PDA

View Full Version : Preview: The Sauromatae



-Praetor-
11-10-2009, 00:31
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.


https://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8036/sarmatianbanneru.jpg




Today we are proud to present the Sauromatae, who shall appear once again in Europa Barbarorum II. The settled peoples have always feared the nomads, for their horses are swift and their arrows accurate. And on the western steppes, the Sauromatae reign supreme.

Every one that has faced them before, has fallen like grass beneath their hooves. Where shall they steer their mounts now?


https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

Faction Description




Why should there be an end to the fighting?

It is true that, after generations of struggle, our horses now graze on most of the lands the Scythians once called their own and that we rule over a large territory. We now count the time it takes to travel across it in months and our people and herds prosper, but the great steppe still extends beyond our dominions. There are yet more pastures to win for our flocks to grow even larger, and there live peoples not unlike us, who build no cities and dwell in wagons and tents. They also wage war as we do, largely on horseback with most as swift mounted archers that no foot troops will ever catch and some also wearing armor and wielding spears. Those will not be easy battles, but a strong ruler could bind those peoples to him and command an immense host of riders: an army such as has never been seen before.

Yes, merchants must now travel through our lands to carry their wares from east to west and from north to south and from such trading we have grown wealthier than our fathers. However, the traders still finish their journeys in the cities of the Yavanas, the Greeks, on the seashore at our southern border. All trade eventually goes there and their dwellers are rich beyond measure from it. They drink wine every day if they so wish and own all sorts of luxuries: fine pottery and bright arms and armors. What warriors would not follow a lord with such wealth at his command? How great would be the fame of such a leader?

East or west, north or south. In the end, will it matter where we ride first? Wherever we go, there will still be other lands, other nations beyond: the land of Hayasdan and the kingdoms of the Yavanas and then others whose names we do not yet know. Regions said to be even richer, fertile and of mild climate, abundant in streams and grazing. There is no man in our tribes who is not eager to please the God of War, whose name is not to be spoken aloud and whom we see in the naked sword, by winning fame and fortune through war and battle. Why, then, not let the dragon standards fly forever? Why not ride until the seas deny us passage? As long as there are riches and glory to be won and land upon which horses can gallop, why should there be an end to the fighting?


https://i.imagehost.org/0135/map_f_sauromatae.jpg

https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

The Settlements

Village - Town
https://img188.imageshack.us/img188/261/villagez.jpg https://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4697/town.jpg

Large Town - City
https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1882/largetown.jpg https://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4157/citypg.jpg

Large City - Huge City
https://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7987/largecity.jpg https://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2558/hugecity.jpg

Small Nomad Camps - Nomad Camps

https://a.imagehost.org/0254/scamp.jpg https://a.imagehost.org/0572/camp.jpg

Large Nomad Camps - Huge Nomad Camps

https://a.imagehost.org/0964/lcamp.jpg https://a.imagehost.org/0364/hcamp.jpg


https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

The Warriors




Sauromatae Fistaeg Fat Aexsdzhytae (Sarmatian Foot Archers)

https://i.imagehost.org/0992/p1.jpg
https://i.imagehost.org/0430/p3.jpg
https://i.imagehost.org/0029/p2.jpg




Unlike most other Sauromatae, many of the bowmen from Sauromatae groups that have become settled do not shoot their arrows from horseback, but fight on foot. Certainly, foot archers lack the mobility of their mounted counterparts. In exchange, men on foot need less space than those on horseback. Thus, foot archers can be deployed in tighter formations that provide heavier arrow barrages. And the composite bows that these foot archers employ maintain still the qualities of those of their nomadic relatives.

Historically, several groups of Sauromatae became sedentary when they moved into areas (Ciscaucasia, the Hungarian Plain, etc.) where farming was a viable option to their traditional pastoral nomadism. The Siracae, for example, were a relatively small Sarmatian group that occupied the southern edges of the steppe along the Black Sea and in Ciscaucasia. Since quite early, they initiated a process of settlement and hellenization and, while still fielding armies with numerous cavalry, they resorted to infantry most than any other Sauromatae in the centuries BC. Presumably, the abundance of horsemen may have not been the only trace that steppe warfare left upon the ways of waging war of settled Sarmatians and substantial numbers of their infantry seem to have been archers using composite bows.


Sauromatae Fat Aexsdzhytae (Sarmatian Horse-Archers)


https://a.imagehost.org/0802/p4.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0340/p5.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0856/p1.jpg




A swarm of nimble, mounted archers riding sturdy steppe ponies is the backbone of most Sauromatae armies and, if adequately handled, they can be a very effective force all by themselves. Most enemies will be slower or have a shorter range. The horse archers can keep peppering them with arrows for hours or days, evading if approached and closing in only when casualties and loss of cohesion have sufficiently weakened their foes. Typical horse archers, however, are not particularly well-suited for hand-to-hand combat. Armour and heavy weapons are expensive and so are the big horses that can deal with the added weight: only nobles and kings can afford such luxuries. Hence, typical horse archers carry little or no armour and are likely to suffer if forced into melee against most adversaries.

Historically, life as nomadic herders on the steppe produced highly skilled bowmen and riders who could put those abilities to very good use on a battlefield. For over two millennia, these warriors were levied from the diverse nomads that roamed the vast Eurasian steppe and were a central and iconic component of their armies. Horse archer armies relied on mobility (at the strategic and tactical levels) and their excellent composite bows to win their battles and wars and their victories could be truly devastating. Both Macedonians and Romans at the peak of their military power saw some of their armies totally annihilated by enemies relying on horse archers and steppe tactics.


Aursa Baexdzhyntae (Aorsi Riders)


https://h.imagehost.org/0403/p3.jpg
https://h.imagehost.org/0494/p2.jpg
https://h.imagehost.org/0864/p1.jpg




The Aursa Baexdzhyntae (Aorsi Riders) are the base of the armies fielded by the Aorsi, one of several major Sauromatae groups. Aorsi Riders are first and foremost horse archers, but, on average, Aorsi tribesmen are somewhat better equipped than their counterparts from other, earlier Sauromatae tribes. Thus, they often wear a measure of simple armor and tend to carry spears in addition to their bows. Hence, they can give a slightly better account of themselves if they find themselves engaged in hand-to-hand combat. Not that they will actively seek it, however. At least not against enemies whom archery fire, feigned retreats and sudden false charges have not thrown yet into utter confusion and demoralization.

