Gods and Generals

[Forward Observer]

Anyone else looking forward to the release of the prequel to the Gettysburg movie---Gods and Generals? Since this movie is actually planned in January for theatrical release rather than cable, has a bigger budget, and encompasses more than just the battle aspects of war, it should be much better.

Jeff Daniels reprises his role as Joshua Chamberlain, Robert Duvall (a much better choice than Sheen) plays Lee, and a much underrated actor--Stephen Lang plays Stonewall Jackson. (He played Pickett in the first movie)

I just got both of the books that these movies are based on for my birthday, and have just started reading "Killer Angels" first



Lang as Jackson
http://godsandgenerals.warnerbros.com/img/photobook/images/5.jpg

Daniels and C T Howell as the Chamberlains
http://godsandgenerals.warnerbros.com/img/photobook/images/6.jpg

Duvall as Lee
http://godsandgenerals.warnerbros.com/img/photobook/images/1.jpg


By the way, there is a third movie in pre-production that will make up a trilogy. It is called "Last Full Measure" and will follow the events after Gettysburg.

And after that the director (Ron Maxwell) is planning a new Joan of Arc movie. He was very critical of the "Messenger" and has vowed to do the story justice.

Cheers

P.S. There is also a "Gods and General" PC game in the works.

[The Scourge]

So they're makeing Gods and Generals.Great to hear.Wonderful book.And Duvall should be great as Lee.One of the best(Imo:) American Actors around today.
When are they going to get round to doing Gore Vidals Lincon?

[candidgamera]

FO:

Short Answer: yes very much. Wasn't even aware of it till last spring. (between Star Trek movie, Two Towers and this - going to be spending more money soon than usual on movies)

Definitely agreed on Duvall as Lee. That 3rd pic only confirms that opinion more - stunning. I think he'll capture the gravity, sadness, and seriousness of Lee much better. Wish we could get a film out that portrayed Grant and Sherman on the same level.

Lang: agreed also - I really liked his Pickett. Thought one of the more powerful (almost mystical) scenes was his "Up Men, and to your posts . . ." He was in one of my other all time favorite movies: Tombstone.

Trivia: name two others from Gettysburg in that one.

Nice to see Daniels back as Chamberlin too.

Am curious on why Maxwell didn't like Messenger. Like it simply because it has French playing French and made by French. Movies seem to be more often from a British perspective,bias - maybe what makes some of us into Anglophiles. Kind of why I really liked Brotherhood of the Wolf (fascinating flick if you haven't seen it, guess based somewhat on historical fact, different period, but strangely relevant to Medieval TW).

Was it because Joan was portrayed as being maybe delusional and hysteric?

Sure wish he or someone else would take on and do a serious treatment set in French & Indian Wars/American Rev. on the quality level of Last of the Mohicans. (Patriot sure doesn't count http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )

Sidebar:
My sister lives right off Antietam (Fox's Gap), where they've been shooting some of this - been in her local papers. Had to miss the big 140th re-enactment because of work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif . The irony is she lives in a house that's on pre-Civil War maps, and there was a Union brigade commander that fought right in/around Fox's Gap with our last name - probably no relation - during B. of S. Mountain - a PA/NY/MI regimented one. Told an interesting story of being out in the yard on a cold, gray, misty fall day, and how some confederate cavalry re-enactors rode by - like something from a Twilight Zone/Outer Limits episode.

[Forward Observer]

Candidgamera:

Tombstone is one of my all time favorite westerns, and the best dramatized account of the Earps versus the Clantons and McLaurys ever put on film. It is also pretty accurate from what I have read, and much better than that crappy Wyatt Earp movie that Costner did, although Dennis Quaid was spot-on as Doc Holiday. Not as entertaining as Val Kilmer's portrayal, just more accurate.

I had forgotten that Lang played Ike Clanton.

As to your trivia question. I remembered that Sam Elliot was in both movies, but I had to cheat and do a search to come up with Buck Taylor, unless there was another that I missed.

