Mrs Hitler

[Fragony]

Now don't look too surprised,

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26135072-401,00.html

grab your peanuts

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe he's still alive :help:

[Kralizec]

Or maybe Hitler really was a woman with a fake moustache :book:

[Vladimir]

Sorry, but the death of an unknown young woman just makes it more saddening.

[Hooahguy]

what i have heard is that after he shot himself the Russians cremated him and spread his ashes all over so there would be no grave for the nazis to mourn at.
so there could be no skull fragment? maybe the report of the cremation of everything but the skull fragment is false and really everything was cremated?

[Aemilius Paulus]

what i have heard is that after he shot himself the Russians cremated him and spread his ashes all over so there would be no grave for the nazis to mourn at.

Almost true. Russians kept his remains, which the Nazis simply could not cremate despite pouring so much petrol on him. From what I read though, his remains were given back to Germany in '92 and the Germans cremated them, scattering the ashes on the Elbe. However, I went on Wikipedia and it says he was cremated and scattered in 1970. Go figure :shrug:. There are about 5-10 official versions of the fate of his remains.

BTW, I read a Fox news article on his purported skull, and they said Neither does Mr Bellantoni believe the skull belongs to Braun, Hitler's long-time girlfriend and last-minute wife, who is thought to have killed herself by taking cyanide and would therefore not have had a bullet wound - as this skull has. Just a note of warning - do not believe this phooey. Hitler simultaneously shot himself in the temple and bit a cyanide capsule.

[Samurai Waki]

I always knew that mean old geezer who ran the Candy Shoppe when I was young had to have to been Hitler...

[Kadagar_AV]

Or maybe Hitler really was a woman with a fake moustache :book:

Any woman would have better taste than wearing that moustache...

[miotas]

You guys are a little slow, Hitler is living in Springfield. http://download.lardlad.com/sounds/season13/sweets17.mp3 (turn down your speakers, it's kind of loud)

[Husar]

Any woman would have better taste than wearing that moustache...

Uhm, the women back then loved him, he was very popular among them and seen as a handsome guy...

[Fragony]

You guys are a little slow, Hitler is living in Springfield. http://download.lardlad.com/sounds/season13/sweets17.mp3 (turn down your speakers, it's kind of loud)

That can't be as he works at my network provider

[Jolt]

https://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/Joltie/lol.jpg

[Banquo's Ghost]

I thought everyone knew he was staying in a boarding house in Minehead (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg).

[miotas]

No we're all wrong, he's hiding in australia as a nanny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwBSjq2kRiQ&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzrVRaBkGc&feature=related

[Gregoshi]

No we're all wrong, he's hiding in australia as a nanny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwBSjq2kRiQ&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzrVRaBkGc&feature=related
:laugh4: Good stuff!!

[HoreTore]

Sorry, but the death of an unknown young woman just makes it more saddening.

Uh......

WHAT?!

Please tell me I'm reading this wrong and that you do not feel sorry for those who killed themselves in Hitlers bunker in 1945. Please.

Oh, and somebody please link that Monty Python skit where Hitler, Göring and the rest of the gang is hiding in a hotel....

[Gregoshi]

Oh, and somebody please link that Monty Python skit where Hitler, Göring and the rest of the gang is hiding in a hotel....
Uh, check the link in BG's post a few above yours...

[FactionHeir]

According to the guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/27/adolf-hitler-suicide-skull-fragment

It could have been a random skull that was dug up, but it does point towards Soviets finding the first part of Hitler's skull that was subsequently lost, and having identified his teeth with his dentist.
Whether that part is true or not is another question of course, though I doubt he escaped.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Uh......

WHAT?!

Please tell me I'm reading this wrong and that you do not feel sorry for those who killed themselves in Hitlers bunker in 1945. Please.
For all you know she was an innocent secretary/maid... This is debatable. Many people believed in NSDAP, specifically in Hitler. Not all were living monstrosities. If I lived during that time in Germany, I would support Hitler with all my heart and mind.

[Hooahguy]

For all you know she was an innocent secretary/maid... This is debatable. Many people believed in NSDAP, specifically in Hitler. Not all were living monstrosities. If I lived during that time in Germany, I would support Hitler with all my heart and mind.
ah yes... to be another mindless pawn. :yes:

[Meneldil]

For all you know she was an innocent secretary/maid... This is debatable. Many people believed in NSDAP, specifically in Hitler. Not all were living monstrosities. If I lived during that time in Germany, I would support Hitler with all my heart and mind.

I disagree. All members of the NSDAP were idiots and should have been shot in 1945.

Edit: Actually, if I had been living through WWII and had witnessed by myself all the horrors committed by Nazi Germany, I would probably say that Germany itself should have been turned into a wasteland in 1945.

[Prussian to the Iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzrVRaBkGc&feature=related

omg that was awesome!!!

"You cannot kill something off just because you do not agree with it!!!":laugh4::laugh4:

[HoreTore]

For all you know she was an innocent secretary/maid... This is debatable. Many people believed in NSDAP, specifically in Hitler. Not all were living monstrosities. If I lived during that time in Germany, I would support Hitler with all my heart and mind.

Nonsense.

The people in the führer-bunker weren't just some random hobo's rounded up at the bus station. They were the top dawgs, and their hoes. All of them were hardcore supporters of Hitler and his wars, and for that they deserve a bullet.

EDIT: And you would've supported Hitler, you say? So... You like killing and torturing people then?

[Vladimir]

Me thinks this Norwegian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling)doth protest too loudly.

[Aemilius Paulus]

ah yes... to be another mindless pawn. :yes:
No more mindless than you following Republicans :shrug:. It is very common for far-right or far-left patriots to follow parties mindlessly. You are far right. In fact, I rate the Nazi propaganda as much more plausible than the American conservative one. Now, of course, the Republicans are not at all evil, but their persuasive prowess is lower than that of NSDAP.

I am a fiscal conservative, but I would rather support the Pimp n' Stoner party then Republicans. My two main grievances are their anti-intellectualism and religious fervour. Democrats have plenty of their own problems, but I always saw them as less radical in their persuasion. AFAIK, there was much less "Our President is a Nazi Muslim who supports Nazi policy" and "death panels" during the Bush era. Sure, certain hot-headed Dems called President Bush an A-hole and a dumb:daisy:, but compared to the lunatic accusations thrust at Obama, all that is rather tame.

Look, Hooah. You are a nationalist fella. Nothing wrong with that. I am a very strong Russian nationalist myself. But the thing is, I am not in denial of anything. You seemingly are when you made that post. Your nationalism is one that is foremost proud of your ethnic heritage. You stand by Israel no matter how dubious the IDF actions were. I am not saying anything about them. IDF may be right or wrong, more likely both.