Historically, the Aorsi were one of the most powerful Sauromatae confederacies. Though almost certainly a major exaggeration, Strabo credited the smaller of their two subdivisions with the capability of fielding an army of 200,000 riders. Also, graves ascribed to the Aorsi by the archaeologists attest to a certain prosperity and tend to be relatively well-equipped. In any case, their dominions extended east as far as the Caspian, or, probably, even the Aral Sea. In the west, they occupied the steppe between the Volga and Don rivers for a long time. Eventually, they moved west beyond the Don, pushed perhaps by the emergence of the Alans who might have absorbed or conquered many of them.


Ragon Sauromatae Uaezdaettae (Sarmatian Noble Horse-Archers)

https://a.imagehost.org/0162/p1.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0802/p3.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0443/p5.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0245/p4.jpg




Sauromatae nobles are among the few in their society that can actually afford the very high costs of reasonably good defensive gear and of the larger horses which are able to carry a rider wearing such heavy equipment. Those expenses pay off by conferring them the ability to engage in hand-to-hand combat with some guaranties and, not to be forgotten, better looks than their less wealthy fellows. Nonetheless, in the early stages of the Sauromatae culture, even nobles carry only limited amounts of armour and are better thought of as medium or even light cavalry. Fortunately, they can still rely on their archery skills, in no way inferior to those of any other Sauromatae warrior and, although modest, the improvement in their equipment does allow them to carry out certain special tasks. Thus, they can fight enemy light cavalry with good prospects of victory. They can deal with enemy horse archers by either winning archery duels with them (thanks to their better armor) or by chasing them and beating them in melee (if they manage to catch them). They can also accelerate the collapse of enemy infantry still in relatively good shape through rear or flank charges and take good care of foot skirmishers. However, they are not prepared to frontally charge any decent close order infantry.

Historically, the noble elite of the steppe nomads was able to afford better equipment for war and, thus, provided their armies with a core of heavier cavalry capable of hand-to-hand combat. How many of the nomads could afford the better gear and its amount and quality, depended on the wealth and access to resources such as mineral ore of each nomad group. Consequently, it varied substantially in space and time. In the particular case of the Ancient Sauromatae Culture, archaeological and literary sources suggest than metal armour was quite rare.


The Sauromatae Draco-Bearer

https://i.imagehost.org/0093/p1.jpg
https://a.imagehost.org/0979/p6.jpg

https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

The Sauromatae in action

https://i.imagehost.org/t/0576/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae2.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0576/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae2)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0375/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae3.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0375/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae3)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0685/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae1.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0685/sauromatae_fistaeg_fat_baedzynthae1)

https://i.imagehost.org/t/0621/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae1.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0621/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae1)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0663/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae2.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0663/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae2)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0558/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae3.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0558/sauromatae_fat_baedzynthae3)

https://i.imagehost.org/t/0193/aursa_baedzynthae4.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0193/aursa_baedzynthae4)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0391/aursa_baedzynthae3.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0391/aursa_baedzynthae3)https://i.imagehost.org/t/0587/aursa_baedzynthae2.jpg (https://i.imagehost.org/view/0587/aursa_baedzynthae2)

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278903_sen1.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278903/sen1.jpg.html) http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278907_sen5.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278907/sen5.jpg.html) http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278911_sen6.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278911/sen6.jpg.html)
http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278913_sen8.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278913/sen8.jpg.html) http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278914_sen9.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278914/sen9.jpg.html) http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2278915_sen10.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/2278915/sen10.jpg.html)

https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

Their History



The Sarmatians comprised a number of groups of nomads who roamed, generally in a westward direction, over the western portion of the Eurasian steppes. They were related culturally and, in all likelihood, ethnically to the Scythians and both spoke Iranian languages that appear to have been quite similar.

The first traces of the Sarmatians are archeological. They date from the seventh century BCE and come from an area east of the Don, or Tanais, River, south of the Ural Mountains and north of the Caspian Sea. Findings seem to be concentrated along the courses of the Ural and lower Volga rivers and constitute an archeological culture that extends up to the fourth century BCE and has been linked with certainty to the Sauromatae of the Greek sources.

These Sauromatae represent the first appearance of the Sarmatian peoples in western sources and the adaptation, or corruption, of their name into Greek and, later, Latin has given us our current name of Sarmatians. The name Sauromatae appears to be clearly of Iranian origin and seems to have meant 'black mantles' (*sau-roma-ta, where sau = black, roma = fur and -ta is the plural marker). Other etymologies have been suggested, but this seems the most likely as Herodotus, who first spoke of the Sauromatae and located them east of the Scythian domains, also recorded the Melanchlainos (Greek for 'black capes') to the northeast of the Scythians. Also, a decree from the Greek city of Olbia, on the northern coast of the Black Sea near the mouth of the Dnieper River, from the early second century BCE mentions the Saudarates (*sau-dâra-ta = wearers of black) among several neighboring barbarian tribes.

We have adopted 'Sauromatae' as the faction’s name in EB, as it is a designation in either the Sarmatian language or one very close, and we do not know with certainty how the Sarmatians called themselves. In this account, however, we will use the name Sauromatae in a restricted sense to refer to the peoples corresponding to the archeological culture of the seventh to fourth centuries BCE. It seems plausible that the Sarmatians might have referred to themselves with their own variation of the ancient auto-ethnonym 'Arya,' attested from very old times and widespread among the Indo-Iranian peoples (Avestan Airyô, Sanskrit Âryas, Old Persian Ariyâ). For example, Pliny speaks of the 'Arraei Sarmatians, also called Areatas' (*Arya-ta). With dialectal labdacism (the evolution of the group 'ry' to 'l'), 'Arya' also appears in the name of the Alans (Alana < *Aryana) and of the Roxolani Sarmatians (*Rôxš-Alan < **Rauxša-Aryana = white, bright or luminous Alans).

However, we do not know to what extent this applies to all the other Sarmatian groups. The names history has preserved for them (Aorsi, Iazyges, Siracae, Urgi, Sai, etc.), while often clearly of Iranian origin, do not seem related to 'Arya,' although those designations may not be the names they used for themselves. Consequently, we have opted for Sauromatae.

