so they are done with major patches. [Archive]

View Full Version : so they are done with major patches.

Callahan9119

10-09-2009, 17:19

http://zh-tw.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=157233492889&ref=mf

Mark Simpson:

"Patch 1.5 has just been released. This is the last planned major patch for Empire: Total War, and attempts to sweep up the remaining AI issues that for the hardcore gamer take the shine off of the Empire apple."

"I’ll talk about battle AI another time."

"I had 6 copies of Empire: Total War sat on my shelf intended for close gamer friends that I didn’t send out because I was too embarrassed about the flaws. Old friends are the harshest critics. Well they’ve gone out now. I think the game now meets my personal unreasonably high quality threshold - not just good but great. Hopefully my friends will agree."

But not too embarrassed to SELL it to me? I swear, everytime this guy opens his mouth he puts his foot in it.

Quickening

10-09-2009, 17:24

Well I really hope they at least release a small fix for the tech tree issue (you know where the tabs become confused and sometimes unclickable). Aside from that, yeah I'm pretty content actually.

Callahan9119

10-09-2009, 17:32

Really?

With the BAI and sieges?

A1_Unit

10-09-2009, 17:53

Fixed AI - not yet.:no: All that's happened now is that Major factions are RAGE factions and Minors won't do diplomacy with me.

nafod

10-09-2009, 18:15

Durallan

10-09-2009, 18:35

not good. they needed at least a 1.6, can i say I'm disappointed? yes I can. while 1.4 was a major improvement finally, have not played 1.5 myself to confirm, but there are still many issues needing resolvement, maybe I won't buy NTW after all. of note he did say last planned patch, so if enough people shout they might do another, maybe....

Quickening

10-09-2009, 18:37

Really?

With the BAI and sieges?

Well I'll put it like this, the game is now as good as I expect a Total War game to be. If I want brilliant AI I'll go play Europa Universalis because I know I'll never get it with Total War.

Sheogorath

10-09-2009, 20:06

1.5 seems to have broken more than it fixed. It's like another 1.2. The government/diplo screens, CAI, and game performance are all screwy now.

So no, they better not be done with patches, unless they plan to release something to roll the game back to 1.4.

Zenicetus

10-09-2009, 20:14

Mark Simpson:
"I had 6 copies of Empire: Total War sat on my shelf intended for close gamer friends that I didn’t send out because I was too embarrassed about the flaws. Old friends are the harshest critics. Well they’ve gone out now. I think the game now meets my personal unreasonably high quality threshold - not just good but great. Hopefully my friends will agree."

But not too embarrassed to SELL it to me? I swear, everytime this guy opens his mouth he puts his foot in it.

Nail on the head. That's a really insulting comment. I guess CA is too small to have a real P.R. department, and Sega corporate just doesn't care what the user base thinks about comments like this?

Slaists

10-09-2009, 20:15

Well I'll put it like this, the game is now as good as I expect a Total War game to be. If I want brilliant AI I'll go play Europa Universalis because I know I'll never get it with Total War.

Pardon me, but once the player starts to dominate the scene EU's AI becomes dead too...

Slaists

10-09-2009, 20:18

http://zh-tw.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=157233492889&ref=mf

Mark Simpson:

"I’ll talk about battle AI another time."

About that BAI that charges it's cavalry uphill through the trees into the bayonets of awaiting infantry? yeah... that BAI could use a couple dozen patches beyond 1.5...

Quickening

10-09-2009, 20:25

Pardon me, but once the player starts to dominate the scene EU's AI becomes dead too...

Any AI is screwed when the player starts to dominate. It's an old problem with strategy games in that once the player has expanded it's just a matter of time before he wins. EU AI however, is rarely if ever completely nonsensical.

Husar

10-09-2009, 22:18

:laugh4: So in another thread I said they're beginning to build up trust, and here's the thread where they want to destroy it again? :inquisitive:
I haven't tried 1.5 yet I think but even 1.4 which was pretty good, was still lacking some polish IMO.

peacemaker

10-09-2009, 23:03

It should now be well ahead of Rome/Med II’s AI, but it’s still only firing on two or three cylinders and had much untapped potential.

I wonder...if it took a "major" patch like 1.4 to bring it up to a pretty good level, and they want to make it that much better, it seems to me they would need a major patch to make a game so much better. The multiplayer campaign has yet to be released; I have a feeling at least 1 or 2 patches will have to follow that.

At least they've admitted that ETW 1.0 was awful and a partial explanation for it.

Owen Glyndwr

10-09-2009, 23:23

Crazed Rabbit

10-10-2009, 00:13

So they hyped and sold a product they were too embarrassed to give away to their friends?

I need to get back to my wacom...