Now my trivia question. What role was Buck Taylor known for on TV?

Lastly here is a link to a review of the "Messenger" by Mr.
Maxwell. He makes a lot of valid points.

http://www.ronmaxwell.com/messenger.html

The same site has more info on the upcoming movies

Cheers

[candidgamera]

FO:

You got me on Buck Taylor. Might have mixed up, but in Gettysburg he's Colonel Gamble. Union Cavalry deploying and its other scenes, also among my favorite parts of Gettysburg.

Thing I like about Tombstone is how Kurt Russel plays Earp - his seriousness and expression - where he talks about how he felt having to kill a man, trying to talk his brothers out of being town sheriffs.

Thanks for the link.

[candidgamera]

FO:

Read Messenger review - boy, pretty scathing - makes me really want to see what he does with the subject, and who he'll cast as Joan. Kind of makes me step back from what I said earlier about French making something about French.
Love to read what he'd say about Patriot - http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Forward Observer]

Buck Taylor, who played Turkey Creek Jack Johnson in Tombstone, also played Newly O'Brien, the town gunsmith and sometimes deputy to Matt Dillon on the long running TV series Gunsmoke from 1967 to 1975. He has done mostly westerns since---Stuff like the Sacketts and the Rough Riders TV movie.

I sort of liked "The Patriot". Of course the plot seemed to hinge around revenge, and made the British out to be evil villains, but the cinematography, costumes, and big battle scenes made up for the trite plot IMHO. Don't know what Maxwell would think of it.

My favorite Revolutionary war period movie is the film version of "Drums along the Mohawk" It was made in 1939, but was in Technicolor and starred Henry Fonda. It was directed by John Ford. Ford directed some of John Wayne's better westerns. Parts of it were actually shown in my high school history classes as a historical teaching aid. The last time I saw it, I thought it still held up pretty well as an entertaining historical based action/drama film. Check it out if you can find it for rent.

Cheers

[The Scourge]

Quote[/b] (candidgamera @ Nov. 23 2002,18:21)]Definitely agreed on Duvall as Lee. That 3rd pic only confirms that opinion more - stunning. I think he'll capture the gravity, sadness, and seriousness of Lee much better. Wish we could get a film out that portrayed Grant and Sherman on the same level.
Ironically I think Martain Sheen could be a perfect Grant.
That slightly rough around the edges ,with the haunted look in his eyes.
What you think?

[Jagger]

Anybody see Robert Duvall as Gus McCrae in "Lonesome Dove".

If you haven't seen this movie, you are missing a true classic. Texas Ranger, Gus McCrae, is Duvall's best character in one of the best movies I have ever seen.

[Forward Observer]

[QUOTE] Ironically I think Martain Sheen could be a perfect Grant.
That slightly rough around the edges ,with the haunted look in his eyes.
What you think?

Hadn't thought about it until now, but yes, I think Sheen could be a good choice as Grant. Much closer in phyical stature too. I like most of Sheen's work, but he just didn't look physically right in the role of Lee.

I always like to try to mentally cast or recast actors in the roles of my favorite movies and books. Unfortunately, most of my choices end up being actors who have either passed away or have gotten way to old to play the role. Sigh

[Hosakawa Tito]

FO, I've read those four books, and I recommend them. I suggest you read Gone for Soldiers first, only because chronologically speaking, it starts in the Mexican - American War and describes the developement of R. E. Lee and others before they were to become famous in the War between the States. If the movie is as good as the books then I can't wait till it comes out.

[candidgamera]

Quote[/b] (Forward Observer @ Nov. 24 2002,11:55)][QUOTE] Ironically I think Martain Sheen could be a perfect Grant.
That slightly rough around the edges ,with the haunted look in his eyes.
What you think?

Hadn't thought about it until now, but yes, I think Sheen could be a good choice as Grant. Much closer in phyical stature too. I like most of Sheen's work, but he just didn't look physically right in the role of Lee.