Herodotus, reporting events of the late sixth century BCE, reports the Sauromatae to be the eastern neighbors of the Scythians and their allies against the invading Achaemenid Persians and has them living on the left, i.e. eastern, bank of the Don and beyond. He also explained that the Sauromatae were the descendants of Scythian young men who took runaway Amazons as wives and settled in the lands between the Don and the lower Volga, an area which is one of the hot spots of the archeological Sauromatian culture. Herodotus also ascribes the role played by women in Sauromatian society to this Amazonian inheritance: he describes Sauromatae women riding, hunting, and fighting alongside the men. Archeology has also provided some support for these claims by turning up substantial numbers of graves of females, both Sauromatian and of later cultural stages of the Sarmatian peoples, containing weaponry. Also, skeletons of girls aged thirteen to fourteen already showed bowed legs, indicative of a life spent on horseback.

Sometime during the fourth century BCE, the Sarmatians started expanding, mostly westwards. This was accompanied by changes in the archeological culture, such as details of funerary rites, pottery, weaponry (swords with straight guards and antennae pommels, instead of the akinakes-like angled guards of the Sauromatian phase), to what is commonly called ancient Sarmatian or Prokhorovka culture, which would last up to the first century BCE. By the second half of the fourth century BCE, the pseudo-Scylax, a Greek source, still speaks of the Sauromatae east of the Don but also knows about the Syrmatae west of that river. Already by the century’s end, Sarmatian tombs are found on the eastern bank of the Dnieper, and in the third and second centuries they become numerous there. In the late third or very early second century BCE, the Sarmatians may have crossed west beyond the Dnieper, as attested by at least one Sarmatian grave on its right, i.e. west, bank dating from that period. It is certain that, during the second century BCE, the Sarmatians completed their occupation of almost all the steppe between the Dnieper and the Danube, the last remnants of what was once ancient Scythia.

Since the early second century BCE, Sarmatian groups also appear diversely involved in the affairs of the BosporanKingdom and the Greek cities on the northern coast of the Black Sea. Sarmatians sometimes even extorted tribute from the cities. On other occasions, they would ally with a Greek city against the Late Scythians, now relegated to the eastern half of the CrimeanPeninsula and the lower Dnieper, though they could also side with the Late Scythians in their constant conflicts with the Greek cities. Thus, in 110 BCE, Mithridates VI Eupator, king of Pontos, sent his general Diophantes to aid of the city of Chersonesos against a coalition of Sarmatians and Scythians. Diophantes was victorious and Mithridates gained a foothold on the northern coast of the Black Sea. Eventually, those events would lead to Mithridates gaining control of that whole area, the BosporanKingdom included, and to continued Sarmatian support for the Pontic Kingdom in its conflicts against Rome up to the defeat of Pharnaces I, Mithridates’ son, at Zela by Julius Caesar.

Sarmatian expansion up to the second century CE occurred largely at the expense of the formerly powerful Scythians, the previous masters of the Pontic steppe between the Don and the Danube. Diodorus Siculus, writing many years after the events, stated that the Scythians were all exterminated in the course of numerous battles, but archeological data do not support such a claim. To what extent Scythian replacement by the Sarmatians involved displacement, annihilation, and assimilation is far from clear, however. It seems well established that all three processes, which are not mutually exclusive, occurred, but their relative importance is by no means evident.

This expansion occurred mostly, though not exclusively, westward. For example, some Sarmatian groups moved southwest from the Volga area into Ciscaucasia, occupying the steppes between and directly beside the Kuban and Terek rivers. Archeology shows they were already present in the area between the Don, the Sea of Azov, and the Kuban river in the fourth century BCE. The Siracae Sarmatians would later be placed in that area by Greek and Roman sources. It has been in this southern appendix of the great Pontic steppe where, through the Medieval Alans of the Caucasus, some descendants of the Sarmatians, the modern Ossetians, have remained.

There are also traces of Sarmatian presence in Central Asia. For example, numerous findings from the Ustyurt Plateau, between the Caspian and AralSeas, are stylistically very close to the Sauromatian and Prokhorovka cultures. Also, nomad graves from near Bukhara in modern Uzbekistan, dating to the end of the fourth or early third century BCE, show Sarmatian traits. Finally, swords closely similar to the Prokhorovka type have shown up in ancient Bactria in contexts dated to the second to first century BCE.

It is not clear what set the Sarmatians in motion, and a variety of causes have been advanced: climate changes (a persistent drought affecting areas of the steppe is hinted at by a lower level of the Caspian Sea during the third century BCE), increases in Sarmatian population, or events in Central Asia, such as Alexander’s campaigns and the rise of the Xiongnu, eliciting a sort of chain reaction. However, none of those seems to offer a perfect, all-encompassing explanation. All may have contributed, but, again, it is unknown to what extent.

After their occupation of old Scythia, the Sarmatians kept expanding west and, therefore, would eventually come into contact with Rome. The Iazyges hugged the Black Sea coast and moved on to the lower Danube. Here they seem to have been stopped for a while by the powerful Dacian kingdom of Burebista, and from there, in 16 BCE, they launched their first incursion into Roman territory in Macedonia. Sarmatian raids across the Danube like this would plague the Romans for the next three hundred years. When Dacian power diminished, the Iazyges moved northwest to eventually settle in the plain between the Danube and Tisza rivers where, now often in conjunction with Germanic tribes, they kept being a thorn in the side of Rome, despite brief stints as Roman allies, even after their defeat by Emperor Marcus Aurelius in his Sarmatian War in 174 CE. As part of the peace conditions imposed upon them, the Iazyges had to provide the Roman army with eight thousand cavalrymen. Nonetheless, in 184 and during the whole third century CE Roman Emperors had to keep campaigning against them.

When the Iazyges left the lower Danube, the Roxolani, who had remained between the Danube and the Dnieper, moved into this area and took up the raiding of the Roman provinces across the river. During the first of Emperor Trajan’s Dacian Wars, the Roxolani were allied with the Dacians against the Romans. Again, their defeat would not preclude their resuming raiding, and Roman money subsidies proved a more effective way to keep the peace along the frontier.

During the third and fourth centuries CE, Sarmatian power suffered greatly from the arrival of, first, the Goths and other eastern Germans and, later, of the Huns into Sarmatian dominions. The Sarmatians and Alans, either a Sarmatian group or very close relatives, became less and less independent peoples and masters of their own destiny and more and more part of confederations ruled by other nations. The wanderings of those leagues and the tumults of the time of the Great Migrations would carry Sarmatians and Alans as far as the Iberian Peninsula and northern Africa. There, like in their original homelands, they would eventually vanish, assimilated into more powerful nations, but not without having added their contribution to what would become medieval Europe.


