I have a theological question [Archive]

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Prussian to the Iron

11-19-2009, 14:35

Ok, so me and this guy on Youtube are fighting (you've read too far, you must continue to help my stupid Youtube debate!! You're lured!!!) over his ridiculous belief that the Earth is 5,000 years old.

Now, before anyone says anything, I just want to make it clear this is not a debate, I am simply looking for information.

Now, I know the Earth is older than that. Jesus didn't travel the world putting down dinosaur bones and tar pits, and making cataclysmic events seem to have happened.

But this guy just keeps saying "Oh the bible says so!"

So, I would like to know:

Exactly what verse, chapter does it say that the Earth is 5,000 years old in the bible? I have a copy myself (need it for my Jewish sunday school), so I could look it up once I am told where.

Though I am foreseeing no sentence which states that (though I suppose that it would be 3,000 back when it was written, right?) I'd like to be sure. I know it won't sway my beliefs, but if there is nothing that says that, and he cites the bible, than that makes him the dumbass who loses.

Thanks guys!

EDIT: And get this, he's not Republican OR Conservative!!! And he called me a liberal....when I had stated that I was Republican....just to show you how stupid this guy is.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-19-2009, 14:38

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2381703&postcount=71

Subotan

11-19-2009, 14:44

Prussian to the Iron

11-19-2009, 15:11

You could just say that as you are Jewish, and therefore a member of God's chosen people, he has revealed to you the true age of the Earth, but he told you to keep at a secret :3

Also, the Youtube comments section is the stupidest place on the internet, a black hole of ignorance, even taking into account several other places that shall remain nameless.

i know the comments section is just that, but its fun as hell arguing with strangers that dont know what the hell they're talking about.

and thanks, ill do that!

al Roumi

11-19-2009, 15:22

.. its fun as hell arguing with strangers that dont know what the hell they're talking about.

Some times it seems this the only point of the internet. :beam:

Subotan

11-19-2009, 15:33

Some times it seems this the only point of the internet. :beam:

There are others?

and thanks, ill do that!

Now that you're going to do that, you have to show me the effects of what you're going to say.

al Roumi

11-19-2009, 15:39

There are others?

My detailed research indicates 2 possible other existential reasons for the internet (in no particular order):

1. Pornography
2. "Headshot"

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-19-2009, 16:24

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-19-2009, 16:28

Interesting, Rhy and I have been arguing so long we've started paraphrasing each other.

Strike For The South

11-19-2009, 16:32

The bible says so.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-19-2009, 16:32

The bible says so.

No, it really doesn't. :beam:

Strike For The South

11-19-2009, 16:40

No, it really doesn't. :beam:

I have my KJV in my room. I can go get it!

The world is 6000 years old, gay people are icky, capitalism is WWJD, Xenophobia is a good thing, and reach out to your fellow man only if agrees with you.

It's all there.

Prussian to the Iron

11-19-2009, 16:41

No, it really doesn't. :beam:

you gotta cut him some slack though, remember (SFTS dont read this) he's texan :laugh4:

than again im souther californian, so i should believe boob-jobs and plastic surgery are gods :laugh4:

maybe that post went a little far...:sweatdrop:

Aemilius Paulus

11-19-2009, 16:55

Also, the Youtube comments section is the stupidest place on the internet, a black hole of ignorance, even taking into account several other places that shall remain nameless.
Yeah, seriously, 4chan looks like a gathering place of upper-crust academics or the Royal Society in comparison to YouTube... :skull: To debate there is more pointless than... I am at loss of words.

I would simply ignore the bloke, PI - not like anything will change :shrug:

EDIT: And get this, he's not Republican OR Conservative!!! And he called me a liberal....when I had stated that I was Republican....just to show you how stupid this guy is.
Seriously, if he is that stupid and reactionary, then ignore him. Debating with a Young-Earth, KentHovind/KenHam creationist is more pointless than debating with any other group I know of. I learned this from my personal experience. Believe me, I live in the South :thumbsdown:. But you will learn this too, Prussian Iron.

We all have to, on our own. I debated, like you, in RL, few years ago, with Young-Earth creationists. And I quickly came to understand that few groups are more close-minded. Not that most humans are better... Everyone stick to their beliefs - but they do it more than most Neo-Nazis I know :help:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-19-2009, 16:56

I have my KJV in my room. I can go get it!

The world is 6000 years old, gay people are icky, capitalism is WWJD, Xenophobia is a good thing, and reach out to your fellow man only if agrees with you.

It's all there.

Yeah... the dates are only in the later re-reprints.

Strike For The South

11-19-2009, 16:59

Yeah... the dates are only in the later re-reprints.

https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6786/bforlmente.jpg

Prussian to the Iron

11-19-2009, 17:03

I have my KJV in my room. I can go get it!

The world is 6000 years old, gay people are icky, capitalism is WWJD, Xenophobia is a good thing, and reach out to your fellow man only if agrees with you.

It's all there.

i cant help but think hes just screwin witcha Phillipvs. i dont think hed say gay people are icky and the rest. :laugh4:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-19-2009, 17:05

i cant help but think hes just screwin witcha Phillipvs. i dont think hed say gay people are icky and the rest. :laugh4:

:yes: Note the ":beam:"

Cronos Impera

11-19-2009, 18:43

You tell me Mother Gaia is old. How impolite, you never ask a lady her true age. Mother Gaia is always 5000 years old. Look, she has the cosmetics bill to confirm that.

Ironside

11-19-2009, 20:08

The Genesis (first part of the bible) contains a timeline from Adam and forward, which put the flood 1429 years after the creation of earth. Going with the literal interpretation of course.

It goes down to Moses IIRC but gets more annoying to keep track on the exact years fairly soon after the flood.

Abraham is born 292 years after the flood. Stopped counting because it's get really hard to keep track, but Moses should be something like 200 years later.

There's multiple bible versions on the net nowadays.

Slam on historical sources (aka written sources) and if they counter with thier total age, point out that the tower of Babel is post flood and none seems to have noticed the flood (that wiped out 99.999% of the human population or something) in historical time...

Can be worth noticing that Noah's grandfather died the same year of the flood and that Noah doesn't seem to have cared one bit about the drowning of his brothers and sisters. :juggle2:

Subotan

11-19-2009, 20:18

Yeah, seriously, 4chan looks like a gathering place of upper-crust academics or the Royal Society in comparison to YouTube... :skull: To debate there is more pointless than... I am at loss of words.
4chan can generally be described as smart people doing stupid things (Although that's not always true), Digg is stupid people doing smart things (Bloody Lolbertarians) but Youtube is definitely stupid people doing stupid things. (And the Orgah is generally smart people doing smart things :beam:).

I would simply ignore the bloke, PI - not like anything will change :shrug:

I have only ever managed to convince someone to my point of view via debate over the internet, as I convinced a Ron Paul supporter of the existence of something called society virtues, and of the virtues of social democracy, on /b/, funnily enough.

But yeah, I would probably give you a medal if you managed to not only engage in serious debate on Youtube, but to make this guy repent his YEC sincerely. It's actually impossible.

Seriously, if he is that stupid and reactionary, then ignore him. Debating with a Young-Earth, KentHovind/KenHam creationist is more pointless than debating with any other group I know of. I learned this from my personal experience. Believe me, I live in the South .
I dunno, trolling can be pretty fun, especially on Youtube. Remember that game Meth invented?

We all have to, on our own. I debated, like you, in RL, few years ago, with Young-Earth creationists. And I quickly came to understand that few groups are more close-minded. Not that most humans are better... Everyone stick to their beliefs - but they do it more than most Neo-Nazis I know
The weirdest scenarios are when they try to be scientific in order to give legitimacy to their arguments, and yet completely fail in every regard.

My detailed research indicates 2 possible other existential reasons for the internet (in no particular order):

1. Pornography
2. "Headshot"
Hmm, interesting, I must explore the concept of "Headshot Pornography" further.

Ronin

11-19-2009, 20:27

Hmm, interesting, I must explore the concept of "Headshot Pornography" further.

Anyone who has seen a porno movie should be able to grasp that concept quite quickly.

:laugh4:

Subotan

11-19-2009, 22:53

Btw you totally need to post the link where this debate is happening.

miotas

11-19-2009, 23:31

I have my KJV in my room. I can go get it!

The world is 6000 years old, gay people are icky, capitalism is WWJD, Xenophobia is a good thing, and reach out to your fellow man only if agrees with you.

It's all there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08#t=42s :smash: (language warning)

A Very Super Market

11-20-2009, 00:54

Gee, maybe he's a trooooolllllll?

Oh my gooooooooooooooooooood

Seriously, making up a silly argument and repeating the same phrase is easy to do. You bit. This isn't an argument, this is just you biting hard and refusing to let go. For all you know, he's a professor of biology at Stanford with too much free time.

miotas

11-20-2009, 01:12

More likely a psychology professor I reckon.

Prussian to the Iron

11-20-2009, 02:16

4
Hmm, interesting, I must explore the concept of "Headshot Pornography" further.

Anyone who has seen a porno movie should be able to grasp that concept quite quickly.

:laugh4:

yeah, nothing like watching people in fallout 3 having sex than get their heads blown off!!!

oh...wait.....is that not what you meant? ohhhh..........................

*embarassed FO3 Modders step out of the room*

Strike For The South

11-20-2009, 04:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08#t=42s :smash: (language warning)

I don't know what those Germans are on about but they are certianly burning in hell

Centurion1

11-20-2009, 04:59

lol you can never win an arguement about faith. See many threads in the backroom for proof.

Centurion1

11-20-2009, 05:03

lol i read it backwards..... the guy arguing about islam is a TOTAL fundamentalist as is the christian (flob?).

stupid people, pi dont even bother.

there are surprisingly a good comments mixed in there

Cronos Impera

11-20-2009, 09:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08#t=42s :smash: (language warning)

"Let he who never sinned throw the first stone."
The New Testament overrides the Old Testament (the older norm is replaced by the newer one).
So Jesus overrrides Leviticus (that's why Bible should be let with qualified theologians, not avarage believers).

Azathoth

11-21-2009, 01:48

"Let he who never sinned throw the first stone."
The New Testament overrides the Old Testament (the older norm is replaced by the newer one).
So Jesus overrrides Leviticus (that's why Bible should be let with qualified theologians, not avarage believers).

Genesis 17:19
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Exodus 12:14, 17, 24
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. ... And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever. ... And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Leviticus 23:14,21,31
It shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.

Deuteronomy 4:8-9
What nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? ... teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations.

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 16:15
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant.

Psalm 119:151-2
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Malachi 4:4
Remember ye the law of Moses.

Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Aemilius Paulus

11-21-2009, 04:43

(that's why Bible should be let with qualified theologians, not avarage believers).
I know, right? They (theologian apologists) are so much better at stuffing crap up our rumps and down our throats... I also must comment on how curiously peculiar it is that the religious folk so vehemently deride "ivory-tower, liberal, smug, no-common-sense" intellectuals, namely doctorate holders as well as professors while ignoring that any theologian is essentially of the same breed. Well, sort of. Most (although certainly not all) religious degrees are a joke. Especially due to the immense amounts of unaccredited religious post-secondary isntitutions in US.

Religion is simple enough - making it complex only distorts what it originally began as. And seriously, what happened with the law "extraordinary claims necessitate extraordinary warrants"?

And yes, thank you Azathoth :bow:. Generally speaking, if I turned to any form of Middle Eastern belief, it would be Judaism I would convert to. The least amount of contradictions. Still a great deal though.

Prussian to the Iron

11-21-2009, 15:19

And yes, thank you Azathoth :bow:. Generally speaking, if I turned to any form of Middle Eastern belief, it would be Judaism I would convert to. The least amount of contradictions. Still a great deal though.

its cuz we're black rich :laugh4:

if yuo were offended by the black part, ill take it off; its a joke me and my buddies have, whenever something happens (good or bad) it's "cuz we're black". of course none of us are actually african american.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-21-2009, 16:37

Genesis 17:19
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Exodus 12:14, 17, 24
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. ... And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever. ... And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Leviticus 23:14,21,31
It shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.

Deuteronomy 4:8-9
What nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? ... teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations.

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 16:15
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant.

Psalm 119:151-2
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Malachi 4:4
Remember ye the law of Moses.

Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Quote in context or not at all, and never quote Mathew withour reference to the Sermon on the Mount.

Aemilius Paulus

11-21-2009, 17:05

Quote in context or not at all, and never quote Mathew withour reference to the Sermon on the Mount.
So how are we supposed to know what to ignore and what to not? Cherry-picking, anyone? Last time I checked, that was a logical fallacy, not a justification...

KarlXII

11-21-2009, 19:14

Easy. Story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's Side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 'No, Father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

Cronos Impera

11-21-2009, 21:51

Original:d'`alakh sani l'khaverkha la ta`avid. Zo hi kol hatora kulahh, v'idakh peirusha hu: zil g'mor
"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."Hillel the Elder, Babylonian Talmud, tractate Shabbat 31a

Both the Talmud and New Testament stem from the Old Testament or Torah. Putting aside the geopolitical enviroment in which they evolved, I belive that both have a simmilar tendancy and that is to append the Old Testament.

In the case of Christianity we have saints as a promoters of the new moral code, in the case of the Talmud we find a parallel evolutionist aproach to say at least.

So you start with the old Testament, continue with the New Testament and then read the life of saints. A Mosaic would start with the Torah, continue with the Talmud and end reading modern rabinical thesis. A Muslim starts with the Old Testament, continues with the Koran and ends reading modern prayers avoiding Bidah.

The cult of the elders is also important when speaking of the moral upbringing. You can get a preety decent moral code just from visiting your elders' grave.

The Old Testament is the root of all Abrahamic faiths. You can't avoid it because it has the Genesis, Flood.............

Beskar

11-21-2009, 22:01

You are talking to a guy who thinks the world is 5000 years old and you expect him to listen to reason.

It only works in the United States because they have no History. All you need to do is go to South America, Mexican, Europe, Africa, Asia anywhere else to clearly see it is obviously older. The pyramids for example are 5000 years old.

Cronos Impera

11-21-2009, 22:06

Obviously some clever guy is just turning back our clocks at night making a year a lot shorter. I blame the Sandman for that.

CrossLOPER

11-22-2009, 00:30

I think the original poster was being trolled.