But if you were to be born in Germany, and you grew up in the same manner, your unquestionable love of Israel would be transferred to unquestionable love of Germany. You would be the first one to join SS if they accepted you. Now, do not take this as an insult, please. It is not. I understand you will be rightfully indignant about me saying such thing about you, a Jew above all things. You have to open up your mind here. And so do the mods, before they consider giving me a two-day vacation.

I too would have joined SS if my patriotism was on par with yours. Quite likely, I would have even joined given my current level of nationalism, although I do like to think I my nationalism is rational, in the sense that it is not militaristic. I do not dream of joining the Russian Army, and you seemed to indicate your yearning to join IDF, so you seem to be more receptive to military service. Whatever the case, hindsight is not the approach here. Your mind would have been indoctrinated with propaganda, and there is no more accessible a mind than a nationalist one.

So please, cut the “mindless pawn” crap. It is preposterous. Most of us are “mindless pawns” to one degree or another.


I disagree. All members of the NSDAP were idiots and should have been shot in 1945.

Edit: Actually, if I had been living through WWII and had witnessed by myself all the horrors committed by Nazi Germany, I would probably say that Germany itself should have been turned into a wasteland in 1945.
Another Hooah-like individual. Very understandable. Hindsight 20/20. When Hitler entered the elections, he was the only person who was capable of lifting the Germany from two successive, immense depressions. Germany was the most humiliated and beaten-down nation in Europe. It was in ruins. Hitler was charismatic. His speeches gripped people and his arguments were tenfold more convincing than the sorry excuses parties give today. And unlike the politicians of today, Hitler kept most of his promises. He lifted Germany out of Depression. Out of two Depressions.

FDR could not even get America out of one. His stimulus made things slightly better for two years, and then the economy sunk again. There was almost NOTHING that he did that actually gave results. US was in the pit, and he barely succeeded in anything. He is vastly overrated in his role in the New Deal. That program had no ultimate effect on the economy. WWII was the FDR of America. It lifted this country out. Hitler Administration did it all by themselves.

Now, I too actually would not have minded to see Germany turned into a wasteland. Unlike you, I actually have a very good reason. Between twenty or twenty five million Soviets died in WWII. Only around four-five million were soldiers. Germans planned to kill 2/3 of us, and the rest turned into slaves. They massacred Soviet Jewry. They tortured children, women. They wiped out countless villages en masse. They executed our POWs. All this they did as if it was normal, as if it was the proper manner. Nothing like the Western Front. There were incidents of all this in the West, but save for the Jews, all of it was very limited and not encouraged.

Still, even with all my urges, I know those are emotions speaking in me. Not Reason. Far from all of the Germans had blood willingly on their hands. What of the children? Soviets would steamroll German refugees on the roads with tanks, a fact no Russian today regrets. Compared to Germans stringing barbed wire through the ears, passing through the brains, of Soviet children, and then hanging them in this manner, our deeds were docile. Soviet soldiers were in blind rage after seeing so many of their comrades die. But is this proper? This is madness, and you know it. I still think you were semi-trolling. How would you like to be massacred for something someone from your country did?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I agree with AP. You can't deny human nature as some of you are trying to do. Milgram etc, etc. I like to think I wouldn't have bought into it but who really knows for sure.

-edit-

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html

[HoreTore]

Me thinks this Norwegian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling)doth protest too loudly.

Hmm? Quisling was quite fond of killing and torture, so he joined the Nazi's... And he deserved to be shot. Or hanged, can't quite remember how he was done away with atm.


@AP: See, in discussions like these, I have the upper hand, as I loathe both patriotism and nationalism, and I want the armed forces disbanded... I have absolutely zero love for or pride of "my country". I'm also instinctively opposed to any kind of authority and never care about things like "orders"...

A good Nazi, I would not have been.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm? Quisling was quite fond of killing and torture, so he joined the Nazi's... And he deserved to be shot. Or hanged, can't quite remember how he was done away with atm.


@AP: See, in discussions like these, I have the upper hand, as I loathe both patriotism and nationalism, and I want the armed forces disbanded... I have absolutely zero love for or pride of "my country". I'm also instinctively opposed to any kind of authority and never care about things like "orders"...

A good Nazi, I would not have been.

Were you raised to loath patriotism and nationalism? Or is it in your genes?

[HoreTore]

Were you raised to loath patriotism and nationalism? Or is it in your genes?

It is by the divine will of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Fragony]

Still, even with all my urges, I know those are emotions speaking in me. Not Reason. Far from all of the Germans had blood willingly on their hands. What of the children? Soviets would steamroll German refugees on the roads with tanks, a fact no Russian today regrets. Compared to Germans stringing barbed wire through the ears, passing through the brains, of Soviet children, and then hanging them in this manner, our deeds were docile. Soviet soldiers were in blind rage after seeing so many of their comrades die. But is this proper? This is madness, and you know it. I still think you were semi-trolling. How would you like to be massacred for something someone from your country did?

Less details would be great.

[Hooahguy]

You are far right.
:laugh4: right.



In fact, I rate the Nazi propaganda as much more plausible than the American conservative one.
you do?


You stand by Israel no matter how dubious the IDF actions were.
false


and you seemed to indicate your yearning to join IDF, so you seem to be more receptive to military service.
i yearn? no, as a citizen i have no choice. i figure, better make the best of it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is by the divine will of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

BLASPHEMY!!! I demand a duel to the death between my god and yours.

Flying Spaghetti Monster versus Fire-Breathing Leprechaun. Hmm.... if yours were in a pot of water... hmmm.... actually, pasta sounds good right about now. I agree to a truce while the pasta boils. But after that, it's a HOLY WAR!!! I will take His Noodly Appendage as a trophy!!! With a lovely bit or marinara, I'm sure it would taste divine...

[Prussian to the Iron]

@AP:

I don't have lots of time, so I'm not gonna address every point you made. But in regards to some american politics you have the wrong idea:


I am a fiscal conservative, but I would rather support the Pimp n' Stoner party then Republicans. My two main grievances are their anti-intellectualism and religious fervour. Democrats have plenty of their own problems, but I always saw them as less radical in their persuasion. AFAIK, there was much less "Our President is a Nazi Muslim who supports Nazi policy" and "death panels" during the Bush era. Sure, certain hot-headed Dems called President Bush an A-hole and a dumb, but compared to the lunatic accusations thrust at Obama, all that is rather tame.

this is bull right there. compared to what bush went through, obama is getting nothin but fruitcakes and flowers! And have you watched the news or read a paper lately? Obama is already trying to push some horrible legislations on us (such as the longer school hours, schools open on weekends, and shortened summer vacations) and he has the full support of just about everyone, for the same reason he was elected in the first place. Everyone makes mistakes, but Bush at least got some things right in a sticky situation. Obama is just making a bad situation much worse. And what about his communist broadcast to every child in every school in America? I don't know about you, but I have a 4th grader brother, a 2nd grader sister, and a kindergardener brother who (if they hadn't been pulled out of school that day) would have had to, like everyone else in the county, watched his socialist speech and then write a paper about it! 4th graders writing papers on a presidents political speech! So not only are thye subjected to visual brainwashing, but they also have it ingrained in their minds due to the paper. Bush never did that.


But if you were to be born in Germany, and you grew up in the same manner, your unquestionable love of Israel would be transferred to unquestionable love of Germany. You would be the first one to join SS if they accepted you. Now, do not take this as an insult, please. It is not. I understand you will be rightfully indignant about me saying such thing about you, a Jew above all things. You have to open up your mind here. And so do the mods, before they consider giving me a two-day vacation.

I find this offensive. I too am a Jew, and just being Jewish does not mean that we (or I at least) have unquestionable love for Israel. If the issue of Palestinians vs Israel ever comes up, I am definitely not on the side of "OMG KILL THEM ALL LOLZ!". I think there's nothing wrong with giving the stupid gaza strip to a new nation; if their morals are as bad as Israel thinks, it will fall anyway.

And joining up with the SS? Could Hooahguy maybe not be a devoted military man? Is it not possible he would forego that occupation and live a simpler life? I know I would never join any military at least, most especially one with questionable morals that slaughters and tortures prisoners for no good reason.


I too would have joined SS if my patriotism was on par with yours. Quite likely, I would have even joined given my current level of nationalism, although I do like to think I my nationalism is rational, in the sense that it is not militaristic. I do not dream of joining the Russian Army, and you seemed to indicate your yearning to join IDF, so you seem to be more receptive to military service. Whatever the case, hindsight is not the approach here. Your mind would have been indoctrinated with propaganda, and there is no more accessible a mind than a nationalist one.

Wow. You took "Ah yes, a mindless pawn" and turned it into "I love my country id do anything for it it is so awesome yay lets go we are always right". Wanting to join the military does not make you a nationalist.



Anyway this is not a thread discussing who would have done what if they lived in Nazi Germany. It's about making fun at the fact that some people might think Hitler is still alive.

[HoreTore]

i yearn? no, as a citizen i have no choice. i figure, better make the best of it.

No choice? Oh come on.

Just fake suicidal and you're free to go.

[Prussian to the Iron]

but then theres the whole "howd he get married if hes dead" thing...:P

[HoreTore]

but then theres the whole "howd he get married if hes dead" thing...:P

Suicidal, not suicide.... A rather big difference :clown:

[Hooahguy]

but then wouldnt it go on my record? then how would i get a job. doesnt look too good if theres a big fat "HES SUICIDAL" on my resume.

[Strike For The South]

The fact that you're an American citzen who was educated in America has no bearing on your mandatory service?

[Hooahguy]

dual-citizen. im giving up american citizenship when i am drafted.

[Strike For The South]

dual-citizen. im giving up american citizenship when i am drafted.

You'd give up your American citzenship for Isreali citzenship? All so you can fight in some tribal conflict thousands of years old that has no end in sight?

You've spent your summers looking at this country through a window and you are now ready to pick up a rifle and kill someone else for this country? Why?

I don't mean to be rude but It seems to me you have bought propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

[HoreTore]

but then wouldnt it go on my record? then how would i get a job. doesnt look too good if theres a big fat "HES SUICIDAL" on my resume.

A lot of people seem to think that. Why that is I have no idea.

Such information is strictly confidential.

You'll get a card saying you're exempted from service, unfit for active duty, subject to reserve duty or something along those lines, if you get anything at all.


The fact that you're an American citzen who was educated in America has no bearing on your mandatory service?

I had a russo-norwegian in my company. He was desperate to join the norwegian army, since he would've been drafted to the russian army unless he finished the norwegian service. He had both russian and norwegian citizenship I believe. Unfortunately, he punched a 2nd luitenant when he had a month remaining.... Not sure what happened to the guy...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Giving up American citizenship?
:stare:
CR

[Hooahguy]

well lets put you in my postion. what would you do?
if i wasnt jewish id give up israeli citizenship in a heartbeat. its very hard to remain a religious jew in the US army.

remember that the country that you refer to is not just "some place" for me. it hold much more than that for me. anyhow, we are digressing from the main topic, my military service hold no bearing in the conversation.

[Strike For The South]

well lets put you in my postion. what would you do?
if i wasnt jewish id give up israeli citizenship in a heartbeat. its very hard to remain a religious jew in the US army.

remember that the country that you refer to is not just "some place" for me. it hold much more than that for me. anyhow, we are digressing from the main topic, my military service hold no bearing in the conversation.

Stay here.

The only reason you are doing this is becuase you're Jewish. Why should Isreal get you? Because you're jewish?

I don't see how you can simply turn your back on America to go and fight for someone simply becuase you have the same religon as them. Hell I recall a thread where the ultra-orthodox jews yelled at some of your classmates b/c of there clothing. And now you're going to fight for them?

uBER-lAME

[Hooahguy]

and an israeli, had i chose to retain american citizenship, would say the same thing:
"you are turning your back on Israel to stay in the US?

uBER-lAME"

also, arent there americans who hate america, ie WBC? do our souldiers fight for them? yes. same concept.

[HoreTore]

Stay here.

The only reason you are doing this is becuase you're Jewish. Why should Isreal get you? Because you're jewish?

I don't see how you can simply turn your back on America to go and fight for someone simply becuase you have the same religon as them. Hell I recall a thread where the ultra-orthodox jews yelled at some of your classmates b/c of there clothing. And now you're going to fight for them?

uBER-lAME

Not everyone wears their PATRIOT-glasses all the time, SFTS.... Some are actually able to see things in a more international light ~;)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I would like to point out that there was quite a lot of the Bush = Hitler when he was in office, just like we have the Obama = Stalin. Or whatever.

[Aemilius Paulus]

@AP:

I don't have lots of time, so I'm not gonna address every point you made. But in regards to some american politics you have the wrong idea:
In the very opening of your post you have made a mistake that made me wish I could just skip over and ignore your post. Only a naive, inexperienced, and immature individual truly believes there is such thing as "right or wrong" in this world. Now, I know you are much better than that, but that was a semi-accidental, careless "FAIL" on your part there... Whatever, we all make mistakes.

