Religions of Peace part XIV

[Louis VI the Fat]

Festival of mass animal sacrifice begins in Nepal

By GEMUNU AMARASINGHE (AP)

BARIYAPUR, Nepal — The ceremony began with prayers in a temple by tens of thousands of Hindus before dawn Tuesday. Then it shifted to a nearby corral, where in the cold morning mist, scores of butchers wielding curved swords began slaughtering buffalo calves by hacking off their heads.
Over two days, 200,000 buffaloes, goats, chickens and pigeons will be killed as part of a blood-soaked festival held every five years to honor Gadhimai, a Hindu goddess of power.

While cows are sacred and protected by law in Nepal, animal sacrifice has a long history in this overwhelmingly Hindu country and parts of neighboring India. The Bariyapur festival has become so big, in part, because such ceremonies have been banned in many areas in the neighboring Indian state of Bihar.

And while it is criticized by animal-rights protesters, the festival is defended as a centuries-old tradition.

Many Nepalis believe that sacrifices in Gadhimai's honor will bring them prosperity. They also believe that by eating the meat, which is taken back to their villages and consumed during feasts, they will be protected from evil.

Taranath Gautam, the top government official in the area, estimated that more than 200,000 people had come for the ceremony in Bariyapur, some 100 kilometers (60 miles) from Katmandu. Some brought their own animals to sacrifice.

"I am here with my mother who had promised the goddess she would sacrifice a goat. It was her wish and promise and I am glad we were able to fulfill it," said Pramod Das, a farmer from the nearby village of Sarlahi. "I believe now my mother's wishes will come true."

Animal rights groups don't have much power in Nepal, but they have staged repeated protests in recent weeks. Local news reports say some activists set up stands in towns on the way to the Bariyapur temple, offering Hindu pilgrims coconuts and other fruits to sacrifice instead of animals.
There was no sign of them Tuesday.

"We were unable to stop the animal sacrifices this year but we will continue our campaign to stop killings during this festival," said Pramada Shah of the group Animals Nepal.

The ceremony, which goes back for generations, has enormous resonance in a country where per capital income is about $25 a month, illiteracy is widespread and vast social divides have left millions working as tenant farmers for feudal landlords.

Even many educated Nepalis see value in the tradition. Om Prasad, a banker from the nearby city of Birgunj, brought offerings of fruit and flowers to the festival, but said he believed people should be able to sacrifice animals if they want. "It is their tradition and it is fine if they continue to follow it. No one should try to tell them they can't follow what their ancestors did," he said.

Experts say it will take many more years before there are changes in these deeply rooted traditions. "They continue these animal sacrifice rituals because they believe it is a tradition that can't be broken," said Ram Bahadur Chetri, an anthropology professor at Katmandu's Tribhuwan University. "The people who follow these traditions believe that if they discontinue, then the gods will get angry and there could be catastrophe in the country."
Buffaloes, goats, chicken and ducks are sacrificed at most Hindu homes in Nepal during the Dasain festivals, which fell in September this year.

Warning! Gruesome picture behind spoiler:https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6411/55476769.jpg (https://img509.imageshack.us/i/55476769.jpg/)

Link with truely gruesome pictures: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goxbf45tEc4Xj_WypDW6j3G6fE4wD9C6127G1



The name on everyone’s lips on Tuesday, when the slaughter of buffaloes started, was that of Raman Thakur, a farmer from Sitamarhi in Bihar who sacrificed 105 buffaloes to show his gratitude. The goddess, Thakur said, had answered the prayer he had made five years ago by granting him a son.

