, with 2 questions correctly answered, and Alsatia with 3. Antisocialmunky deserves a special recongnition, since he was the only one that answered question II correctly and with the precision requiered.

Here's your prize:


The Equites Romani (Camilian):

https://a.imagehost.org/0490/27703162.jpg

And part of his equipment:

https://a.imagehost.org/0948/78452158wip.jpg

Credits to Martelus Flavius for the equites render and for the equipment screen.

[socal_infidel]

That is a gorgeous unit. The attention to detail is just really top-notch.

How many face/body/helmet/shield variations can we expect with this unit out of curiosity?

[Phalanx300]

A very nice unit! :2thumbsup: The Italian Bronze armour is pretty interesting, this difercity will really make things look better.

[antisocialmunky]

Thanks guys. Who did the facial modelling/texture? Its absolutely great.

[Elzeda]

Now that just made my day ! :beam:

Triple cheers to the EB team !:smash::smash::smash:
Awesome job as always:2thumbsup:

[paullus]

Martelus did it, and he's brilliantly good with faces--that guy just looks like a hardened Roman. You should also see the face models that have recently been created, suffice to say they feature unparalleled detail.

[Azathoth]

I estimate that the shield he is holding is 60-70 centimeters in diameter.

[Skooma Addict]

Excellent preview as always. The EB team has just made waiting for this mod even more painful. >_<

[etipac]

Great work, can't wait to see more just like all of us... Maybe a video of the Romani would do in the next update. ;-)

Kepp up the good job!!!

Etienne

[JMRC]

That is a gorgeous unit. The attention to detail is just really top-notch.

How many face/body/helmet/shield variations can we expect with this unit out of curiosity?

Martelus could tell you exactly, but I can say that he took the diversity aspect to an high level, so it will be very hard to see 2 exactly looking Equites in the same battle, even if you have hundreds of them.

[Skullheadhq]

Whoah, this unit is...coolness personified!

[Kongeslask]

Is that tunic dyed green or merely undyed cloth with a greenish tinge? Just asking because the current Camillan units all seem to have grey-white undyed wool tunics.

[Martelus Flavius]

That is a gorgeous unit. The attention to detail is just really top-notch.

How many face/body/helmet/shield variations can we expect with this unit out of curiosity?

Variations are expressed via the following equation :

2c*5a*5[heads]*2[Footwear]*6b*2[Swords]*4[Shields] = 4800 possible combinations.

And thanks guys! Glad you like him! :grin:

Regards

Martelvs

[antisocialmunky]

Cool, those faces are perfect. Its nice to have a more realistic beefy looking guy rather than those 10 head tall ideal model RTW ones.

Can't wait for a HD video(If you need to fraps any massive 3v3 huge battles on the highest quality graphics for a upcomning preview, I'll be happy to do it for you.) :-D

BTW - is there a name for the celtic sword?

[darius_d]

The Equites Romani (Camilian):

https://a.imagehost.org/0490/27703162.jpg


I have nothing against unit cards to be composed in a fashion similar to this one. This gesture of him holding the helment in hand and his head uncovered - rocks.:smash:

[Phalanx300]

I have nothing against unit cards to be composed in a fashion similar to this one. This gesture of him holding the helment in hand and his head uncovered - rocks.:smash:

The unit cards are also going to be with them standing on a piece of land, like Sweboz units standing in the snow.

And yeah, a unit standing like that or marching would look great on a unit card. :2thumbsup:

[Skullheadhq]

Yeah, Is that possible, Soldiers marching on the unit card?

[XSamatan]

Great Models and city pics!! CA should hire you (but AFTER you finished EB II!!!)

Some questions to the elections:

1. as mentiond above, there are thoughts to increase movement for candidates, as it could be very enerving to move your FM anytime to Rome and have due to this a lack of offensive power at the frontier. Can you go in detail here?

2. Historically, in times of great need the Romans elected a "dictator", could that be integrated? (Maybe with triggers like, so and so many cities besieged, some FM died in battle or lost battles in the last round)

3. With the end of the 2.century BC and the upcoming of marius and the "Gracchen", it came common to elect people even if they were not in Rome (Sulla and Ceasar as example) Would an implemention screw up the rest? Or maybe implement it after Rome became a superpower?

4.at last:
I want to play NOW!!!!

