Ethnicities

[Megas Methuselah]

Now that we know about EB2's new region&culture system, this brings about another question: ethnicity traits.

I'll make this short. Will a faction's possible FM ethnicity traits in a campaign be expanded over time as new cultures are brought into their empire's fold? i.e. If Carthage conquers Gaul, will a Gallic ethnicity trait of sorts be available in possible suitors/adoptees?

[Mediolanicus]

I hope something like that is possible. That would really give you the impression you are building up a multi-cultural empire.

[XSamatan]

just unbelievable....

You managed to get from ethnicities in EB2 to USA vs France vs Germany...great.

BTT:
IIRC this feature is already implemented in EB1 for some factions. If you play some hellenic faction and conquer i.e. the home lands of epirus, you can get husbands/man of the hour with the ethnic trait.

I do actually think that this should be restricted in EB2. Most cultures would only relied on local authorities by some degree, a full ascension in the leading circle of a faction (that is what the FM are representing) was more a exception (correct me if I'm wrong here).
Furthermore is it not yet revealed by the team how they will use the client-ruler system of EB1 and if they use it.

XSamatan

[Moros]

Please don't start spamming again.

If it's modern era military might you want to discuss, there's already a thread for it. If you don't want to make any sense, there's a tavern for it, if you want to post about EB and in this case ancient ethnicities then do carry on.

[HunGeneral]

Enabling new ethnicities across the campaign would be nice - although I wonder how the team plans in this area...

[Ludens]

Please don't start spamming again.

If it's modern era military might you want to discuss, there's already a thread for it. If you don't want to make any sense, there's a tavern for it, if you want to post about EB and in this case ancient ethnicities then do carry on.

Moros said it all. I will remove the OT posts.

[Ca Putt]

It would be good to have some sort of regional restriction, I hate it when as soon as the Black sea Poleis rebell to me my empire is swarmed by Pontic client rulers :(

[Darius]

I think it would be an incredibly great idea to allow conquered ethnic groups to begin getting recruited into your ranks not simply just as units but as generals and adopted/marriage/MoH family members as well. Given that they'd be of a foreign/mixed background, you could give each of the background traits that are non-native an influence penalty and/or a less likely chance to be elected/selected into any sort of office if they exist for that faction. Those that are entirely non-native should of course have a larger penalty than those who are just of a mixed background. Sure it doesn't sound like a big deal but I personally think it would help a great deal with adding to the immersion for the Role-Players.

[Megas Methuselah]

IIRC this feature is already implemented in EB1 for some factions. If you play some hellenic faction and conquer i.e. the home lands of epirus, you can get husbands/man of the hour with the ethnic trait.


Yes, but it's limited. You wouldn't, as KH, get any Romani or Getai FM's. Perhaps this ethnicity thing may be a tad unrealistic in some ways. I wish Moros answered my OP rather than spam my thread with an off-topic post.

[Cute Wolf]

I think this kind of traits could be triggered with double trigger. means when someone from that faction conquer a region (a trigger with condition , then a trigger for a new ethnicity type in suitors is relased.)

forgive my poor example, haven't test that yet... at least I know in M2TW, the Princess also has trait that determine their suitors.... (maybe this was an example, how a Makedonian strategos can get Avernii guy as his son-in-law, after he took Gergovia)

;------------------------------------------

Trigger AverniiGuyWillMarryYourGirl
WhenToTest GeneralCaptureSettlement

Condition SettlementName (Gergovia)
and FactionType (Makedon)

Affects AverniiGuyMarryYourGirl 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------

Trigger YourGirlCanGetAverniiGuy
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge
and AgentType = princess

Condition FatherTrait AverniiGuyMarryYourGirl > 0

Affects ThisGirlCanGetAverniiGuy 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------

Trigger AverniiGuyProposedForMarriage
WhenToTest OfferedForMarriage

Condition PrincessTrait ThisGirlCanGetAverniiGuy > 0

Affects Avernii 1 Chance 50
Affects Handsome 2 Chance 100
Affects GoodLeader 1 Chance 100
Affects TacticalSkill 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------

(get a chance to get Avernii suitors (normally makedon princess don't), because his father know some good looking and handsome warriors, and maybe some avernii get his proper attention)

EDIT: And I know that if we did this kind of double trigger, any faction without princess can't get expanded ethnicity :wink:

[Cute Wolf]

Soory to bump this thread, but I want to ask, is someone had experience with princess related trigger?

[Subotan]

This would be cool, if it was more general. I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't care about what particular tribe a Celt was when he married into a Greek city state, and vice versa.

[Megas Methuselah]

This would be cool, if it was more general. I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't care about what particular tribe a Celt was when he married into a Greek city state, and vice versa.

Yes. Whereas in a Gallic faction, there would be many Gallic ethnicities, the Romani might only have one standard Gallic ethnicity. :shrug:

[Cute Wolf]

Yes. Whereas in a Gallic faction, there would be many Gallic ethnicities, the Romani might only have one standard Gallic ethnicity. :shrug:

We can made each ethnicity (sub ethnicity) available to each faction on the condition they conquer a different city / region, so there is no need to give a "standard" ethnicity, such as plain "hellene", we can add "Spartiates" "Athenai" "Kres" "Rhodios" etc.... to almost all faction, given they get the proper regions, it just a matter of trait triggers...

[Megas Methuselah]

We can made each ethnicity (sub ethnicity) available to each faction on the condition they conquer a different city / region, so there is no need to give a "standard" ethnicity, such as plain "hellene", we can add "Spartiates" "Athenai" "Kres" "Rhodios" etc.... to almost all faction, given they get the proper regions, it just a matter of trait triggers...

Can it really be done with every single faction, though? That would be cool. I would be sure, though, that the primary ethnicities (Macedonian ethnicities for Macedon, for example) would hopefully get a far better chance than the foreign ethnicities at appearing (50%?).

[oudysseos]

You have to stop and consider for a moment how likely it is for widely divergent societies, some of them quite xenophobic, to acquire Family Members from unrelated ethnic groups. Yes, very gradually, Roman generals, magistrates, senators and even emperors came from originally non-Roman peoples, but this process took a very long time- in most cases, longer than the game lasts. And the Romans were very liberal about assimilating new peoples compared to many others such as the Carthaginians. Our guide here must be common sense and plausibility, together with historical examples. If you can think of any serious instances where, say, a Gaul became part of the Numidian family tree, then tell us about it.

Don't confuse Exogamy with ethnicity: Antiochus I Soter may have had a Persian mother, but he was not considered a Persian by any means, and his children and descendants were Macedonians.

Of course there are grey areas: the Kings of Pontus were well intermarried with the Macedonian lines- but that didn't really make them Maks, eh?

In the end it depends on each faction and how likely we think they would have accepted truly foreign men into their power structure. But bear in mind that a son inherits his fathers ethnic trait, so that adoptees, men of the hour, and husbands are the only way to introduce new ethnicities into a factions family tree.

[Cute Wolf]

Uhh, you're right... maybe it's not too realistic (in classical period sense) when a Sweboz chieftain accept Ethiophian men to marry his daughters....

[Horatius]

This seems very similar to the other ethnicities thread with the variation of family.

I personally see classical xenophobia as way overestimated, Cornelius Nepos was of Gallic extraction, but everyone needs to read his lives before becoming familiar with the people he talks about.

Not only that Roman Law concerns itself with marriage between citizens and non citizens and the status of their children.

Finally unless I am very much mistaken but the term Germanic and Celtic are not very descriptive.

Gauls just weren't Britons, Britons weren't Ligurians, Ligurians weren't Venetii, Venetii weren't Galatians etc etc

With the German groups to, there were unless I'm much mistaken as many Sarmatians amongst the Vandals as "Germans".

Barbarian terms have been very distorted in the last few thousand years by nationalists, I would much rather talk about the different groups, what (little) we know about them, and their interactions with others, I highly doubt we will ever be able to prove they came from anywere considering even the idea of Celts coming from central Europe raises the question then what were the Illyrians?

I have also found that MTW2 doesn't have the same bribery ease as RTW so it will be very hard to bring in new members of the family.

[Megas Methuselah]

You have to stop and consider for a moment how likely it is for widely divergent societies, some of them quite xenophobic, to acquire Family Members from unrelated ethnic groups. Yes, very gradually, Roman generals, magistrates, senators and even emperors came from originally non-Roman peoples, but this process took a very long time- in most cases, longer than the game lasts. And the Romans were very liberal about assimilating new peoples compared to many others such as the Carthaginians. Our guide here must be common sense and plausibility, together with historical examples. If you can think of any serious instances where, say, a Gaul became part of the Numidian family tree, then tell us about it.

Don't confuse Exogamy with ethnicity: Antiochus I Soter may have had a Persian mother, but he was not considered a Persian by any means, and his children and descendants were Macedonians.

Of course there are grey areas: the Kings of Pontus were well intermarried with the Macedonian lines- but that didn't really make them Maks, eh?

In the end it depends on each faction and how likely we think they would have accepted truly foreign men into their power structure. But bear in mind that a son inherits his fathers ethnic trait, so that adoptees, men of the hour, and husbands are the only way to introduce new ethnicities into a factions family tree.

Bah! Aye wants Ethiopian men konquerin' Britain!!!

[-42-]

I'm guessing ethnicity will have a major impact on loyalty.