Ruthenians

[JANOSIK007]

An ages old culture is on the brink of destruction.

If you know something about them: you probably know that they're People without a country, and they always have been.

I am talking about Ruthenians.
I am from Slovakia, but I feel like I am Slovako-Ruthenian.
I am proud of my dual heritage as they act as a Gateway between the East and West.

The dilema Ruthenians are faced with now is that the young generation is forgeting their roots and convering to their home country, wheter it is Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, or Hungary.

It's ironic that Ruthenes have helped create these countries. In Slovakia, for instance, many wealthy and influential Ruthenians have worked side-by-side with Slovaks to end the Hungarian opression.

All of these feats have been forgotten and Ruthenian culture is left bleeding last of its drops.

What's even worse is that they're located in many different coutries ( mentioned above ).

At least after WW1 Ruthenia was part of Czecho-Slovakia. At that time they were atleast united within one country.
And with WW2,when Ruthenia was annexed by SSSR, their fate was sealed.
Does anyone knows the details of the annexation?
I don't know why this happened, but there was no reason for this to happen.

Also many of them had to change their nationalities in Poland. The ones that didn't were chased out of their homes by Polish army over the borders ( the ones that refused to leave their homes got killed ) . Somehow this has gonne unnoticed by the history.

And as I will age there will be less and less remainig Ruthenians in this world. Until one day they will be forgotten.

[Heraclius]

It is a terribly sad thing when a people dies out. It is the worst effect globalization is having on the world and especially Europe, which has such a rich history of ethnic diversity. Not just races but languages are dying out to at an extremely fast rate and it is a shame. Sometimes when I'm walking down a street in Athens, or Budapest or Paris or anywhere and I see McDonalds and Gaps and Burger Kings its enough to make me want to shout. I am sad to say I know very little about the Ruthenes except what you have mentioned and a little history in context with World War I and the Versailles treaty. It really is a pity and I wish someone could do something to stop it but I fear that the world is moving on an irrevocable tide to a place where every one is the same.

[Hakonarson]

Yes I've heard of Ruthenia, and no I don't think it's a sad thing at all when a culture dies out.

If something doesn't change then it dies out.

Trying to preserve the "traditional" culture anywhere is a pointless exercise - at what point do you want to "freeze" your culture? 10 yrs ago? 20? 100? 200?

Why bother? Culture exists to serve people, and if a culture cannot serve it's people then it needs to change or be replaced.

Get used to it - no-one mourns the passing of the culture that Ruthenians replaced, and we aer not worse off because that cultuer ded out - it gave whatever it had to us, and we moved on.

so it will be with Ruthenia and all the other little cultures whose partisans are feeling overwhelmed by the world.

C'est la vie

[Heraclius]

I must respectfully disagree with you here, Hakonarson, because of what these cultures (Ruthenian for example)are being replaced by. Namely American culture. I live in America and love it, although Greece of course is where my heart is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, but culture and national identity is not something that should be thrown out when "it gave whatever it had to us" as you said.
I don't mean to sound sentimental or wishy washy (which I hate) but the thing, in part, that makes the world interesting are its differences. If Slovakia, for example, becomes an Americanized country what's the point of going to Slovakia to visit or even learning about it if you see the same things by walking down your own street. I agree that cultures must naturally "pass away" but first we must consider what is replacing them.

[Hakonarson]

So you think a culture has intrinsic value appart from its usefulness to its citizens?

Presumably then ppl should be forced to retain a culture they'd rather move on from just so there can be places for ppl to find "interesting"??

My....what an..um....interesting attitude Perhaps you could call them reservations........

[Heraclius]

i'm not expressing myself very well here but what I am saying is that in principle I agree that cultures should rise and flow naturally, so to speak, but what I find sad is that unique and interesting cultures are being replaced by a single, uninteresting one with nothing to offer to its citizens. In short, I guess I am opposed to one global culture replacing all the others.

[Heraclius]

i'm not expressing myself very well here but what I am saying is that in principle I agree that cultures should rise and flow naturally, so to speak, but what I find sad is that unique and interesting cultures are being replaced by a single, uninteresting one with nothing to offer to its citizens. In short, I guess I am opposed to one global culture replacing all the others.

[Hakonarson]

A culture that offers nothing to its citizens won't erplace anything - IMO yuo're missing the ponit - American culture is being adopted and adapted around the world becuae it does offer somethign that pple want.

And it's not a single culture - "americanisms" are different the world over - even MacDonalds offers regional variations.

And some periods of "high" culture have been dominated by a single one - France, England, Italy, Rome, Greece - all ahve at one stage or other been the dominant culture in Europe (if not actually dominant militarily at het same time).

[BlackWatch McKenna]

I am Scottish - because my Corporate Culture is McDonalds.

[71-hour Ahmed]

No way can you blame that scary clown on us mate. Its yours, all the terror and the dead chicken heads in food of it.

Cultures that are smaller are weaker, as they generate less material that people can associate as being from it, there is less to say makes you what you are. This is why they die out. The solution then is to give them someway of creating something that others cannot do as well, something to bond the people with, no?

[Hakonarson]

Quote[/b] (BlackWatch McKenna @ Mar. 03 2003,11:39)]I am Scottish - because my Corporate Culture is McDonalds.
I am Scottish because my surname is Campbell..........by al means blame us for Glen Coe - the rest of Scotland blames us because "we" attacked, the rest of the world should blame us because now we can see the results of one getting away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Heraclius]

Well, Hakonarson, I've really thought and begun to change my mind a little. Although it is kind of sad to see a native culture dissapear and be assimilated, as you say, c'est la vie, the world cannot be stopped in time and no matter what we do the most powerful nation, and its culture, will be adopted all over the world. This of course has its downsides but all so its good points. As American culture arrives in other nations so does American business and people in that nation generally do get a better quality of life, more money, better healthcare, more education etc etc. I'm still a little muddled about what I believe but thanks for making me think Hakonarson. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ Mar. 02 2003,16:28)]Yes I've heard of Ruthenia, and no I don't think it's a sad thing at all when a culture dies out.

If something doesn't change then it dies out.

Trying to preserve the "traditional" culture anywhere is a pointless exercise - at what point do you want to "freeze" your culture? 10 yrs ago? 20? 100? 200?

Why bother? Culture exists to serve people, and if a culture cannot serve it's people then it needs to change or be replaced.

Get used to it - no-one mourns the passing of the culture that Ruthenians replaced, and we aer not worse off because that cultuer ded out - it gave whatever it had to us, and we moved on.

so it will be with Ruthenia and all the other little cultures whose partisans are feeling overwhelmed by the world.

C'est la vie
It's not about freezing one own's culture, it's about having it preserved for the future generations.

I am not saying that we should live in the past, I just don't wnant my people to assimilate into "Americans".

The times of ruthless conquest are well behind us. It's no longer neccessary to kill in order to survive. But it seems that there is another war going on. War against Globalization. That's what the terrorists are fighting. Though I don't approve using violence to pursue a cause, I can uderstand how scared they are of loosing their own culture.

Ruthenians are adept people and they have been adapting without losing the track of what's theirs. The very thing that makes them unique is disappearing and only thing remaining is their genes, which soon are to be wiped out too.

Are we moving into an age where human individuality will be obsolete?

Seems to me like we'll all be fattening up on those disgusting burgers at McDonalds real soon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[BlackWatch McKenna]

No one thinks there is a corporate culture?

[Hakonarson]

gosh Heraclius - I'm stunned - hardly anybody actually takes what I post and thinks about it enough to alter their thinking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

McKenna of course there's a corporate culture - greed, dishonesty, money at all costs and you-scratch-my-back-and-I'll-stab-yours

I'm not sure what it means to preserve a culture for descendants - they will haev a culture of their own, and how many of us really follow in even our parents' footsteps in terms of culture?

[BlackWatch McKenna]

I think preserving culture starts with the passing on of traditions which a family has.

It might be that folks dont even know they are passing traditions on. It might be the "That's just the way we do things" mentality. Not until you step back and look at it as a whole do you realize that the patchwork of traditions make up your "culture".

That being said, the blood in your veins could have less to do with your cultural experience than the way you were raised ??

As for culture in modern society... well - societies come up with rules to help them survive... modernly, it's not like you really need "the tribe" or your village to help you get food and shelter and fend off enemies - so that would account for a loss of traditions and culture.

~BW

[Heraclius]

you're a deep and convincing thinker, Hakonarson. Use your powers of persuasion wisely http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif