UK English Grammar vs. US English Grammar

[Shaka_Khan]

Reading various forums and TW multiplayer foyers made me realize how different UK grammar is from US grammar. The ones we are pretty much aware of is the spelling and what we call certain things. Examples would be 'honour' vs. 'honor' and 'valour' vs. 'valor', or how we call things such as 'football' vs. 'soccer' and 'lift' vs. 'elevator'.

I noticed more differences from novels. The British use single quotes (') while the Americans use double quotes (") when quoting a character. Examples:
'I went there,' she said.
"I went there," she said.
What confuses me is that old British novels used double quotes.-> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0812564839/greyghostgamesA/#reader Maybe it's because the book in that link is an American version. I'll check Tolkien's books.

I wonder. Do the British and the Americans get annoyed when they see grammar different from their's? Also, what are the other differences in English grammar? And what about Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa? I started to be aware (and worry) of how I write in English when I started to chat with the world.

[Strike For The South]

They are wrong.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Do the British and the Americans get annoyed when they see grammar different from their's?

Or, perhaps more importantly, is this apostrophe correctly placed?

[pevergreen]

Australia does the language correctly.

We speak Australian.

Its "text" a single is more a double used. Used to be the other way around, but has changed, I was informed.

Its gray. Gray is a colour.

[Papewaio]

Grammar... whatever MS Office says is correct is correct of course. So in NSW because the primary school teachers cannot figure out how to change the region to Australia, it is kept to the default of American English.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Grammar... whatever MS Office says is correct is correct of course. So in NSW because the primary school teachers cannot figure out how to change the region to Australia, it is kept to the default of American English.

That's hilarious :laugh4:


Anyone who cares about grammar and spelling to that degree needs to chill out.

And yeah, obviously American grammar is the correct version.

[Aemilius Paulus]

What confuses me is that old British novels used double quotes
Yes, and British also began using the 's' instead of 'z' (ise vs ize) which is a French influence, in the late 1900s. Oxford English still retains the original spelling. I personally prefer British English, and that is what they taught me in Russia, where I spent the majority of my life.

[Papewaio]

That's hilarious :laugh4:

Anyone who cares about grammar and spelling to that degree needs to chill out.

And yeah, obviously American grammar is the correct version.

I actually don't mind if we choose a grammar set for a reason. I do mind choosing one out of a lack of interest, stupidity or lack of motivation as displayed by said "'teachers'".

And yes primary school teachers who teach the basics should care about spelling and grammar. However most schools do not explicitly teach English grammar as it is assumed that one will absorb it in an English speaking society.

[Proletariat]

I wonder. Do the British and the Americans get annoyed when they see grammar different from their's?

I can't speak for the British but every American I know rages out when they see the difference.

[Samurai Waki]

I use American and British English interchangeably, I've never been bothered by either.

[Crazed Rabbit]

It always seems the British folks get most perturbed because we don't use superfluous 'u's and the like.

CR

[CountArach]

Australia does the language correctly.
No we don't. We spell "jail" as "gaol".

[Banquo's Ghost]

I can't speak for the British but every American I know rages out when they see the difference.

The British rage inside. The perceptive will note a slight twitching of the upper lip in the more excitable of young women.

[InsaneApache]

No we don't. We spell "jail" as "gaol".

Gaol is correct. It's the difference between Jeffrey and Geoffrey. I mean, c'mon, Jeffrey Chaucer dunt really cut it, does it? :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

UK English Grammar vs. US English Grammar

There's a difference?:inquisitive:

I usually speak Estonian English(English with many many many spelling mistakes) and I'm proud of it!:smash:

[Pannonian]

It always seems the British folks get most pertrbed because we don't use sperflos 'u's and the like.

CR
I don't actually mind how people spell words, as long as it's correct in their country.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't actually mind houw people spell words, as long as it's correct in their cuountry.

I suppose you're the exception that proves the rule.

CR

[pevergreen]

No we don't. We spell "jail" as "gaol".

Interchangeble.

We don't give enough of a crap.

You write it and if you can read it, its good enough.

[Husar]

Or, perhaps more importantly, is this apostrophe correctly placed?
Of course not (http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000262.htm). I just recently explained it to a good orgah friend via PM, being the grammar nazi that I am and I can do it here again:

boat - singular
boats - plural
boat's - genitive singular ("the boat's deck" meaning the deck belonging to the boat)
boats' - genitive plural

The above is obviously a progressive pronoun which I actually didn't know myself but I knew you leave the apostrophe out, which is all that counts. :laugh4: :sweatdrop:


I use American and British English interchangeably, I've never been bothered by either.
So do I, we shortly talked about the differences at school I think and our teachers mostly just said we should decide for one and be consistent, which I'm not, I often decide for the British though, possibly because I just like to hear them speak. :laugh4:

[caravel]

I doubt either version is correct and I doubt most people really care (I don't). The missing letter 'u' is wrong, not sure where that originates, but apart from that both versions of english have diversified from their roots. It's the same as the pronunciation of c in Spain. If you go to South America it's pronounced normally, like an s, and not with the lisp sound. The South American version is closer to the original Spanish, where the Spanish version evolved separately.

:bow:

[Pannonian]

I doubt either version is correct and I doubt most people really care (I don't). The missing letter 'u' is wrong, not sure where that originates, but apart from that both versions of english have diversified from their roots. It's the same as the pronunciation of c in Spain. If you go to South America it's pronounced normally, like an s, and not with the lisp sound. The South American version is closer to the original Spanish, where the Spanish version evolved separately.

:bow:
The original root of English was correct, but over the years we developed an even more correct version of English, and with each passing day we correct it even more. The Americans, sadly, have decided not to follow our progress, and are thus left behind in the linguistic race.

[Beskar]

I think the English have the final say on this, because afterall, it is called English.

P.S. Please rename the thread title to "UK English Grammar vs. US English Grammer" , it is closer to the truth.

[Andres]

We were taught "British English" in secondary school.

Nowadays, I probably use both "American English" and "British English" without realising which English I'm using, since I'm not a native speaker.

[Weebeast]

Errbody need tha chill aight? Yall kno we borrowed words from da Romans? Errthang is correct and we just gotta learn da difference and enlightenize ourselves.

Edit - English is the most inconsistent language that I know of when it comes to grammar and pronunciation. I was walking down the street wearing my new pair of shoes while eating pear.

[Fragony]

Here we seem to be swifting from UK english to US english. When I was in school we had to talk with a british accent, which I always refused, I am Dutch not English so I speak English with a big fat Dutch accent and they can understand me just fine.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Who cares about small minority variants of English, like British or American? :book:

Europe alone has more English speakers than the entire Anglophone world. So does India.


So we'll take it from here, thank you very much.


English will develop further as a minority dialect in Britain and the US. Just like Latin evolved into minority dialects in Rome and Milan, variants that soon were mutually unintelligable to each other. Italian dialects that soon were useless in the world at large.
Meanwhile, the civilized world took over Latin from them. Then build a pan-European civilization around it for the next 1500 years. This is the future of English too. Soon, the English and Americans will have the disadvantage of speaking a useless minority variant while four billion others will speak the global standard English.


(Revenge is ours, we'll beat you at your own game, serves you right for picking the wrong language as the global standard etc etc)

[Pannonian]

Here we seem to be swifting from UK english to US english. When I was in school we had to talk with a british accent, which I always refused, I am Dutch not English so I speak English with a big fat Dutch accent and they can understand me just fine.
That's just rude. You should always make an effort to adopt the accent of your listener. Follow the admirable example of Shteve Mclaren.

[InsaneApache]

Who cares about small minority variants of English, like British or American? :book:

Europe alone has more English speakers than the entire Anglophone world. So does India.


So we'll take it from here, thank you very much.


English will develop further as a minority dialect in Britain and the US. Just like Latin evolved into minority dialects in Rome and Milan, variants that soon were mutually incomprehensible to each other.
Meanwhile, the civilized world took over Latin from them. Then build a pan-European civilization around it for the next 1500 years. This is the future of English too. Soon, the English and Americans will have the disadvantage of speaking a useless minority variant while four billion others will speak the global standard English.


(Revenge is ours, we'll beat you at your own game, serves you right for picking the wrong language as the global standard etc etc)

and there's more English speakers in China than in the rest of the world put together. Weep you Francophones. :whip: :yes:

[Fragony]

That's just rude. You should always make an effort to adopt the accent of your listener. Follow the admirable example of Shteve Mclaren.

If they have a problem with that then that's their problem. Not going to talk as if I have a hot potato stuck in my throat.

[InsaneApache]

If they have a problem with that then that's their problem. Not going to talk as if I have a hot potato stuck in my throat.

An old freind of mine from Aalsmeer said exactley that. Talking English was like talking with a hot potato in his mouth. Serves you all right. :laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

There is another mechanism.


Frenchmen with little education speak American English. (Or no English at all) Highly educated Frenchmen use British English. It is all to do with status.

Even if my English is a potpourri of British, American and other variants, whenever aware of it I will use British spelling and vocabulary. Not to impress the English speakers, or to make myself better understood to them - but to distinguish myself as a person of education and higher cultural norms to other non-native speakers. :yes:

[Vladimir]

There is another mechanism.


