The strategic view: expansion pack

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Some of us did enjoy the strategic part of shogun Total war(strategic map -SP) and hope for improvements to increase the depth of play.

I have compiled some of the changes noted in different previews of the expansion pack. We won't know for sure the real impact of the changes until we play a couple of campaigns, but we can have a "feel" for what is to come.

If you care about that part of the game, those it seem promising to you? Are you drooling on your keyboard? Are you disappointed? C'mon splatter you're reactions here....

Here are tha changes:

-Emissaries or/and shinobies (depending of the preview source) can bribe ennemy Taisho's (not ronin?). If they succeed, the army is yours, if not they die. Note: The third preview mentions that a shinobi can be used as a diplomat.

-Ninjas can be use to infiltrate enemy castles to break the siege.

- two new structures: 1. Strategy school for taisho's (honor bonus?) 2.drill Dojos to improve units discipline (discipline is a new stat that influences the morale of your troops-morale bonus?).

-An option to destroy weak/derelict units.

-Diplomacy plays a more significant role (to explain this statement it says "greater opportunity for joint attacks and three way battles).

- Religion: 1. Priests will be able to start rebellions 2.Churches (not cathedralls) will bring in extra koku.

-The generals will now show their rank on the strategic map.

-The original SP campaign (the one we are playing now) can be started in 1530, 1550 or 1580 (the clans and provinces at your disposal will be determine by this- in 1530 most provinces will be under ronin forces).

-For all campaigns different victory conditions available: 1. Capture all provinces 2. Capture 40 of 60 provinces. 3.Eliminate rival clans. 4 Live for seventy years.

Does any of the above strike your imagination strategy wise for better or worse?


KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary of the ratta clan) www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Originally posted by KumaRatta-san:
Quote -Emissaries or/and shinobies (depending of the preview source) can bribe ennemy Taisho's (not ronin?). If they succeed, the army is yours, if not they die. Note: The third preview mentions that a shinobi can be used as a diplomat.[/QUOTE]I think this means Emissaries - the one preview was just confused as to the difference of Shinobi and Emissaries. They are still two differenent units.

Also, I can't think of a reason why Rônin armies could not be bribed.

Quote - Religion: 1. Priests will be able to start rebellions 2.Churches (not cathedralls) will bring in extra koku.[/QUOTE]Priests are already able to start rebellions. Maybe more effectively, then. I wonder what use a Catherdral will be now.

Quote -For all campaigns different victory conditions available: 1. Capture all provinces 2. Capture 40 of 60 provinces. 3.Eliminate rival clans. 4 Live for seventy years.[/QUOTE]The last sound like an option for horde games. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"6. Melyo: honor and glory."

[Gregoshi]

The "Bribe the Taisho" ploy could be real nasty in the hands of the rich eastern clans early in game. I wonder how often the AI will use this option.

How about this: invade a province and at the same time bribe the taisho in a neighboring province that would support the defense of the invaded province. Nasty.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[edRonin]

Quote Originally posted by KumaRatta Yamamoto:
-The original SP campaign (the one we are playing now) can be started in 1530, 1550 or 1580 (the clans and provinces at your disposal will be determine by this- in 1530 most provinces will be under ronin forces).

[/QUOTE]

This is a great option. Will allow for alot more depth in the strategic game. I like the idea of starting in 1530 when most of the country is Ronin :) Where did you read this KumaRatta? I read something about being able to start at different tech levels (larger starting castles), but I wasn't aware we could pick different time frames within the Sengoku Jidai period.

Considering the quality of the original game and all the great new stuff in the Xpack this game is going to be amazing. And thats without the online Campaign which will be delivered later.



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All your base are belong to us

[Vanya]

Hmmm... will the bribery option make Hojo's horde even worse? Depends on how 'easy' it is to bribe enemy taisho... if it is like killing your daimyo with a ninja, the chances are slim, but still there... Can Hojo spend bribery money he doesnt have? That is, can he deficit-fund the bribery? Or must he have the koku to spend in the coffers? I know *WE* will have to have the spare koku! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[BanzaiZAP]

Great thread! One thing you forgot:
Not only can you decomission derelect units, but I remember one place said you can upgrade them, too. Do you should be able to pass your unarmored (but rank 4) yari samurai taisho through your brand-new legendary armory and give him the defense bonus! I hope this remains in the final release, even though it could make some ugly late-game battles. But then, that's the fun part!

"Win the game by surviving for 70 years."
Also known as: "Bringing the Art of Camping into Campaign Mode..." http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

-- B)

[Hosakawa Tito]

I would be willing to bet that the ease of bribing a taisho will be related to:
1.The strategy dojo
2.The honor level of the taisho
3.How often you break alliances with other clans.A samurai's word was considered sacred,many committed seppuku when their deeds failed to live up to their words.Maybe the Daimyo that breaks alliances risks the alienation of some of his taisho's,making them more susceptable to bribery.
4.I would also have to agree with Anssi that the ronin taisho's would probably be the easiest to buy off.And I'm sure the flip side would also apply-the ronin general you just bribed would be more likely to betray you.Keep your enemies close and your "friends" even closer.
5.The honor level of the diplomat/shinobi also factors into the success of the bribe.
Oh those oily tongued high honor devils.They could sell a freezer to an Eskimo. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Quote Diplomacy plays a more significant role (to explain this statement it says "greater opportunity for joint attacks and three way battles).[/QUOTE]

In real ancient times, diplomacy was very important, much more than it is represented in the current SP game. Maybe the x-pack will give me a good experience for my egos. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif




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Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre at: http://terazawa.totalwar.org

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

EdRonin: I got it here (The most complete preview that i saw) www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/previews/may01/swe.html (http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/previews/may01/swe.html)


Anssi: Concerning the priests and Rebellion, in about 4 campaigns as a Christian i have never seen a Christian Rebellion with priests only (even when the population is 100% Christian in an AI Budhist clan with no army in this province).

I have created Christian rebellions only with a combination of priests and shinobies.

Maybe i was doing something wrong. If you ever created such a rebellion with only priests, please explain to me what steps you took (if you remember). I would like to try it.

KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary to rhe Ratta Clan) www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[Anssi Hakkinen]

You had bad luck, or the enemy clan had an exceptionally low tax %. But basically, a 100% Christian province in a Buddhist regime *should* be in a state of rebellion very quickly...

But, agreed, the priests could use a boost in efficiency. Getting an enemy province up to 100% Christian is an excruciatinlgy long process, and as you pointed out, not a sure-fire revolt - at least right away. The best way to increase priest usefulness would be to add a shinobi-like quality (of being able to drop the loyalty rating as well as up the Christian %), and I believe that's what the devs intend to do.

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"6. Melyo: honor and glory."

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Thanks for the reply