In any case, everything I say is my opinion and unless it is a scientific debate, I never claim to be right or that someone is wrong. I am simply presenting my point of view, my take on the matter. Given that, I do not feel good about further rebutting your post, as I see there is nothing I can change. You already have your point of view crystallised in your mind. What sort of politics do you associate yourself with, Prussian Iron? Just interested.




this is bull right there. compared to what bush went through, obama is getting nothin but fruitcakes and flowers! And have you watched the news or read a paper lately? Obama is already trying to push some horrible legislations on us (such as the longer school hours, schools open on weekends, and shortened summer vacations) and he has the full support of just about everyone, for the same reason he was elected in the first place. Everyone makes mistakes, but Bush at least got some things right in a sticky situation. Obama is just making a bad situation much worse. And what about his communist broadcast to every child in every school in America? I don't know about you, but I have a 4th grader brother, a 2nd grader sister, and a kindergardener brother who (if they hadn't been pulled out of school that day) would have had to, like everyone else in the county, watched his socialist speech and then write a paper about it! 4th graders writing papers on a presidents political speech! So not only are thye subjected to visual brainwashing, but they also have it ingrained in their minds due to the paper. Bush never did that.
Your opinion. Neither your nor my opinion matters here, as we both know nothing about such a compelx and wide-encopassing matter as perception of Presidents or the relative amounts of criticism they face. not to mention, much of this depends on how much news you listen/read and what sources you listen/read.

I will however add that I do not recollect President Bush facing as much bile and slander in the beginning of his terms. Obama faced the often racism-motivated, preposterously absurd ranting of the majority of Republicans, even officially. Congressmen speaking about "death panels", calling him a "Muslim", calling him "uppity", calling him "a liar" - I am sorry, but it is my opinion Bush had it easier.

Main issue here is that I believe you accidentally overlooked the beginning of Bush's first term, and compared his late years with Obama's beginning. Two different things. Obama should not have been criticised as much in the beginning.


"(such as the longer school hours, schools open on weekends, and shortened summer vacations)"
On the contrary, that are very wise, if unpopular legislation. I do not cannot revive any memory of Obama holding school on weekends, but yes, he does wish longer hours and short summer school. If you may have perhaps taken note, the US is slipping in education. And by slipping, I mean US is falling behind many Third World nations in factors such as test scores and literacy. Hell, more than half of the doctorates in US are held by foreigners. Bleak times. US has rather brief school-times in comparison.

But the longer school hours is debatable... There are many factors here. What is not, however, debatable, is that summer break must be diminished in length. I forget practically all my maths during the summer. That is merely the main factor. Summers are detrimental to learning, and much time is squandered on simply the re-assertion of data students lost. Summers are indeed a relic of older, agricultural times and they are anachronistic in today's urbanised America. I hate to say this, but you are merely conveying an impression to me of a student who dislikes those policies simply because they will require you to work and study more... Please show me how I am incorrect to deduce thusly.


"communist broadcast"
Given the mind-boggling inanity and ludicrousness of this allegation, which paints a picture of a far-right worried soccer-mom/Rush Limbaugh hybrid in my mind, I am stunned no-one has erupted on you for your assertion. All I can say is, do you know what communism is like? Can you grasp the searing intensity and intransigence of communism? ...



I find this offensive. I too am a Jew, and just being Jewish does not mean that we (or I at least) have unquestionable love for Israel. If the issue of Palestinians vs Israel ever comes up, I am definitely not on the side of "OMG KILL THEM ALL LOLZ!". I think there's nothing wrong with giving the stupid gaza strip to a new nation; if their morals are as bad as Israel thinks, it will fall anyway.
If I had a nickel for every time you said "I find this offensive. I am a Jew"...

You know what, I find your talk offensive? Whoopte-doo! :laugh4: Well, sorry, I know you have the right to be "offended", but I find most of the the current hype about the expression "offensive" to be pure ballyhoo. Offensive is when I insult you or your ethnicity directly. I was not talking to you, but to Hooah. You have no right to be offended here, but I understand why you are. I know Hooah well, we are good friends, and what I said about him, save for "far right" is basically accurate. Now, if you take what I said to Hooah and apply it to yourself or Jews in general, then you get problemos...

Just as note, no one knew SS was going to kill Jews and POWs when they joined it. Well, not in the beginning. No one really knew, out of the common people, that the Nazis were planning mass-murder. You are ignoring awfully many factors here, Prussian Iron. Patriotic people eager to join the military often went to SS if they were found "pure" (ideologically & racially) and physically fit enough. If Hooah would be all three, then given his strong patriotism he would join SS, if he was born and raised in Germany in that era.

Finally, your last two sentences make no sense... I would like for you to elaborate, if you wish.



and just being Jewish does not mean that we (or I at least) have unquestionable love for Israel. If the issue of Palestinians vs Israel ever comes up, I am definitely not on the side of "OMG KILL THEM ALL LOLZ!". I think there's nothing wrong with giving the stupid gaza strip to a new nation; if their morals are as bad as Israel thinks, it will fall anyway.
I was not speaking of Jews in general or you when I posted a response to Hooah. There. Stop taking my post out of context. Of course not all Jews are like that. But notice I specifically posted in response to Hooahguy, only taking him into consideration, and no one else.


And joining up with the SS? Could Hooahguy maybe not be a devoted military man? Is it not possible he would forego that occupation and live a simpler life? I know I would never join any military at least, most especially one with questionable morals that slaughters and tortures prisoners for no good reason.
Well, it is well-known to me that Hooah aspires to join IDF. He is interested in the military. Nowhere in my previous post did I simply assume. I took all the info I knew about Hooah, and applied it. He is interested in joining the military. But this is OK, since you did not know that about Hooah. I know I am prone to generalisations, so your skepticism was rightfully founded.




Wow. You took "Ah yes, a mindless pawn" and turned it into "I love my country id do anything for it it is so awesome yay lets go we are always right". Wanting to join the military does not make you a nationalist.
Once again, you do not know Hooah as well. He is both a strong patriot and he has stated many times he was going to or wanted to join IDF. I did not "turn" anything into anything. And Hooah could have admittedly done better than so swiftly throwing an unsupported, one-sentence insult. Although I do not mind it at all, because I like it when people can do that, not constricted by overtly strict moderating. Just as long as it does not get out of hand.


:laugh4: right.
Why not? Your political (not social) stances are far right. You are not a moderate conservative. Bibi is not, and I know you support him greatly, even though there are more moderate conservatives in Israel. Not that there is anything wrong with being far-right.



you do?
I do :beam:. Republicans tend to circumvent science and moderation quite often. Especially science.



false
Look, I cannot list off every time you supported or went against Jewish-related policies. I generalised of course. In general, you support Israel and IDF more than anyone in this whole establishment. That is enough for me. Shoot, just take a look at this thread and tell me with a straight face you are nevertheless a moderate - Dealing with anti-Semitism on the internet (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116553)



i yearn? no, as a citizen i have no choice. i figure, better make the best of it.
I recollect you mentioning your wish to be a "sniper in IDF or something like it". Nothing to be ashamed of here, you simply wish to join your nation's military. Note I used "nation" which denotes ethnic and political definitions, as opposed to a "country" which is purely political. US can never be a "nation" under the common politological definition.


You'd give up your American citzenship for Isreali citzenship? All so you can fight in some tribal conflict thousands of years old that has no end in sight?

You've spent your summers looking at this country through a window and you are now ready to pick up a rifle and kill someone else for this country? Why?

I don't mean to be rude but It seems to me you have bought propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
Hmm, SFTS has some points. My opinion is that you have to choose. Either Israel or America. Not both. It is thankless to be raised in America, enjoying the countless benefits, and then quit and fight for another country. Like SFTS I am not altogether approving of individuals who wish to live in one country, but have allegiance to another. If US was to grant me citizenship, I would immideately forget about Russia and ditch my Russian nationalism in favour of full allegiance to America.

That said, the "tribal conflict" and "bought propaganda" remarks were taken slightly too far for my tastes. All Jews have very strong sense of belonging to Israel, and a sense of unity. That is very good. With all the enemies, they need to band together. That is the usual course for historically severely oppressed minorities.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I will however add that I do not recollect President Bush facing as much bile and slander in the beginning of his terms. Obama faced the often racism-motivated, preposterously absurd ranting of the majority of Republicans, even officially. Congressmen speaking about "death panels", calling him a "Muslim", calling him "uppity", calling him "a liar" - I am sorry, but it is my opinion Bush had it easier.

No, people just depicted him as a monkey, which I am sure is much better than as a Muslim according to your logic. You are also mistaken to say that the majority of Republicans are motivated by racism. Is he uppity? Of course he his. Is he a liar? He's a politician.

Bush was accused of much, much worse things than being a Muslim or a liar.

[Strike For The South]

and an israeli, had i chose to retain american citizenship, would say the same thing:
"you are turning your back on Israel to stay in the US?

uBER-lAME"

also, arent there americans who hate america, ie WBC? do our souldiers fight for them? yes. same concept.

But you were born and raised here. Your family lives and works here. Now you're going to take up arms with people simply becuase you have the same ascentry as them?

I understand the power of religon. At the same time you have to look and realize any land you gain or lose will not be becuase one side had God but becuase the gov't on one side decided it was prudent to do so.

Your fate is going to be decided by a man. One whom I'm sure is very excited at the prospect that his manpower now includes Americans.

I also like to think what would happen if a bunch of arabs whom where educated in a mosuqe went to Palestine and fought for them. Something tells me my awesome gov't would be all over that.

WBC makes up .00000000000000001% of the American pop. Those same jewish men who got angry at your friend make up a MUCH larger portion of the Isreali pop and you know that.

I realize I'm coming off as a grade-A arse but dang.



Not everyone wears their PATRIOT-glasses all the time, SFTS.... Some are actually able to see things in a more international light ~;)

? I'm fully aware we support Isreal for reasons of oil and as a chip against the Irianians or if the Suad decideds to get uppity. When you boil it all down it just so happens there retarded ethnic conflict is different than the 100,000 others becuase they're killing eachother on top of errlll.

Make no mistake I know nationalism is an outdated philosphy used by the bourgeoisie to send the Proletariat to there deaths for a few more coins. But this is just like getting spit on.

[Strike For The South]

That said, the "tribal conflict" and "bought propaganda" remarks were taken slightly too far for my tastes. All Jews have very strong sense of belonging to Israel, and a sense of unity. That is very good. With all the enemies, they need to band together. That is the usual course for historically severely oppressed minorities.

I'm sure Hooah's heart is in the right place but I tend to veiw the Jewish lobby and the guys in South Boston who were busy sending money to the IRA in the same light.

These are men who are sucking off Americas teet in order to settle old scores in there "home" countries. It's disgusting.

I don't send money to any Sicilian independence movement nor to any English one. My family came over for a reason. Home countries be damned.

[Prussian to the Iron]

On the contrary, that are very wise, if unpopular legislation. I do not cannot revive any memory of Obama holding school on weekends, but yes, he does wish longer hours and short summer school. If you may have perhaps taken note, the US is slipping in education. And by slipping, I mean US is falling behind many Third World nations in factors such as test scores and literacy. Hell, more than half of the doctorates in US are held by foreigners. Bleak times. US has rather brief school-times in comparison.

But the longer school hours is debatable... There are many factors here. What is not, however, debatable, is that summer break must be diminished in length. I forget practically all my maths during the summer. That is merely the main factor. Summers are detrimental to learning, and much time is squandered on simply the re-assertion of data students lost. Summers are indeed a relic of older, agricultural times and they are anachronistic in today's urbanised America. I hate to say this, but you are merely conveying an impression to me of a student who dislikes those policies simply because they will require you to work and study more... Please show me how I am incorrect to deduce thusly.


do you know why grades are slipping? gangs, drugs, alcohol, no punishments for not handing in work. i have met dozens of people just in my classes in the last 2 years that will never get anywhere because they dont give a damn. people like them bring grades down alot.

summer vacation does not bring grades down.

if he wants to shorten summer vacation, why not add the same amount of time to the winter vacation? 2 2-month long breaks during the year. then right as you start to get bored.....school!



If I had a nickel for every time you said "I find this offensive. I am a Jew"...



name 2 times.

and you seem to be making "Jew" into a group of like political, not religious, beliefs.

[Aemilius Paulus]

You are also mistaken to say that the majority of Republicans are motivated by racism.
Actually, I loathe that argument, but I am using it for my ends now. Countless people are still uncomfortable with a black President. They do not have to be racist. It is but normal to not like people different from you. Their actions are influenced by their subtle racism. It is the same as being nervous when you see a couple of black men with hands in their jacket pockets, dressed like gangsters, walk into a store. You may not be racist, but the subtle racism and prejudice is leading you to expect things of black people that you would not assume about white people.