Men, women and children poured in from Bihar, most of them carrying kid goats and roosters, many of which had been smuggled across the porous Indo-Nepal border, bypassing the few Nepali quarantine posts. “My son Vishnu has been ill for years and can’t walk,” said Kalaiya Devi, pointing to a severely malnourished child in her arms whose legs looked like matchsticks. “I am going to sacrifice a pigeon now and come back with a buffalo at the next fair if the goddess gives him the strength to walk.”
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/Indians-throng-Nepals-Gadhimai-fair-for-animal-sacrifice/articleshow/5264701.cms


I eat meat, and I have little illusions about the treatment and slaughter of the animals I eat. Even so, there is something very unsettling about this mass sacrificial slaughter.
200000 buffalo and other animals slaughtered for the grace of imaginary gods.

[Fragony]

Never knew about this, yeah this is sick no free pass from here this has to stop I don´t care about their imaginary friends this has no purpose at all.

edit, this is really horrible, good luck respecting it.

[Furunculus]

not so much respect or lack thereof, because sacrificing to imaginary gods seem daft, but given that they supposedly eat it all afterwards; lack of interest.

it they were dumping it all afterwards i'd be the first to yell; "muppets", but they aren't, so i won't.

[Jolt]

This has been done ever since the dawn of mankind. It's the same as saying "Hey look, humans kill other humans! Oh, the shock!"

[Fragony]

not so much respect or lack thereof, because sacrificing to imaginary gods seem daft, but given that they supposedly eat it all afterwards; lack of interest.

it they were dumping it all afterwards i'd be the first to yell; "muppets", but they aren't, so i won't.

You are right but I still have swine flue and I am currently in consequence emotionally unstable.

I like animals.

[Riedquat]

I'm sorry but I don't see anything wrong with it, i mean, they eat the meat afterwards, is normal cattle, feed and breed with the purpose of eat it in the end, slaughtering them all together or one on one doesn't do any difference. Religion, tradition, I don't care, many of you eat turkey for thanksgiving others ham in Christmas, do you stop to think about the turkey/pig slaughter, do you think it is any better? Yes images are gruesome as in any industrialized meat factory.
:lipsrsealed2:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm sorry but I don't see anything wrong with it, i mean, they eat the meat afterwards, is normal cattle, feed and breed with the purpose of eat it in the end, slaughtering them all together or one on one doesn't do any difference. Religion, tradition, I don't care, many of you eat turkey for thanksgiving others ham in Christmas, do you stop to think about the turkey/pig slaughter, do you think it is any better? Yes images are gruesome as in any industrialized meat factory.
:lipsrsealed2:

Mass, unorganised, slaughter by beheading is different to ordered execution with a bolt gun.

[rvg]

No price is too high to keep the gods happy.

[Furunculus]

Mass, unorganised, slaughter by beheading is different to ordered execution with a bolt gun.
this is Nepal*.

$20 dollars a day
life expectancy of around 45
little fellows in Mao jackets and machetes who still believe communism wasn't a stupid idea

i don't think they are too concerned about the method of killing.

besides, if you had heard stories about what british mega-abatoirs are like you would not be so gung-ho to criticise these guys!


* not tibet as originally mis-stated, same difference tho

[drone]

Mass, unorganised, slaughter by beheading is different to ordered execution with a bolt gun.

Trust the Space Marines to keep a slaughter organized. :clown:


This week is the end of probably the largest animal slaughter in the western world. By beheading. So I don't really see a problem with what the Hindus are doing, the meat is being eaten. To condemn this a day before saying grace over a dead turkey would be the height of hypocrisy.

[Riedquat]

Mass, unorganised, slaughter by beheading is different to ordered execution with a bolt gun.

Have you seen such gun in action?

So now is a matter of organization? not about religion? Animals suffer, one way or another they always do, so the difference is in meat factories there are methods to reduce that suffering... right because companies care to much about their product suffering... :no:

[lars573]

this is tibet.

$20 dollars a day
life expectancy of around 45
little fellows in Mao jackets and machetes who still believe communism wasn't a stupid idea

i don't think they are too concerned about the method of killing.

besides, if you had heard stories about what british mega-abatoirs are like you would not be so gung-ho to criticise these guys!
Did you even read it? It's Nepal.

[Furunculus]

Did you even read it? It's Nepal.

my bad, slip of the toungue.

same applies, given that is what i meant anyway.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Mass, unorganised, slaughter by beheading is different to ordered execution with a bolt gun.

But this doesn't actually say anything.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Mmmm, goat! I wanted to be there!

[Major Robert Dump]

I have a feeling that the whole "we eat them all" argument is a little over stated. That's a lot of animals to transport, skin, butcher and refrigerate before the meat goes bad. But then again, it's Nepal, and stank meat may be in fashion. One could make a killing getting a butcher license and moving to nepal for the week just to take advantage of this free meat.

I bet a lot of them are left to rot and tossed out and never touched for food.

I don't care either way, I hate cows. And the Gods.

[Sarmatian]

I don't see what's wrong with it. The animals aren't killed in inhuman fashion ie. they aren't made to suffer and the meat is eaten afterward. Since eating the meat is allowed, I really doubt it is left to rot afterward in a country where average salary is 25$.

As drone said, how many millions of turkeys are slaughtered in the US every year for thanksgiving? Just because it is done industrially doesn't make it different.

[rvg]

Exactly. In a world where humans get slaughtered like cattle, animals and their problems need to take a back seat.

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't see what's wrong with it. The animals aren't killed in inhuman fashion ie. they aren't made to suffer and the meat is eaten afterward. Since eating the meat is allowed, I really doubt it is left to rot afterward in a country where average salary is 25$.

As drone said, how many millions of turkeys are slaughtered in the US every year for thanksgiving? Just because it is done industrially doesn't make it different.

Well, I wouldn't call chasing terrified calves around and hacking them to death with machetes while the other calves watch humane. What really strikes me as odd is all the people who gather to watch it. I love my cheeseburgers, but I've never had an inkling to stop by the alughterhouse to spectate.

[Sarmatian]

Well, I wouldn't call chasing terrified calves around and hacking them to death with machetes while the other calves watch humane.

You mean other calves may develop emotional issues later on?



What really strikes me as odd is all the people who gather to watch it. I love my cheeseburgers, but I've never had an inkling to stop by the alughterhouse to spectate.

Neither have I, but let's remember this isn't done for fun but as a religious ritual.

[Husar]

I thought it looks like fun. Must be the mood I'm in.
Finally a way to slaughter through hundreds of bodies without ending up in jail. :sweatdrop:
If they eat them afterwards I don't see what the outrage is about, there may be more humane ways to do it but then the (for those people) very real gods would probably not be pleased.

Would you want to displease the gods? :inquisitive:

[Major Robert Dump]

You mean other calves may develop emotional issues later on?



Neither have I, but let's remember this isn't done for fun but as a religious ritual.

Calves that watch other cows being slaughtered grow up with a horde of emotional issue which make them more likely to be calve molesters, thieves and abusive bulls.

[Papewaio]

Ever wonder what society could create Gurkhas?

If any animal is going to die by a group that has competent knife work it would have to be in Nepal.

In NZ cattle on farms are shot whilst sheep have their throats slit (can remember seeing that at age four). Bit different in Abattoirs...

[Meneldil]

Neither have I, but let's remember this isn't done for fun but as a religious ritual.

So? Doesn't make it any less silly and/or disgusting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So? Doesn't make it any less silly and/or disgusting.

I doubt they are disgusted.

[Furunculus]

Ever wonder what society could create Gurkhas?

If any animal is going to die by a group that has competent knife work it would have to be in Nepal.

In NZ cattle on farms are shot whilst sheep have their throats slit (can remember seeing that at age four). Bit different in Abattoirs...

i was about five when i watched a pig gets its throat slit in africa.

[Fragony]

Have you seen such gun in action?


I have, done a lot of business with slaughterhouses, also kosher and halal. I know a shooting pin looks horrible but the animal is instantly braindead, they shake violently but they are already gone. People should be complaining about transportation instead, that is cruel, the actual butchering, not so much. Everything is cleaned afterwards, they have no idea what's going on and then it's over.