Sarmatian Warfare

Sarmatians are remembered as mounted warriors. In particular, the most common image of them that has come down to us is of armored lancers whose charge was nearly irresistible. Nonetheless, the lancer can be considered a relatively late development of the Sarmatian military. For much of their history, and certainly for most of that history that is within EB, Sarmatian armies, like those of so many steppe nomads before and after them, were mostly composed of horse archers. Even after the lancer had appeared and risen to prominence, mounted archery appears to have remained an integral and important component of Sarmatian tactics, with even the lancers themselves carrying a bow besides their long contus sarmaticus and longswords. Similarly, finds of armor from the Sauromatian period show that the earliest Sarmatian armies already had a core of heavy cavalry which was provided by the upper classes able to afford protective gear for themselves and, sometimes, even their horses. This structure with a nucleus of heavier, aristocratic cavalry better prepared for melee surrounded by swarms of light horse archers is common to many steppe armies.

This switch towards a more direct approach needs to be correctly understood, as the battle descriptions found in the sources show that it remained firmly within the steppe traditions of mounted warfare. The sources speak abundantly of the powerful charge of the contus-wielding Sarmatians. However, those same sources also indicate that, despite outward appearances, those were not mad, potentially suicidal, actions. If faced with a solid battle line, a firm wall of spears held by men resolved to stand their ground, the seemingly wild charge would turn into an apparently equally wild retreat. Of course, more often than not, it was a feigned retreat, a maneuver no less controlled than the previous charge and designed to lure an enemy into a pursuit that had good chances to throw its formation into disorder, prevent units from providing mutual support, and that would open up chances for such maneuvers as outflanking and charges to the rear for the Sarmatians.

The shift from a harass and evade doctrine towards greater emphasis on hand-to-hand combat and shock action is not easy to date precisely. Of course, it could well have been a fairly gradual process that occurred over a substantial amount of time. Written sources suggest that the transition had not happened yet in the late second century BCE, at least in the area around the AzovSea, but that it was completed by the first decades of the first century CE. The Sarmatians that fought against the Pontic general Diophantes in the Crimea in 110 BCE are described as lightly armed and unable to stand their ground against heavier troops. In contrast, by 35 CE we find the Sarmatians eschewing mounted archery contests and instead charging headlong into Parthian cavalry. By 69 CE, the Romans dealing with Roxolani raids already have it as an established fact that their charges are very dangerous and nearly unstoppable.

Archeology provides some additional pointers on when the switch occurred. The kit of the armored lancer, consisting of scale armor, large spearhead and longsword, begins to appear in Sarmatian graves in the Volga region in the third and second centuries BCE. The troop type might have been copied from the neighboring Massagetae and Sakas. Those peoples had a tradition of armored cavalry dating back to the fifth century BCE and beyond, and Alexander’s campaigns presumably put them into contact with Macedonian Companion cavalry that were able and willing to charge home with their xysta. A terracotta from Koï-Krylgan-Kala in Uzbekistan of the fourth or early third centuries BCE shows an apparently unarmored lancer wielding a long lance and another from Khumbuz-Tepe shows an armored one on an equally protected horse. In any case, it seems clear that there were armored lancers in Transoxiana in the third century BCE and that the troop type spread from there.


Sword, Fire and Sun: Sarmatian Religion

Evidence about the religion of the Sarmatians is extremely scarce and heterogeneous. No ancient ethnographer or historian recorded the names or number of their deities or wrote down their myths. We are, therefore, left to deal with occasional allusions in the sources, archeological material, and inferences from other, presumably related, religious systems and from archaic elements in the folk religion of the modern Ossetians. Moreover, it is likely that religion varied among Sarmatian groups and along time.

One of the few certainties in this matter is that the Sarmatians worshipped a god of war on whose name, as in the case of its Scythian cognate, there seems to have been a prohibition to be spoken aloud. Again as in the Scythian case, it was represented by a naked sword thrust into the ground and received offerings of blood as part of its cult. Generally, that cult does not seem to have entailed temples or a distinct priest class, the lack of which is a general feature of Sarmatian religious practices.

Greek sources from the third century BCE claim that the Sarmatians also adored the Fire. There is archeological support for this in the importance of the Fire in Sarmatian funerary rites. Further backing comes from the importance that the Fire has retained in the cult of the Medieval Caucasian Alans and the modern Ossetians. Also, Tabiti, the main Scythian deity, whom their king Idanthyrsus called queen of the Scythians, seems to have been a goddess of the hearth, as Herodotus likened her to Hestia. It seems likely that, as with other Iranian peoples, the Fire was a purifier for the Sarmatians because the Ossetian word for pure, saint' is sygdag, which comes from an Iranian root with the sense 'burn'.

Possibly related to the cult of the Fire, there seems to have been a cult of the Sun as well. Herodotus and Strabo register such a practice for the Massagetae and Armenian sources record it among the Medieval Alans of the Caucasus. Among the modern Ossetian descendants of the latter, the fire of the hearth is called 'son of the Sun,' pointing to the link between fire and sun cults.


The Sarmatian Legacy

It often seems that the nomadic peoples of the steppe have contributed little, if at all, to the making of contemporaneous western culture. However, the Sarmatians probably are at the root of the well-known and influential cultural icon that is the medieval knight. A knight is in essence a mounted, armored lancer and the Sarmatians can rightly claim to be its first physical model in Europe. After centuries of contact, the mounted lancer was widely adopted from the Sarmatians by both the Late Roman Empire and the Germanic tribes who would eventually overrun it. Medieval Europe, knights included, would emerge from the mixture of these elements.

