Obama Extends Patriot Act: Hope dashed, Change Only Cosmetic

[Strike For The South]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_patriot_act

It would be funny if we wern't broke and enslaved.\

The title should read to extend. But whatever

"Promise everything, deliver nothing." -Napoleon Bonaparte

[Kadagar_AV]

USA USA USA

[Sasaki Kojiro]

USA USA USA

This would be a nice bit of satire if it weren't SFTS who started this thread...since he did it's obvious you misread him.


Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, that the administration is willing to consider stronger civil rights protections in the new law "provided that they do not undermine the effectiveness of these important (provisions)."

Leahy responded with a statement saying it is important for the administration and Congress to "work together to ensure that we protect both our national security and our civil liberties."

The committee has scheduled a hearing next week on the Patriot Act.

Looks like we won't really know what's up the new version of the law is out.

[Kadagar_AV]

Oh, I read it as the patriot act will still be going strong...

[drone]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_patriot_act

It would be funny if we wern't broke and enslaved.\

The title should read to extend. But whatever

"Promise everything, deliver nothing." -Napoleon Bonaparte

Strike, why do you hate freedom/change/hope?

[LittleGrizzly]

And this is why you should never support crap like this in the first place...

The republicans who supported this from the start are equally culpable to the spineless democrats who didn't get rid of it...

I had a bit of hope for Obama (only a little) but its shrinking...

Can I just say D and R both suck... need an L or a G in there ~;)

[Fragony]

Hilarious, defcon1 for Euro journalists, probably will get the same treatment as the protests. -Absolute silence-.

HAIL OBAMA OUR SAVIOUR

[Lord Winter]

Looks like we won't really know what's up the new version of the law is out.

I don't know if it's possible to create a bill that keeps the "effective parts" and protects civil liberties. Also, could someone explain why we need the patriot act and how pre 9/11 law was not significant?

[Beskar]

I don't know if it's possible to create a bill that keeps the "effective parts" and protects civil liberties. Also, could someone explain why we need the patriot act and how pre 9/11 law was not significant?

Those laws didn't allow you to be sent to FEMA conce.. oops, said too much.

[Vuk]

Well, America voted him in, they will get what they deserve. :P

[Furunculus]

Hilarious, defcon1 for Euro journalists, probably will get the same treatment as the protests. -Absolute silence-.

HAIL OBAMA OUR SAVIOUR

:laugh4: lol, too true.

[Viking]

:laugh4: lol, too true.

It isn't. :oops:

A couple of examples:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/utenriks/1.6772574
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8252939.stm

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hilarious, defcon1 for Euro journalists, probably will get the same treatment as the protests. -Absolute silence-.

HAIL OBAMA OUR SAVIOURI thought you only read fair and balanced news / rightwing populist blogoshpere?


:laugh4: lol, too true.I thought you took your news from many sources?



However both may be, to quote Adrian:

Surprise! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8709962)

The Gruinad runs a lenghty article about this development. As does the entire rest of the the leftist Euro propaganda machine.

[Fragony]

pwned

[Samurai Waki]

I can't decide whether Bush was the best thing to ever happen to American Socialism, or if Obama is the worst thing to ever happen to American Conservativism.

[Whacker]

Well, America voted him in, they will get what they deserve. :P

Right, because McCain would NEVER have re-upped this abomination either. :rolleyes:

[Furunculus]

I thought you only read fair and balanced news / rightwing populist blogoshpere?

I thought you took your news from many sources?



However both may be, to quote Adrian:

Surprise! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8709962)

The Gruinad runs a lenghty article about this development. As does the entire rest of the the leftist Euro propaganda machine.

i haven't read any news media about this, only here, Fragony's comment just amused me because I know many bush haters who eagerly awaited the chosen one to descend from athiest heaven, and they haven't uttered a peep about it, wheras previously i had to put up with long winded denunciations on the topic. :)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Right, because McCain would NEVER have re-upped this abomination either. :rolleyes:

Aside from certain efforts to coordinate intelligence between various bureaus and allow pooled information, which should be separately authorized by legislation, a good bit of the Patriot Act was passed, and re-authorized, in order to further the efforts of the War on Terror. It was not designed, nor should it be allowed to become, permanent.

CERTAINLY McCain would have asked for a continuance of the Patriot Act provisions, as has Obama.

The difference is that McCain would have continued the War on Terror. Obama is in the process of altering the US stance on fighting terrorism towards the "treat it as a crime while enhancing defensive measures" approach preferred but much of the American political left (among others, including the clear majority of our Nato allies).

In this context, where little or no military action will be utilized aside from the occasional sniping of a terrorist leader with a UAV-fired Hellfire, many of these wartime provisions SHOULD be discarded as incompatible with a "crime and punishment" model for dealing with terrorism.

If you are fighting a war, you enact those measures -- for the duration -- that are necessary to effectively promulgating that war.

If you are policing crime, you must use those procedures and methods that are acceptable for dealing with crimes of all stripes.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Obama is hilarious. Striking down gay marriage lawsuits, agreeing with me on foreign policy, extending the patriot act. If we could only get him to shut his yap and can it on abortion, he'd be a Republican President.

[Beskar]

Marriage should become de-legalised. Then people would only get married for love and nothing else.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Marriage should become de-legalised. Then people would only get married for love and nothing else.

Hospital visitation rights should be extended to everyone? Your roomate, whoever he/she is, should get some of your possessions if you die without writing a will?

[Beskar]

Hospital visitation rights should be extended to everyone? Your roomate, whoever he/she is, should get some of your possessions if you die without writing a will?

And that makes sense how? Hospital Visitation Rights are "Friends and Family" so basically everyone can go anyway and nothing stopping them. The choice is to the patient.

And if they haven't written a will, they are an idiot. Also, in your argument, how do you know that the room mate wouldn't get some of the possessions anyway?

[Husar]

So you call me an idiot because I haven't written a will yet? :inquisitive:

[LittleGrizzly]

The difference is that McCain would have continued the War on Terror. Obama is in the process of altering the US stance on fighting terrorism towards the "treat it as a crime while enhancing defensive measures" approach preferred but much of the American political left (among others, including the clear majority of our Nato allies).

In this context, where little or no military action will be utilized aside from the occasional sniping of a terrorist leader with a UAV-fired Hellfire, many of these wartime provisions SHOULD be discarded as incompatible with a "crime and punishment" model for dealing with terrorism.

If you are fighting a war, you enact those measures -- for the duration -- that are necessary to effectively promulgating that war.

If you are policing crime, you must use those procedures and methods that are acceptable for dealing with crimes of all stripes.

Before I say this let me just say I don't like the Patriot Act and Obama's okay as Presidents go but I have no paticular love for him either...

I believe the reason for the patriot act is to help stop terrorist acts occuring, whether you are winding down your current wars or not at this moment rather a seperate issue, especially considering the wars are more about leaving stable states now rather than fighting terrorism*. To make my point 9/11 happened when you had a rather isolationist president and weren't pursuing any wars so having the ability to fight terrorism is not directly linked to currently fighting a war...

*You are fighting an isurgency which is using terrorism but this is slightly different to fighting the terrorists that were threatening America... either you created the terrorists when you went to Iraq or there was a huge hidden army of Iraqi terrorists that no one ever noticed. Though of course there is help from abroad also through the terrorists that were fighting you... and the argument could be made that this distracted from America. But i think the boost to recruitment, finance and the like would more than make up the shortfall...

I am mainly referring to Iraq but even with Afghanastan it applies in some areas...

[Aemilius Paulus]

So you call me an idiot because I haven't written a will yet? :inquisitive:
Statistically speaking, 20-something year old males probably have higher chances of dying prematurely than men in their thirties, or even early 40s, so who knows? First thing I am going to do when I turn 18 is to sign a will stating my body shall be donated to science after it dies, and harvested for organs.

I simply cannot stand the thought of my parents having what they would like, a religious funeral, with some lying preacher rambling on about what a terrific kid I was, me being a strong atheist (which may or may not change in the future, but for now I am where I am, and I would rather have people treat me for what I am and not what the wish for me to be)... Those preachers will patronise Hitler on his funeral, if they had the chance to host it, and they were requested and/or paid well enough... At least most of the Southern Baptist clergy here would do such thing.

Not that I dislike them for that, but I would be sickened if it was carried out during my funeral.