View Full Version : I just got instructions for my testimony...
HoreTore
08-25-2009, 15:14
My boss is such a great, honest man.
Just got a call from him. It was about an ex-colleague, who was fired for theft. It seems that he hasn't been paid what he's owed, and as such has sued my boss to get his money. My boss has therefore reported him to the police for the theft, he had previously just accepted an immediate resignation without involving the police.
Now the fun begins. You see, my boss used to have surveillance evidence against him. That evidence is now gone(I don't know why). So, he needs witnesses. This is where I come in. I was at work at the time, and I'm also seen in the video tape, with my colleague supposedly stealing 'right in front of my eyes'. Thing is, I don't remember it, nor did I notice it at the time(if I did I would've remembered it). This was on the 5th of July. My memory doesn't go back that far....
But that was quite irrelevant for my boss. He told me I did remember what went on that day. And I did see him steal stuff. And that's what he wants me to say to the cops. Because he has no other evidence...
So..... There are no laws against 'hindering an investigation' or 'lying to a court of law' or anything, right? :inquisitive:
Tell the police the truth, it's the right thing to do anyway.
I have no idea about Norwegian law, but in the US lying while under oath (perjury) is a felony.
Lying under oath is a criminal offense in Belgium as well.
I assume it's the same in Norway.
Question: Did you ever see the videotape itself?
A Terribly Harmful Name
08-25-2009, 16:01
Perjury is also difficult to detect and prosecute, so as long as not too many people know the story, you can still talk without much fear.
FactionHeir
08-25-2009, 16:04
So the tape's missing and you didn't notice when something was stolen, but knew that someone was fired for theft. So how were you a witness other than from being told about it afterwards?
So the best you could say would be that you know something went missing, but didn't know who did it except that this guy got fired for theft.
Don't lie to the police, don't lie under oath, don't lie in court.
Frankly, not lying is a good idea 99.99999% of the time.
Kadagar_AV
08-25-2009, 17:08
"Don't lie to the police, don't lie under oath, don't lie in court."
I dont agree... I've done all 3 and it kind of saved my...
When the police lies, you kind of have to.
In SUCH a situation as described here though, I wouldnt lie.
lol blackmail the crap out of him if he gives you trouble. Blackmail him anyway really
HoreTore
08-25-2009, 17:38
I guess my irony and sarcasm wasn't apparent enough in my writing... :clown:
There's not a snowballs chance in hell that I will lie to the cops. The chance that I will do that for my boss is so small I'm lost for words. I'm stunned that he said this to me. And yeah, this entire thingy is all very illegal under Norwegian law too....
First of all, I liked the guy that was fired. I think it's ridiculous on every level to fire him, even if he did nick a few items, he still made the company more money than what he took, and secondly, they've been screwing him over on his paycheck, so I'm pretty sure that it's actually they who have stolen the most money....
I do no want to help screw the guy over. In fact, if I did see something, I would probably have kept my mouth shut anyway... I have not seen any tapes or anything else, all I have is that phone call I got from my boss telling me what I "remember". He could very well be making it all up for all I know. For all I know, my ex-colleague might be sitting there with irrefutable proof that he did not take anything, and if I claim that I did see him take something, now where would that leave me?
So the tape's missing and you didn't notice when something was stolen, but knew that someone was fired for theft. So how were you a witness other than from being told about it afterwards?
I'm a witness because my boss tells me I noticed that he stole, and that I remember it. Lying doesn't seem to really worry him....
I'd tell my boss and the police to deal with the problem themselves.
But if I was in court under oath I would tell the truth. A man has to look at himself in the mirror and know that if all else fails, at least he is still an honest man.
Don Corleone
08-25-2009, 18:14
As others have said....
It's not your place to get into who's right and who's wrong. That's why you have a (hopefully) functional legal system over there.
If you actually saw the tape, but don't remember what you saw on it, say that.
If you don't remember ever seeing the tape, say that too.
If your boss threatens to fire you if you don't testify as per his advice, tell him you're calling the local prosecutor and having him charged with conspiracy to commit perjury and that you're starting a civil suit for wrongful termination/harassment.
That should settle him down pretty quickly.
It's not okay to steal to make up for being screwed over by your company either, btw. I understand your (and your former co-worker's) mindset on this, but that's just vjigilantism. He should have reported it to the local labor bureau. Even in the US, he would have gotten some satisfaction.... in a socialist paradise like Norway, he may have wound up with your boss as a manservant for life. :clown:
HoreTore
08-25-2009, 18:26
It's not okay to steal to make up for being screwed over by your company either, btw. I understand your (and your former co-worker's) mindset on this, but that's just vjigilantism. He should have reported it to the local labor bureau. Even in the US, he would have gotten some satisfaction.... in a socialist paradise like Norway, he may have wound up with your boss as a manservant for life. :clown:
Of course. It wouldn't be okay, but I would certainly understand him if that was the reason why he took a few things. And with my opinion of my boss being quite low, I sincerely doubt I would be helping him out....
As for this situation, if someone asks me a question, I will of course tell "the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me Rune Gerhardsen". If I'm ever going to lie to a court of law or even the cops, it's got be an incredibly serious situation. A case concerning pennies that don't belong to me doesn't fit that category... There's more to it than morality. My record sheet is clean, there's no way I'm going to stain it with perjury. Nor am I going to risk it no matter how insignificant that risk may be.
I'm not a crook, and I'm insulted that my boss thinks I'm willing to become one over a couple of thousands.
oh, and for the record, I've pestered him about contact the unions for a long, long time... But he's young, this is his first job, and he's afraid to be a bother, that the boss will screw him over, that he won't get a good reference, that he won't get as many extra hours, etc. And since I don't have a problem with my pay, there's not a lot I can do for him, this is something he must be willing to do himself... I can offer assistance, but not much more than that...
oh, and for the record, I've pestered him about contact the unions for a long, long time... But he's young, this is his first job, and he's afraid to be a bother, that the boss will screw him over, that he won't get a good reference, that he won't get as many extra hours, etc. And since I don't have a problem with my pay, there's not a lot I can do for him, this is something he must be willing to do himself... I can offer assistance, but not much more than that...
Unions? Call Arbeidstilsynet. They will go through this business' books and find any discrepancies. If as you say they have not paid wages in full, Arbeidstilsynet would go through all the pay-checks. If there is any faults, your company would be smacked on the palms and forced to adhere to the laws concerning paying employees the correct amount of money. They would also be slapped with a large fine.
HoreTore
08-25-2009, 22:06
Unions? Call Arbeidstilsynet. They will go through this business' books and find any discrepancies. If as you say they have not paid wages in full, Arbeidstilsynet would go through all the pay-checks. If there is any faults, your company would be smacked on the palms and forced to adhere to the laws concerning paying employees the correct amount of money. They would also be slapped with a large fine.
I would've said Arbeidstilsynet, but I couldn't come up with a proper translation, so I used the word "union" instead. ~;)
The problem is the proper payment for overtime, and when people are to receive overtime pay. Not much to do with it for me though, I can't give anything to Arbeidstilsynet, as I simply don't work overtime... And then there's the additional problem; it doesn't seem to bother my co-workers that much. It seems that those who would prefer proper pay, like myself, simply don't work overtime, while those who do are afraid that if they demand more pay, they wouldn't be able to work extra hours anymore. And as such, as this doesn't concern me that much, it's rather hard for me to fight this particular battle...
What if he did never steal?
Also, here it is called "False Testimony", and you could face 2 to 5 years in jail.
HoreTore
08-25-2009, 22:13
What if he did never steal?
Also, here it is called "False Testimony", and you could face 2 to 5 years in jail.
Indeed. Which is the reason I'm rather insulted that my boss demands this of me... I have never seen him steal, I have never heard a word of it except from my boss, nor have I seen any footage or any other evidence of him stealing... And the person in question is rather prone to forgetting stuff, he could just as well simply have forgotten to pay for the items...
FactionHeir
08-26-2009, 00:06
What would you do if you actually did see him steal but your boss has really lost the evidence and relies on your testimony? Would you sell out your friend or lie to the police knowing that they couldn't find out?
That is, with everything else being equal, i.e. you really liked the fired guy, you don't have much of a good opinion of your boss, your ex colleague did bring in a lot more cash than he took etc.
When the police lies, you kind of have to.
Lol. Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.
Don Corleone
08-26-2009, 16:20
I would've said Arbeidstilsynet, but I couldn't come up with a proper translation, so I used the word "union" instead. ~;)
If Arbeidstilsynet means a government agency charged with enforcing labor laws and protecting workers, the American term is "Labor Board" or "Labor Bureau", which is what I was referring to.
And even in the U.S., when people have shown that they were forced to work unpaid overtime, usually the consequences for the employer are 1) repayment of all back wages, with interest 2) fines severe enough to ensure they never consider doing it again and 3) planned and unplanned audits by the Labor Board for some period of time.
Indeed. Americans relate unions immediatly to communist oppression and totalitarism (I think)
Louis VI the Fat
08-26-2009, 23:54
I'd go after the boss with all guns blazing. I'd hide a recorder under my shirt and get him to ask me to commit perjury. Then I'd destroy him in court.
This is a serious offence. One does not accuse an employee of stealing. It could ruin this person's career. Sheer madness and this power game needs to be punished with everything you can throw at your boss.
Come on, you commie! Show that bastard! You've got nothing to lose but your chains etc, etc
I'd go after the boss with all guns blazing. I'd hide a recorder under my shirt and get him to ask me to commit perjury. Then I'd destroy him in court.
This is a serious offence. One does not accuse an employee of stealing. It could ruin this person's career. Sheer madness and this power game needs to be punished with everything you can throw at your boss.
Come on, you commie! Show that bastard! You've got nothing to lose but your chains etc, etc
I 2nd this post.
Papewaio
08-27-2009, 03:25
3rd it.
Mouzafphaerre
08-27-2009, 04:22
.
Lynch the boss! :smash:
.
Sheogorath
08-28-2009, 03:39
Indeed. Americans relate unions immediatly to communist oppression and totalitarism (I think)
I tend to think of corruption, lobbyists and stupidity, myself. That's just for the major unions though, typically the smaller ones are alright. Like the exotic dancers union :beam:
pevergreen
08-28-2009, 03:44
Vote: The Boss
I saw him eating a spicy meat-a-ball.
CountArach
08-28-2009, 04:17
I'd go after the boss with all guns blazing. I'd hide a recorder under my shirt and get him to ask me to commit perjury. Then I'd destroy him in court.
This is a serious offence. One does not accuse an employee of stealing. It could ruin this person's career. Sheer madness and this power game needs to be punished with everything you can throw at your boss.
Once again, Louis is proven to be a genius.
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