[Ca Putt]

wow that's one great shot, and extra credit for the face, he really looks very roman although he wears a lino thorax.

[-Praetor-]

First post updated with the correct answers and the prize.

[Atilius]

1. as mentiond above, there are thoughts to increase movement for candidates, as it could be very enerving to move your FM anytime to Rome and have due to this a lack of offensive power at the frontier. Can you go in detail here?There are no plans to increase the movement points of candidates for office. We are considering raising movement points for newly-elected consuls.


2. Historically, in times of great need the Romans elected a "dictator", could that be integrated?We've considered this, but it was very rare for a dictator to be appointed (they were not elected) to army commands in our time period. There are only three cases from 272 BC to 216 BC: in 249 (A. Atilius Calatinus), 217 (Q. Fabius Maximus), and 216 (M. Iunius Pera). The office was not filled again until Sulla forced the Senate to give it to him in 82 BC. Because of the short term of office, and the fact that the player is very unlikely to find himself in such a desperate position as the Romans were in 217 and 216, there really is very little point to creating such an office in EB2. We still may find a use for it if Italy is under serious threat or during the period of the civil wars.


3. With the end of the 2.century BC and the upcoming of marius and the "Gracchen", it came common to elect people even if they were not in Rome (Sulla and Ceasar as example)Election of consuls who were not present in Rome was never common. Sulla held the office twice (88 and 80 BC) and was in Rome for elections both times. Caesar was most certainly in Rome when elected to his first term as consul in 59 BC. I'm less certain where he was immediately before his remaining 4 terms (48, 46, 45, and 44 BC), but after returning from Gaul in 48 BC his control over the Roman state was absolute and the fact that he held the office was a formality.

Consuls were occasionally elected while absent from Rome. However, it happened most often during the 2nd Punic war (with Italy under threat) when a candidate currently leading an army could not be spared without endangering the conduct of the war.

Our election mechanics can't take into account every unusual situation that took place over almost 3 centuries. We've tailored the system to faithfully reproduce Roman elections in normal operation.

[Hax]

And these are only the Camillans. Imagine, imagine...

[antisocialmunky]

The face looks familiar. Did you use an actor as a facial ref?

[Phalanx300]

And these are only the Camillans. Imagine, imagine...

Yes, the Polybian will probably be with less Greek oriented designs. Not sure which one of the two I will like more though, I prefer them both with the legionairies. :2thumbsup:

[moonburn]

pretty amazing :inquisitive:

[joten555]

Was the face based on M A Agrippa's, or T F Vespasian's? It looks familiar, like an actor's, but I can not remember where I have seen it.

Great Job.

[Cartaphilus]

Awesome preview as usual.

The office system will be a great thing, and make a roman campaign more interesting yet.

[darius_d]

2. Historically, in times of great need the Romans elected a "dictator", could that be integrated?

We've considered this, but it was very rare for a dictator to be appointed (they were not elected) to army commands in our time period. There are only three cases from 272 BC to 216 BC: in 249 (A. Atilius Calatinus), 217 (Q. Fabius Maximus), and 216 (M. Iunius Pera). The office was not filled again until Sulla forced the Senate to give it to him in 82 BC. Because of the short term of office, and the fact that the player is very unlikely to find himself in such a desperate position as the Romans were in 217 and 216, there really is very little point to creating such an office in EB2. We still may find a use for it if Italy is under serious threat or during the period of the civil wars.


I strongly support dictator being available, it was a very important instrument of roman power system. EB is all about alternative history after all. Any succesful invasion in Italy would miss sth special without dictator taking over Rome's power.

[antisocialmunky]

I strongly support dictator being available, it was a very important instrument of roman power system. EB is all about alternative history after all. Any succesful invasion in Italy would miss sth special without dictator taking over Rome's power.

This. It would also be nice to do something for post Marian so the instability of the late republic can be simmed with people trying to seize power. Perhaps if an Ambitious character becomes dictator, you can have an option of not giving it up and causing severe loyalty problems with FMs that have different politics. Would be nice to figure out a way to cause mass rebels like spawning rebel diplomats and giving them 1 billion mnai.

[Skullheadhq]

This. It would also be nice to do something for post Marian so the instability of the late republic can be simmed with people trying to seize power. Perhaps if an Ambitious character becomes dictator, you can have an option of not giving it up and causing severe loyalty problems with FMs that have different politics. Would be nice to figure out a way to cause mass rebels like spawning rebel diplomats and giving them 1 billion mnai.

With a bodyguard of 24 lictores

[miotas]

there are thoughts to increase movement for candidates, as it could be very enerving to move your FM anytime to Rome and have due to this a lack of offensive power at the frontier.

We could move our FM's straight to rome using the move character cheat. In M2TW you can type "this" instead of "charcter name" to indicate the selected character rather than trying to get the proper name to work. Don't shoot, it's just a suggestion :surrender:

[antisocialmunky]

Fulsi mihi sursum, Scotty?

[Celtic_Punk]

I may actually play the Romani now! THANKS EB!

[Martelus Flavius]

The face looks familiar. Did you use an actor as a facial ref?

No, I did not! ;-) It is the most aged face, and probably the most "roman looking" of the whole Equites.


Yes, the Polybian will probably be with less Greek oriented designs. Not sure which one of the two I will like more though, I prefer them both with the legionairies. :2thumbsup:

Actually, this is very likely that some of the Polybians still have a greek equipment, especially in the higher "class" soldiers. But in the overhall they will be more "Celtic-Influenced". (Which means I'll have to learn to skin mail chain... :clown:)

Concerning the units cards... Hum well, you'll see by yourself! :yes:

And thanks! Glad you like the guy! :grin:

Regards

Martel

[APX]

Looks amazing! But I hope the strat map models aren't too high poly...

[Iskander 3.1]

Wow, this made my day. Keep up the great work, gentlemen :thumbsup:

[CaesarAugustus]

Another preview!! I am looking forward to playing the new and improved Romani in EB2, but am a little concerned about the distances to be traveled to get certain offices (included those needed to have imperium)... it seems that generals will spend more time traversing the map than fighting. That being said, I have complete faith in the team and understand that this has probably all been worked out in beta testing already, so keep up the good work!! :) And thank you for the regular previews, as the previous poster said, this made my day :rtwyes:

Oh and a question about the coloniae system, will the (limited) amount of coloniae be able to be established in any area, allowing for the recruit of Camillan and Polybian units outside of Italy?

[Macilrille]

Ye Gods...

Cursus Honorum actually happening!

Coloniae integrated...

Ooooohhhhh get it out NOW!!!

If you need help with Sweboz, I might be able to provide some.

[Atilius]

will the (limited) amount of coloniae be able to be established in any area, allowing for the recruit of Camillan and Polybian units outside of Italy?There are no plans to restrict the construction of coloniae to Italy, though the Romans founded none outside that area until the late 2nd century BC.

[Cartaphilus]

Maybe it's possible to limit the coloniae to Italia till the 2nd century.

[Elzeda]

Or until a certain reform, as it is right now in EB1 for MICs.

[bovi]

Both of these are possible I believe.

[Antonivs Silvicola]

This looks absolutely amazing! Having to be present in Roma for election to certain offices is a great step toward more realism. I will be getting a new ultra computer early next year so I cannot wait for this to come out. Keep up the wonderful work EB team. Major kudos!:2thumbsup:

[Blxz]

Limiting the colony's to italy is great for realism, BUT the EB team has also upheld a policy of setting history out as how it was in 272BC and only limiting things that would have been highly unhistorical. I would hope that you wouldn't limit the colony construction based on date or reform, it would leave a bit of freedom for the player to expand at whatever speed they choose and in whichever direction they choose.

I personally would enjoy the game more the fewer restrictions you place on events taking place...within reason.

[SwissBarbar]

Great Preview again, but I miss more Pics of important units, like you did it in the other Previews, f.e. the pics of the Hoplitai or the Peltastai. Maybe you have such pictures of Hastati, Principes or Triarii? Would be awesome if we could see them :2thumbsup:

[paullus]

in time...but i'll tell you they're very very nice, that should make the wait easier, right?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I only hope you guys are doing fine and that we'll see EBII at least next year, if anything.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

I only hope you guys are doing fine and that we'll see EBII at least next year, if anything.

Christmas gift? :sweatdrop:

[antisocialmunky]

Hopefully before N:TW.