Is he uppity? Of course he his.
Sorry, EMFM, but you need to be an American or live here to know the significance. "Uppity" is an old, rather Southern term normally applied to "Negroes in positions to high up for my liking". Often people would yell "upppity nig:daisy:r". This is very serious. There is a reason why that Congressman used that specific term. And it is no coincidence he was old.


Is he a liar? He's a politician.
Hehe, I know, I am no Obama fan myself, but you have to understand that on the Senate floor individuals are expected to act civil and not to insult other persons directly. Calling the United States President a "liar" literally in his face, during a Senate session is unprecedented in US. There is a good reason Senate made use of the relatively rare censure action. That said, Obama is a big, fat liar, but that is no justification for the inability to restrain one's-self in the Senate.


Bush was accused of much, much worse things than being a Muslim or a liar.
Not on the Senate floor. Bush was slighted, people called him all sorts of things. That always happens. "Monkey" is an empty insult, just like calling someone an A-hole or a jerk or such. "Muslim" is deliberate disinformation, and I the reason I mention it is because Congressmen are saying Obama is Muslim. Many of them. THAT is bad. It is to the same as a couch potato calling bush an idiot or a single politician casually depicting Bush as a monkey.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Actually, I loathe that argument, but I am using it for my ends now. Countless people are still uncomfortable with a black President. They do not have to be racist. It is but normal to not like people different from you. Their actions are influenced by their subtle racism. It is the same as being nervous when you see a couple of black men with hands in their jacket pockets, dressed like gangsters, walk into a store. You may not be racist, but the subtle racism and prejudice is leading you to expect things of black people that you would not assume about white people.


really? i have nothing wrong with black people, and i hate obama. racism has nothing to do with it; both parties are multi-racial.




Sorry, EMFM, but you need to be an American or live here to know the significance. "Uppity" is an old, rather Southern term normally applied to "Negroes in positions to high up for my liking". Often people would yell "upppity nig:daisy:r". This is very serious. There is a reason why that Congressman used that specific term. And it is no coincidence he was old.


yet another example of you using racism/prejudice in your argument. you know nobody will contest racial slurs.



Not on the Senate floor. Bush was slighted, people called him all sorts of things. That always happens. "Monkey" is an empty insult, just like calling someone an A-hole or a jerk or such. "Muslim" is deliberate disinformation, and I the reason I mention it is because Congressmen are saying Obama is Muslim. Many of them. THAT is bad. It is to the same as a couch potato calling bush an idiot or a single politician casually depicting Bush as a monkey.

why do you keep thinking that "Muslim" is an insult? if people think hes a muslim who gives a damn. its not an insult, stop thinking it is. we all know the only true religious insult is calling someone a "Jew" :D

this isnt the thread to be discussing this anyway. im requesting a lock.

[Aemilius Paulus]

do you know why grades are slipping? gangs, drugs, alcohol, no punishments for not handing in work. i have met dozens of people just in my classes in the last 2 years that will never get anywhere because they dont give a damn. people like them bring grades down alot.
Of course, every factor counts. For instance, it is my opinion that the rampant anti-intelectualism as well as the harmful American popular culture discourages learning, as it is "for wimpy nerds". There is no longer that respect for science in this nation. No too long ago, the front page of NY Times featured "Intelligent Design- a politically savvy challenge to evolution". No serious scientist supports the ID, a new name for more radical creationism. Popular pundits argue for it. And "politically savvy challenge to evolution" makes as much sense as "sociologically astute inquiry upon Big Bang Theory". Yet the close to 60% of Americans in recent polls seem to have abandoned evolution because their preacher commands more respect than a "snobby, elitist" scientist. But that is an another topic - start a new thread if you wish.

Whatever it may be, drugs, gangs, alcohol are problems that plague every other state in the world, in no lesser but usually larger degree than US. C'mon - it is simple, elementary logic working here: "Our school-marks are below other nations - let us examine how we are different from those other nations then". Studies have shown that increases in school time and decreases in summer vacations raised grades. Why are we even debating this?? Studying more helps you learn more and become more proficient in the certain topic. How can summer school possibly be detrimental? All the American kids need to do is lift their lazy rumps off their X-boxes, plasma TVs, and computer chairs and study more. I went to summer school this year and I am still alive. There is nothing horrific about it.

Now, this increasing school time will not work miracles - you are absolutely correct that "some people do not give a damn", but it will raise grades nevertheless to a certain degree.

I am certain the Obama Administration is more informed on the causes of such problems than the two of us... This is by no means a simple issue. Statistics and longitudinal studies are one of the keys. We do not operate such data. Neither is Obama an evil monster attempting to destroy America - he is doing his best on the contrary.


summer vacation does not bring grades down.
I am certain you would know that. And convince me with just a one sentence, without providing any evidence...


if he wants to shorten summer vacation, why not add the same amount of time to the winter vacation? 2 2-month long breaks during the year. then right as you start to get bored.....school!
I am sorry, are you actually serious? Do you believe in the usefulness of this suggestion?






name 2 times.
What about that thread in the EB forum when you said you were offended by the statement by a mere mention of SS as an "elite force"? Words leave me when I consider how that can possibly be interpreted as offensive. Does the mere mention of "charismatic Hitler" offend you as well? You bet your rear-end SS was elite, ask the Ruskies, Limeys, Canucks, Amis, and Frogs who fought them - or see the graves that the SS was responsibly for. Or their often revolutionary equipment, such as mottled uniforms - first mass use of realistic camouflage in history of modern warfare; or the Tiger and Panther tanks they had; or the StG 44, the world's first mass-produced assault rifle. They were an elite, and no one cares what your or my opinion on them is. You cannot simply revise and silence history. Especially not on these forums.

Similarly Hitler was charismatic, otherwise how did he get the Germans to like him so much, and not some other politician from a major, established, and well-funded party??


and you seem to be making "Jew" into a group of like political, not religious, beliefs.
But it is. It is a political and an ethnic group. There is Judaism the religion, and then the Jews the ethnicity. You do not think Hitler hated a religion, do you? No, he hated the Jewish folk, the ethnic Jewish folk, and then their religion, due to the association factor.

Jews are very much a political group. Did you not read Strike's post? The Jewish Lobby is one of the most powerful lobbying organisations in US. American, and all Jewry in general is a very talented and prominent minority which has produced innumerable scientists, artists, writers, politicians, businessmen - the list goes on and on. Those people are prominent individuals, with wealth aplenty, and they would be fools not to take advantage of their status to advance their interests. Especially when everyone else is doing so...