CR

Claudio

10-10-2009, 02:46

I'm not happy at all that this will be the final patch. The AI still needs work in the campaign department, and especially needs work in battles. When the AI is defending is when it is most easy to defeat. It sends its cavalry, one by one, up the side of the battlefield, and behind your army. At this point you can take it out, unit by unit, by charging it with your own cavalry from the front and rear. I took out 6 Prussian regiments of horse in this manner in a single battle today, with a loss of 6 horsemen of my own.

When attacking, the AI does the exact same thing with its cavalry as when it is defending, OR sometimes it just charges head on into your line infantry, getting ripped to shreds in the process. It then throws its entire army of foot soldiers in at your center, which I guess is realistic for the age, but it makes no flanking attempts as it has already wasted all its cavalry in the opening stages of the battle.

You may remember a post I made a few days ago about how the AI seems to be fixed and acting in a reasonable and acceptible way. I must retract this. It seems the AI only behaves in a reasonable manner as certain nations.

I played that Austrian campaign up until 1705, and things were going wonderfully. Poland allied with me against Prussia, and Russia allied with me against the Ottoman empire. I wanted to try a different faction to see if all went well. What happened was as follows.

I began a campaign as Prussia on Hard/Medium, the same as my Austrian one. On the first turn, all I did was shuffle ministers, upgrade some buildings, disband useless units like militia and make trade agreements and alliances with Hannover, Great Britain, and the Ottomans (who I would share a common enemy with in Austria and Poland, or so I thought), and hit end turn. Poland declared war on me immediately. Their protectorate, Saxony, refused to join in. I continued bulking up my army and shuffling ministers, then hit end turn again. This is where the jaw dropping occured. As the AI was cycling through its turns, the following nations declared war on me. Great Britain (we were allied), Denmark, Hannover (allied and trading), Saxony, Austria, Courland, Russia, Sweden. Each one of those nations declared war on me when their turn came up.

I bundled all my armies into Brandemburg and Konigsberg and prepared to defend. My lands were full of Polish, Saxon, Courland(ish?), Austrian and Hannoverian armies, besieging my cities, raiding my towns and farms, pillaging my countryside and having my women. They even assasinated that 6-star general you start with, Ludwig Von Baden Baden.

I spent around 6 turns defending and asking for peace, offering technology and money for it, and nobody would accept. An insult, they all told me. Remember, that I had made no aggression in this campaign, I was ganged up on by all my neighbours, and even several nations that I didn't even share a border with.

So, I started a second campaign as Austria, again on Hard/Medium, and again got good results, just as I had in the first. Poland was most happy to ally with me against Prussia, and Russia was most happy to ally with me against the Ottomans. The Ottomans never made any aggression on me, even though I assassinated their two Imam's and waged a war of conversion in Greece with 3 bishops of mine. It was only in 1710 that I demanded Moldavia from them so that I would be able to trade with Russia, and then declared war on them when they refused to give it.

Prussia declared war early, 1702. For 3 years there was no action as I had my main full stack army sat on their border waiting for them to come to me. Eventually they took Silesia which was totally undefended. I moved my full stack to take it back, and the Prussians came out to meet me. A huge and bloody battle ensued which I won, but with horrendous casualties. It took me 3 turns to fully repair my army to a state of battle readiness, during which time the Prussians had taken Prague. I took it back from them in yet another huge and bloody battle, which I won, but at a huge cost. Poland took Konigsberg from them. Prussia took Gdansk from Poland, but Poland took it back. Left with only Brandemburg, Prussia made one final attempt at attacking me, and I defeated their 17-unit army in what can only be described as a victory so monumentally awesome that it can't even be described. I killed 1,400 men with a loss of only 138, thanks to a freak cannonball that killed their general at the start of the battle.

After this loss, the Prussians surrendered to myself, and 4 other factions. They are left at war with only Poland. The war had lasted 12 years and been destructive for Prussia especially, but also for me, as I had to tax the crap out of my lands to pay for it, so growth has been stifled, and there is now peace amongst us, only the Ottomans are in my firing line now.

So, the AI behaves better with some nations than others, it seems. For Prussia it was abysmal, for Austria it has been amazing, twice in a row. The battle AI is abysmal in every instance, no matter what nation you play as.

It needs more patches. And if it doesn't get more patches I want a 50% refund of what I paid for this game, because I won't deny that I enjoy the game, but I'm only willing to pay for what something is worth, and this wasn't worth the price I paid for it, and does not live up to even 1 bit of the hype that preceeded its release.

If only your programmers were as fantastic at their job as your hype co-ordinator was, whose job title ought to be changed to dishonest liar.

Veho Nex

10-10-2009, 07:03

So they hyped and sold a product they were too embarrassed to give away to their friends?

I need to get back to my wacom...

CR

You this reminds me of a quote and I'd like to direct it at Mike...

"I'm going to become rich and famous one day when I invent a machine that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet."

aimlesswanderer

10-10-2009, 07:29

Disappointing, given the noted serious AI issues still there after 5 patches. No NTW for me, and I will have to take a "wait and see" approach with forthcoming titles.

johnmcd

10-10-2009, 12:51

Disappointing, given the noted serious AI issues still there after 5 patches. No NTW for me, and I will have to take a "wait and see" approach with forthcoming titles.

This is the first Total War title I've not bought at launch. I've been waiting and seeing after feeling initially burnt on Rome and certainly on MTW2.

It looks like it will remain unbought, which makes me pretty unhappy really.

Furunculus

10-10-2009, 17:02

Does this mean they can finally release the modding tools...finally?

That was my big hope, the promise that ETW would be the most moddable TW game of all time. If they release the modding tools, I think I finally might actually buy ETW. No promises on NTW though.

crikey, so this explains why the ETW mod section is so empty and lifeless!

i had no idea they still hadn't released the modding tools.......................

Sheogorath

10-10-2009, 21:53

crikey, so this explains why the ETW mod section is so empty and lifeless!

i had no idea they still hadn't released the modding tools.......................

Actually, that's just kind of a peculiarity of the .org, TWcenter is apparently where the modding action is at.

antisocialmunky

10-10-2009, 22:05

Actually, that's just kind of a peculiarity of the .org, TWcenter is apparently where the modding action is at.

Yeah, check it out. TWCenter usually has more mods anyways.

Furunculus

10-11-2009, 10:18

cheers guys.

Fisherking

10-11-2009, 10:30

I think it needs a patch to put back in what they seem to have taken out.

Diplomacy is still not right and not working as well as it did when the game was released.

Don’t get me wrong, 1.4 & 1.5 were improvements but having to basically kill a faction to make it a protectorate is silly. Some elements of the economy are restrictive and heavy handed. There are still things that are unenjoyable.

They will never be perfect but they still need improvement.

If the AI is functioning at less than half its potential why would anyone be satisfied with it?

Dead Guy

10-11-2009, 15:52

The game is still a flip of the coin whether it will make it through the AI's turn or not after 1730 or so for me, in every campaign I've played. I don't pay to sit and try different saves to get past a AI turn CTD.

"I think the game now meets my personal unreasonably high quality threshold"

This is simply insulting for those who can't even make it to 1799, something that should probably be above anyones quality threshold you know.

risker

10-11-2009, 17:29

Even RTW MTW:2 had more/same amont of patches, and they weren't unplayable when released. :shame:

Sheogorath

10-11-2009, 18:12

cheers guys.

NP. And let me suggest, while we're at it, Imperial Splendour. It fixes a lot of the gameplay issues, mostly the 'generic unit syndrome' the game suffers from. They can't directly fix the AI, but they seem to have improved it a bit with new prices for things.

@Fisherking
I'm still not seeing 1.5 as an 'improvement'.

Fisherking

10-11-2009, 18:45

@Fisherking
I'm still not seeing 1.5 as an 'improvement'.

I am thinking that 1.4 may have been better then 1.5 excepting the chain shot. But we got too little time with it, it is hard to say.

At any rate there are bugs in 1.5 I didn’t see before.

It needs fixed and some of the items changed. It is odd that they have to change stuff that works and bust it and there is more I would say but It is still better than 1.2 & 1.3.

peacemaker

10-11-2009, 19:35

Even RTW MTW:2 had more/same amont of patches, and they weren't unplayable when released.

Patching is much easier now with Steam, so they can release patches MUCH faster and therefore there will be more patches. ETW wasn't unplayable on release; sure it wasn't too great, but it was still decent.

Beskar

10-11-2009, 19:57

If you haven't bought E:TW, the 50% discount is still got one day left, I recommend now or never or many years down the line in a bargain bin.

risker

10-11-2009, 20:54

Beskar in six months it'll be lower and fully patched up with a great mod available too.

Zenicetus

10-11-2009, 21:29

If the AI is functioning at less than half its potential why would anyone be satisfied with it?

Well, here's what the cynic in me thinks. The pattern has been for CA to get two major releases, plus expansions, from each ground-up rewrite of the game engine. ETW is the first release of this new game engine. I don't think NTW counts as the next in the cycle, since it seems more like a major ETW modding project than a full release. CA may think they have two major game release cycles to really "get it right," with the first one (ETW) only being "good enough" to make some profit. With the large gamer market they're shooting for now, just providing flashy battle graphics is enough to sell a ton of games, and they have two full game cycles to work on optimizing the AI in this current game engine.

I hope that's not the case... I hope someone over there at CA still cares about improving the current state of ETW. But game companies are driven by other concerns than just doing the best possible job on each release. At some point (if it hasn't happened already), they're going to have to pull the programmers off tweaks for ETW and put them on the next Project X after NTW.

The Fuzz

10-11-2009, 22:55

If you haven't bought E:TW, the 50% discount is still got one day left, I recommend now or never or many years down the line in a bargain bin.

yeah, that's what I did. I don't regret it