[SwissBarbar]

in time...but i'll tell you they're very very nice, that should make the wait easier, right?

of course, I'm sure EB II is worth waiting for it. It was just a question, because this preview is different from the others, that's all ;-) Nontheless, great work, EB-Team !!

[Skullheadhq]

Christmas gift? :sweatdrop:

Probably not.

[Bucefalo]

I´d wait anytime needed... come on, everyone knows that when EBII releases, all of us will be leaving all other games to gather dust and come back to M2TW. I for one surely will, this is much more amazing than anything CA or any other game company can ever release.

[Belisarius II]

Probably not.

Easter gift?https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-sweatdrop.gif

This is pretty ironic for me because just the other day as I was building a few colonies in my republic, I was thinking that the EB team should of expanded more on them. Now I wake up and I see this!

[Skullheadhq]

Easter gift?https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-sweatdrop.gif

This is pretty ironic for me because just the other day as I was building a few colonies in my republic, I was thinking that the EB team should of expanded more on them. Now I wake up and I see this!

I don't think we'll see it at easter, which is a good thing, because I dont want EB 1.5 but EB2, they should take as long as they need to make this a great game.

Summer '10?

[Urg]

I should have said this earlier....Great preview. I love the Romani.

You guys have done a great job. You seem to have so much knowledge at your fingertips. Its so great to see historical accuracy AND so much detail in a game!!

And thanks for making the effort to give us a preview. Keeps the saliva running! MMM.

[Respenus]

Oh my, I don't know what to say. The Romani preview looks great. I wouldn't be surprised if you over-achieved what the Dominion of the Sword mod wants to do. I newer imagined such detail was even possible to mod into any CA game. Why they continue on their path of hate towards their players is something I shall never understand. What I do know is that we all feel ave-inspired by the tremendous work you have already done and will continue to do in the future.

I can only wish you the best of luck and may further moding be smooth sailing to all EB members.

[neoiq5719]

is there anywhere screenshots of the new roman units?

[JMRC]

I´d wait anytime needed... come on, everyone knows that when EBII releases, all of us will be leaving all other games to gather dust and come back to M2TW. I for one surely will, this is much more amazing than anything CA or any other game company can ever release.
Thank you! It's very important to know that some players will be waiting for EBII even if takes a long time to do.


is there anywhere screenshots of the new roman units?
We're preparing the next preview with roman units. Summer vacations have delayed this a bit, but we hope to release it very soon.

[zooeyglass]

wondrous wondrous wondrous preview. i am so glad i continue to check in here just for how good the EB team's previews are - always worth the waiting and always packed with information, detail, excitement.

a proper attempt at a game modelling of the cursus honorum = WOW. both impressed and thrilled. the romani in EB1 are a great faction but often seen as the 'easy option', at least by hardened players. but this! wonderful, can't way to try them!

[Phalanx300]

I must say I'm not a big fan of the Romans but the Camillan and Polybian warriors are really interesting, for some reason I don't like Legionarries. :shame:

So perhaps after I've played Koinen Hellenon and Sweboz I'll try out a Barbarian campaign. :clown:

[SwissBarbar]

Thank you! It's very important to know that some players will be waiting for EBII even if takes a long time to do.


We're preparing the next preview with roman units. Summer vacations have delayed this a bit, but we hope to release it very soon.



:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: Good News

[econ21]

I must say I'm not a big fan of the Romans but the Camillan and Polybian warriors are really interesting, for some reason I don't like Legionarries. :shame:


I know what you mean. Legionnaires are fine, IMO, but so ... uniform. I love the variety of the earlier troops types.

[war is hell]

That Romani looks so bad-ass, he kinda reminds me of Aaron Eckharthttp://lh4.ggpht.com/lilaliss/R8t7_uZyMDI/AAAAAAAACVo/aulrFVd0_qw/aaron_eckhart.jpg

[antisocialmunky]

BTW- I don't think this ever got answered but:

What is that Celtic Sword called from the quiz?

[-Praetor-]

Celtic Shortsword. The Roman name for that sword is unknown, specially considering the romans called most of their blades simply "gladius".

But that's not a Gladius Hispaniensis, that's for sure.

[antisocialmunky]

Should it technically be called something like "Iron Age Sword from the X Culture layer at LOCATION made sometime between ca. DATE1 to ca. DATE2:....

[-Praetor-]

Should it technically be called something like "Iron Age Sword from the X Culture layer at LOCATION made sometime between ca. DATE1 to ca. DATE2:....

Certainly, but no way in hell the community would have answered the proper archaeological name. Hence, just a simpler name denoting its type and provenance was requiered. :beam:

[antisocialmunky]

But can you provide the Culture it came from. I'm just curious.

[paullus]

its a type found in several examples from N. Italy, from the Po down to Latium. its likely an ancestor of the hispaniensis, as the route of progression from it to the hispaniensis is fairly obvious from observing it.

[Fluvius Camillus]

EB team is made up of gods...

EXCELLENT work! Cant wait!!!:2thumbsup:

~Fluvius

[Kevin]

Haha, the Roman soldier looks like Titus Pullo from Rome

[-Praetor-]

Haha, the Roman soldier looks like Titus Pullo from Rome

You really think so? Heh, boy you've got imagination.:laugh4:

I actually think that he looks a bit like Ernest Borgnine. He played as centurion in the italian movie "Jesus of Nazaret".

http://www.movieshark.biz/movies1977/jesus_of_nazareth-3.jpg

All in all, we may disagree whom he looks like, but we can all agree that that's one of the best faces ever modded in EB.

[hoom]

Just wondering if someone can give me background info about this pic?
I've seen it before & am aware that its a contemporary painting from a Roman building/tomb or something.

https://a.imagehost.org/0107/romanintro.jpg

I absolutely love it & was trying to find a digital copy to look at/set as my desktop the other day but couldn't remember where I've seen it or what its called :help:

Edit: Ah, found it! Its from Pompeii.
This Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/sets/72157602496450473/) has a bunch of good pics of that one & several others in the same style that I'd not seen before
<- Me = very happy right now :D

[ziegenpeter]

Hopefully before N:TW.

Nukular:TW?

[Scipio Germanicus]

Nukular:TW?

Napoleon: Total War, the next TW game. Here's some info about it from SEGA

http://www.sega.com/games/napoleon-total-war

[neoiq5719]

Thank you! It's very important to know that some players will be waiting for EBII even if takes a long time to do.


We're preparing the next preview with roman units. Summer vacations have delayed this a bit, but we hope to release it very soon.
And...will this preview be any time this century?

[SwissBarbar]

Wrong question :wall: :wall:

[JMRC]

And...will this preview be any time this century?
Well... if you know how to model and/or skin, then why don't you come over and help? Otherwise, it's not nice to hurry those who work for you without pay.

[G. Septimus]

Man, EBII is going to be so ******* awesome!
yeah, cant wait to see the roman badassnes:inquisitive:

[Phalanx300]

I figure the units will look like this? :2thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L41MJLXJAYI

[WarpGhost]

Is EB2 going to be monthly turns or something and I've missed it being said? Its not in the FAQ as far as I can see. Because I dont understand how the offices thing will be anything but a collossal pain in the 4 seasons model. People could move around a lot faster in reality than in TW games, and didnt generally get 'exhaustion' that would last most of the year.

[Skullheadhq]

If so, it would take 3432 turns to get to 14AD!

[WarpGhost]

Which is why I thought it unlikely, but it would also make this new offices thing frustrating, especially if the removal of the Imperium trait isnt predictable. Its not like I was a Romanoi player before, and its even less likely now. I love EB because it adds a lot of history stuff and makes the combat more enjoyable, without compromising its value as a game with the use of interfering gimmicks (in this case, levying arbitrary penalties on not using it, and removing my control over my characters, though in the latter case at least there appears to be no penalty for not doing it). I hope this isnt emblamatic of a slew of new such 'features'.

Where'd the edit button go...?

Anyway, what I mean to say I have an issue with is the lack of choice this addition implies; someone who has a different attitude to the use of realism in games will make something like this work regardless of practicality, as the general response implies. Plenty of people add all sorts of rules to their games to cater for their tastes. But they have a choice to use those 'features', whereas that choice is taken away with the above 'offices feature', and other things made in the same vein. It also doesnt sound like the sort of thing that is easy to edit out of the script. So the only choice to exercise is not to play the faction (though it wont stop the impact on the AI), and as someone who hasnt been encouraged to play a certain way or faction in the past, this type of 'feature' acts as an active discouragement.

(and before someone makes a comment, I use the ' ' to mark out a specific element, not as a denotion of sarcasm)

[JMRC]

We will have 4 turns per year. The player is not forced to use the offices. He may just keep playing and ignore them. However, if you wish to add a roleplaying touch to your game, you will make sure your best political generals will be in Rome for the elections.

[WarpGhost]

But the punishment for non-office characters launching an attack will still apply, correct?

[Epimetheus]

Not neccessarily. Though I never really played it much, I do recall the Deus Lo Volt M2TW mod having a number of features like these offices, but they were optional. Rather than activating one massive script at the start of a game, you could pick and choose the elements you'd like to have through a number of smaller background scripts. I suspect that EB2 will likely work in a similar way, since it seems possible to do so.

[Atilius]

I'd like to respond to a few points you raised in your posts.


... but it would also make this new offices thing frustrating, especially if the removal of the Imperium trait isnt predictable.The Imperium trait is lost when the character ceases being Propraetor or Proconsul, and the player will be notified of the fact with a trait message. The only possible element of "unpredictability" is that we may consider lengthening the terms of one or both of these offices as the number of provinces increases.


... what I mean to say I have an issue with is the lack of choice this addition implies; someone who has a different attitude to the use of realism in games will make something like this work regardless of practicality, as the general response implies. Plenty of people add all sorts of rules to their games to cater for their tastes. But they have a choice to use those 'features', whereas that choice is taken away with the above 'offices feature', ...
Where there's a choice between catering to the tastes of those who enjoy historical realism and those who are indifferent to it, we are comfortable favoring those prefer historical realism. Instead of forcing them to develop "house rules" for better historical play, we'd rather build them into the game. This also allows the game to better guide a novice who wishes to play historically, but doesn't know how. Finally, the team has always believed that more realism and more historical depth generally make for a better, more challenging the game. That's why EB came into being.



...So the only choice to exercise is not to play the faction (though it wont stop the impact on the AI)
The AI is not constrained by the same rules for Roman offices as the player since we can't make it understand them. If you wish to avoid the Romani, there will be 29 others to choose from.

[WarpGhost]

The Imperium trait is lost when the character ceases being Propraetor or Proconsul, and the player will be notified of the fact with a trait message.By unpredictability, I mean knowing when that message is going to appear; knowing that it will end at some point isnt unpredictable, we can predict that with 100% certainty from the information provided. Is it a fixed term of Imperium (through combination of Consul/Praetor and Proconsul/Propraetor), or is it a non-predictable timeframe? That is the question I was asking. A fixed term makes it more manageable.


Instead of forcing them to develop "house rules" for better historical play, we'd rather build them into the game. This also allows the game to better guide a novice who wishes to play historically, but doesn't know how. Finally, the team has always believed that more realism and more historical depth generally make for a better, more challenging the game. That's why EB came into being.I applaud the sentiment, especially for the novices, but we will agree to disagree on this point; I've done a fair bit of games development myself, and my experiences have lead me to conclude that proportionality (eg. between game and reality, rather than going one way or the other for its own sake) should be a firm guideline.

[Ludens]

Where'd the edit button go...?

Is it still missing? Junior members don't have an edit button, and IIRC you were promoted recently.

[Phalanx300]

The AI is not constrained by the same rules for Roman offices as the player since we can't make it understand them. If you wish to avoid the Romani, there will be 29 others to choose from.

So no scripting faction? Thats great news and a good decision. :2thumbsup:

[WarpGhost]

Is it still missing? Junior members don't have an edit button, and IIRC you were promoted recently.No, its there now (but it wasnt at the time I made that post). But I've edited posts on the EB1 board as a junior; is it a restriction on the EB2 board only?

[Skullheadhq]

Why shouldn't juniors be allowed to edit there post?
It sometimes forces them to double post and then everybody gets annoyed.

[Ludens]

No, its there now (but it wasnt at the time I made that post). But I've edited posts on the EB1 board as a junior; is it a restriction on the EB2 board only?

No, it should be the same on both. I guess this wasn't fixed after the crash a few months back. These settings are quite easy to overlook. I'll pass this on to the administrator. Thanks for pointing it out.


Why shouldn't juniors be allowed to edit there post?
It sometimes forces them to double post and then everybody gets annoyed.

On the .Org, the idea is that members edit, spell-check and correct their post before hitting the "submit reply" button ~:) . There have been a few incidents in which members posted abuse to bait their opponents and then removed it before the mods got on-line, so we thought it best to disable the edit button for new members until we get to know them a bit better.

This is less of an issue with the new vBulletin software, so maybe this policy should be revised.

[Owen Glyndwr]

I've done a fair bit of games development myself, and my experiences have lead me to conclude that proportionality (eg. between game and reality, rather than going one way or the other for its own sake) should be a firm guideline.

Europa Barbarorum was designed to create a strictly historically accurate game, often at the expense of what some would consider "fun gameplay". But here's the deal, most people here consider historically accurate gameplay to be fun. If you don't, then you have a number of options:

1. As Atilius so politely suggested, play a different faction (You did mention that you don't like playing as Rome anyways, so what's the big deal?)
2. Ignore it and play anyways, as some here have suggested
3. Go back to vanilla, you'll probably find a much better so called "balance" between gameplay and "reality" there.

[Cambyses]

heh, its a totally valid question to ask if the criteria to be in Rome will be an issue when using the new offices system. I mean, it sounds like a fantastic addition to the game, but it will have to be play tested to the point that it actually works. I mean for example sending a pro... to Iberia will likely take at least 18 months or so judging by movement speed in both EB1 and MIITW (more if you use artillery, but lets no go there!). Add in any 6+ turn siege and its VERY likely the imperium will have ended some time ago. ie before any campaign for a non-blitz player has really started.

It would also be interesting to find out if the attack penalties will be applied to client rulers or allied generals.

Remember that in real history a general could probably travel to Rome (for whatever reason) from Iberia or Asia Minor and then back to renew his campaign - with reinforcement perhaps - within about one EB turn. So this conflict between "gameplay and reality" is to a certain extent a fiction. We are only really discussing a gameplay issue.

[Horatius Flaccus]

You can just use the 'move_character' cheat. :book:

[Atilius]

...sending a pro... to Iberia will likely take at least 18 months or so judging by movement speed in both EB1 and MIITW ... Add in any 6+ turn siege and its VERY likely the imperium will have ended...As I wrote earlier, we may wish to extend the terms of the promagestries as the number of controlled regions increases in order to avoid the problem you describe. And at some point we will need to accomodate the equivalents of L. Licinius Lucullus' seven-year tenure in the east, and Caesar's ten year command in Gaul.

It would also be interesting to find out if the attack penalties will be applied to client rulers or allied generals.Client rulers probably yes, allied generals probably no, though allied generals don't fit well into the Roman system of the EB period.


Remember that in real history a general could probably travel to Rome (for whatever reason) from Iberia or Asia Minor and then back to renew his campaign - with reinforcement perhaps - within about one EB turn. So this conflict between "gameplay and reality" is to a certain extent a fiction. We are only really discussing a gameplay issue.No, there are definitely historical realism issues involved. The Imperium trait exists to (1) discourage the player from using historically ineligible characters (those who don't hold senior magestries) to command large armies offensively and (2) to promote an historical rotation of command.

[SwissBarbar]

You can just use the 'move_character' cheat. :book:

It's not that easy with rome, the romans don't let themselves be moved around like the FM's of other factions

[Cambyses]

As I wrote earlier, we may wish to extend the terms of the promagestries as the number of controlled regions increases in order to avoid the problem you describe. And at some point we will need to accomodate the equivalents of L. Licinius Lucullus' seven-year tenure in the east, and Caesar's ten year command in Gaul.
Client rulers probably yes, allied generals probably no, though allied generals don't fit well into the Roman system of the EB period.
No, there are definitely historical realism issues involved. The Imperium trait exists to (1) discourage the player from using historically ineligible characters (those who don't hold senior magestries) to command large armies offensively and (2) to promote an historical rotation of command.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my message so thoroughly. I absolutely agree that this proposed system will add another level of realism to the game. My concern is entirely with its practical application, not the theory.

More specifically in relation to:

1. travel times, turns spent sieging - variance from historical reality as above
2. character build up in Rome, ie during the mid game when its quite possible to have 30+ family members
3. the game design original purpose of family members as city governors (including but not limited to espionage defence, building and recruitment costs, income modifiers, culture modifiers, region defence, squalor/farming modifier and other public order benefits).

It seems however that you have already given these potential issues a certain amount of thought. I look forward to discovering the resolution when EBII is released. If you ever need assistance before then with play testing, I would be more than happy to volunteer.

PS: my comment re historical realism was really mostly related to WarpGhost's posts, where I felt he had been unfairly jumped on by some members. It isnt possible to represent every aspect of the ancient military world accurately using the TW engine. Some compromises must always be made. For example vanilla, EB1 and most other mods Ive seen waive the requirement to be in Rome in order to be elected consul due to the travel time issue. This doesnt per se make them less realistic, it just accepts and works around certain features of the game design, and requires the player to use his imagination for the rest.

[anubis88]

It's not that easy with rome, the romans don't let themselves be moved around like the FM's of other factions

Sure they do... It just requiers a little more patience:book:

[G. Septimus]

no, there are a number of men that can go anywhere....

[anubis88]

no, there are a number of men that can go anywhere....

I guess you wanted to say a number of men that can'T! go anywhere... so please enlighten me about whom you are speaking, since i've never encountered anyone i could'nt move

[G. Septimus]

I guess you wanted to say a number of men that can'T! go anywhere... so please enlighten me about whom you are speaking, since i've never encountered anyone i could'nt move
The Consuls can move anywhere they want , with the permission of the senate off course,
Diplomats,Spies, and Asassins can move any where they want to go

[anubis88]

The Consuls can move anywhere they want , with the permission of the senate off course,
Diplomats,Spies, and Asassins can move any where they want to go

Ok now i'm so confused i will just let it go:dizzy2:

[Markus_Aurelius]

Couldn't you increase the movement points for a character who is a consul so he can actually go on campaign

[aapjes]

Coloniae in EB II
The colonia building will become an important part of the game for the Romani faction. The first level will represent the first colony founded in a region and higher levels will represent the foundation of additional coloniae.

I) It will allow recruitment of Roman factional troop types with a low replenishment rate.
II) The colonia will gradually increase the percentage of the city-state religion in a region.
III) Each level of the colonia building permits the city-state religion to rise to a progressively higher value.

Historically, foundation of coloniae was dependent on a supply of willing colonists. Consequently, coloniae will only become available for construction or upgrade periodically. The construction of coloniae will only be possible in provinces that already have a road or port.

Later in the game, when the professional army has been established, an unlimited number of coloniae militares will become available. However, it will also become necessary to build them in order to continue recruiting factional troops from any source. Coloniae militares serve as a source of recruitment for factional troops and will be the only source of recruitment for Evocatae.

Will we be able to do something similar with the Carthies and the Diadochi? Since they also colonized areas with Liby-Phoenicians and Greeks respectively. Or was that a too rare occurance to be put in the game (if I'm not mistaken and they even did it:sweatdrop:)?

And, before I forget, thanks for the preview and EB in general:2thumbsup:.

[Alexandros_III]

I'm surprised I missed this. This looks amazing!

[KARTLOS]

Couldn't you increase the movement points for a character who is a consul so he can actually go on campaign

I would suggest simply dramatically increasing the movement points of all family members. A small group containing the mounted retainers of just one individual, would have been able to move around much quicker than is currently represented.

This would allow a more strategic use of Generals.

[Skullheadhq]

And also cause a disease known to men as AI blitz...

[Apázlinemjó]

When will the Romani section get a new-style EB2 signature, like the other factions? :clown:

[Skullheadhq]

My guess would be at the next Romani preview.

[neoiq5719]

Thank you! It's very important to know that some players will be waiting for EBII even if takes a long time to do.


We're preparing the next preview with roman units. Summer vacations have delayed this a bit, but we hope to release it very soon.
:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

[Tech Support]

My Roman experience was awesome.

Thanks for making such a good mod.

[JMRC]

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

Well, this is the reason why we avoid giving too much info about previews... But since you "asked", let me say that we're delayed due to scarcity of modelers and skinners. So, if you know someone with good skills, let me know. Until then, I guess you'll just have to be more patient.

[Fabivs Ispanicvs]

very cool!

[Vega]

Well this can substitute rome total war 2 :DDD Good work eb team

[Hamata]

I'm a huge fan of the romans ROMA VICTOR!! nice job here guys