View Full Version : Since it got international, opinions
Meet Laura, soon at Ophra.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/Laura.jpg
She's 13 year old and wants to set the record for being the youngest person in the world that ever sailed around the world. Going to school isn't a choice here by law, but her dad is fine with it as long as she does her homework when being in the middle of the ocean. I think he's an idiot this is extemely dangerous and if I had a daughter even talking about such an adventure I would chain her to whatever is at hand. But it's not my daughter and I don't want to put this bird in a cage, Laura is extremely confident that she can do it, and kinda think as well she's a force of nature. But the care industry disagrees and wants to take her from her parents if they allow it, and to be honest they kinda have a point even if it makes me sick, who in their right minds would allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own. But I say go for it. Thoughts?
rory_20_uk
09-08-2009, 13:30
Assess Gillick competence or the Fraser guidelines. If she understands the action and potential consequence then fine - treat her as an adult. If she does not, then treat her as a child.
If you can refuse a heart transplant on these grounds which is certain death if you refuse, then this seems reasonable here.
~:smoking:
Banquo's Ghost
09-08-2009, 13:34
I tend to agree with you.
Some of the commentary I have read suggests that the parents are of the pushy, achievement through their children types, which I personally loathe. However, I don't really know the child or the parents except through the lens of the media.
Nobody should care who the youngest to sail round the world is. Even my cat has done it, alongside being the 5,112th feline to climb Everest without oxygen or kibbles.
However, a full and proper education is far more important to a 13 year old than ten seconds at the end of a new bulletin. Of course the girl wants to be "famous" rather than going to school.
It seems a bit odd that the state has to step in, and I can't say I'm in favour of that. Nonetheless, I can see the argument, as there is a very good chance that a young girl will not have the stamina to battle an unexpected storm, and may well end up in the news for the wrong reasons. I can't imagine why a parent would allow the chance of that happening. One can't stop them once they are eighteen, but one ought to try when they are still dependent.
I tend to agree with you.
That would be hard since I am undecided. There could be a discussion on how far the responsibility of the state goes. In a way kids taken at the age of 12 and returned at the age of 18.
Kadagar_AV
09-08-2009, 15:25
I'm also torn on this issue...
I think I know to little about sailing to be able to calculate the dangers...
Any good sailors in here who can comment on her chances, and of what the risks are?
13? At 13 you shut up, listen and get an education.
Frivolous sailing around the world all by herself at 13. Gah.
Her parents are idiots, so of course the state steps in.
A few slaps for parents and child, back to school and no more of this nonsense.
How did this ever become an issue in the first place?
Louis VI the Fat
09-08-2009, 15:34
who in their right minds would allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own?Who? Today's trophy parents. Spend a Saterday afternoon at a football field, listen to the screaming dads, and I think that may come a long way to explain what this is about.
If she wouldn't be the youngest ever, would her parents even consider letting her go on this trip? I think not.
How did this ever become an issue in the first place?
Well someone refused her to sail around the world. It isn't very dutch to refuse someone to do something. But allowing this might just be a little much Laura is a national catastrophe she is testing our limits.
Any good sailors in here who can comment on her chances, and of what the risks are?
I am not a good sailor, but it's very very dangerous
Rhyfelwyr
09-08-2009, 17:36
The parents are behind this. She's too young to sail round the world, don't allow it.
As a minor, there's nothing wrong with the state getting involved. And this isn't one of those 'should the state get involved' discussions revolving around something petty, they want her to sail round the world on her own, that's ridiculous.
Let the girl sail. It's what she does best, probably better than most grown men.
they want her to sail round the world on her own, that's ridiculous.
Why.
But you can dance on the waves, salt on your lips, the wind in your hair, if you stand tall you have sealegs my dear.
^-oldie dutch poem
Go Laura, she probably isn't going to survive it but if she does I hope she becomes 18.
I saw no problem at all, untill the last line when you said "on her own".
If she was with her father/an expert at this sort of thing which was confident it could be done, I think it would be a one in a lifetime opportunity if that is what they really wanted and it would be pretty easy to catch up with school work at that age, so that isn't a problem.
The problem part the part she is on her own, this sets alarm bells off everywhere.
I saw no problem at all, untill the last line when you said "on her own".
If she was with her father/an expert at this sort of thing which was confident it could be done, I think it would be a one in a lifetime opportunity if that is what they really wanted and it would be pretty easy to catch up with school work at that age, so that isn't a problem.
The problem part the part she is on her own, this sets alarm bells off everywhere.
I don't see a problem here. In this day and age she can have a clear line of communication with her father who can shadow her every move in a rescue ship.
macsen rufus
09-08-2009, 20:40
I'm sure if the situation was reversed, and the parents went off sailing, and left her 'home alone', there would be an army of social workers kicking down the door... well, it would be in the UK, I guess the Netherlands wouldn't be much different.
Like BG I've only seen this through the media lens, so don't know how much this is Laura's idea, how much it is pushy parent syndrome. I applaud her guts and spirit and capability, but it's not just natural dangers out there. Better, more experienced, and fully armed yachtsmen have come croppers at the hands of some very nasty people - what they'd do with a 13yo girl doesn't bear thinking about, given the opportunity.
Weighing the worst that could happen (fill the blank with your own twisted imagination) against the best that could happen (15 minutes fame...) then I think it's a crazy idea. It's not like it's going to be a major breakthrough for mankind or anything...
It's teenagers' job to push the envelope and seek danger and all that. It's parents' job to keep them alive 'til they're adults.
I don't see a problem here. In this day and age she can have a clear line of communication with her father who can shadow her every move in a rescue ship.
Actually, that is possible. What are the rules though?
Gregoshi
09-08-2009, 21:19
Who is going to check her homework? :study:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-08-2009, 21:31
I see no reason why she shouldn't do it. She can go back for an extra year of school if that's a concern. She can be tracked with GPS and be kept in constant link with rescue services and family if necessary. As long as she knows what she's doing, there is no reason why she shouldn't, and certainly no reason for the state to step in. This is a matter for her and her family. My parents would not have let me do this, but I am not her and her parents are not my parents, so it is not my call to make.
Also,if she is experienced, she has one thing other kids don't have. Access to money and it's this money which makes the world go round.
Tribesman
09-08-2009, 22:04
So all this story really started when she sailed into Lowestoft on a day out and some local busybody got upset that there was a teenager on a boat and reported her to the British social services
Crazed Rabbit
09-08-2009, 22:12
So all this story really started when she sailed into Lowestoft on a day out and some local busybody got upset that there was a teenager on a boat and reported her to the British social services
Really?! Good grief, I fear for the British nation. Well, even more than I did before.
CR
She was busted before yes, at least she came as far as England at the age of 11.
Tribesman
09-09-2009, 01:52
Really?! Good grief, I fear for the British nation. Well, even more than I did before.
Where in America an unaccompanied minor just turning up in port would get the immigration services and the social services
Good grief I fear for the american nation:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Gregoshi
09-09-2009, 02:03
Where in America an unaccompanied minor just turning up in port would get the immigration services and the social services
Good grief I fear for the american nation:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
How far we have fallen. Just last year people had a fear "of" America. Now they simply fear "for" us. :shame:
pevergreen
09-09-2009, 10:18
In a related story, a 17 Aussie girl had been planning this for months and months, around the world trip and so forth.
She ran into a ship today.
A FREAKING SHIP.
So shes back to land and repairs before starting off. How much is this costing me?
Crashing a tiny yacht into a massive bulk carrier would seem to be more than just a setback to most people, but not to an Australian teenager seeking to become the youngest woman to sail solo around the world.
Jessica Watson, 16, was conducting sea trials in her 10-metre (32 foot) yacht when the collision with the ship occurred in the early hours of Wednesday on her first night at sea.
http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-42324220090909?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
Hosakawa Tito
09-09-2009, 10:52
While I admire her pluck and competitive spirit there will be plenty of time for sailing round the world after her schooling.
Breaking some Guinness Book record should not take precedence over her education unless she can accomplish it when school's not in session. The sea and Mother Nature is not to be taken lightly, especially by a 13 year old who lacks experience for such an endeavor. Better to train up with less arduous trips first.
Who is going to check her homework? :study:
Spoken like a Dad who has heard this all before. Who indeed!
HopAlongBunny
09-09-2009, 13:28
Good luck to her.
:yes:
I don't see a problem here. In this day and age she can have a clear line of communication with her father who can shadow her every move in a rescue ship.
Completely agree. Let her go. If they accept and plan for the risks, then of course, let her do it. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something so unique, don't ruin the lass's dream!
What is the current record? 15? 16? It'd take a good 9+ months to complete such a trip, maybe she could delay so as to gain more experience first?
Seamus Fermanagh
09-09-2009, 21:10
While my country enshrines the inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, only the lives of children have been protected on an individual basis through our laws. Unemancipated minors are not deemed to be at "liberty" but the custodial charges of their parents. The pursuit of happiness is rather subjective definitionally, and therefore cannot be truly denied nor promoted by the law-- and there is no way to insure that the pursuit is successful.
If her parents are willing, and are willing to make the necessary arrangements for her education, I don't believe she could be held back from doing this. I would never allow it for my own child, but their child is not mine.
Also, if she is legally, emancipated, she could do this of her own choice and nobody could gainsay it.
What is the applicable Dutch Law or superceding European Union law?
Looks like her competition is out of the race for now... (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/solo-sailor-teen-jessica-watson-in-dramatic-sea-crash/story-e6freuy9-1225770844272) :juggle2:
she's 13...which means she doesn´t know :daisy: all!
now sit down, shut up and do as you´re told before I go upside your head!
if she wants to kill herself she's free to do so after she turns 18.
What is the applicable Dutch Law.
We don't have any laws against 13 year old sailing around the world, but going to school is mandatory. She is currently investigated by a shrink if she is psychologically up for it. I say let her go since when are we such pussies we need a 13 year old girl to show us :2thumbsup:
What about home-schooling? Since that is basically how it would work for the year.
What about home-schooling? Since that is basically how it would work for the year.
VERBOTEN, school is mandatory until you are 16. But just because you aren't allowed to do something doesn't mean you should do it anyway, we are dutch we are teh law.
Tribesman
09-11-2009, 11:14
VERBOTEN, school is mandatory until you are 16.
No it isn't.
No it isn't.
It really is, but exceptions are made all the time.
Tribesman
09-11-2009, 11:36
Into Pantomime season early this year
It really is
Oh no it isn't
Beefy187
09-11-2009, 11:44
She may have a good chance of succeeding.
What I worry more is achieving ones life time goal too early.
She will have to keep topping her dream in order to keep her motivation high.
But sailing around the world is some what big enough.
Well, here they say 10 years are mandatory but I've heard of people who stopped school after primary school(4 years), so I have no idea how well it is enforced or how exactly it works. Maybe the dutch system is similarly foolproof. :laugh4:
I
Oh no it isn't
Oh yes it is
http://www.leerplicht.net/
Leerplicht geldt voor kinderen van 5 tot 18 jaar. Vanaf de eerste dag van de maand nadat een kind 5 jaar wordt tot het einde van het schooljaar waarin het 16 jaar is geworden is een kind leerplichtig.
Now I don't have to translate that do I.
Tribesman
09-11-2009, 12:03
Now I don't have to translate that do I.
no you don't,
Can you translate this instead?
Nederlandse Vereniging voor Thuisonderwijs
Then explain why home school cannot be VERBOTEN:yes:
Then again you already know it isn't actually and there are exceptions to mandatory education which means it isn't mandatory and home schooling is not forbidden.
So....Oh no it isn't:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
pevergreen
09-11-2009, 12:10
Looks like her competition is out of the race for now... (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/solo-sailor-teen-jessica-watson-in-dramatic-sea-crash/story-e6freuy9-1225770844272) :juggle2:
Did you completely ignore me? :beam:
no you don't,
Can you translate this instead?
Nederlandse Vereniging voor Thuisonderwijs
Then explain why home school cannot be VERBOTEN:yes:
Then again you already know it isn't actually and there are exceptions to mandatory education which means it isn't mandatory and home schooling is not forbidden.
So....Oh no it isn't:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Yes as I said exceptions are being made, you don't understands how law works here, it's a guide rather than something set in stone. Weed is illegal, prostitution is illegal, homeschooling is illegal. It works both ways, they are trying to 'discourage' her by actually applying the law for a change.
Tribesman
09-11-2009, 13:40
you don't understands how law works here
I am afraid it is you who doesn't know your own laws.
Look.
Weed is illegal, prostitution is illegal, homeschooling is illegal.
Weedis illegal, prostitution is legal and home schooling is not illegal.
Not bad going Frag , you only got 2 out of 3 wrong:oops:
No I am not wrong, it is allowed under certain circumstances but that is not a rule but the very specifics. It's no but really yes but at least more yes then yes is no and only admittingly yes. I do.
Tribesman
09-11-2009, 15:13
No I am not wrong
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
You claims concerning the law invloved the words "forbidden" and "mandatory", since neither is true then you are wrong. Just like you are wrong about 2 out of the 3 examples of legality you mentioned.
It's no but really yes but at least more yes then yes is no and only admittingly yes.
So its "no but yes but no but yes but no"
Well Done Frag , you have turned into Vicky Pollard:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Don't get the clickey-fingers because of me I heard it really hurts, but still going to school until the age of sixteen is mandatory. And exceptions are being made. Did I say something wrong or is it just you and only you?
Louis VI the Fat
09-11-2009, 15:36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-jcDRFId68&feature=related
:sweatdrop:
That's horrible.
Yakety Sax ftw! :2thumbsup:
Did you completely ignore me? :beam:
....Hm? I think someone spoke, some hours ago. Not sure though.
In any case, provided that she is tracked 24/7 along her trip, she shouldn't really be in any danger. Taking into account the publicity of this story already, it shouldn't be hard for her to find sponsors to provide for everything she needs (GPS, Satelite Phone or whatever, a crew to monitor her constantly, etc.), as the sponsors will surely get a share of the publicity she'll earn. That being so, she'll be fine and she should be allowed to sail around the world if its really her wish.
Did you completely ignore me? :beam:
:oops: Missed that, sorry. :shame:
Major Robert Dump
09-14-2009, 00:56
She is going to sneak some friends on, have a party, and probably come back pregnant. If I were her dad I would not let her go.
HoreTore
09-15-2009, 19:27
Really?! Good grief, I fear for the British nation. Well, even more than I did before.
CR
Oh come on. There are curfews in american cities...
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2009, 19:30
Oh come on. There are curfews in american cities...
I've heard of them, but could you be a little more specific?
CR
HoreTore
09-15-2009, 19:52
I've heard of them, but could you be a little more specific?
What do you want specified? Your state have imposed a restriction on innocent people's right to freedom of movement, without the citizens in question having done anything wrong at all. A penalty without a crime, nice.
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2009, 19:54
What do you want specified? Your state have imposed a restriction on innocent people's right to freedom of movement, without the citizens in question having done anything wrong at all. A penalty without a crime, nice.
Washington state? You've got to be more detailed. As in, links.
CR
HoreTore
09-15-2009, 20:14
Washington state? You've got to be more detailed. As in, links.
CR
No, when I say "state", I always refer to "nationstate". So I meant the US. All of it.
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curfew) is one linkie.
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2009, 20:27
The wikipedia article is still vague and doesn't specify anything:
Curfew law in the United States is usually a matter of state law, rather than federal law. However, the Constitution guarantees certain rights, which have been applied to the states through the 14th Amendment. Hence, any state's curfew law may be overruled and struck down if, for example, it violates the teen's 1st, 4th or 14th Amendment rights (or the parent's 9th Amendment right to privacy in parenting). Nonetheless, curfews are set by state and local governments. They vary by state and even by county or municipality. In some cities there are curfews for persons under the age of 18.
Furthermore, it's the government doing these things. While bad, governmental actions are removed from the citizenry. The reason I'm appalled at what tribesy said is because it shows a private citizen consciously acting to support a nanny-state. It's the people who are sheepishly supporting the nanny state.
CR
HoreTore
09-15-2009, 21:14
The wikipedia article is still vague and doesn't specify anything:
I know. And I'm sorry, I don't know the specifics. All I know, is that there are different versions of curfews for minors in many places in the US.
Furthermore, it's the government doing these things. While bad, governmental actions are removed from the citizenry. The reason I'm appalled at what tribesy said is because it shows a private citizen consciously acting to support a nanny-state. It's the people who are sheepishly supporting the nanny state.
Hmmm.....
Don't get the clickey-fingers because of me I heard it really hurts, but still going to school until the age of sixteen is mandatory.
This was raised to eightteen not to long ago.
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