[Aemilius Paulus]

really? i have nothing wrong with black people, and i hate obama. racism has nothing to do with it; both parties are multi-racial.
I did not say everyone is racist. I said many are. And there is a world of difference between subtle, unintentional racism and outright hate. Whatever it may be, Republicans are not multi-racial. Michael Steele is joke, every black professor in my Uni fumes over his role in Republican party. They are using him, and he is not even a conservative in many issues.


why do you keep thinking that "Muslim" is an insult?
I do not. I think that it is an insult to ignore Obama's assurances and a load of facts to deliberately spread misinformation, using the Obama's purported Moslem faith as if it was an bad thing - which it is for many of the Republicans in US, who are intolerant of Muslims. Especially when it is done by supposedly respectable politicians.


you know nobody will contest racial slurs.
Sorry, I do not understand. Can you please elaborate?



this isnt the thread to be discussing this anyway. im requesting a lock.
...and I am requesting you to be reminded of the fact other people exist besides you and that some of them may rather continue the thread and do, in fact have their own opinions. The mods will lock it when they believe it is right do so. You came here, misinterpreted my post aimed at Hooah, and now you, and now you want to lock this thread just because you do not like its direction or because for some reason you feel you are losing?

Just stop posting and go to some other thread - no need to spoil the whole thing. I do not know if it is just the mean, pessimistic me, but the quote screamed of self-centredness. There is plenty of threads for everyone here, believe me :grin:

Not to mention, Backroom threads are meant to go off-topic,as long as the debate is reasonable and civil.

[Azathoth]

do you know why grades are slipping? gangs, drugs, alcohol, no punishments for not handing in work. i have met dozens of people just in my classes in the last 2 years that will never get anywhere because they dont give a damn. people like them bring grades down alot.

summer vacation does not bring grades down.

if he wants to shorten summer vacation, why not add the same amount of time to the winter vacation? 2 2-month long breaks during the year. then right as you start to get bored.....school!

Long summer vacations are indeed bad in terms of education; that's basically two-plus months for your brain to atrophy. Your brain does not like useless BS and is constantly deleting "junk" to make room for important memories and information. Knowing how to divide polynomials is, to your brain, worthless. Since this information is not being reinforced throughout the summer, students often have to "relearn" the same things over and over. For example, for PreCalculus this year, so far we've been going over functions-related material that I first learned 3-4 years ago.

You have a massive personal bias regarding this issue, anyone can see that. That said, so do I.

No shortened vacations! Down with Obumma!


US has rather brief school-times in comparison.

I read in an article about this very topic that US students have more instructional hours per year than most students in other countries (like, a hundred more than Japan, 200 more than Taiwan or something like that). Maybe a factor is that we're just inefficient?


Hehe, I know, I am no Obama fan myself, but you have to understand that on the Senate floor individuals are expected to act civil and not to insult other persons directly. Calling the United States President a "liar" literally in his face, during a Senate session is unprecedented in US.

Remember the early 19th century, when politicians used to have duels and beat the **** out of each other? Imagine Joe Wilson performing a somersault jump-kick right into Obama's face instead of accusing Obama of lying. :beam:

[Aemilius Paulus]

I read in an article about this very topic that US students have more instructional hours per year than most students in other countries (like, a hundred more than Japan, 200 more than Taiwan or something like that). Maybe a factor is that we're just inefficient?
Hmm, I remember reading the same, but I did not trust it. It seems impossible. They have school on Saturdays in Japan. Long hours, little holidays, and AFAIK, small summer vacation (not sure about the last one though). Therefore, I did not pay attention to the source. I wonder what they mean by "instructional hours"? In general, US children have much less time, and it is different for every state.




Remember the early 19th century, when politicians used to have duels and beat the **** out of each other? Imagine Joe Wilson performing a somersault jump-kick right into Obama's face instead of accusing Obama of lying. :beam:
Yeah, but that was then, of course. Still, Preston Brooks was classic :yes::2thumbsup:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Their actions are influenced by their subtle racism.

I don't believe that. Saying that people who dislike Obama are influenced by subtle racism is far too easy of an explanation. I dislike him because I dislike his policies. His skin colour has nothing to do with it. Actually, all of the politicians I really hate are white.


It is the same as being nervous when you see a couple of black men with hands in their jacket pockets, dressed like gangsters, walk into a store. You may not be racist, but the subtle racism and prejudice is leading you to expect things of black people that you would not assume about white people.

I'm more concerned that they're dressed like gangsters than them being black actually. I'd have the same reaction to white people dressed as gangsters.


Sorry, EMFM, but you need to be an American or live here to know the significance. "Uppity" is an old, rather Southern term normally applied to "Negroes in positions to high up for my liking". Often people would yell "upppity nig:daisy:r".

It seems like it's a word that somebody "made" to be racist rather than one that actually is. In every other English-speaking country that I've been to it means more or less a snob.


Calling the United States President a "liar" literally in his face, during a Senate session is unprecedented in US.

I know, which is why it seems you need to adopt the Westminster system.


Not on the Senate floor. Bush was slighted, people called him all sorts of things. That always happens. "Monkey" is an empty insult, just like calling someone an A-hole or a jerk or such. "Muslim" is deliberate disinformation, and I the reason I mention it is because Congressmen are saying Obama is Muslim. Many of them. THAT is bad. It is to the same as a couch potato calling bush an idiot or a single politician casually depicting Bush as a monkey.

I'm not talking about politicians, I'm talking about exactly the same group of people which is most viciously reacting to the ludicrous accusations that Obama is a Muslim. Congressmen and Senators are among them. Just because they choose not to voice that opinion on the Senate floor...well, how many Senators have called Obama a Muslim on the Senate floor? And how many representatives have made wild accusations directed at Bush on the Senate floor?

No, the attacks on Obama aren't more vicious, they're just from a different source.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

"Subtle Racism" seems like an oxymoron to me...

[A Very Super Market]

Would "unconscious racism" be preferred?

[Hooahguy]

this is getting ugly :hide:

[Aemilius Paulus]

I don't believe that. Saying that people who dislike Obama are influenced by subtle racism is far too easy of an explanation. I dislike him because I dislike his policies. His skin colour has nothing to do with it. Actually, all of the politicians I really hate are white.
Well, frankly speaking I do not believe it either - like I said, I was just using it. In fact, yours and my debate is an example of me arguing for the other side - being either the devil's advocate or simply a person who likes to debate for its own sake. So in truth, I agree with you on almost all points you have made in your posts. But still, I am continuing the argument :beam:...