I always like to try to mentally cast or recast actors in the roles of my favorite movies and books. Unfortunately, most of my choices end up being actors who have either passed away or have gotten way to old to play the role. Sigh
Scourge, FO:

Am going to have to think about that one a bit.

Who would you have as Sherman?

For that matter McClellan?

[dclare4]

Definitely agree with Robert Duvall as Lee. Man he looks like the painting of Old Bobby Lee So we're at Chancellorsville and he dismounts Traveller and mutters "I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning... smells like Victory" Hehehe Seriously, I think Duvall as Lee is a definite step in the right direction.

The Patriot's costumes, cinematography were definitely nonpareil but I hated all the flag-waving (you can get your point across without being jingoistic you know. All of that flag waving and the cheesy ending definitely detracted from the movie) and the script was butchered by those ID4 people (Devlin and Emmerich). Check out the ORIGINAL SCRIPT written by Braveheart/Man in the Iron Mask veteran Randall Wallace. If you carped about Braveheart you won't with the Patriot. He did his homework on this and its well paced and I love the ending better than the hokey one they tacked on to the original movie. Its so sad because cast wise it was superb - Jason Isaacs IS one of the most EVIL movie villains I've ever seen and he deserved a better ending. Actually up to the point where Mel G is depressed over Heath Ledgers death and wants to quit its really pretty good. After that its ALL DOWN HILL.

Some Patriot changes include the fictionalization of Marion and Tarleton's entire command - its nice that they used these two icons as diametrical opposites that would embody the war in the South (though they REALLY cleaned up Francis Marion's act - he was a slaveowner like most respectable Southern gents&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and they totally merged the roles of all British cavalry into this one generic group under 'Tavington' - British Legion, 17th Dragoons, Tarleton's Legion. I think the whole concept of gentleman's war, etc and the usual snotty stereotypical British arrogance is wearing pretty thin. Perhaps for Howe or Gentleman Johnny but Cornwallis seemed (from his historical record in Ireland and India) to be quite adept at dealing with hostile natives. The Colonel (who plays gay Marine colonel Fitts in American Beauty) there is actually supposed to be Light Horse Harry Lee and the child who he names after Mel Gibson's son at the very end of the movie was, in the original script, named (of course) ROBERT (who grows up to be Robert Duvall, err Robert E. Lee) - another historical point sacrificed to make this stupid movie. Then theres the whole Yorktown sequence which is now totally anti-climactic all the way to the rebuilding thing. The symbolism is too obvious, too blatant and with the death battle between Tavington and Mel at Cowpens you don't really give a rip. You might as well leave the theater after Mel sticks two bayonets into Jason Isaacs. Check out the original script for the original ending - you see, the part where Colonel Harry Lee yells to Mel that the line is wavering and Mel grabs the flag (the only relevant time that he should have grabbed the flag in the whole movie - too much flag waving) and steadies the line SHOULD HAVE BEEN a choice - personal revenge or the good of the army and country? Mel chooses to sacrifice his personal revenge for the good of the country and steadies the line and what do those rich schmucks Devlin and Emmerich do? They reward him by letting him have at Tavington in the same battle. So there was never really any choice after all. Whats up with that??? Well originally, Mel meets George Washington (and his false teeth) and the Yorktown campaign is actually fought with Tavington present (as Tarleton's dragoons historically were on the North peninsula of Yorktown) and Mel finishes them off in a style reminiscent of the whole Fort Wilderness episode he keeps having nightmares about. Its SOOOOOOO much better, gives you a feeling of catharsis like when Inigo Montoya kills the Six Fingered Man in Princess Bride ("I want my father back you SOB") and makes for a better movie. Devlin and Emmerich handled Randall's surprisingly well written and historically accurate script like a clubbed musket rather than a fine rapier.

Read Maxwell's gripes about La Pucelle. Very relevant topics. Personally for me the battle scenes, while grand were often confusing, dizzying almost and he used too much close up moving camera (which creates a very dizzying sensation) during his fights. Its really sad that the movie turned out as it did - not to sound right wing or anything but you can't expect someone with no faith to understand how faith works. The most important thing for movies is to be honest about their topics. If he was skeptical there is ample place to show skepticism (in the churchmen and nobles for instance) but to completely revamp history into this post-modernist shtick is to just do injustice to it. People WERE superstitious and Joan was thought of not as some crazy delusional kid by the English but as a witch which was pretty serious stuff. How can you understand how people feel and will react if you haven't walked a mile in their shoes? Unfortunately, Besson takes poor St Joan and makes her a vehicle for promoting his own atheistic and post-modernist ideas.

Gloucester

[dclare4]

Hmmm... Martin Sheen as GRANT and Robert Duvall as LEE?

I can see it now... Appomatox Court House... and suddenly Ride of the Valkeries blares out on the Confederate Bands as Lee rides up at the head of the recently deceased JEB Stuart's cavalry.

"I love the smell of flapjacks in the morning... smells like... breakfast"

LOL
Gloucester

[Forward Observer]

Quote[/b] (candidgamera @ Nov. 25 2002,20:45)]Scourge, FO:

Am going to have to think about that one a bit.

Who would you have as Sherman?

For that matter McClellan?
Although handsome, McClellan is pretty non-descript in looks.
No one comes to mind to play him.

On the other hand for Sherman, I would have picked Harry Morgan. He's the actor who used to play Colonel Potter on MASH, but he's probably way too old for the part now.

dclare4. Nice analysis of the Patriot, and I agree the ending was just a bit too Hollywood.

To all: Shaara has a new book out, and this one is about the Revoluionary war. I don't remember the title, but I saw it at Sam's Club Warehouse last night. Might just have to get it too.

Cheers

[Forward Observer]

It's called "The Glorious Cause" and it is also a sequel.

Here's some info at Shaara web site:

http://jeffshaara.com/glorycause.html

Cheers

[Gregoshi]

I'm really looking forward to G&G.

How about Matthew Broderick as McClellan?

I wasn't initially crazy about Duvall playing Lee but I have to admit he looks more like Lee than Sheen did.

I've been to the Gettysburg reenactments for the last 3-4 years and they have talks from some of the actors about the movie Gettysburg and the making of G&G. Patrick Gorman (Hood) and Patrick Falci (AP Hill & historical consultant) were the guests this year. Here are some tidbits from their talk:

1) Robert Duvall was Maxwell's orginal choice to play Lee in Gettysburg. Duvall wanted to play the role but he was already committed to other projects. This time around it was Sheen who was tied up doing West Wing. Enter Duvall.

2) We were assured that the budget for beards has increased for G&G. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

3) It took Ted Turner 3 takes to get his death scene right in the Pickett's charge sequence.

4) The scene in Gettysburg just prior to Pickett's charge when Lee is riding along and the men start cheering him was unscripted. Martin Sheen was doing an interview for Entertainment Tonight in costume. After the interview, he rode over to where they were filming Pickett's charge. As he rode up to the reenactors, they saw him and spontaneously started cheering. Director Maxwell realized a special moment was happening and told the cameramen to roll the film. If you notice that scene starts with the men already cheering Lee. Maxwell felt it was too good to not include it in the film. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hurry up February.

[The Scourge]

Quote[/b] (candidgamera @ Nov. 25 2002,20:45)]Who would you have as Sherman?

For that matter McClellan?
I too love the casting game but I'm going to have to dig out the old books and have a think about this one.

[candidgamera]

Gregoshi:

Broderick: maybe, but still a bit young in carriage - can't imagine him being arrogant enough to be McClellan. Really liked his portrayal in Glory, just the right tone.

Patriot:
Liked some of the spectacle factor, but so much of it was too sappy for me. What's sad is the real history is as compelling as any movie screen play needs to be: Cowpens, Greene, ect. Revolution has a lot of untapped material.
My current period piece favorite: Brotherhood of the Wolf.

Agreed on the ID4 comments: look what they did with that - does anybody really believe 13# warheads on AMRAAM's are going to bring down 15 mile in diameter space ships, its a simple question of mass