I'm not satisfied

[Claudio]

Played as Austria until 1702, turned it off.

Ottomans declare war on first turn, no army to fight me with. Poland declares war on first turn, makes no attempt at aggression. Prussia declares war second turn, is already fighting Poland with all its army. I take -8 diplomatic relations with every nation on earth for attempting to assassinate an Ottoman religious agent twice.

I turned it off when Prussia attacked my northern army (3 line inf, a general, 1 unit cavalry, 1 demi-cannon) with a single unit of demi-cannons.

I'll go back to Age of Empires (1996) where the AI knows what it's doing, and can even defeat me quite often.

When's 1.5 coming out?

[peacemaker]

It's austria.

Austria is surrounded by bijillions of potential enemies, of COURSE people are going to want to DOW you. Many of those nations are potentially just raising armies to send. You try to assassinate an enemy agent and you're SURPRISED that people are mad at you for it?

Maybe I'm in a bad mood because my patch stopped ETW from booting up, but I seriously think you need to go more than a few years into the campaign.

It's not too big of a surprise when the single unit of cannons attacked your army, it had no idea what your army was. The AI only battled because its ability to retreat is dismal; otherwise it would have escaped knowing that you have an army approaching.

[pevergreen]

You played a few turns?

:laugh4:

You think the AI in AoE is good? the AI in all of those games is rather terrible.

[Didz]

I know what you mean Claudio, I've actually gone back to playing Alexander TW, the AI is much more challenging. Some people will put up with any rubbish, as long as it looks pretty.

[Claudio]

I abandoned the campaign as Austria and began again as Great Britain. I have played until 1710 this time, and although there are great improvements, I find the AI to be severely uncompromising still. First of all I find myself forced into a war of annihlation with the Huron Confederacy. They declared war immediately. After defeating a large army in that province they own to the south, Fort Saint Sault something or other, they made no attempt at peace, and refused to accept peace when I offered it. I took the fort and let a few turns pass. After several more turns they offered peace if I would return their province to them, which I gladly did. They declared war the very next turn. Obviously, just like before, I'm going to have to annihlate them, even though I don't want their raggedy pathetic little worthless provinces that never go above 4 or 5 thousand population, even if you play to 1799.

The UP were destroyed on the third turn by France, which was depressing. I've taken a -20 relationship hit with the entire world because I declined to go to war with my ally Portugal against the Maratha Confederacy, which is ridiculous. I should have taken -20 with Portugal only, not the entire world, because the Maratha Confederacy are my biggest trading partner, after UP got destroyed on turn 3.

By 1705 the 13 colonies had been annihlated by the Cherokee and the US had appeared, who of course declared war on me when I took back some colonies that the Cherokee robbed me of, and attacked me with their raggedy army of militia, and refuse peace even though I'm knocking on the door of their only province, which is undefended.

The Barbecue states refuse peace and trade, and at 1710 are STILL at war with the entire map, except for the Ottoman empire. I haven't yet seen an example of the AI making peace, and the Barbary states insist on sending single Galleys to blockade my trading port in England, which is utterly pointless and nonsensical.

It all makes me think that the AI is still behaving exactly like it used to... Declare war on the human if he borders with you, and never accept peace.

[Didz]

I did manage to complete an Austrian campaign, but only by playing like a psychotic idiot.

The trick seems to be to maintain massive garrissons in every provincial capital (the quality is less in important to the AI than the quantity) that dissuades some nations from declaring war, and encourages the AI to adopt Ghenkis Khan style raiding tactic's instead of attacking your cities.

You can then expliot this by pouncing on the small scattered raiding units and defeating their armies in detail rather than have a major battle. You will end up at war with everyone around you whatever you do so diplomacy is pointless.

Just smash everyone and everything around you.

Don't bother offering peace because even if they accept it they will declare war again in a few turns, just destroy everyone, until you have no enemies left alive. If you have any protectorates or reliable allies (very unlikely) then you can gift these wasted provinces to them so that they act as a buffer state.

I managed to use Wurtemburg and Bavaria in this role quite successfully in my campaign.

Oh! and forget trade and the Austrian Navy, certainly in the early stages of the game they are just a financial drain on your economy and likely to attract even more hostility at you from other naval powers. I actually scuttled my navy and forgot about it.

One idea I did have but haven't actually tried yet, is starting the Austrian Campaign by declaring war of all the American and Indian factions that you know you will never ever meet. I'm pretty sure that this will fool the player hate routine into thinking it has the upper hand, and might trick it into leaving you alone for longer in Europe.

