Forgotten Kulikov battle

[BatkoMahno]

There was a battle in 1380 8-th september which start an end to Golden Hordes claim on Russia.
The greate Kniaz(Duke of moscow family) Dmitrii Donskoi beat the Mamai Khan Mongol horde at Kulikovo. One of the greatest battles of middle ages everywhere I see it says.
But I can't get the real numbers anywhere.
The only thing I know for almost sure that 40 000 russians were alive at the end and it took them to separate and burry all the russian budies from 7 to 8 days
One thins is for sure too. Never in Russia was an army that big gathered under one Kniaz.(doesn't says much of a numbers)
In one article it says that there was 200 000 russians and same number of mongols, only 40000 russians survive the battle(hm hm ). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Another says that the total death number was 200 000 from both sides.(hm hm)
Waiting replys..
I have little more details if someone is interested. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

[BlackWatch McKenna]

jag mor bra~

Yah- lay it on us man - don't leave us in suspense: describe that battle and its aftermath

[Zauba'a]

I can't find my damn osprey book about medieval russian armies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I do remember that battle though, and i think you have the numbers right so far. Man that was a heavy battle. I don't know if it was at Kulikov, but there is a story of the first Russian use of a cannon in battle. Instead of loading it with a ball, they loaded it with a giant crossbow bolt and fired it at a Mongol prince who was out infront of the Russian castle (probably trying to act like some badass). They say the bolt speared right in the chest and killed him instantly. I chuckle every time I think of that story. Would make a good movie scene.

[Zauba'a]

Ok, found my Osprey book. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Apparently, there were exaggerations of the size of the armies -- naming them to be somewhere in the 100,000's. However, that's pretty much logistically impossible for just one battle. So, it seems bouth armies were somewhere between 30,000 and 60,000.

Interesting factoids about Kulikovo:

The first Russian battle in which members from all social levels participated in the fighting -- peasants and craftsmen formed the bulk of the army as infantrymen.

12 princes and 438 boyar noble commanders were killed in this battle -- that's 60% of the Russian commanders

One tenth of the approx. 40,000 Russian soldiers returned home.

Prince Dmitrii, the commander of the Russian forces, chose not to wear his gilded armor that day and told his boyar servant to wear it and stand under the royal banner during the battle. Dmitrii would instead wear the armor of a regular cavalryman and fight in the front lines where he reportedly recieved many blows to the head and body, got sliced a couple times, and got knocked down from his horse twice -- but he still survived thanks to his armor. The boyar who wore Dmitrii's gilded armor was killed in the first few minutes of the battle.

[BatkoMahno]

Thats greate info Zauba A kingdom for your book. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Its supposed to be a plain field Kulikovo and no castle there and didn't read anything about a cannon or something. But there is a serius doubts about the place. Some say it was actually in Moscow. Do you have more detailes?

That battle came after the fact that russian Great Duke of Moskov Dmitri Donskoi refused to pay tribute to Mongols. After prepairs which were started by his grandfather. To train an army so that the mongols didn't noticed.
The mongols Khan Mamai(stil golden horde) didn't notice anything before kulikovo, they actually send a smaller force firstly to show Dmitri Donskoi where is his place but that *force* never came back. So Mamai gathered everything he had then to meet at kulikovo plus they hyred genoese infantry the rest was mongol horse power. I know Nothing about Mamai afterwords so I don't know if died then in battle.
That was the start of the END of mongol influense on Russia I guess they didn't pay tribut anymore. https://harkrank.oblivion.nu/members/batko/boyar2.jpg

[Zauba'a]

Sorry, the "Men-at-Arms" series from Osprey Publishing (very cool books I might add&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif are mainly books about the arms, armor, and fortifications that were used by the topic culture. Not much information about the actual battles (but Osprey also publishes books called "Campaigns" that might help with that).