Moreover, another popular element of western culture may owe more to the Sarmatians and the steppe nomads than usually realized. The Arthurian legend incorporates many diverse influences, being in that representative of medieval Europe. One of those elements, perhaps its core, may directly link the Arthurian stories to the nomads of the steppe. We have already mentioned that in 175 CE the defeated Iazyges had to supply eight thousand horsemen to the Roman army. Of those, five and a half thousand were sent to Britain, and we know some were sent to garrison the western portion of Hadrian’s Wall. The Roman officer who commanded part of the Sarmatian contingent was called Lucius Artorius Castus. Moreover, in 180 to 185 CE the Caledonii, with support from the Goidilic Irish, overran the eastern part of the Wall and penetrated deeply into Roman territory, killing the governor of Britain and the legate of Legio VI Victrix near modern York and ravaging the eastern regions. However, the region where Artorius Castus and his Sarmatians were posted was spared and remained a safe island amidst much destruction. We, then, have a group of armored horsemen who revere a naked sword thrust into the earth and who, led by a man called Artorius, manage to repel or contain a barbarian invasion. It would seem plausible that these events could have provided an initial nucleus that, over the course of the following centuries, would have attracted other, later traditions and cycles to produce the Arthurian tradition as we know it today. The iconic and archetypical Arthurian story might have been woven around a core in which the horsemen from the Eurasian steppe, their modes of waging war, and their religious traditions played a leading role.


https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png

Signature Banner




Show your support for Europa Barbarorum in style with this new signature banner, featuring the mighty Sauromatae! Courtesy of Gustave.


https://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1333/signsauromatae.jpg

https://a.imagehost.org/0157/f_g0i594tm_5081fbcc.png




We hope you have enjoyed this preview of the Sauromatae faction in Europa Barbarorum II.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

A special thanks to Tux and JMRC for their excellent models and renders, Gustave for his wonderful unit skins and artwork, to Foot and Bozos for the implementation of the strategy map models in game, and to Steppe Merc, Paullus and The Persian Cataphract for the historical info and text work.

-Praetor-
11-10-2009, 00:32
We are also proud to reveal one of the new "Occultus" factions of Europa Barbarorum II. Thanks to the incredible detective work of bobbin, who pieced together clues from other mods to come to the right answer.


https://a.imagehost.org/0585/bosporan.jpg

And so, in Europa Barbarorum II you will have the opportunity of playing as the Kimmerios Bosporos, or the Bosporan Kingdom. Sitting on the northern shores of the Black Sea, this Greek Kingdom managed to successfully marry the cultures of the steppe people with the sedentary civilisation of the Hellenes. As the Bosporans you will be able to call upon both the powerful infantry of the Hellenes and the swift and deadly cavalry of the Sauromatae and other tribes of horsemen of the Steppe.

We look forward to previewing more of this faction in the near future, but in the meantime, we give you the full faction symbol of the Kimmerios Bosporos.



https://i.imagehost.org/0908/Image2.png (https://h.imagehost.org/view/0921/bosp_hoplitai)


Look out for more news about this faction in the near future.

Have a great day!






Regards,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

Sarkiss
11-10-2009, 00:33
great as always!

thanks!

Phalanx300
11-10-2009, 00:54
Wow a great preview! But for me the best part definately was to see the Bosphorans as an new faction! :2thumbsup: Also a bit because I dislike horse-archers the most but yeah kuddos to bobbin for correctly decoding the Occultus!

Eastern Foot-Rocker
11-10-2009, 01:03
It's amazing! The settlement icons look filigreed, not like in SS 6.2. I can't wait to play the first time! The Gaza Campaign!!!

Folgore
11-10-2009, 01:05
Awesome update.

I can already see those horsearchers shooting their arrows at my troops while they run their little legs off trying to catch them, but never get any closer. :(

burn_again
11-10-2009, 01:06
Great work on the units, they're beautiful.
Good to know the Bosphororian Kingdom is in, though I was kind of expecting it.
Also the city models are looking great. Will nomads now be able to build huge cities in EB2?

retep219
11-10-2009, 01:29
Great work on the units, they're beautiful.
Good to know the Bosphororian Kingdom is in, though I was kind of expecting it.
Also the city models are looking great. Will nomads now be able to build huge cities in EB2?

It seems so...it is even possible to restrict that? As far as I know, no other mod has restricted city growth, though I do not know if that means that they can't or won't.

burn_again
11-10-2009, 01:32
It seems so...it is even possible to restrict that? As far as I know, no other mod has restricted city growth, though I do not know if that means that they can't or won't.

In EB 1 nomads coud not build large and huge cities and barbarians could not build huge cities.

I have no idea how it is in other M2TW-mods, I have not bought M2TW yet (as EB2 isn't out yet).

Tux
11-10-2009, 01:34
It seems so...it is even possible to restrict that? As far as I know, no other mod has restricted city growth, though I do not know if that means that they can't or won't.
Well you can restrict the visual appearance of them as for gameplay I don't know, probably there's something possible by scripting.

seienchin
11-10-2009, 01:38
Really nice units :2thumbsup:
I esspecialy like the nobel one with the greek helmet. :egypt:
Did the sarmatians in 300bc used saddles? If so, I hope they get a huge atack bonus. :smash:

a completely inoffensive name
11-10-2009, 01:43
TEN THOUSAND INTERNET POINTS FOR BOBBIN!

darius_d
11-10-2009, 01:50
wow, it's great!
nice to see things are well accelerating.:2thumbsup:

Belisarius II
11-10-2009, 02:45
2 in 1 deal, eh? And to think of those who laughed at bobbin for his "foolishness" at trying to guess on the Bospohoran Kingdom.

bobbin
11-10-2009, 02:53
We are also proud to reveal one of the new "Occultus" factions of Europa Barbarorum II. Thanks to the incredible detective work of bobbin, who pieced together clues from other mods to come to the right answer.

And so, in Europa Barbarorum II you will have the opportunity of playing as the Kimmerios Bosporos, or the Bosporan Kingdom. Sitting on the northern shores of the Black Sea, this Greek Kingdom managed to successfully marry the cultures of the steppe people with the sedentary civilisation of the Hellenes. As the Bosporans you will be able to call upon both the powerful infantry of the Hellenes and the swift and deadly cavalry of the Sauromatae and other tribes of horsemen of the Steppe.
Oh snap! excellent news:beam:


I'm really loving the look of the Ragon Sauromatae Uaezdaettae, can't wait to use them. Keep up the good work:2thumbsup:

Julianus
11-10-2009, 02:53
Great news indeed.
Kimmerios Bosporos sounds especially exciting, I am always dreaming of leading a huge phalanx army supported by HAs.

A Very Super Market
11-10-2009, 03:17
Beauty!

That was a rather short delay in between previews. Hmmmm, we must ponder....

J.R.M
11-10-2009, 03:27
A great day indeed. :2thumbsup:

Great job as always, cannot wait for Bosporan kigdom preview!

Megas Methuselah
11-10-2009, 07:40
WOW WOW WOW. :jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping: :jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping:

-sKy-
11-10-2009, 08:39
Very nice, but the heads of the horses look pretty edged and unnatural

Owen Glyndwr
11-10-2009, 09:16
How very exciting!

Congratulations bobbin, very good spot, that.

Taliferno
11-10-2009, 09:55
These look great, can't wait to sack the cities of the Bospharans with my Sauromatae hoards.

