View Full Version : Ethipian Agema (or Guard)
Fluvius Camillus
09-24-2009, 23:58
Hello!
I was wondering if this unit is still around! I encountered them in my pre1.0 Saba campaign. They were ethiopians if I am correct, wielded a two handed axe (with two blades) and had padded bright white armour. I dont know how accurate this description is but this is all i remember. They were recruitable by the Ptolemaioi and Saba, lvl 4 regional barrack or maybe 3...
This image is the closest to what I am describing. Their name was Ethiopikon Agema=ish~D
http://www.wmwiki.com/hosted/xgm/xgmreadme/ETHIOPIAN_AXEMAN_INFO.PNG
So are these units removed, taken out (like the Dosidataskeli) or still there? I have never encountered them anymore since then.
Thank you!
~Fluvius
They were taken out a while back, the model and skin is still in the game but unlike the Dosidataskeli there is no EDU or EDB entries for them.
chenkai11
09-25-2009, 01:59
Why it was taken out?
Jebivjetar
09-25-2009, 07:45
As Carthage i hire Ethipian Agema as mercenaries when i fight Ptolies, but they are swordsmen, not axemen in 1.2
Fluvius Camillus
09-25-2009, 10:32
As Carthage i hire Ethipian Agema as mercenaries when i fight Ptolies, but they are swordsmen, not axemen in 1.2
Yea those are quite common, but the unit I am talking about was more elite. I think those swordsmen now have the original voice of the two handed axemen.
~Fluvius
athanaric
09-25-2009, 11:16
Why it was taken out?
Wrong timeframe IIRC. Same goes for their Germanic brethren who were left out too.
Wrong timeframe IIRC. Same goes for their Germanic brethren who were left out too.
Although you are correct on the Merjoz, the Ptolemaic Ethiopian guard was replaced because new evidence indicated that they were a ceremonial rather than battlefield unit. IIRC they were instituted by one of the later Ptolemean kings. As far as I know, two-handed Germanic axes are a late Viking/Saxon development, so the Merjoz unit was almost a millennium out of the timeframe.
Fluvius Camillus
09-26-2009, 15:30
Although you are correct on the Merjoz, the Ptolemaic Ethiopian guard was replaced because new evidence indicated that they were a ceremonial rather than battlefield unit. IIRC they were instituted by one of the later Ptolemean kings. As far as I know, two-handed Germanic axes are a late Viking/Saxon development, so the Merjoz unit was almost a millennium out of the timeframe.
Ok thank you, that answers my question.
~Fluvius
Phalanx300
09-26-2009, 17:55
Although you are correct on the Merjoz, the Ptolemaic Ethiopian guard was replaced because new evidence indicated that they were a ceremonial rather than battlefield unit. IIRC they were instituted by one of the later Ptolemean kings. As far as I know, two-handed Germanic axes are a late Viking/Saxon development, so the Merjoz unit was almost a millennium out of the timeframe.
Yes, though it was probably rarely used like the bow, it was an ordinary day tool so it was kindoff the weapon you'd only take if there was nothing better since weapons were status.
And I also asked on the TWC, you said that Germanics would also wear the Saex but I always thought it was purely a Saxon/Viking weapon. Then again its essentially an simple knife which even Germanics probably would have used as a side arm(just imagine your spear breaking).
Yes, though it was probably rarely used like the bow, it was an ordinary day tool so it was kindoff the weapon you'd only take if there was nothing better since weapons were status.
Two-handed axes are no tools, they are specialist weapons. IIRC they were mainly used by huscarles, the elite forces of Viking and Saxon warlords. For that matter normal axes weren't exactly the poor-man's melee-weapon either: medieval men-at-arms would have used one-handed war-axes next to swords, maces, etc. An axe hasn't got the reach or versatility of a sword, but it's quite handy and less likely to break.
About the saex, I can't really answer you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.
Phalanx300
09-26-2009, 19:16
Two-handed axes are no tools, they are specialist weapons. IIRC they were mainly used by huscarles, the elite forces of Viking and Saxon warlords. For that matter normal axes weren't exactly the poor-man's melee-weapon either: medieval men-at-arms would have used one-handed war-axes next to swords, maces, etc. An axe hasn't got the reach or versatility of a sword, but it's quite handy and less likely to break.
About the saex, I can't really answer you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.
I mean that a wood cutting axe was an ordinary days weapon just like the bow, your weapon ment status.
Wait, so noone got the idea of using 2-handed axes until the Vikings showed up? :inquisitive:
Aemilius Paulus
09-26-2009, 20:17
Wait, so noone got the idea of using 2-handed axes until the Vikings showed up? :inquisitive:
Well, is it not an exceedingly arduous task to attempt to defend oneself with an two-handed axe? Spears are mentioned always breaking in the books I have read about Ancient Greece. That was a problem. Now imagine if you have no shield, ad the axe is all you have to parry blows. Not to mention, you are not fighting in a dense formation, so you have but yourself to look out for yourself. One handed-axe seems as a much more viable weapon.
Not to mention, in the Antiquity you did not have the same proliferation of maille around Germania as you did with the Norse. By the times of the Norse raiders, maille was quite common in Anglia, France, as well as in the Nordic domains. Now you needed better weapons, and the trade-off between offensive and defensive power was less unbalanced.
Or so I think. I myself am not very well informed in the Norse studies. Anything I wrote about the Norse is speculation, although the proliferation of maille was a true phenomenon.
I am not an expert on Viking weapon-use either, but I think you are correct. In fact, there is still some debate on how these two-handed axes were used. Probably they were a team weapon, with one axe-bearer and ordinarily-equipped fighter to cover the axeman should his attack fail.
However, given the emphasis on shieldwalls in Viking and Saxon tactics, they must have been used (or at least against) dense formations.
The General
09-27-2009, 12:20
I once talked to a Viking reenactor who used an (two-handed) axe and he told that the most important thing was to keep the axe in constant motion, because if he lost momentum he was screwed. Without momentum that axe was too slow to do anything useful, or so I gathered, and thus he had to keep swinging the axe, keeping it perpetual motion and constant attack.
The best defense is a good offense, I suppose.
Phalanx300
09-27-2009, 14:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0GcYcS8eE&feature=related
:2thumbsup:
Apázlinemjó
09-27-2009, 16:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0GcYcS8eE&feature=related
:2thumbsup:
That guy is quite skilled.
But check this, I didn't know the axes are THAT strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqSipRAIm8&feature=related
Phalanx300
09-27-2009, 16:53
That guy is quite skilled.
But check this, I didn't know the axes are THAT strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqSipRAIm8&feature=related
Then you should watch the Deadliest Warrior Viking Vs Samurai episode, the Longaxe weapon test, two swings and he cut a body from top to bottum.
Fluvius Camillus
09-27-2009, 17:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0GcYcS8eE&feature=related
:2thumbsup:
That guy looks skilled, if he had a halberd point on the end it would even be more effective, because he uses a stab like move a lot.
Then you should watch the Deadliest Warrior Viking Vs Samurai episode, the Longaxe weapon test, two swings and he cut a body from top to bottum.
Seen them all! Still, Deadliest Warrior, Late Medieval French Knight vs Pirate, was even better! The halberd of the knight on the gel torso, pure carnage!:smash:
~Fluvius
Phalanx300
09-27-2009, 17:59
That guy looks skilled, if he had a halberd point on the end it would even be more effective, because he uses a stab like move a lot.
I gues thats how the Halbert came to be, combining spear and long axe.
Seen them all! Still, Deadliest Warrior, Late Medieval French Knight vs Pirate, was even better! The halberd of the knight on the gel torso, pure carnage!:smash:
My favourite was Spartan vs Ninja, kindoff obvious eh. :sweatdrop: Can't wait for season 2! :beam:
Aemilius Paulus
09-27-2009, 20:06
I once talked to a Viking reenactor who used an (two-handed) axe and he told that the most important thing was to keep the axe in constant motion, because if he lost momentum he was screwed. Without momentum that axe was too slow to do anything useful, or so I gathered, and thus he had to keep swinging the axe, keeping it perpetual motion and constant attack.
Oh yes, the bloke could not have put it better. I have done of wood-chopping with a large two-hander in Russia (not the standard ones - this axe was home-made, much larger, for chopping trunks and not just splitting logs) and I could not agree more. I mean, I cannot claim to share even a fraction of his expertise, but still.
It is very difficult to get the axe going - the only choice you have is to keep moving it. Otherwise, trying to start a blow with zero initial momentum is tiring and sluggish. No time for either in a real battle.
That guy is quite skilled.
But check this, I didn't know the axes are THAT strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqSipRAIm8&feature=related
whoever goes against this in battle is sure between two chairs right about now:clown:
I was taught how to use just such a tool by my uncle-you can chop a good sized branch in a few cuts. I can cut a 3 incher in a or two good hits, and I'm not huskarl muscular (more wirery)
ziegenpeter
09-29-2009, 15:36
That guy looks skilled, if he had a halberd point on the end it would even be more effective, because he uses a stab like move a lot
Actually, the upper part of the Daneaxe was quite pointy. Its a very cool versatile weapon, you can pull down enemies shields while some buddy at your side uses the gap to finish the enemy off.
What Aemilius wrote about the armor - weapon balance is also true from the other side: Not only were heavier arms necessary to kill heavily armored fighters, but only a better armor could also give you back some of the protection you lose by not having a shield.
And btw, there is a difference between axes as tools and axes as weapons. Tools tend to be havier. Its obvius that a chunk of wood doesnt try to avoid you and stab back, when you miss. :clown:
Phalanx300
10-01-2009, 19:19
And btw, there is a difference between axes as tools and axes as weapons. Tools tend to be havier. Its obvius that a chunk of wood doesnt try to avoid you and stab back, when you miss. :clown:
Well thats true, though if some raiding party comes in what do you grab if you only got tools? Your axe or some kitchen knife? :clown:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.