Morale

[Prince Cobra]

Inspired by some cavalry units, I open this dicussion.

Well, as far as I know there are several ways to make an army more courageous. Building Church (+1), monastery(+1), reliquery(+2),Cathedral (+3). Do this mean that in a province with all these, you can get up to +7 morale?

Master Spearmaker, Master Swordsmith, Master Horsebreeder, Master Bowyer Master in Science, these all get +1 valour (+1 attack +1 def +2 morale).

For each star of the unit leader, the unit gets morale bonus + def + attack (not sure how much). The command stars of the general affect the defense and the attack of the troops but not the morale. Fighting downhill gives +2 morale and aditional attacking and defensive capabilities.

Do I miss anything?

[caravel]

All morale effects/modifiers are explained here: http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/1701/t/Medieval-TotalWar-Numerology.html

:bow:

[gollum]

The details are in that thread Asai posted, however the factor that dramatically affect morale you missed are the general's stars; every unit receives +1valor for every 2generalstars which, and every valor point is +2morale in turn, meaning that its +1morale/generalstar(for even number of stars). This means that a 10 star general gives +10(!) morale. Generally elite units like knights and the like have base morale=8. This is already quite high. However enything above about 14 makes units unroutable, and this is pretty easy to happen in the SP game as the discussion so far should clearly show. These are the infamous "jedis". This is made even more grave for family members that gain additional valor from v'n'vs.

[drone]

I'm not sure the morale bonuses from religious buildings stack. The province happiness will, as the church/monastery/reliquary/cathedral are in different lines, but I don't think the UPGRADE_MORALE bonus works the same way.

[caravel]

The details are in that thread Asai posted, however the factor that dramatically affect morale you missed are the general's stars; every unit receives +1valor for every 2generalstars which, and every valor point is +2morale in turn, meaning that its +1morale/generalstar(for even number of stars). This means that a 10 star general gives +10(!) morale. Generally elite units like knights and the like have base morale=8. This is already quite high. However enything above about 14 makes units unroutable, and this is pretty easy in the SP game as the discussion so far should clearly show. These are the infamous "jedis".
Units do not get the morale bonus from the valour obtained from the general's command star bonus. The bonus is obtained directly from the command stars and and centres around the general himself. Once those units stray outside a 50 metre radius, the morale bonus is effectively cut in half.


I'm not sure the morale bonuses from religious buildings stack. The province happiness will, as the church/monastery/reliquary/cathedral are in different lines, but I don't think the UPGRADE_MORALE bonus works the same way.
That's how I understand it as well.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa
Units do not get the morale bonus from the valour obtained from the general's command star bonus. The bonus is obtained directly from the command stars and and centres around the general himself. Once those units stray outside a 50 metre radius, the morale bonus is effectively cut in half.

Is this from the numerology thread? It has me a bit in disbelief because you can see the valor being upgraded in the units on the campaign map.


Originally posted by drone
I'm not sure the morale bonuses from religious buildings stack. The province happiness will, as the church/monastery/reliquary/cathedral are in different lines, but I don't think the UPGRADE_MORALE bonus works the same way.

I always thought they stack, although its quite possible that they dont.

However, it should be easily confirmable by testing. By pressing F1 while in the battlefield one opens a very handy summary of stats for all present units.

[caravel]

Is this from the numerology thread? It has me a bit in disbelief because you can see the valor being upgraded in the units on the campaign map.
The units get valour from the general minus the morale. The localised command star bonus morale is then worked out differently as described above. The numerology thread does cover it, but not in detail.

:bow:

[gollum]

Thank you

:bow:

[caravel]

This subject game up before - probably about 2 years ago now. I'm sure it was actually thoroughly tested (using the F1 screen as well) and it was proven that the morale bonuses from buildings does not stack. I'm not 100% sure why that is... finding the thread will be difficult but I'll have a look.

-Edit: Found the thread (going to read it now myself):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64540

-Edit: I don't get it... :book::dizzy2:

[gollum]

Puzz3D's post on morale affirms you Asai:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75234

a lot of useful info there too.

:bow:

[gollum]

Now i remember each building is overriding the previous one in the same line if it gives a higher morale bonus. So this is why the church and monastery give the same result, but when one is destroyed teh other gives out the bonus. The reliquary and Cathedral however that give more override it.

IIRC the same logic applies with armor and weapon upgrades.

[caravel]

Puzz3D's post on morale affirms you Asai:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75234

a lot of useful info there too.

:bow:

Yes it's a good post.

I'm still not clear on the buildings morale bonuses however. That needs to be tested by someone that's in the middle of a big campaign. The best way to test this is to train the units in the province with combinations of those buildings and then send them into battle with a 0 star general and hit F1. The best types of units to check would be basic ones, that already have 0 base morale etc, trained in provinces where there are no valour bonuses.

I feel that the OP of that other thread's results may have been confused by the fact that many units don't start out with 0 base morale, but usually have something between -2 and 8.

-Edit: I get it. They are simply not cumulative. But why are the results doubled on the F1 report?

:bow:

[drone]

This subject game up before - probably about 2 years ago now. I'm sure it was actually thoroughly tested (using the F1 screen as well) and it was proven that the morale bonuses from buildings does not stack. I'm not 100% sure why that is... finding the thread will be difficult but I'll have a look.

-Edit: Found the thread (going to read it now myself):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64540

-Edit: I don't get it... :book::dizzy2:

From that thread, it looks like the stated bonus is actually doubled, but is capped for the highest building upgrade. :inquisitive:

I think this is how the UPGRADE_ mechanic works, it will upgrade the unit's weapons/armor/morale/valour/discipline to the numbered max level. This may be done in code to prevent retraining to get cumulative effects.

[gollum]

originally posted by drone
I think this is how the UPGRADE_ mechanic works, it will upgrade the unit's weapons/armor/morale/valour/discipline to the numbered max level.

that's precisely what i previously meant and i have tried that actually with the armor/weapon upgrades and it works exactly like that.