Genava
11-10-2009, 10:50
Great EB Team!
Bravo!
Grandissimo!
Wunderbar!

Jurdagat
11-10-2009, 10:59
Amazing work! :)

zooeyglass
11-10-2009, 12:46
Great, great preview, and looking marvellous. Thank you EB team, and I hope the work continues well!

anubis88
11-10-2009, 12:53
Indeed it's great to see this kind of progress... The sarmatians really look great... Not to mention The Bosporans as faction:dizzy2::beam:

Tux
11-10-2009, 12:56
Very nice, but the heads of the horses look pretty edged and unnatural
It's a strategy game.~:) So they don't have too many polys since it's not worth and if I'm correct those are the vanilla horses with some changes to the saddle and small changes like that.

We have time to improve them in the future but for now we're focusing on more important things.

The General
11-10-2009, 13:22
Very nice preview, the units look great! The settlements/camps look great.

And even if it wasn't a huge surprise, it's nice to get the Bosphoran Kingdom speculations confirmed. It'll be nice to have a western (...relatively) counterpart to Baktria, and with more of a Greek than Makedonian flavour to its hellenic unit roster, I presume.

All in all, a great preview. :2thumbsup:

Horatius Flaccus
11-10-2009, 13:59
Great preview!

And good work Bobbin, now it's confirmed.

Bucefalo
11-10-2009, 14:09
I was not tuned enough for this... :beam: Thanks EB team!

antisocialmunky
11-10-2009, 14:27
Epic 2 fer. :-D

Just wondering if the couched lance is the animation though.

HunGeneral
11-10-2009, 15:46
Sauromatae .... EBII style.... oh yeah... (drools like crazy:dizzy2:)

Great preview - I'm going to buy MedII tomorrow - now I have an extra reason why I think its worth it... and another one to wait more anxiously for EBII

Great work as always people! Al hail the EB team!:2thumbsup:

anubis88
11-10-2009, 16:05
I'm also delighted by the fact that the previews are now coming at a much faster rate... That's a very good sign indeed:2thumbsup:

Morte66
11-10-2009, 16:33
And so, in Europa Barbarorum II you will have the opportunity of playing as the Kimmerios Bosporos, or the Bosporan Kingdom.

Woohoo!

I am so glad to hear this. Whilst I appreciate that you guys on the team pick factions mainly on historical grounds, as a gamer I like factions that are fun to play. So the KB with their unusual military (hoplites, heavy archers, horse archers, lance cavalry etc) and their variegated mix of local enemies (Getai, Sauromatae, Hai, Pontos etc) are something of a dream faction for me. There's nothing else quite like them. I even faked them in EB1 by migrating the KH to Pantikapaion with cheat codes, and had a good time playing them.

Cool. :)

-sKy-
11-10-2009, 17:19
It's a strategy game.~:) So they don't have too many polys since it's not worth and if I'm correct those are the vanilla horses with some changes to the saddle and small changes like that.

We have time to improve them in the future but for now we're focusing on more important things.

I think it IS important. Look, all the models are wonderful, pretty skinned, etc. Just the Horse Heads are chunky and edgy. Thats all.

Skullheadhq
11-10-2009, 17:33
Nice!
So bobbin was right after all, good work!

WinsingtonIII
11-10-2009, 17:51
I had a feeling bobbin was right... but it's nice to know for sure! The Bosporan Kingdom was a faction that I was really hoping made the cut.

The Sauromatae look wonderful as well! You guys have all done a great job. The details on some of those quivers and saddles are awesome!

Tux
11-10-2009, 17:58
I think it IS important. Look, all the models are wonderful, pretty skinned, etc. Just the Horse Heads are chunky and edgy. Thats all.
Like I said for now that's not a priority, getting done units is. So don't consider we won't improve that in the future just because I said it isn't important, for NOW. The deal is you improve the horse model/skin for a unit you improve it for all.

Bucefalo
11-10-2009, 18:27
I'm also delighted by the fact that the previews are now coming at a much faster rate... That's a very good sign indeed:2thumbsup:

Not to rain on your parade, but i fear this is not the case. The team just shows the previews when they are ready, we´ve just been lucky that it was very close to the last one.

Also i agree with the decision of the team of not doing everything for the first release, only the most important, many things (like the horses) can be improved later. This way EB II will release quicker:yes:

Skullheadhq
11-10-2009, 18:29
Not to rain on your parade, but i fear this is not the case. The team just shows the previews when they are ready, we´ve just been lucky that it was very close to the last one.

Also i agree with the decision of the team of not doing everything for the first release, only the most important, many things (like the horses) can be improved later. This way EB II will release quicker:yes:

So true, it can't possibly be perfect at the first release.
Chunky horse heads shouldn't shouldn't be top priority :laugh4:

Cute Wolf
11-10-2009, 20:25
Wowowowowoooooouuuuuuuuu!!!!!! Finally, the Sauro... the Steppe Wolf was revealed..!!!! :party2: :party: :pokemon:

Woooonnnnndddeeeeerrrrfffffuuuuuulllllllllllll!!!! Aaawwwweeeessssoooommmmeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

Great Job, no.... very great great great job EB II team! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :smash:

Gustave
11-10-2009, 20:44
thanks for your comments !
About the horses, I doubt we will work on them on a near future. There are just too many more important things to work on.

DaciaJC
11-10-2009, 21:29
Marvelous work, EB Team! Superb, indeed.

Banzai!
11-10-2009, 22:12
Possible horses EB could look at using - note cataphracts and half-cataphracts

https://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2917/004jq0.jpg

The General
11-10-2009, 22:16
Horses:

... Huh? Horses, yes, but with medieval clothes/armour/ornaments. Is EB team supposed to just steal these models? Are they from a mod or vanilla*?


* I've really played M2TW vanilla that little.

Genava
11-10-2009, 22:16
It's the mod Rusichi ^^ The horses are beautiful.

Banzai!
11-10-2009, 22:23
... Huh? Horses, yes, but with medieval clothes/armour/ornaments. Is EB team supposed to just steal these models? Are they from a mod or vanilla*?


* I've really played M2TW vanilla that little.

Rusichi like people using their stuff.

Apázlinemjó
11-10-2009, 22:41
Bosporan Kingdom!? Oh man, I will overuse a few PCs and laptops before I will bore EB2.

Gustave
11-10-2009, 23:09
Banzai, could you at least put some spoiler tags on your pictures ?