[Sarmatian]

So? Doesn't make it any less silly and/or disgusting.

Well, considering silly, in my opinion everything related to religion is silly, which doesn't mean other people shouldn't practice their religious customs.

Disgusting is too strong a word. Distasteful would be more appropriate.

It's still true however that:
1) those are clean kills
2) the meat is eaten afterward

So it's just like a slaughterhouse but outside.

[Subotan]

To be honest, I don't actually care. Although I would never hurt an animal out of maliciouness, this doesn't raise the slightest bit of emotion in me.

Why? Because there are plenty of examples of humans suffering much worse circumstances than these bloody cows. Animal rights is a non-issue, and should remain so until every human being on the planet has freedom from want and freedom from fear.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Have you seen such gun in action?

So now is a matter of organization? not about religion? Animals suffer, one way or another they always do, so the difference is in meat factories there are methods to reduce that suffering... right because companies care to much about their product suffering... :no:

Actually, we only slaughter by fours here, and we usually use an iron hammer.

[gaelic cowboy]

To be honest, I don't actually care. Although I would never hurt an animal out of maliciouness, this doesn't raise the slightest bit of emotion in me.

Why? Because there are plenty of examples of humans suffering much worse circumstances than these bloody cows. Animal rights is a non-issue, and should remain so until every human being on the planet has freedom from want and freedom from fear.

Here here

[Pannonian]

Trust the Space Marines to keep a slaughter organized. :clown:

I think this thread just shows that there's a philosophical split between those Boyz who prefer choppaz and those who prefer shootaz.

[gaelic cowboy]

For the Emperor

EDIT: Removed hotlinked picture.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Hindus had their sacrificial slaughter earlier this week.

The US gives thanks tonight by sacrificing turkeys.

The Muslims have their Aïd el-Kebir tomorrow. The Great Feast of Sacrifice, to commemorate Ibrahim's willingness to sacrifice his son to God. (Abraham)


Bloody, bloody, bloody. Not a good week to be a cow, turkey or sheep.

Apart from the simple logic of slaughtering animals in the fall, there must be a common reasoning behind sacrifice, behind the thought one needs to shed blood for the gods.

I was a bit surprised to find out the Hindus sacrificied, shed blood to appease their imaginary overlords too. I thought it was an Eastern Mediterranean practice. The Baal cult of the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the Palestians, the Muslims. The Carthaginians had the novelty of their leader sacrificing herself for their sins. Their Phoenician neighbours a bit to the south, the Palestinians, took this gimmick one step further still and had their God sacrifing himself/his son for their sins.

But the Aztec and Hindu gods demand blood too. Something universal then. I don't understand the mechanism.

[gaelic cowboy]

I was a bit surprised to find out the Hindus sacrificied, shed blood to appease their imaginary overlords too. I thought it was an Eastern Mediterranean practice.

I seem to remember summit about how the Buddist influence in early India led to a fall off of animal sacrifice but obviously it held on in some areas.

[caravel]

I thought the bovine was sacred to hindus?

[gaelic cowboy]

They look like water buffalo to me which are not sacred and are used as beast's of burden and to plough and such. Cow's are different though they are sacred and not to be harmed by Hindu people at least.

[lars573]

I thought the bovine was sacred to hindus?
Despite what some would have you believe Hindu is a polytheistic belief system, and being as ancient (stemming mostly from Iron age Vedic systems) as it is Byzantinely complex. The cult of each god believes that a certain animal embodies the spirit of their god. The bovine is the sacred animal of Krishna, or at the very least associated with the cult of Krishna. In certain texts Krishna is a cowherd, "the child who protects the cows," "one who brings satisfaction to the cows." Leaving aside the other Hindu belief systems that incorporate the cow as the creator figure and systainer of civilization. And monkey's are sacred animals to Hindu's. Gray langurs or Hanuman Langur. Are seen as sacred because they are the living embodiment of Hanuman the monkey god, 11th incarnation (Rudra avtar) of Lord Shiva. They roam free in Indian cities as much as cows do.

[Pannonian]

Despite what some would have you believe Hindu is a polytheistic belief system, and being as ancient (stemming mostly from Iron age Vedic systems) as it is Byzantinely complex. The cult of each god believes that a certain animal embodies the spirit of their god. The bovine is the sacred animal of Krishna, or at the very least associated with the cult of Krishna. In certain texts Krishna is a cowherd, "the child who protects the cows," "one who brings satisfaction to the cows."
Cowshagger?

[lars573]

Well is a cow isn't milked it starts to cause them discomfort. So cowjerker. Besides Cowshagger would be both bestiality and kiddy-pron. As Krishna is depicted as a 5 yearold as much as he is a young adult.

[Leet Eriksson]

The Hindus had their sacrificial slaughter earlier this week.

The US gives thanks tonight by sacrificing turkeys.

The Muslims have their Aïd el-Kebir tomorrow. The Great Feast of Sacrifice, to commemorate Ibrahim's willingness to sacrifice his son to God. (Abraham)


Bloody, bloody, bloody. Not a good week to be a cow, turkey or sheep.

Apart from the simple logic of slaughtering animals in the fall, there must be a common reasoning behind sacrifice, behind the thought one needs to shed blood for the gods.

I was a bit surprised to find out the Hindus sacrificied, shed blood to appease their imaginary overlords too. I thought it was an Eastern Mediterranean practice. The Baal cult of the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the Palestians, the Muslims. The Carthaginians had the novelty of their leader sacrificing herself for their sins. Their Phoenician neighbours a bit to the south, the Palestinians, took this gimmick one step further still and had their God sacrifing himself/his son for their sins.


hi maybe you remember me, speaking as a muslim, the benefits of these sacrifices is to feed the poor, both islamic festivals are in general about charity.

This isn't some mindless practice of shedding blood for sky wizards, it has its usefulness and it'd be hard to argue against a practice meant to help, regardless.

[Papewaio]

It could be worse, they could be over feeding the animal to the point it is obese, living a very unhealthy life and in much pain, just to eat the fattened liver. But thankfully no civilised modern society or person would partake in such a barbaric practice...

[Louis VI the Fat]

It could be worse, they could be over feeding the animal to the point it is obese, living a very unhealthy life and in much pain, just to eat the fattened liver. But thankfully no civilised modern society or person would partake in such a barbaric practice...But that is for charity! It feeds people starving






for nice fat livers.

As for the rest of your post, I am in a combative mood because tomorrow is Friday and I have to get up early for work so:


Pft.


Twenty-five million British settlers in an entire continet who, erm, who...uh...eat cows and erm, chickens and all that!


Yeah.


Take that.

[Papewaio]

For me it is almost lunchtime on Friday :)

I will go have a bagel with turkey, cranberry sauce and cambert cheese washed down by a milk shake sized quad-shot cappuccino.

I had Thai red curry with crocodile at my local restaurant the other day. Haven't had kangaroo or emu... yet.

BTW did you know that the damaged prions in goose liver goes on to damage the prions in the eaters...

[Ironside]

But the Aztec and Hindu gods demand blood too. Something universal then. I don't understand the mechanism.

blood=life=power.

I give you something precious (to you and me (the concept of sacrifice)) and in return you hopefully do what ask.

We have vampires as the condensed western mythological relic from that idea.

[Subotan]

We have vampires as the condensed western mythological relic from that idea.

How the Hell did that get corrupted into the Mormon propaganda rubbish that we know as "Twilight"?

[Sarmatian]

blood=life=power.

I give you something precious (to you and me (the concept of sacrifice)) and in return you hopefully do what ask.

We have vampires as the condensed western mythological relic from that idea.

Vampires are product of popular culture, they're not related to christianity...

[Subotan]

Vampires are product of popular culture, they're not related to christianity...

Umm. They're derived from Slavic pagan folk myths. Vampire in English is a loan word originally from Serbian.

[Ironside]

Vampires are product of popular culture, they're not related to christianity...

While the vampire itself is mostly eastern european and modern appearence starts during the 18:th century, the bloodsucking, life-draining, malvevolent, often sexual being is older than that.

Lamastu (sumerian), Laima (greek), Lilith (vagely mentioned in the bible, jewish, are the more sexual blod-drinkers (among other bad stuff, often succubus related). Several other demons are blod drinkers.

Then we have revenants and ghouls.

The bible has a river into blood, defense vs demons ("the destroyer") in the form of blood to protect your firstborn children and I didn't really bother to search for more references.

Christianity never really jumped on it, but you drink the blood of christ and eat his body....

Relevation 1:5 To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

The power of blood is still obviously present in Christianity, even if it seems to be a tendency that Jesus' blood was enough and God don't need any more blood.

Human sacrifices (not uncommon amoungst the different pagan religions) is built on the same principle of blood=life=power.

[Sarmatian]

Umm. They're derived from Slavic pagan folk myths. Vampire in English is a loan word originally from Serbian.

Precisely, a myth which pretty much died out with christianity (except some smaller rural communities) and was resurrected by Bram Stoker.

edit: come to think of it, red wine symbolizes the blood of Christ, so there may be something to what you say... I've never really thought of it that way.

[Subotan]

But Serbia is a part of Western Civilisation is it not, so any Serbian Mythology would be considered Western Mythology.

[A Very Super Market]

As an Orthodox state, Serbia cannot be counted as a member of Western civilisation. On and off vassalage under the Ottomans, little interest in matters beyond the Balkans, it falls firmly in Eastern Europe.

Anyways, what role does Vlad Dracul play in the evolution of the myth? Just as a template for SToker?

[Azathoth]

Bloodsuckers are very common. They are in the folk legends of West African, Native American, and Southeast Asian cultures, among others.


As an Orthodox state, Serbia cannot be counted as a member of Western civilisation. On and off vassalage under the Ottomans, little interest in matters beyond the Balkans, it falls firmly in Eastern Europe.

Define Eastern and Western here. Is Greece part of Eastern civilization?

[Samurai Waki]

I'd say Serbia (and much of the Balkans for that matter) is culturally east because of it's heavy Slavic influences, religion, or Ottoman rule has little to do with it. Greece has very little Slavic Influence, so it falls out of the Eastern Sphere. Although, I'd say it's more a matter of nationalism, than actually meaning anything important.

[Hosakawa Tito]

offering Hindu pilgrims coconuts and other fruits to sacrifice instead of animals.


Think of the poor coconuts. I doubt most of these people get to eat meat very often, so as long as they are utilizing the animals as a food source and not torturing them...um...what business is it of animal rights groups or anyone else what their religious beliefs & rituals are?

[Louis VI the Fat]

While the vampire itself is mostly eastern european and modern appearence starts during the 18:th century, the bloodsucking, life-draining, malvevolent, often sexual being is older than that.

Christianity never really jumped on it, but you drink the blood of christ and eat his body....The power of blood is still obviously present in Christianity, even if it seems to be a tendency that Jesus' blood was enough and God don't need any more blood.

Human sacrifices (not uncommon amoungst the different pagan religions) is built on the same principle of blood=life=power.Interesting thoughts and connections. Thanks, Ironside. The Vampire case is interesting, hadn't thought about connecting it with blood sacrifices.


I tried to google for the origin and meaning of sacrificial rituals. Howver, as a religious topic, the first billion hits were useless, leading to pages of pictures of a half-naked spectacled computer geek performing half-imagined 'ancient' blood sacrifices, to Celtic crosses and Blut und Boden mysticism, or the private musings of divorced middle-aged women now married to Jesus.

I do not really know where to start, nor whether it is even anthropology or philosophy or psychology I am looking for. In fact, I have been meaning to find some sort of satisfactory explanations for religion in the first place, but have never really read one.

[gaelic cowboy]

I had seen on some google video before of a talk on how our ability to have a theory of mind so to speak allow for religon.

We can imagine and think and it's like its not in our head I messing it up I have to find the link and post it but Dawkins was on it and a few others.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, I think I posted something on the competitive advantages a religious society has to a non religious one.

We also see patterns where there aren't any, the mechanism that allows us to tell when people are angry or happy has a lot of wiggle room --> :beam: for example.

I think it was xerxes who ordered the sea to be beaten with flails and poked with hot rods after it destroyed his ships. We anthropomophize things.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well, I think I posted something on the competitive advantages a religious society has to a non religious one.In my memory, I labelled that thread as 'religious folk are more happy and stable'.* Must be the one. That was a little gem of a thread.


*Hmm...apparantly your mind is more academically inclined than mine, what with my childish classification. :shame:

[Sarmatian]

I'd say Serbia (and much of the Balkans for that matter) is culturally east because of it's heavy Slavic influences, religion, or Ottoman rule has little to do with it. Greece has very little Slavic Influence, so it falls out of the Eastern Sphere. Although, I'd say it's more a matter of nationalism, than actually meaning anything important.

I'd say Serbia (and the Balkans in general) is western. Depends how you look at it. Eastern for me is China, or India. Western is anything that draws heavily or was influenced heavily by Greco-Roman civilization and Christianity.

It doesn't matter for the topic at hand, though. Obviously in entire Europe and much of the world there is strong symbolism involving blood.

[Samurai Waki]

I'd say Serbia (and the Balkans in general) is western. Depends how you look at it. Eastern for me is China, or India. Western is anything that draws heavily or was influenced heavily by Greco-Roman civilization and Christianity.

It doesn't matter for the topic at hand, though. Obviously in entire Europe and much of the world there is strong symbolism involving blood.

Oh no, no. I meant I considered Serbia a part of Eastern Europe (not Eastern as in China), and I only say that, since it's very much in the Slavic ethno-sphere, Serbia is still very much Western and European. Sorry if I hadn't made that clear.

:hijacked:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'd say Serbia (and the Balkans in general) is western. Depends how you look at it. Eastern for me is China, or India. Western is anything that draws heavily or was influenced heavily by Greco-Roman civilization and Christianity.

It doesn't matter for the topic at hand, though. Obviously in entire Europe and much of the world there is strong symbolism involving blood.

Well, Eastern Empire, Western World.

The West starts at the Bospherus, the line traditionally ran North between the settled peoples and the Nomads.

Anyway, Vampires are just another variation of the aberation/demon in mythology, much like the Werewolf.

[The Stranger]

The Hindus had their sacrificial slaughter earlier this week.

The US gives thanks tonight by sacrificing turkeys.

The Muslims have their Aïd el-Kebir tomorrow. The Great Feast of Sacrifice, to commemorate Ibrahim's willingness to sacrifice his son to God. (Abraham)


Bloody, bloody, bloody. Not a good week to be a cow, turkey or sheep.

Apart from the simple logic of slaughtering animals in the fall, there must be a common reasoning behind sacrifice, behind the thought one needs to shed blood for the gods.

I was a bit surprised to find out the Hindus sacrificied, shed blood to appease their imaginary overlords too. I thought it was an Eastern Mediterranean practice. The Baal cult of the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the Palestians, the Muslims. The Carthaginians had the novelty of their leader sacrificing herself for their sins. Their Phoenician neighbours a bit to the south, the Palestinians, took this gimmick one step further still and had their God sacrifing himself/his son for their sins.

But the Aztec and Hindu gods demand blood too. Something universal then. I don't understand the mechanism.

the symbolism is pretty easy i think. blood symbolises life (sometimes death) to give blood to the gods was to give life to the gods. its a sign of utmost devotion... it happens (happened) pretty much across the world.