Frenchmen with little education speak American English. (Or no English at all) Highly educated Frenchmen use British English. It is all to do with status.

Even if my English is a potpourri of British, American and other variants, whenever aware of it I will use British spelling and vocabulary. Not to impress the English speakers, or to make myself better understood to them - but to distinguish myself as a person of education and higher cultural norms to other non-native speakers. :yes:

I need to borrow a pair of Strike's boots before walking through that post.

[Fragony]

HA we don't have any use for that we are Dutch that is our usual state, highly educated and culturally refined, and if you don't apreciate our higher cultural norms you can sit on it and spin suck it up and spit it out.

[InsaneApache]

HA we don't have any ush for that we are Dutch that ish our husual shtate, highly educated and culturally refined, and if you don't aprecshiate our higher cultural normsh you can shit on it and shpin shuck it up and shpit it out.

Admit it, you talk English like that. All you Dutcsh do. :laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

I need to borrow a pair of Strike's boots before walking through that post.Go on then! Have at it! :beam:

[Fragony]

Admit it, you talk English like that. All you Dutcsh do. :laugh4:

HA I speak 5 languages like that :smug:

[rvg]

Scottish accent is my personal favorite flavor of English. The U.S. midwestern is of course the gold standard, but Scottish is just plain fun.

[Subotan]

I can't speak for the British but every American I know rages out when they see the difference.
British spellings are pretty much the only things which differentiate "us" from "you", so one's nationalist, patriotic spirit is roused when we see "color".
Also, Humour > Humor.

HA we don't have any use for that we are Dutch that is our usual state, highly educated and culturally refined, and if you don't apreciate our higher cultural norms you can sit on it and spin suck it up and spit it out.
Pah, Dutch is just a mish-mash between German and English.

[Fragony]

Pah, Dutch is just a mish-mash between German and English.

Without actually being German or English. Small place, big world.

[miotas]

I don't care if overseas people spell words wrong differently, but I do get annoyed if they say my spelling is wrong.

Another difference is in the spelling of Centre, litre, metre.


Scottish accent is my personal favorite flavor of English. The U.S. midwestern is of course the gold standard, but Scottish is just plain fun.

I'd love to be a Scottish standup comedian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civFF_0pThk) ~D

[Tellos Athenaios]

Louis is right: the world is quite rapidly shifting towards the ‘Asian English’ by which I mean the English as commonly found in manuals and PR-material of Asian consumer goods manufacturers. That's the kind of grammar which does away with all possible cause for confusion by simply omitting all of it. On the upside they do introduce a far more rich phonology to English: namely the Asian accent.

[Kadagar_AV]

In most part of the world where I have been to, English English is seen as more classy. Usualy, the lower classes speaks more American English, while educated people speak English English.

I, for one, much prefer the English version...

My girlfriend speaks this perfectly accented brittish that the educated class in England speaks, I find it extremly sexy.

Specially compared to, say, the broad dialect in Texas or such. I dunno, it just doesnt have much class.

Sorry SFTS, nothing personal ;)

[Pannonian]

Louis is right: the world is quite rapidly shifting towards the ‘Asian English’ by which I mean the English as commonly found in manuals and PR-material of Asian consumer goods manufacturers. That's the kind of grammar which does away with all possible cause for confusion by simply omitting all of it. On the upside they do introduce a far more rich phonology to English: namely the Asian accent.
Ah, but which Asian English should prevail? East Asian, based on Japanese English and to a lesser extent Chinese English, or South Asian, based on Indian English?

Thinking about it, I think Indian English has British English as its standard, so it's not really an autonomous dialect after all. East Asian English has all sorts of fun with undefined determiners that lose seven degrees of sense when translated back and forth. One doesn't understand how common and important the is until one has tried to make sense of a Jap-English lyric.

[rvg]

Let the Euros learn whatever kinds of pidgin english they prefer. In the end, we'll screw everyone over and switch to Spanish.

[Viking]

I use British spelling to distinguish myself on teh intrawebz. I believe I speak American English, which is opposed to speaking with an accent.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Louis is right: the world is quite rapidly shifting towards the ‘Asian English’ by which I mean the English as commonly found in manuals and PR-material of Asian consumer goods manufacturers. That's the kind of grammar which does away with all possible cause for confusion by simply omitting all of it. On the upside they do introduce a far more rich phonology to English: namely the Asian accent.

Rich phonology will be the death of English, the extreme lack of inflection and limited phonological range are what make the language malleable and intelligable through a variety of accents. If you introduce subtleties it will be like learning Welsh!

How the Welsh manage I don't know, well actually they don't; they have a different written standard that bears no relation to any modern spoken form.


There is another mechanism.

Frenchmen with little education speak American English. (Or no English at all) Highly educated Frenchmen use British English. It is all to do with status.

Even if my English is a potpourri of British, American and other variants, whenever aware of it I will use British spelling and vocabulary. Not to impress the English speakers, or to make myself better understood to them - but to distinguish myself as a person of education and higher cultural norms to other non-native speakers. :yes:

This is exactly the same in England, "Standard" English is really South Midlands stripped of most of it's peculiarities. It is the language of Crown Clerks (Chancery Standard) and thence out modern politicians. Queen's English (as spoken by the aristocracy) is actually different, and I don't find it that attractive. One is a mark of education, the other of Class.

My own accent is primarily Surrey-based (my Father's) with moderations from my Mother's coarser rural Hampshire and a (surprisingly few) articles from my upbringing in Devon.

In the Provinces, people speak with an accent closer to an Eastern American in general, but different in particulars.

[Subotan]

Without actually being German or English. Small place, big world.

Touché. :bow:

[Samurai Waki]

I remember in High School I used to write words like "Gaol", "Tyr", "Cheque", and "Aluminium" just to piss on my English Teacher's shoes, so-to-speak.

[rvg]

I remember in High School I used to write words like "Gaol", "Tyr", "Cheque", and "Aluminium" just to piss on my English Teacher's shoes, so-to-speak.

Yeah, all those words piss me off immensely. Especially "cheque". For God's sake, people, write in English.

[ajaxfetish]

I wonder. Do the British and the Americans get annoyed when they see grammar different from their's? Also, what are the other differences in English grammar? And what about Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa? I started to be aware (and worry) of how I write in English when I started to chat with the world.
Well, I'm currently studying linguistics, and I find the differences fascinating. Another interesting one: after a coronal consonant (one pronounced with the tip of the tongue), American English does not allow the diphthong [iu]. You'll find it after other American consonants (huge, cute, pure, beauty), but not after coronals. British English does allow [iu] after coronals, however, hence the different pronunciations of words like news, tune, lurid, presume, and suit.

Anyway, if you're interested in finding more differences, you can check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences

Ajax

[Husar]

Another difference is in the spelling of Centre, litre, metre.

Oh yes, those are the ones where I got for the american spelling of center, meter, liter because that's exactly the german spelling as well and I don't understand why they do it wrong in Britain... :inquisitive:

[Subotan]

Oh yes, those are the ones where I got for the american spelling of center, meter, liter because that's exactly the german spelling as well and I don't understand why they do it wrong in Britain... :inquisitive:

It looks better that way. Also, I dunno about other English speakers, but "re" makes me says a shorter "r" sound than "er".

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It looks bettre that way. Also, I dunno about other English speakres, but "re" makes me says a shortre "r" sound than "er".

Fixed :laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh yes, those are the ones where I got for the american spelling of center, meter, liter because that's exactly the german spelling as well and I don't understand why they do it wrong in Britain... :inquisitive:The British spell it as 'centre, metre, etc' to honour their cultural overlords from whom they aquired these concepts. :book:

[Brenus]

I use the English English (even changing the keyboard set-up) in support of our unfortunate cousins who forget their French, in their desperate fight to look as independent country from the USA.
It is probably their only remaining independent path from the USA.

Until when the US will tolerate it is another question…?:inquisitive:

“Rule Britannia, Rule on the waves” (the sound ones, at least).

[rvg]

So far, American English is far more useful and informative than any other variation of the language. Just look at the little gem known as "y'all". Perfectly addresses a small deficiency in the simplest and most elegant way.

[pevergreen]

Admit it, you talk English like that. All you Dutcsh do. :laugh4:

And yet when I met The Stranger I found that he had quite a british accent for a dutchman.



Just be thankful us aussies don't type in an aussie accent.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It looks better that way. Also, I dunno about other English speakers, but "re" makes me says a shorter "r" sound than "er".

I type it that way as well, mostly for aesthetic purposes.

[AlexanderSextus]

There was a band called "The Meters" but there was never a band called "The Metres"

so therefore the correct spelling has now been confirmed. :egypt:

Oh, and it is Half and aitch not 'alf and haitch.

[Kadagar_AV]

We ALL know that it is only the words that matters, not the thought behind it!

As an example... I could (in this forum) say that the swedish people in general is rapist killers who should not be allowed to exist*.

That would not be blatant racism. However, damn me if I say the F-word
or the N-word.














* I could have a rant about vikings about this, if I set all science aside ;)

[InsaneApache]

Yeah, all those words piss me off immensely. Especially "cheque". For God's sake, people, write in English.

It comes from the chequer board. As does the UK finance minister. The Chancellor of the Exchequer.

I don't know. :book:

[Louis VI the Fat]

In England, you ask for the cheque and pay with a bill. In America, you ask for the bill and pay with a check.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Usually you ask for the check and pay with a credit card :sweatdrop:

[pevergreen]

Ask for the bill, get disgusted at how much it costs, inform waiter that we shoulda stayed home and thrown another snag or two on the barbie for half the bloody price and it would have tasted better and why does this place support collingwood, thats silly, this is queensland dammit.

Then pay and leave.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Oh that is SO bad!

We ALL know that it is only the words that matters, not the thought behind it!

As an example... I could (in this forum) say that the swedish people in general is rapist killers who should not be allowed to exist*.

That would not be blatant racism. However, damn me if I say the F-word
or the N-word.

Hey, do not laugh at me :P. I have gotten infraction for literally everything you can possibly get in this place. I have gotten infractions for the usage of uncensored profanity do demonstrate its usage, I have gotten infractions when quoting a famous person's profanity, I have used profanity with all but the first letter obscured and got an infraction for that (I said "f" and then ": daisy :").

In other words, regardless of what my opinion is on the rules, I try follow them, and I am not taking any chances.

Plus, it is often difficult to understand what the thoughts behind the words are on the Internet, as all you see is the words; the letters. In RL the tone, pitch, loudness, the facial expression, the other body language signs can make things obvious that are not so on the Net. Once again, do not laugh at me - I do not make the rules :shrug:

[pevergreen]

Quite correct, yet there are ways.

eg:

I ******* hate you!

against

I :daisy: hate you! :clown:

Which one would you take in jest?

[Shaka_Khan]

Well, I'm currently studying linguistics, and I find the differences fascinating. Another interesting one: after a coronal consonant (one pronounced with the tip of the tongue), American English does not allow the diphthong [iu]. You'll find it after other American consonants (huge, cute, pure, beauty), but not after coronals. British English does allow [iu] after coronals, however, hence the different pronunciations of words like news, tune, lurid, presume, and suit.

Anyway, if you're interested in finding more differences, you can check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences

Ajax

Thanks.

[AlexanderSextus]

In America, you ask for the bill and pay with a check.

Where i'm from we always say "check please!" when we're done eating at a restaurant.

[miotas]

Well I thought that I knew most of the differences, but I never knew you guys write check. Also, when I see the american spellings I always think that it's how a young child would write before they learn how to spell properly, especially airplane.


Just look at the little gem known as "y'all". Perfectly addresses a small deficiency in the simplest and most elegant way.

What about youse?

[ajaxfetish]

What about youse?
Equally awesome. Also cool is the distinction between y'all and all y'all, and between yous and yous guys.

Ajax

[miotas]

What about youse?
Equally awesome. Also cool is the distinction between y'all and all y'all, and between yous and yous guys.

Ajax

Yet another spelling difference.
:laugh4:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well I thought that I knew most of the differences, but I never knew you guys write check. Also, when I see the american spellings I always think that it's how a young child would write before they learn how to spell properly, especially airplane.


The word aeroplane is an abomination. Airplane is much more concise, to the point, and doesn't remind me of low quality chocolate.

[miotas]

The word aeroplane is an abomination. Airplane is much more concise, to the point, and doesn't remind me of low quality chocolate.

Well aeroplane reminds me of jelly(I mean jelly, not jam), but airplane seriously makes me think of a 2 year old who can't get their mouth around aeroplane.

[AlexanderSextus]

America has so many accents it's not even funny.

Like how people from Massachusetts say "cahh pahk" instead of "car park".

and "hahhba" instead of "harbor".

[A Very Super Market]

Britain has more, you know, because it's older.

Same with any European country. I hear Swabians are entirely incomprehensible to Northerners.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Same with any European country. I hear Swabians are entirely incomprehensible to Northerners.

Forget German, you've never heard anyone from the depths of Oberbayern speaking English. :2thumbsup:

[ajaxfetish]

Yet another spelling difference.
:laugh4:
Honestly, not being from New York, I have no idea how a proper Brooklyner would spell it. My thinking was that adding only -s would emphasize the relationship to the plural -s suffix, but I didn't want to alter your quote*.

Ajax





*(there's another difference btw: the use of either quote or quotation as a noun in American English, while if I'm correctly informed only quotation is allowed as a noun in British English)

[Banquo's Ghost]

This discussion is not an opportunity for disruptive members to test the boundaries of the rules.

Some have fallen foul. Others will follow in short order. :beadyeyes:

[Husar]

The British spell it as 'centre, metre, etc' to honour their cultural overlords from whom they aquired these concepts. :book:

I know that, the concepts are nice and I like them, however I'm of the opinion that these cultural overlords have a big gap between what they say and what they write and should thus not be taken very seriously concerning what they write, talk about superfluous letters at the end of every second word, not to mention that when you say "er" it would make sense to write "er" instead of "re". In the case of the cultural overlords I wouldn't be surprised if they write "centre" and say "cent" because they always leave half the word out when they say it. :inquisitive:
Well, one can't excel in everything, the measurement system itself is quite ingenious IMO. :2thumbsup:

[Subotan]

Forget German, you've never heard anyone from the depths of Oberbayern speaking English. :2thumbsup:

Just for reference:
English: Hello, I'm Peter and I come from Munich.
Hochdeutsch (Normal German): Hallo, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München.
Bavarian: Habèderè, i bî da Pèda und kumm vo Minga.
:dizzy2:

[miotas]

[...]talk about superfluous letters at the end of every second word, not to mention that when you say "er" it would make sense to write "er" instead of "re".[...]

"re" is pronounced differently to "er", that's why some words are written with the longer "er" ending and some with the short "re", they could probably be written like metr and centr, but that just looks silly :tongue:

[pevergreen]

I was playing a game with some americans the other day, and they were questioning me about speaking australian.

My favourite question was:

"Do you really stand in queue's down there? Not in long lines?"

[Husar]

"re" is pronounced differently to "er", that's why some words are written with the longer "er" ending and some with the short "re", they could probably be written like metr and centr, but that just looks silly :tongue:

And wasting precious time, paper, colour, bandwidth, space and fresh air to always add a superfluous e to the end of a word is not silly? :inquisitive:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Just for reference:
English: Hello, I'm Peter and I come from Munich.
Hochdeutsch (Normal German): Hallo, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München.
Bavarian: Habèderè, i bî da Pèda und kumm vo Minga.
:dizzy2:

"I am Peter and I come from Munich"

Which just demonstrates how close English and High German are.


And wasting precious time, paper, colour, bandwidth, space and fresh air to always add a superfluous e to the end of a word is not silly? :inquisitive:

No, because the "e" stretches the "r" sound, otherwise you would need "cent'r", which is worse. "center" would be pronounced like "better", that reflects American pronunciation, but not English.

Also, language tends towards contraction, not expansion.

[Viking]

Also, language tends towards contraction, not expansion.

Not strictly. Take a look at this etymology:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rau%C3%B0ur

I don't know of any better examples (or perhaps, more relevant for this topic), but typically Old Norse -r became -er (Scandinavian) or -ur (Icelandic/Faroese).

[Strike For The South]

Where i'm from we always say "check please!" when we're done eating at a restaurant.

That's because it's nothing but Ital's. Going into a restaurant in Jersey is like walking into a buzzsaw. Loud, confusing, and lots of guys who shop at the big n tall.

The correct thing to do is this:

Sir, May I have the check?

Yes sir, I'll bring that right out to you

Thank you

You're welcome.

No yelling and no demanding. You yankees are always in a hurry.

[Vladimir]

That's because it's nothing but Ital's. Going into a restaurant in Jersey is like walking into a buzzsaw. Loud, confusing, and lots of guys who shop at the big n tall.

The correct thing to do is this:

Sir, May I have the check?

Yes sir, I'll bring that right out to you

Thank you

You're welcome.

No yelling and no demanding. You yankees are always in a hurry.

That's why you people still ride horses. Get off the road! :furious3:

[Louis VI the Fat]

The correct thing to do is this:

Sir, May I have the check?

Yes sir, I'll bring that right out to you

Thank you

You're welcome.

No yelling and no demanding. You yankees are always in a hurry.An entire conversation, in English, without any occurrence of that most essential of British words: 'please'.


:wall:


See, this is what I meant in the 'you uncivili(z/s)ed brute' thread. It is not so much the words or the spelling, but the use of language that is the most telling difference between American or British English.

Strike's conversation just screams 'America'. Here's the same conversation in Britain:
'Excuse me, could we have the cheque please?'
'Sod off, mate'
'Oh pardon me. Ever so sorry to disturb you'
'Can't you see I'm busy, you *anagram of Newark*?'

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

An entire conversation, in English, without any occurrence of that most essential of British words: 'please'.


:wall:


See, this is what I meant in the 'you uncivili(z/s)ed brute' thread. It is not so much the words or the spelling, but the use of language that is the most telling difference between American or British English.

Strike's conversation just screams 'America'. Here's the same conversation in Britain:
'Excuse me, could we have the cheque please?'
'Sod off, mate'
'Oh pardon me. Ever so sorry to disturb you'
'Can't you see I'm busy, you *anagram of Newark*?'

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say:

"Excuse me, could I see the bill please?

Your example provokes the "sod off" response for obvious reasons.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say:

"Excuse me, could I see the bill please?

You're example provokes the "sod off" response for obvious reasons.That explains it all!
:idea2:

[Vladimir]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say:

"Excuse me, could I see the bill please?

You're example provokes the "sod off" response for obvious reasons.

You see, this is what *I* hate. :wall:

[Fisherking]

Drat!

This thread has run on for four pages before I saw it!:laugh4:


Anyway, who ever said that the British is correct because it is English , (if they did) is so full of it!

Yes, all my spelling depends on Microsoft, but you may want to research the language before making blanket statements everyone.

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.


You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

[Viking]

You see, this is what *I* hate. :wall:

Its a disaster.

[Subotan]

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.
Wait, what?

Its a disaster.

I'm guessing that was intentional. :inquisitive:

[Samurai Waki]

Drat!You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

Ah, so thats why Hollywood always casts Americans who can't fake a British Accent, for roles meant to be played by 17th Century Englishmen/women. It's more authentic. :laugh4:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Drat!

This thread has run on for four pages before I saw it!:laugh4:


Anyway, who ever said that the British is correct because it is English , (if they did) is so full of it!

Yes, all my spelling depends on Microsoft, but you may want to research the language before making blanket statements everyone.

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.


You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

First comprehensive dictionary in English was Samuel Johnson (1755), that's where our spellings originate, and it's the starting point for the OED.

Webster didn't have decisive impact, did he?

[Beskar]

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.

Nah, it isn't fixed, full of errors. Shavian is closer to being actually fixed English, though Esperanto is closer to a fixed language.

[Pannonian]

First comprehensive dictionary in English was Samuel Johnson (1755), that's where our spellings originate, and it's the starting point for the OED.

Wasn't that destroyed in a fire though? Or am I confusing that with another book?

[Beskar]

Wasn't that destroyed in a fire though? Or am I confusing that with another book?

No no, Blackadder's play was destroyed in the fire.He thought he destroyed the dictionary.

[Fisherking]

Ah, so thats why Hollywood always casts Americans who can't fake a British Accent, for roles meant to be played by 17th Century Englishmen/women. It's more authentic. :laugh4:

I am sure it is only accidental, but yes it is more of the sound of the age.

Most Elizabethan speakers would have sounded like Dubliners to our ears.

North American speakers reflect the vowel sounds of the 17th and 18th century.

The change occurred in England, not abroad.

The Australians reflect the changed sounds at the time of there settlement and the further change can hear in the further changes of the New Zealanders who were settled later.

Spelling is more arbitrary and reflects the vowel sounds of the person who decided that what thy wrote was correct.

Think of how the spelling would have changed if the first dictionary were published in Cork or Glasgow.

What we think of as standard English (BBC English) didn’t come about until the mid 1820s. Prior to that the standard form would have sounded more like a North American speaker.

[Captain Fishpants]

I have to agree with much of what Fisher King has said.

"American" English does have some structures and cadences that are older in form that "British" or English" English.

That doesn't make it better or worse, just interestingly different. Then again, I speak with a "northern" accent as far as many of my colleagues are concerned (southern wendies that many of them are, of course :clown:). Is that better or worse, or just different? Does it matter? Well, no.

Changes in British/English English are the result of having an overseas empire, as much as anything else. You only have to look at the number of borrowed (or stolen) words in English to realise how much the language was changed by the Imperial experience.

But the thing that really buggered up demotic English, IMO, in its homeland was "Received Pronunciation", the kind of strangulated waffle that was became good BBC announcer English and the way to be an "ack-tor" at one point. I'm of the opinion that this form can be traced back to social snobbery in Victorian England. This meant that local accents and dialects were abandoned by the middle and aspirant classes in droves: the result was a change in pronunciations that we're still going through.

[InsaneApache]

Aye it's a good point about how the Empire affected spoken English. There are a lot of words in British English that have their roots in Urdu/Hindi.

Blighty. Decca. Chivvy. Bungalow. All words purloined from the sub-continent. As the septics decided to leave the Empire at just about the point that India was being invited to join, there's no surprise that the language diverged.

As a northern speaker myself I have to say bath is correct, Not barth.

(southern wendies lmfao :laugh4:)

[Vladimir]

As a northern speaker myself I have to say bath is correct, Not barth.

(southern wendies lmfao :laugh4:)

Gah! Something else I hate: :wall:

Wash my arse is OK.

Warsh my arse isn't!

[pevergreen]

I'm going to have a baaarth.
Going to baaathe.

How we say it. :shrug:

[Fisherking]

But the thing that really buggered up demotic English, IMO, in its homeland was "Received Pronunciation", the kind of strangulated waffle that was became good BBC announcer English and the way to be an "ack-tor" at one point. I'm of the opinion that this form can be traced back to social snobbery in Victorian England. This meant that local accents and dialects were abandoned by the middle and aspirant classes in droves: the result was a change in pronunciations that we're still going through.

Exactly!

It is the only know language change that cam from the upper classes down. The stretched hollow vowels and the dropping of the “R” sound in the middle of words.:smash:

We also owe the North of England a great linguistic debt. They gave us our “S” plurals. Had it been left to the south we would have a system like the Germans, which is no system at all that I can detect. You just memorize the plural. They must have 40 ways to do it.

:laugh4:

[Beskar]

Received Pronunciation aka, the Queen's English.

[ajaxfetish]

Most Elizabethan speakers would have sounded like Dubliners to our ears.

North American speakers reflect the vowel sounds of the 17th and 18th century.

The change occurred in England, not abroad.

The Australians reflect the changed sounds at the time of there settlement and the further change can hear in the further changes of the New Zealanders who were settled later.


I've heard it argued that there's a general trend toward more conservative language in colonies compared to home countries. A possible explanation is that the colonists, leaving so much behind and facing so much change, look for things they can hold on to, and that language can fill that role. In the home country, without such worry and clinging, language change proceeds more naturally.

Ajax

[AlexanderSextus]

That's because it's nothing but Ital's. Going into a restaurant in Jersey is like walking into a buzzsaw. Loud, confusing, and lots of guys who shop at the big n tall.

The correct thing to do is this:

Sir, May I have the check?

Yes sir, I'll bring that right out to you

Thank you

You're welcome.

No yelling and no demanding. You yankees are always in a hurry.

You rednecks always have to make things so complicated. :dizzy2: Why say all that when you can just stick your finger in the air, Exclaim, "Check Please!" Recieve the check, then say "Thanks" and Thats it?:inquisitive:







An entire conversation, in English, without any occurrence of that most essential of British words: 'please'.


:wall:


See, this is what I meant in the 'you uncivili(z/s)ed brute' thread. It is not so much the words or the spelling, but the use of language that is the most telling difference between American or British English.

Strike's conversation just screams 'America'. Here's the same conversation in Britain:
'Excuse me, could we have the cheque please?'
'Sod off, mate'
'Oh pardon me. Ever so sorry to disturb you'
'Can't you see I'm busy, you *anagram of Newark*?'


You may have noticed that the much shorter NJ way of doing it actually does include "please".

That's why it works so well. Polite and Assertive, as well as short and to the point. :smash:

[Strike For The South]

You rednecks always have to make things so complicated. :dizzy2: Why say all that when you can just stick your finger in the air, Exclaim, "Check Please!" Recieve the check, then say "Thanks" and Thats it?:inquisitive:


Rednecks? I'm sorry we have class and manners. I'm sorry we're not in a rush to do everything, slow down you'll live longer.

You yankees are just like Europeans. You're fast paced and you talk funny.

[AlexanderSextus]

I'm sorry we have class and manners.


Apology Accepted. We were really getting tired of you being so stuck up, ya know.


:laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4:

[Subotan]

So SFTS is a Southern Gentleman? The height of Texan Culture?The zenith of American sophistication?

Wellll, I guess those would all mean something if that excellent quote by Jacques Chirac that Louis has in his sig wasn't true :beam:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Rednecks? I'm sorry we have class and manners. I'm sorry we're not in a rush to do everything, slow down you'll live longer.

You yankees are just like Europeans. You're fast paced and you talk funny.

I take it you can actually satisfy honour with a sabre or rapier, then?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I take it you can actually satisfy honour with a sabre or rapier, then?

A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

[Samurai Waki]

A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

A Texan's only weapon of honour is of course, his fists. And they duel to the death.

[Banquo's Ghost]

A Texan's only weapon of honour is of course, his fists.

Nonsense, sirrah. A gentlemen does not duel with fisticuffs and Texans are gentlemen. Boxing is a sport.

Those Mexican fellows at the Alamo were met with lead and cold steel. Maybe a barbeque grating or two, historians appear to be unclear on the latter.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

My assumption was that, being Texan, he was proficient with with firearms, Sir.

[Strike For The South]

Eh I'm not a Southern Gentleman. They tend to drink fruity cocktails and like boys. Not to mention I'm from Texas not the south

I'm more of a cowboy.

[Cronos Impera]

Why need Brittish and American English, when we have OrgSpeak.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2221243#post2221243