BerkeleyBoi
11-11-2009, 08:38
Great preview! And now I really want to play as the Bosporians...

Subedei
11-11-2009, 10:43
cant´t wait, can´t wait....Great preview...plus the Bosporan Kingdom...I think i played them in "Roma Surrectum" (correct me if i am wrong). They are good fun plus a threshold for my Nomadic HORDES invading civilized Europe! Hurray to the EB TEAM! :smash:

Cartaphilus
11-11-2009, 13:02
Awesome preview!!!
I never played Sauromatae in EB, but now I'm eager to play them in EB2.:beam:

Meneldil
11-11-2009, 15:08
Awesome to learn the Bosphoran Kingdom is in. :2thumbsup:

Scipio Germanicus
11-11-2009, 15:22
Well I'm not much for the nomadic factions, but I'm psyched for the Bosphorans. :beam:

SwissBarbar
11-11-2009, 15:38
Simply crazy :2thumbsup: Can't wait for EBII

Leão magno
11-11-2009, 17:43
Richly detailed graphics!!!! I am hopping EBII comes out soon!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macilrille
11-12-2009, 11:36
Bosphoran Kingdom confirmed :2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

Nice review, I am not too keen on nomads myself. But good review and...


Very nice progress!!!

I cannot wait for the Swêboz.

Fluvius Camillus
11-12-2009, 15:38
It all looks awesome, great units.

Good job detective Bobbin!:2thumbsup:

~Fluvius

Phalanx300
11-12-2009, 19:26
Also guys for those who haven't found out yet, if you press the Bosphoran faction symbol you get linked to a big picture of the Bosporan Hoplites.

Foot
11-12-2009, 22:32
Also guys for those who haven't found out yet, if you press the Bosphoran faction symbol you get linked to a big picture of the Bosporan Hoplites.

I wondered when someone would mention this. Always keep an eye for these little hidden delights in our previews.

Foot

Sarkiss
11-13-2009, 11:57
Also guys for those who haven't found out yet, if you press the Bosphoran faction symbol you get linked to a big picture of the Bosporan Hoplites.

doh, thanks.

btw, what of Sarmatian faction symbol? still undecided?

Banzai, thanks for the horses. the most beautiful horses there is! would be awesome to see them in EB.

Tretii
11-13-2009, 12:03
Beautiful, just beautiful.
Keep up the great work lads.

Iraklis
11-13-2009, 12:12
i am trying to find a word in either Greek or English to describe how i feel about this great preview, but i dont think there is one good enough for that ^^

All i can say is that the EB team are not good, they are Gods! :2thumbsup:

Foot
11-13-2009, 12:33
doh, thanks.

btw, what of Sarmatian faction symbol? still undecided?

Banzai, thanks for the horses. the most beautiful horses there is! would be awesome to see them in EB.

Unfortunately we no longer have a large version of the Sauromatae faction symbol. This isn't so much of a problem as we have all the correct sizes for the game itself. We may decide in the future to recreate the Sauromatae faction symbol, so we can have the big size again, but unless a request is made by one of our historians it will look the same as it did in EBI.

Foot

Subotan
11-13-2009, 14:47
Oh man, this is awesome, how did I miss this? Great work as always, guys. I'm particularly looking forward to the Bosphoran Kigndom update :beam:

However, if I was to be perfectly honest, I don't like the blonde hair of the Sarmatians. It's too...yellow. Sorry :(

G. Septimus
11-13-2009, 14:50
the thing I'm wondering about is the new factions in EBII, like Pergamom,
can't wait to see them...

Brennus
11-13-2009, 17:46
Commendations for tattoing the nobles, just like the Archaeological evidence.

JMRC
11-13-2009, 18:18
Commendations for tattoing the nobles, just like the Archaeological evidence.
I'm very glad you noticed! Those are the details that we hope will give a greater immersion into the mod.

Azathoth
11-14-2009, 01:03
the thing I'm wondering about is the new factions in EBII, like Pergamom,
can't wait to see them...


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=103202

Horatius Flaccus
11-14-2009, 20:03
I think he means actually playing them...

moonburn
11-16-2009, 00:41
amazing work ^^ expecially considering that it seems its going on full speed soon enough we will have previews every 2 weeks

when can we have a map preview ? preferably with the resources trade routes ports big city´s psf´s mines and all of that so one can start making the winning economical strategies for a massive gaming experience

as for the sauromatae fans i can´t wait to play the cimmerians and shoot you off your horses from the top of the great stone walls, or sail the pontos euxinus and free sinope from the authocratic persian wannabe pontic scum or rape the riches of the hai lands with all their mines

just teasing but amazing work now what about a arevaci preview for the iberian peninsula ?

Owen Glyndwr
11-16-2009, 10:49
Commendations for tattoing the nobles, just like the Archaeological evidence.

I didn't even notice this the first time through. Just goes to show the amazing level of detail I have come to love from the EB team, thanks guys :2thumbsup:

HunGeneral
11-16-2009, 14:20
amazing work ^^ expecially considering that it seems its going on full speed soon enough we will have previews every 2 weeks

That would be really great - previews every two or three weeks, that would make waiting for EBII even longer.


when can we have a map preview ? preferably with the resources trade routes ports big city´s psf´s mines and all of that so one can start making the winning economical strategies for a massive gaming experience

A map preview would be nice aswell - a perfect christmas present:idea2:


as for the sauromatae fans i can´t wait to play the cimmerians and shoot you off your horses from the top of the great stone walls, or sail the pontos euxinus and free sinope from the authocratic persian wannabe pontic scum

Don't worry I feel the same - can't wait to make those greeks, (true) barbaroi and other settled peoples do what most of them are best for: get into the first line and stand there as "arrow-cathcers" ... until the enemy runs out of arrows (and/or slingstones)... (inset evil :laugh4::laugh4:)


or rape the riches of the hai lands with all their mines

And what about there women? There worth fighting for aswell aren't they?

Zradha Pahlavan
11-16-2009, 18:59
Those Bosphoran hoplites stole the show here, but the nobles are pretty cool. Keep the previews coming!

