Skirmisher Style Armies

[Scutarii]

Hi,

A friend suggested I play R:TW and that this was a great mod so I've began my first game playing on Med/Hard (yeah...confident much) as the Lusitanians. I'm competent enough at the campaign map (played a lot of Europa Universalis et al) and by auto resolving everything I've mamaged to take control of all of Iberia and advanced along the North African coast to the point where I threaten Atiqua.

Problem is auto resolve ignores a massive part of the game and the few times I have tried it I always end up failing badly.

The problem is that I am trying to use hit and run to cause casualties on large armies; I often run sets of 5xskirmisher/slinger as independant stacks on the main map and attack a larger enemy, go until I've run out of javelins and then run away, hopefully I'll kill enough of a big stack so that when they do reach me they can be taken out by my actual armies. Sounds good to me in theory, problem is that the presence of a single unit of cavalry screws me completely and against really big armies the skirmishers just end up auto-running the whole time and wont withdraw as the auto-run herds them.

So my question is, how do I successfully take on large stacks of Roman or Quathadastim armies with or without cavalry using the Lusitanian troops?

I lack anything capable of fighting them in hand to hand so I am left with missile units only so...how do I do it? Sheer numbers does it eventually but I lack the funds to do that indefinitely...

[Julius Augustus]

In my experience, armies of pure skirmishers are hard to win with. It would be better to include a few units of light or medium infantry. Then you can effectively engage the enemy with your spearmen/swordsmen and send your skirmishers around the enemy rear to bombard them with thousands of javelins and sling bullets. Simply put your melée infantry into guard mode, unless they have a falcata, and they will hold the enemy while your skirmishers destroy them from the rear.

If, however, you want to have a pure skirmisher army take on another one, divide your army into 2 lines. Javelin armed infantry in the front, and long range skirmishers in the back. Send your javelin skirmishers to the front, and have them try to hit enemy units on the right side. The enemy will be disorganized, and will try to chase your javelin armed skirmishers. When individual units turn their shields away from your long ranged skirmishers, concentrate fire on them. This will cause heavy casualties. Some enemies may start to route. You may want to include a couple units of skirmisher cavalry in your army to chase down the routers. Once your troops run out of ammo, turn off skirmisher mode on a lot of your units and try to micromanage them away from the enemy, at which point you can press the retreat button for those units. If done correctly, you can wear down enemy armies. These battles will take a long time though. It is usually easier to have armies with varied troop types, as you are then not limited to one tactic. It can also be fun to try out unusual strategies. Your choice. Good luck with your campaign!

[DaciaJC]

I lack anything capable of fighting them in hand to hand

Hmm? The Lusotannan have excellent infantry. Many of them wield AP falcatas, so they actually fight very well against armor-heavy factions like the Romani or Karthadastim. Try Caetranann, Ambakaro, Iberi Caetrati, Loricati Caetrati, Loricati Scutari, and Clona Tekonac. You also have good spearmen (Gestikapoinann, Scortamareva, Iberi Milites, and Iberi Scutari) that can act as line infantry.

If you want to stop missile troops from running from the enemy, turn off "skirmish mode" (right next to "fire at will").

[Weebeast]

If you're using skirmishers exclusively then take care of cavalry first. Turn off skirmishing and skirmish manually. I do get lazy though so I usually just sacrifice one unit to keep on running and eventually eat the cavalry charge while the bulk of the army harasses theirs. In my Romani campaign, my African detachments are made up of levy skirmishers and Numidian cav as I need my factional troops on Sweboz frontier *grumble*. I can suppress 3-settlement Qarthadhastim easy even if they're led by twenty-something bodyguard unit. It's great for open field battles not so much at city assault though.

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm not sure if I say something you know already, but the units are only balanced if you play with medium battle difficulty. Otherwise, the AI units will get bonuses that make them fight better than they should.

In any case, the most important things (that I can help you with, anyway) have already been covered, and it was a long time since I played as the Lusotannan so I can't help much more with the specifics. You can always try ambushing your enemy, though; your units - and especially the AP-armed infantry named above - are well suited for that, and it's a tactic the historical Iberian tribes were very fond of. It's very effective in-game as well.

[Scutarii]

Sorry, I'm not running 100% skirmishers.

I have a few battle armies with a mix of the combat capable troops who finish the job and several smaller ambushing type skirmisher srmies to weaken the enemy and keep random eleutheroi in check.

Seems I've been using my troops wrong. The cheaper Caetrannan I've been using as spam and hold troops to throw in front of whatever comes (I move them up close, put them in guard ad then fire at will) and using the more 'elite' spearmen as flankers...I guess I've just been looking at the raw attack stat rather than the special abilities and the charge values.

I'm disappointed to hear the computer just gets bonuses on different difficulties...Most games do it that though. Does the AI change intelligence at different difficulties as there have been a few times when I've been saved because the AI does something stupid (I blame the Quarthidashtim senate!) like marching a full stack (including 6 yes 6 unit of different expensive sacred XXX elites with a 7 star general into the desert to garrison Tuat and not move from there for 12 seasons).

Also I know that trees are meant to be to the advantage of skirmishers but I find them the opposite, missile fire does very little in amongst the trees (except javelins to the back!) and it is difficult to see what is happening and give orders (I initially played from the generals point of view, zoomed right in but changed quickly as it just wasn't workable).

I have tried ambushes myself, but every time (EVERY time) they fail, I get the message that the ambush has failed and the enemy has time to prepare, is there some way to make an ambush more likely (apart from with characters as they don't seem to get ambush traits...I assume they actually need to ambush someone to get those!)?

Lessons.

1. Turn off auto skirmish and micro manage instead
2. multiple lines of smirmishers
3. trust my infantry to actually fight!

[antisocialmunky]

Use lusto light infantry, they have AP swords. As long as you don't have a cavalry defecit and the enemy is stupid enough to chase after you, you should be able to win even against a human.

[DaciaJC]

Also I know that trees are meant to be to the advantage of skirmishers but I find them the opposite, missile fire does very little in amongst the trees (except javelins to the back!) and it is difficult to see what is happening and give orders (I initially played from the generals point of view, zoomed right in but changed quickly as it just wasn't workable).


If you're having trouble with huge trees, see this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112360) thread.

At Hard/Very Hard battle difficulty, the AI gets boni in morale and defense, if not more. At Hard/Very Hard campaign difficulty, the AI will get increasingly stubborn and usually concentrate its forces solely on wiping the human player out.

And yes, trust your infantry to fight. They do a marvelous job (and I finished conquering the whole of the Iberian Peninsula about two weeks ago).

[Moros]

You know I envy you scutarii, I can't remember when I had my last real challenge playing a battle, when not overly outnumbered.

[Julius Augustus]

I had a fun challenging battle yesterday. I had odds of over 12 to 1 against me in a siege battle and almost won. Those are the kinds of battles you treasure.

[Cambyses]

Lusos fight more or less like the Romans, but with spears and decent cavalry. Multiple lines of well armoured javelin throwing infantry can take on anyone head to head. You really shouldnt need to use skirmisher stacks to weaken the enemy. If you get into trouble then try and fight a couple of battles in the woods. Their advantage is 1) ability to hide and 2) much higher morale. That advantage does not directly effect attack capacity - especially with missiles. Just get the enemy to run then hunt them down.

[Scutarii]

I always have a cavalry deficit.

What do I need to build cavalry? I can recruit mercenary cavalry, but they are expensive.

I'll try some battles and get back to you...

[mlc82]

The light luso swordsmen (Caetrannan I think) can hack even the heaviest infantry to pieces, problem is that they die easily as well, so aren't so great as "spam" in that regard. Use one of your spear units (the light or mediums) to pin enemy infantry from the front, then flank them with Caetrannan and watch the massacre begin! Those AP swords will wreak havoc.

BTW, like someone already said, keep your battle difficulty to medium unless you want to unbalance everything. Hard battles give the enemy units a big bonus in attack and defense- on very hard, even the wimpiest AI skirmishers can usually beat up your heaviest infantry without breaking a sweat. This isn't really "more challenging" IMO, it's just boring and unrealistic.

[The Celtic Viking]

I have tried ambushes myself, but every time (EVERY time) they fail, I get the message that the ambush has failed and the enemy has time to prepare, is there some way to make an ambush more likely (apart from with characters as they don't seem to get ambush traits...I assume they actually need to ambush someone to get those!)?

I'm sorry to say that I really don't know why this is. I try ambushes from time to time (sometimes unintentionally) as the Arverni, and they typically succeed. I'm not doing anything special for it, either. Perhaps I'm just a lucky guy. :shrug:


What do I need to build cavalry? I can recruit mercenary cavalry, but they are expensive.

Just a high enough MIC ("Military Industrial Complex") level - nothing fancier than that.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Lusos get the elite skirmisher cavalry with top level Native MIC. These guys are really expensive but are great at melee. In eastern Iberia a Local MIC will yield Light skirmisher cavalry at lvl 2, med lance cavalry at lvl 3, and heavy cav at lvl 4 or 5, not sure which. Also in north Iberia, you can get Cantabrian Cavalry which are one of the better skirmisher cavalry units in the game and they are trained with a lvl 1 local MIC.

[antisocialmunky]

http://www.filefront.com/14247463/DeathOfHamilcar.rpy :)

[Geticus]

Practice turning skirmish on and off judiciously, if you don't your skirmishers will just run away until they get trampled. Turn it off and they will hold their ground and raise spears.
With a decent general and some chevrons from war buildings and weapon upgrades, your ambushers (the spear armed skirmishers) should be able to put down most cavalry in melee.
I have never played Lusotanna, but I play Sweboz and other Eurobarbs all the time, Lusos have comparable forces and the Ambushers are one of the troops that I respect most, cheap and lethal javelin volleys, high speed and big battalions. Similar to Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmishers, with which I crush cavalry all the time once they are upgraded.