Might be worth a try anyway, but basically forget strategy, ETW is just a slugfest. Fortunately, its pretty hard to lose a battle, in ETW so as long as you can keep your cities open and producing troops you should eventually win.

[Durallan]

Maybe I should try an Austrian Campaign, but I have to say I don't see the problems you guys are, just a by the way claudio, the Barbary states start off at war with EVERYONE. Theyre meant to be arabic/african pirates, they just now accept peace occaisonally whereas they never ever did before.

I have to say that in my 40 years worth of a campaign so far, that I have seen the AI make peace, they don't always but I know that they do. France Declared war on my protectorate the United States, and took a province, shortly after i wondered why they werent attacking each other, it was because they made peace. The Native americans have always attacked everyone, although the Iroquis Confederacy asked for peace with me after they were down to one province, I don't really know about allies, I haven't really tried allies since Medieval 2 Total War, but every single one of the Protectorates I've had that I have not declared war on, have been completely reliable, I just wish that all their alliances and wars would reset when they become protectorates and that they could not declare war without asking you if they could first, and that nations had to look at their relations with you before declaring war on your protectorates.

By the way, why would the whole world not look at you suspiciously, after declining joining an ally that asked you to join them in a war against its enemy? Well i dunno there, theres poitns for and against I suppose. But, I actually in this version can CHOOSE who I want to be at war with, I'm down to being at war with Russia and Bavaria and I just wiped out Bavaria and Courland has taken Moscow from Russia!

I'm very impressed with this verison of ETW so far, Great Britian even just launched a naval invasion and took Boston from the United States, after I wiped them off America 20 years ago! I do notice that the AI does have a tendency to sometimes be incredibly careful in its protection of its territories and sometimes forgetting to put any troops in some at all,

This game still needs some work, but it is a FAR CRY from version 1.3 in my opinion. Main reason being I started a game day before the patch came out and I continued playing it with the 1.4 and I realise that could mean some thigns don't work right but you know, it feels like a completely different game from what I was playing the day before, and it is actually fun now.

[aimlesswanderer]

I started playing again after a 3+ month break, having heard that the AI was now not as bad. The DoWs with anyone who has even heard of you were just stupid, as was the AI which never ever wanted peace. So, I started as Spain (haven't played before) on H/H. UP declared first turn, no surprise. Within 5 years, without me making any aggressive moves whatsoever (had no money to do anything) Italian States, Genoa, Savoy, Morocco, GB, Westphalia, and probably a few others did too. About 1708 Portugal decided to join in.

My limited armies have conducted a number of heroic defensive battles, but I have lost Naples, and now the Flanders garrison is at 30% strength thanks to UP and Westphalia attacking the same turn. I fought off Portugal, losing over $1k of troops there, while Morocco sits in Gibraltar. Liguria was attacked twice in the last 2 turns by Genoa (annihilated but lost 50% troops) then Italian States (down to 20% strength). Next turn if Savoy attack and are even vaguely competent I am a gonner. It'll take me 4+ turns to just pay for the replenishment of the troops lost last turn, while I get attacked a few times before the replenishment actually works.

GB had a half stack of line inf invasion force land next to Florida, so I gave it to the Barbary pirates, for an alliance, since I had no chance. The GB army is stumped and just sits there next to the defenceless city. I have managed to take GB's islands, after a few tough battles. However, my trade to Spain is somehow being blocked, despite there being no pirating or blockades - the trade line even says there is 1800+ trade going out of the Americas (and in at Spain), but my treasury gets none of it somehow.

I am currently at war with everyone I border except France and Venice. So perhaps the DoW problem is still there?

After hearing about the improved diplomacy I thought that after taking Jamaica I could give it back to GB for peace, but no, not even with their other island thrown in. After I wiped out the Genoese army for the 3rd time? Nope. I can't even make a few desperately needed K by selling off a few acquired Caribbean islands to anyone.

I will play on at least for a bit, but it seems like I should give up on Flanders (give to France I guess) and Liguria, and expand from Spain proper. It's just not possible to defend so many places when you're at war with everyone - especially since revenue is so low.

The change with the units is good, and the only other thing I have noticed is the government buildings.

[hoof]

Aimlesswanderer, when you have a chance, could you try again on "normal" campaign difficulty? I'm always suspicious of the "harder" difficulties, because often "harder" can mean everyone hates you (and goes to war with you). One thing that CA has *not* made clear is if DoW triggers are influenced by difficulty settings. Other games (non-CA games especially) in the past have done the "gang up on the player" routine on the higher difficulties (e.g. DoW you, but ally all the other AI's). Call of Duty 4 had a habit of making all the AI preferrentially target you when you were in a firefight if you played the hard difficulty, but were "normal" in the normal diffuclty.

The reason I ask is that I want to get a feel for how the AI is w/o the "hard/very-hard" influences. The other day, someone was complaining that a sloop took out his fifth rate in a boarding action, but mentioned that he was playing "very-hard" difficulty. Well, duh, of course the AI crewmembers would take out a crew twice their size on VH, they have such huge benefits in combat/morale over you, and your guys have morale penalties. I don't doubt that it's similar on the campaign, and I doubt it's simply limited to giving the AI huge cash bonuses. Why wouldn't the AI be more "aggressive" and reckless to you on hard or very hard?

So to get a baseline, we *really* need to test on "normal" difficulty. Anything else is just a waste of time because what we might be seeing is simply the difficulty level modifiers on diplomacy.

[rvg]

Tried a fresh post 1.4 campaign with the Dutch. Had 3 false starts so far, as the A.I. usually beats me into the ground within 4-10 turns. I actually kinda like it, since now early survival is no longer a given like it used to be. It's a struggle from day one (at least with the Dutch. Prussia is still a cakewalk, provided that you take care and don't over-extend yourself).

One small gripe that I have is regarding alliances: while alliances are a reasonably good insurance against being backstabbed by an A.I. nation, the allies are kind of reluctant to hold up their end of the bargain if a strong nation DOWs me. In other words, allies are only willing to help me if I don't really need their help and are likely to turn their back on me if their participation in a war would actually make alot of difference.

[Seyavash]

The UP were destroyed on the third turn by France, which was depressing. I've taken a -20 relationship hit with the entire world because I declined to go to war with my ally Portugal against the Maratha Confederacy, which is ridiculous. I should have taken -20 with Portugal only, not the entire world, because the Maratha Confederacy are my biggest trading partner, after UP got destroyed on turn 3..

I disagree. you should take a worldwide hit if you do not help your allies as you have shown you are not a reliable nation and thus others should be more reluctant to make agreements with you. Your reputation should suffer. The issue I had was being penalized when you did help an ally as you could be under 1.3.

[peacemaker]

Just typed up a huge long post, but I realized that all of my responses were mainly that the DOW issue is still extremely present in bordering nations. Perhaps the hard difficulty is also a factor; I'm not sure.

[NimitsTexan]

More DoWs from higher difficulty levels have been pretty standard in at least since MTW2. IN 1.3, I would always get about twice as many DoWs in the first 10 years, and twice as fast, while playing as Britain, on the Hard as opposed to the Normal Diffculty level. It makes sense that the pattern would continue in ETW.

[Durallan]

yes if you aren't playing on normal campaign difficulty, you should really expect more DoW's, its not like CA are turning up the intelligence knob on harder difficulties, unless any of CA's staff would like to tell me I'm wrong... I remember hearing that diplomatically, harder difficulty levels mean nations hate you more slightly each turn or something, that might have been for medieval 2, but it sounds like someone was getting a real beating from the AI! sounds challenging!

[aimlesswanderer]

I always play on H/H, so I am used to the greater difficulty, but I heard that there were less DoWs after this patch - however this does not seem to be the case. If they didn't actually tweak that then I may not bother. It is challenging for me on H/H if I'm only at war with about half the countries I border. But I can't handle everyone, especially not at the start when I have no revenue, and Spain's territories are all over the place.

I might have to try again and consolidate my holdings.

[Fisherking]

I will have to start a campaign on an easy setting to see if it makes a difference in all of the early DoWs.

Right from the start, and I mean on turn 1 you get enough to make you challenged and the player hate is still there in the upper difficulties.

There was a huge difference in a Normal difficulty save game started in 1.3.1 and a Hard campaign started new in 1.4.

It may ease off in the mid game but I am not there yet, nor is there any assurance that I will live that long. The game is much more challenging without being frustrating as it was in the previous renditions.

I would not say that everything is perfect but it is a major, major improvement and more enjoyable to play. So if you have not tried a campaign in 1.4 then most of your gripes have been eliminated.

That said, I would not start a prestige campaign on VH/VH and expect to win in a cake walk. Everything seems hard won in this model and if you are one to auto resolve then expect a supper hard won victory. I don’t think there has been more than two battles, land or sea, that I felt confident in auto resolving.

[Marten]

I have to say, the campaigns i played over the last few month were mostly very different in feel and experience. I play with "non-standard" startpos.esf, always bit modified by myself (changes of victory conditions, more money for all, etc...) and always playing on "normal".

I was very disappointed in the first weeks, but after playing some campaigns to the end: E:TW is good, is fun - not outstanding but fun. And 1.4 makes it really better in my opinion, it's a step forward. Now i really care about the diplo screen and my relationships to other nations. Before 1.4 that wasn't essential for winning or losing the campaign.

We all are conditioned by CA to a specific gameplay in all TW Games. So we all expect the AI to do some weird things, after 1.4 it surprised me sometimes (in different ways), but that's what i wanted.

Only one thing really annoys me after the last patch: I am german, i like my armies well-organized. :yes: But the recruitment now with all these unit cards in disorder is a pain ... :clown:

[Fisherking]

Glad to see you back on the boards Marten!!:2thumbsup:

Like I said some place, I need to start a new Austrian Campaign to see if it is fixed and has a decent unit line up...:whip:

[Fisherking]

A double post, but I thought the information important.


I started a campaign as Austria, and yes it is a tough faction to play. I have only just played a few turns but so far I have had NO DoWs. I started on easy though there are some things to know about the game that have not been discussed enough in my opinion.

At every difficulty setting the first turn diplomatic deals and rearrangement of your ministers is extremely important. If you neglect these aspects of the game then everyone is going to DoW your little butt. Acquiring trade agreements, protectorates, and alliances in the early game set the tone for most of what fallows.

Particularly as Austria and Spain you need to make some agreement with everyone you can on your borders or you get DoWs out the yeing yang. If you have agreements then you may never have to worry about them.

In the current campaign I asked Poland for a trade agreement. They are usually the first to DoW you in most circumstances. I was surprised when they counter offered with Alliance, Trade Agreement, and paid Cash! I excepted because the region of theirs I need is usually taken by the Prussians early on.

When I asked Prussia for a trade agreement, they also wanted an alliance to go with it but they wanted me to pay 4400 so I said no. They are my primary rival at any rate. I did get a trade agreement two turns later but they won't keep that too long, I am sure.

The difficulty level may have some effect but much less than you would think. I have managed to avoid many of the crazy DoWs in the other versions buy keeping a high level head minister and making all the agreements I could with bordering factions.

[peacemaker]

As Prussia N/N I recieved no DOW's for the first 5-10 years. Poland-Lithuania actually asked for military access but I refused. They then came to me offering a military alliance, and so I decided not to invade them. Austria finally DOW'ed me and so I started charging them-still keeping a slight garrison. Poland still hasn't betrayed me, and I don't intend to invade them until I'm finished with austria.

[Beskar]

Don't play on VH unless you want it as VH.

If you want the campaign to be more calmer, have that at a lower level.

[Fisherking]

The things I am dissatisfied with are:


The Austrian troop line up, it was best in 1.1 It was well grounded and accurate for the most part. The tinkering and fiddling with the Jaegers and taking away rifles is just not right.:no:


Mortar accuracy is still down at 10%. Fine, it is changed for multiplayer so people don’t use too many and slaughter the other guy. But the fact remains that they were accurate weapons but currently less effective than it was in 1.3.1 and less accurate than rockets! If they wanted to nerff it then cut the firepower or take it out all together. Don’t give us what was a highly useful weapon that is unusable in the game. As it stands you can’t even hit a fort with one!:smash:


And no French Dragoons in Europe, I mean why not? If it is the police bonus then take it a way from the French, but no Dragoons or light Dragoons! What is that?:inquisitive:

[Abokasee]

You don't know AI stupidity till you've been DoW'd by Barvia, when you have Prussia as your ally, and empire stretches from moscow to vienna and everything in between, and you took out Austria in 6 turns after they DoW'd you too.
However that was a couple patches back, now the AI has smartened up considerably since then.

[Beskar]

I am having an interesting game and its good to see the AI far more active. I started a new campaign (normal/very hard) as Marathas. France took out UP in 1702 which allowed me to get the island. I took two provinces first turn from the Mulgul Empire and sued for peace a couple of years later, then Mysore take out Goa, and with my army near by, I claim Goa from them, then take out Mysore. Mugul Empire requested trade, so I am raking in some money from that. I used about 20 turns securing trade, building up armed forces and doing lots of research. Currently I got highest research and strongest army, chart topping in prestige and in a couple of turns when Fire by Rank is done, I will sent upon my campaign to invade and wipe out weak the Mugul Empire, leaving me as sole ruler of India.

After that, it's a case of building up the area just how I like it and deciding whether or not to make a play for Europe or the America's.