The Fuzz
11-16-2009, 23:20
Wow, amazing preview. Can't wait to play these guys!

podoh
11-17-2009, 17:14
I wonder if somebody of the team could give me some sources/literature on a couple of statements; not out of scepticism, just for further reading



It often seems that the nomadic peoples of the steppe have contributed little, if at all, to the making of contemporaneous western culture. However, the Sarmatians probably are at the root of the well-known and influential cultural icon that is the medieval knight. A knight is in essence a mounted, armored lancer and the Sarmatians can rightly claim to be its first physical model in Europe. After centuries of contact, the mounted lancer was widely adopted from the Sarmatians by both the Late Roman Empire and the Germanic tribes who would eventually overrun it. Medieval Europe, knights included, would emerge from the mixture of these elements.

I would very much like to know some literature about the interactions between the Sarmatians/steppe nomads and the Germanic tribes. Not only the military technology mentioned above, but all interactions between the Germanic tribes and the steppes.



Moreover, another popular element of western culture may owe more to the Sarmatians and the steppe nomads than usually realized. The Arthurian legend incorporates many diverse influences, being in that representative of medieval Europe. One of those elements, perhaps its core, may directly link the Arthurian stories to the nomads of the steppe. We have already mentioned that in 175 CE the defeated Iazyges had to supply eight thousand horsemen to the Roman army. Of those, five and a half thousand were sent to Britain, and we know some were sent to garrison the western portion of Hadrian’s Wall. The Roman officer who commanded part of the Sarmatian contingent was called Lucius Artorius Castus. Moreover, in 180 to 185 CE the Caledonii, with support from the Goidilic Irish, overran the eastern part of the Wall and penetrated deeply into Roman territory, killing the governor of Britain and the legate of Legio VI Victrix near modern York and ravaging the eastern regions. However, the region where Artorius Castus and his Sarmatians were posted was spared and remained a safe island amidst much destruction. We, then, have a group of armored horsemen who revere a naked sword thrust into the earth and who, led by a man called Artorius, manage to repel or contain a barbarian invasion. It would seem plausible that these events could have provided an initial nucleus that, over the course of the following centuries, would have attracted other, later traditions and cycles to produce the Arthurian tradition as we know it today. The iconic and archetypical Arthurian story might have been woven around a core in which the horsemen from the Eurasian steppe, their modes of waging war, and their religious traditions played a leading role.

Also, some literature about this theory would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
(Nice preview, by the way. Can't wait to play.)

moonburn
11-18-2009, 07:12
And what about there women? There worth fighting for aswell aren't they?

if the cimmerian women look like anything like the current ukranian women i guess the cimmerians are more then well served in terms of women to rape (remember the bosphorus was a major platform in the collection of slaves, the skytians and other step people would capture them and sell them in the pontos euxinus expecially the slav human eaters, one must wonder if human flesh eating improves your kids beauty in the long run... empirical evidence says so) :laugh4:

but yes a good hai maid can be good for a change now and then we don´t want to end up like the sweedes and norwegians where tapping blondes can actually get boring :X

Ludens
11-18-2009, 12:21
I would very much like to know some literature about the interactions between the Sarmatians/steppe nomads and the Germanic tribes. Not only the military technology mentioned above, but all interactions between the Germanic tribes and the steppes.

Also, some literature about this theory would be very much appreciated.

I'd like to hear more about that too :yes: . Someone over at the TWC posted a link to a rebuttal (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=6278079#post6278079) of the Sarmatian Arthur hypothesis, but this text is directed at someone making a far stronger claim than the EB team does. Still, I'd like to know more about it.


if the cimmerian women look like anything like the current ukranian women i guess the cimmerians are more then well served in terms of women to rape

:inquisitive:

Alsatia
11-21-2009, 21:36
Beautiful, simply beautiful.

Can't wait for the next one!

podoh
11-24-2009, 15:11
I'd like to hear more about that too :yes: . Someone over at the TWC posted a link to a rebuttal (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=6278079#post6278079) of the Sarmatian Arthur hypothesis, but this text is directed at someone making a far stronger claim than the EB team does. Still, I'd like to know more about it.

This is the original article that's criticized by the author of the link you've posted.
http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/1/halac.htm

Haven't formed an opinion myself yet.

Greenlizard0.
01-11-2011, 07:22
I also stated it on the twcenter site, but perhaps there are people that missed the preview here as wel. This preview is not in the All the Previews In One Thread.

ziegenpeter
01-11-2011, 20:15
WE WANT SEE!
HEAVY SAUROS NOW! :2thumbsup:


Thank you guys for this new Preview. It was pure awe, that I felt when I contemplated the screenshots and the backround texts are as splendid and informative as usual.
I just wonder: Did bobbin present on this forum how he pieced all the clues together, that oneoccultis faction is the Kimmerian Bosporus?

Paltmull
01-12-2011, 01:36
WE WANT SEE!
HEAVY SAUROS NOW! :2thumbsup:


Thank you guys for this new Preview. It was pure awe, that I felt when I contemplated the screenshots and the backround texts are as splendid and informative as usual.
I just wonder: Did bobbin present on this forum how he pieced all the clues together, that oneoccultis faction is the Kimmerian Bosporus?

This preview is 14 months old...


Btw, I don't like criticizing the EB team's work, and I think most units look absolutely stunning, but what's the deal with those haircuts?

i.e. these:
https://i.imagehost.org/0992/p1.jpg

I'm talking about the fringe, which I find a bit odd-looking. It does seem quite unpractical too, since you would have to cut the fringe all the time to keep it out of your eyes. Would the Sauromatae really cut their hair like that, or is it just imaginative?

(isn't that guy a bit too blonde by the way? Compared to his eyebrows and beard, that is)

ziegenpeter
01-12-2011, 03:09
Ouch...

But I actually missed that one, so I am glad it came up again.

EDIT: Well if the fringe is cut above the eyes, it can't do any harm, right?

bobbin
01-12-2011, 10:33
I'm talking about the fringe, which I find a bit odd-looking. It does seem quite unpractical too, since you would have to cut the fringe all the time to keep it out of your eyes. Would the Sauromatae really cut their hair like that, or is it just imaginative?
People manage with fringes today no bother, so I fail to see how it would cause such a problem for someone back then. Anyway one of the Scythian mummies recovered from Pazyryk had a fringe just like that of the unit.

Paltmull
01-13-2011, 20:20
People manage with fringes today no bother, so I fail to see how it would cause such a problem for someone back then. Anyway one of the Scythian mummies recovered from Pazyryk had a fringe just like that of the unit.

Argh, of course you have historical proof. I give up, then :sweatdrop:

Gustave
01-13-2011, 21:29
Yes some people used to have weird haircuts in ancient times. Just look at the libyan skirmishers in the carthaginian preview, for exemple... :beam: