Desertion????

[vpapako]

I have a question. What about desertion? It is something that historically happened and we did not see in previous mods. I suppose the main reason was that the RTW game engine did not support that feature. So what about the M2TW game engine? I remember there was some desertion when a crusading army was not pursuing it's goal. Can this be used to trigger desertion when an army is not very well disciplined or when the enemy forces seem massiveor something like that?

[Owen Glyndwr]

I'm sure there was desertion in Ancient times just as surely as there was desertion in the 17th Century or as there is desertion today.

If I recall, decimation as a punishment was reserved for individual or group desertions. Give me a second to find the source.

EDIT: Found it. Source: Polybius, The Histories VI.37.2-4. 38.1-3


"This is inflicted as follows: The tribune takes a cudgel and just touches the condemned man with it, after which all in the camp beat or stone him, in most cases despatching him in the camp itself. But even those who manage to escape are not saved thereby: For they are not allowed to return to their homes, and none of the family would dare to receive such a man in his house. So that those who have once fallen into this misfortune are utterly ruined..."


"If the same thing happens to large bodies, and if entire maniples desert their posts when exceedingly hard pressed, the officers refrain from inflicting the bastinado or the death penalty at all, but find a solution of the difficulty that is both salutary and terror-striking. The tribune assembles the legion, and brings up those guilty of leaving the ranks, reproaches them sharply, and finally chooses by lot sometimes five, sometimes eight, sometimes twenty of the offenders, so adjusting the number thus chosen that they form as near as possible the tenth part of those guilty of cowardice. Those on whom the lot falls are bastinadoed mercilessly in the manner above described; the rest receive rations of barley instead of wheat and are ordered to encamp outside the camp on an unprotected spot. As therefore the danger and dread of drawing the fatal lot affects all equally, as it is uncertain on whom it will fall; and as the public disgrace of receiving barley rations falls on all alike, this practice is that best calculated both to inspire fear and to correct the mischief."

EDIT whoops, misread the question. Oh well, if a moderator wants this removed, I will do so promptly.

[The General]

I have a question. What about desertion? It is something that historically happened and we did not see in previous mods. I suppose the main reason was that the RTW game engine did not support that feature. So what about the M2TW game engine? I remember there was some desertion when a crusading army was not pursuing it's goal. Can this be used to trigger desertion when an army is not very well disciplined or when the enemy forces seem massiveor something like that?

This would require the use of Crusades, I believe, and I also believe Crusades will not be used in EBII.

I might of course be wrong.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Maybe you could somehow combine the crusade desertion to traits like starving and very unsure troops.

~Fluvius

[Foot]

Maybe you could somehow combine the crusade desertion to traits like starving and very unsure troops.

~Fluvius

Impossible. We cannot take the effects of one system (the Crusades) and transplant them into another (the Traits and Ancillaries). The game just doesn't working like that.

Foot

[Alexandros_III]

Thats too bad. Some of the crusade features were pretty good.

[Cute Wolf]

but I have my low loyalty FM desert me for no reason... turn into rebels and hit his own father..... It looks like if starving, we could cut their loyalty....

[Fluvius Camillus]

but I have my low loyalty FM desert me for no reason... turn into rebels and hit his own father..... It looks like if starving, we could cut their loyalty....

Great, thats a much better version than my idea. Now let's see if EB team did not already thougth of it.

~Fluvius

[Skullheadhq]

Great, thats a much better version than my idea. Now let's see if EB team did not already thougth of it.

~Fluvius

Indeed, why would a wealthy prince betray his own father for some rabble with absolutely no chance to take on the old king?

[Knight of Ne]

Indeed, why would a wealthy prince betray his own father for some rabble with absolutely no chance to take on the old king?

Because he's bold, ambitious and stupid. :laugh4:
Plus it must have happened at some point in history surely?

Ne

[Fluvius Camillus]

Because he's bold, ambitious and stupid. :laugh4:
Plus it must have happened at some point in history surely?

Ne

Well how often did you read about some revolts in the early Roman Empire, which were so pathetic that they were barely worth mentioning, but the revolters thougth they had a serious chance...

~Fluvius

[Skullheadhq]

Well how often did you read about some revolts in the early Roman Empire, which were so pathetic that they were barely worth mentioning, but the revolters thougth they had a serious chance...

~Fluvius
2 units of peasants and some flaming pigs is not exactly a serious chance...

[Cute Wolf]

2 units of peasants and some flaming pigs is not exactly a serious chance...

Low-Loyalty and goes to rebel only exist in M2TW...
If we want this in BI, we should get a shadow faction for that faction...
Well he'll get some chance if the king is only with his bodyguards... at least pigs disrupt horsies, and peasants are useful fodder while his own bodyguard slain his father's....

[Skullheadhq]

so interesting...

[tarem]

i was in a dilema of opening a different topic for my quetion, but i think it's related so i'll post it here. what about attrition? you know like in europa universalis? if a province is too small/poor it can't suport a large army camping or traveling through it for extended periods of time (especially a hostile army), so a percentage of the army perishes (as a result of sicknes, famine, disertion)? :book:

[A Very Super Market]

I don't think that's possible. In TW, only entire units can disband at once, and cannot take steady casualties.

[tarem]

what about the plague and riot events? are those bound to cities only? (you know, when some of your men perish in the afore mentioned events)

[A Very Super Market]

Both are bound to city garrisons.

[ziegenpeter]

But floods etc can also effect armies outside cities

[Foot]

We cannot take the effects of one event and apply them to another. Game doesn't work that way.

Foot

[antisocialmunky]

I think the rebellion rate in MIITW for small stacks of captain stacks was pretty high in vanilla.

[tarem]

We cannot take the effects of one event and apply them to another. Game doesn't work that way.

Foot

too bad :no:
but thanx for the reply :2thumbsup:

[Cute Wolf]

I think the rebellion rate in MIITW for small stacks of captain stacks was pretty high in vanilla.

It only happened if your faction leader has low or no authority, 6 points of authority or more typically result on no desertion at all...