It seems like it's a word that somebody "made" to be racist rather than one that actually is. In every other English-speaking country that I've been to it means more or less a snob.
Well, yeah, it is. Same words have different connotations in different places. I found that out when I posted "boll***s" or "w*nk off" (are we allowed to use swear words for illustrative purposes Banquo? - if not I will edit my post). In US calling a black person "uppity" is the same as calling a black, grown male "boy" or calling a black elderly man "Uncle". All three are common methods of racially-targeted disrespect during the more racist times.


I know, which is why it seems you need to adopt the Westminster system.
I do believe there was always some sort of outline of the rules on the US Senate/House floor, it is just that it was not enforced.


I'm not talking about politicians, I'm talking about exactly the same group of people which is most viciously reacting to the ludicrous accusations that Obama is a Muslim. Congressmen and Senators are among them. Just because they choose not to voice that opinion on the Senate floor...well, how many Senators have called Obama a Muslim on the Senate floor? And how many representatives have made wild accusations directed at Bush on the Senate floor?

No, the attacks on Obama aren't more vicious, they're just from a different source.
You may be correct, but I have no idea. As I said in the very beginning to Prussian Iron, I am no expert in this subject. I read news and books on politics, but that is all. Thus, I have no authority to further comment here, as you are delving into rather broad topic here. So I will simply agree with you on this one.

[Aemilius Paulus]

this is getting ugly :hide:
No, not at all, IMHO. Well, not after Prussian Iron left...

[Azathoth]

In US calling a black person "uppity" is the same as calling a black, grown male "boy" or calling a black elderly man "Uncle". All three are common methods of racially-targeted disrespect during the more racist times.

I'm almost certain this doesn't apply today. Is a black man really going to be insulted if I call him uppity? Even if African Americans still interpreted that as a racial insult, most white racists wouldn't be inclined to use it, on account of a lot of black males being good at punches.

[Aemilius Paulus]

I'm almost certain this doesn't apply today. Is a black man really going to be insulted if I call him uppity? Even if African Americans still interpreted that as a racial insult, most white racists wouldn't be inclined to use it, on account of a lot of black males being good at punches.Not to you, but every older person knows what it means. It is also no coincidence the Senator making that comment was elderly himself. Blacks are uneducated and ignorant if they do not know what the word means. Sadly, that is how most blacks are - uneducated and ignorant.

[CountArach]

So how about that Hitler skull, hey? Crazy stuff...

[Hooahguy]

So how about that Hitler skull, hey? Crazy stuff...
truly. i mean, who would save a piece of skull in the first place?

[Gregoshi]

Yeah, all this over a skull fragment that ISN'T Hitler's. This discussion is (or was) going to "Heil in a handbasket".

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yeah, all this over a skull fragment that ISN'T Hitler's. This discussion is (or was) going to "Heil in a handbasket".Still as skulled as ever with punnery. :beam:

[Gregoshi]

Still as skulled as ever with punnery. :beam:
Numskulled, maybe. :skull:

:idea2:

Hey, maybe that skull fragment was Goe(l)bbels'. :inquisitive:

[Husar]

ah yes... to be another mindless pawn. :yes:


dual-citizen. im giving up american citizenship when i am drafted.

:rolleyes:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

:rolleyes:

I think Hooah is intelligent enough to make his own choice. He could just as easily stay in America.

[Husar]

I think Hooah is intelligent enough to make his own choice. He could just as easily stay in America.

But he chose to become another mindless pawn. ~;)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

But he chose to become another mindless pawn. ~;)

Only if you define a soldier as a mindless pawn, which I personally consider both incorrect and a dangerous attitude to have.

[Husar]

Only if you define a soldier as a mindless pawn, which I personally consider both incorrect and a dangerous attitude to have.

Well, he defined all of Hitler's supporters as mindless pawns which is an even more wrong and dangerous attitude to have.
It's pretty much a fact that you have to learn to obey orders and work with your comrades in the military and I heard of a lot more cases where people did just that, even if wrong, than cases where people refused wrongful orders, in fact, the only case I know where a soldier refused an order was a german wehrmacht soldier who refused to kill babies and women and was rewarded for his mindfulness with mine-searching duty. I also vaguely remember a case/thread of/about an american soldier who refused to deploy to Afghanistan or Iraq on the grounds that he "minded" doing so but a court ruled he had to do so anyway since he signed a contract that said he can't just "mind" something and has to follow orders. Though maybe I remember that last case a bit wrong.

It's a bit of a dileamma IMO, an army that consists of individuals cannot function and will lose wars, an army with a "team spirit" is prone to consist of mindless pawns.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, if you ever watched most of those US Armed Forces commercial, you know most of them appeal to the lowest forms of human intelligence. Sure, there are plenty of intelligent individuals in the Armed Forces, but the vast majority, who are the dogfaces, the infantrymen who spend their life in the US Army not rising higher than a corpora - they are quite dull I daresay.

I remember reading in a sociology or a psychology textbook that the IQ was on average 6 points lower - a canyon worthy of Valles Marineris in the world of statistics and intelligence quotient distribution. I have seen so many people who flunked school go to the Armed Forces... All the males dropouts from my school I knew seemed to be heading there. Many of the shoddy male students indicated the same...

Of course, an officer or anyone in a technical position (tanker, artilleryman, intelligence, many of the logistics positions, paperwork bureaucrat) are certainly quite bright or at least average, but the infantryman... God, I read an entire book on how the US Army tries to recruit volunteers - it is absolutely ugly what tactics they resort to.

Most of the telly ads I have seen are exactly the same - "cool, radical, sweet" picture of "cool, hi-tech" equipment with physically imposing, jowly, hyper-masculine men doing more "cool, awesome" stuff with weapons or vehicles of war, with the ad providing little or no explanation and with "cool, trendy" techno music pumping in the background. Occasionally cliche phrases are inserted. Perhaps an occasional hot chick. And then the same end - a group of more Shwarznegger-esque GIs, predominantly black, uttering a group, uber-manly grunt/low-pitched yell/scream in perfect unison. Finally, a deep-set voice of a black male, a voice clearly indicating the presence of anabolic steroid in his blood, announces the branch of the Armed Forces, perhaps with an additional, but ever brief phrase. As some blogger commented, it is a mindf:daisy:k

The reason they have African-Americans so much is because the blacks tend to make up a disproportionally large percentage of their recruits.
[/rant]

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

It's a bit of a dileamma IMO, an army that consists of individuals cannot function and will lose wars, an army with a "team spirit" is prone to consist of mindless pawns.

That's quite obvious, eh :D? "If any of my soldiers were to think, none of them would remain in the Army".

[Banquo's Ghost]

I think we have had quite enough of this thread.

May I suggest that all contributors (especially those newly on vacation) take some time to read the Backroom rules (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109341).

:closed: