Shogun aint shogun no more

[AggonyShim2]

it is true and i believe it is time for us to bring shogun out of this slump... i went on shogun today... it was about 5 EST and there were 3 people on... including me... now i know that that is a little late for you Euros but we should all put a little more effort into making it to the game. I must admit that i have been slacking myself. so i vote for us to really spread the word about shogun sundays i want the good turnouts we had a few weeks ago DOWN WITH MTW (for sunday atleast http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif GO MI/WE (btw... ill be there this sunday... anyone that is going to be there... sign below http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif we will take a tally of who lies and who tells the truth&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I've been on last night too, around 10.30 pm CET, 4 ppl were in game, 2 others were idle or at least they didn't reply. Waited a while, then left. Actually I wanted to find out who's using the 103 ... but I'll give it another go on Sunday.

[ShinGaiJin]

*moons Shim*

I have been absent all week Im afraid but will be online over the weekend,look forward to seeing all my Aggony friends then.
we have the battle this week too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ShinGaiJin

quote *I need a beer*

[AggonyShim2]

lol gaijin... ive been wandering with no since of direction for not talking to you in about 4 weeks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif i need thy guidance

[TenkiSoratoti]

As i have decided not to leave the community i first started playing online games in, i need someone to have a big battle sometime on the lobby. Why? because i want to make a battle story you know screenshots with annotation like the one on the shogun accademy that G0ldfish made on Yamato.

Also would there be anyone interested in making a shogun site, I hear that the game is going to be re released (and it has as my trip into town the other day discovered a £9.99 edition of shogun) so a new site with all you can do shogun and none of that nasty MTW nonsense. Then we advertise it in places. I say this because all the other shogun sites seem very near dead or are dead. Get those community newbies (septembers conscripts) in MTW to come and play shogun maybe....

[AggonyShim2]

guys i would like to appologize for not showing up for shogun sunday... we had my great grandmother's funeral today and i have been busy all day. i PROMISE i will make it next week

[TenkiSoratoti]

Game --- mean ----- nothing, im a bit of a hypocrit when i say that, social events are far more important than sitting and vegetating with a pot noodle infront of shogun.

[Brutal DLX]

True. That's why I wasn't there last night as well...
Big battle sounds good though, I'm in. (but hopefully not on Ironingboard. Again)

[Kansuke]

Quote[/b] ]Shogun aint shogun no more, *sigh*


Shogun will always be Shogun, people will come and go


Kansuke.http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/allclasses/KensaiL.jpg

[Puzz3D]

You people are killing STW participation with your MTW bashing. The last time I was in the STW foyer two players jumped all over me about how STW was better than MTW, and one of them blamed me for ruining MTW. I know who the person was despite his undercover name, and he's a hypocrite because he plays MTW a lot. The only way I'll play STW is when I have some friends there. Most players don't agree that STW is better.

[Kansuke]

Hi Yuuki,

In answer to your post, us people are keeping Shogun going, not killing it, so people like you can come and visit when the feeling takes you.

I was there that night in question, I thought you were having a contructive arguement, and didn't notice any ill feelings towards you directed by the third party. From what I can remember you were equally verbose.

No hard feelings my friend, but these negative threads of late are really beginning to piss me off, if peeps don't want to play or are leaving they should leave quietly, without making a song and dance.

I appreciate your input into the game and thank you and have nothing but admiration for all the vets.

Bows


Kansuke.http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/allclasses/KensaiL.jpg

[AggonyShim2]

well yuuki, if that be you... some of us shoguners have some ill humor towards the MTW. the game has taken all our honourable players to a new land and those of us loyal to shogun are saddened by the loss of our bretheren. but we do not HATE MTW... it is Total War and we have to respect it. if you hear us speaking that shogun is better then MTW it is because we are trying to convince some of the newbies to join us on Shogun (and oldbies for that matter) i hope to see you guys on soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Magyar Khan]

u undercover in mtw shimmy?

[AggonyShim2]

don't know... a ninja never reveals himself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[dragonchi]

Hi Shim and all

I think really we need to address the real issues, I can think of 2.

1) Why the **** do poeple insist on still using the 1.02 patch? 1.03 really should be the standard now. I feel many have left due to the poor patch, thats what is destroying the game not MTW. MTW just brings more people into the community.

And in answer to why people insist on using 1.02 Well, this is the basis for my 2nd reason.

I think its because many of the vets still want to use it, and this is because they have now worked out most the glitches and are able to use this in the latest push for the points (honor) and race to postition 1. Basicly its not within the best interest of those with most influence. 10 points for them for taking the time to test and test and test, but for those who dont have that amount of time on there hands, it makes it very difficult to have an enjoyable time these days playing because they just get crushed. This is good for no mans ego http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But

If 1.03 was to be the standard, it would change the enviroment completly, games would then be based on pure skill and understanding, and not based on who has worked out the best army after hours and hours of testing. Now to those who read this, I'm not saying your not skillful etc... Im just saying that its a bigger advantage with 1.02 to have the time to work it all out.

Also to further this .... I have seen players who dont normally do that well suddenly triump .... mind you they have adopted using armies which I have seen the dominant players use.

Also see it like a Ferrari versus a Ford, u need the equipment.

Where there is imbalance there are weaknesses and there are strengths.

When there is balance its a true test of skill, courage, and the qualities of ones spirit.

A superior quality sword will simply break and insuperior sword into pieces on the first strike.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif


Dragonchi

[Puzz3D]

Kansuke,

The discussion that night was ok, but after I made a few points about MTW is when the accusation that I had ruined MTW was made. At that point, I wasn't about to drop it. Shortly after that RageDevil, who I had gone there to see after not seeing him for over a year, got tired of waiting for me to play and left. I waited for RageDevil to come back, and during that time was repeatedly derided by another STW player for waiting instead of playing.

For anyone that's interested, understand that I don't go to the WE/MI foyer to play v1.02. It's not simply that I prefer v1.03. I don't like the gameplay of v1.02. I'll play a few v1.02 games if that's what everyone is using at the time, but unless we play no musk or there is light rain I don't really like the games.


mist,

LongJohn made original STW and he made MTW. He did not make WE/MI because he wasn't with Creative Assembly during that time, and that's why WE/MI v1.0, released in Aug 2001, was so messed up. With CA's approval, a team of 8 community members reworked the unit stats, and it was released as official patch v1.02 in Nov 2001. That team could not discuss or involve other community members in the work because they were bound by an NDA agreement, and a deadline loomed up unexpectedly at the end. This patch initially boosted foyer attendance from about 30 to 60 at peak hours. However, after 2 months, attendance was back to around 30 because the gameplay of v1.02, although better than v1.0, was still flawed to the degree that it was not up to the original STW's standard of play. In Feb 2002, TosaInu and I decided to see if we could fully implement the type of gameplay we had envisioned for v1.02 since we were on the team who had produced v1.02. We assembled an unofficial team of about 10 top players to work on it. By May, we had the Sengoku Period game working to the team's satisfaction. Work on the Mongol Period was continually stymied in my opinion by the extreme cost of the Mongol cav. Those costs had been increased by CA in a v1.01 patch which was their attempt to fixup the MP game balance, and we were stuck with them since there is no way to alter unit costs in WE/MI. With the release of MTW scheduled for Aug 2002, we decided to release our unofficial v1.03 at the beginning of June even though the Mongol/Japanese balance was still not correct after a month of work. I'm not exagerating when I say that Tosa and I worked on this almost every day from Feb until the end of May.

Tosa and I are very pleased with the Sengoku Period gameplay of v1.03. No rules are needed to play the game, and every unit is worth it's cost. I found that a high percentage of 3v3 and 4v4 battles in v1.03 become epic struggles, and I saved quite a few replays of those battles. The 1v1 and 2v2 v1.03 games I played were all better than any v1.02 game I had played. Despite this I don't think more than 30 players used v1.03 that summer because it's not an official patch. Of course, I don't see it that way because I know both v1.02 and v1.03 are player made patches. In both cases, the teams involved put in a very solid effort to improve the game. Some players preferred the v1.02, some viewed the v1.03 as splitting the community, and some just didn't want to put in effort to learn the new gameplay. I thought Annie summed up the difference between the two very well when she said v1.02 is a shoot 'n rush game and v1.03 is a flanking game. Sometime following the release of MTW, MizuToda (TodasWarrior) reworked the Mongols in WE/MI v1.03 to make them stronger. He released that as v1.05. I can say that the Mongols are quite fearsome in his v1.05, but I haven't played it enough to form an opinion on how well balanced it is. The Japanese units in v1.05 are the same as in v1.03.

This whole series of games, STW, WE/MI and MTW all require a large investment of time to master. I would say MTW takes the longest because there are so many more units and different factions. After over 1000 battles, I'm still learning stuff in MTW. A big problem with coming back to WE/MI or STW after playing MTW is your timing is off. WE/MI is a lot faster.

I wouldn't say WE/MI v1.02 requires less skill than WE/MI v1.03. However, imbalance in a game like this tends to limit what units you can take against an opponent of equal strength. I think you'll find that you can successfully use a wide range of armies in WE/MI v1.03. Instead of you having to adapt to a limited army composition as you have to do in WE/MI v1.02, you can in v1.03 take an army that is more suited to your playing style without incuring an inherent disadvantage. In that sense, the game becomes more fun as you explore various armies.

Tosa and I were accused of making the v1.03 to suit our playing style, but I think it suits a wide range of playing styles. A consequence of making the rock, paper, scissors very strong and eliminating super units was that balanced armies perform quite well vs unbalanced ones. Tosa and I do usually use balanced armies, so you could say v1.03 suits our style, but the balanced army doesn't win hands down against an unbalanced one. As I said, with 4 yari samurai, you'll be had pressed to defeat all cav or nearly all cav army, and you really need at least 6 yari samurai to tilt the odds in your favor. However, if you take 6 yari samurai, you are no longer quite balanced, and a sword heavy army is going to give you a lot of trouble. The nice thing about a balanced army is that it gives you tactical flexibility, and that's why we tend to take them. Having a strong rock. paper, scissors makes choosing the correct unit matchups very clear cut. To my way of thinking, tactical flexibility and clear cut matchups enhance the gameplay. Historically oriented players tend not to like this because real battles were actually more like mass confusion or completely onesided once the fighting started. If you like that, you may like MTW because the rock, paper, scissors is not as strong, and there is a lot of confusion with the routing in all directions.

[Krasturak]

You did a great job with 1.03.

[RTKLamorak]

Although i played relatively few 1.03 games i have to say it was very well done to. I very much liked the balances as a whole and it definietly aloud for more variety in unit selection, as yukki said without putting yourself at a distinct disadvantage. Unfortunately at that stage of MI's life there just wasnt enough players who adapted to the 1.03 stats and i didnt really get to use them as much as id have liked. I think one of the main advantages to many of MTW (not game related) is the sheer number of people playing. of course sometimes u can be waiting ages for a game in mtw, and also there are to many high florin games but i really do love playing TotalWar when there is 100-150+ people in foyer, and u get game after game with people that you know/like.

Anyways i wont get sucked into the argument mtw vs stw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif, however il definitely make an effort to come on this sunday and "be a sam on sunday" again. hopefully i make it and see some of you old school friends there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[TenkiSoratoti]

My favourite is cavalry turning, good to just to get on the side of no dachi and warrior monks.