The World Turning Against You

[ldb88]

How do you keep from being at war with every single one of your neighbors on VH campaign map difficulty?

Playing as the Averni, I can expect to be at war with Rome and Adeui. I didn't expect I would have to fight Carthage and Lusotana at the same time. Rome sent a diplomat and allied with Lusotana, so the war between Lusotana and Carthage ended. And I guess they were bored, so they came after me :disappointed: So in two turns, my four enemies each sieged a city. There is no way I can push them back or even stop their advance (this is where you push the reset button).

What do I have to do to keep this from happening? Build an army of assassins and kill every single diplomat I see? I considered paying tribute to Lusotana, but I think they still would have attacked me once they had nobody else to fight. I feel like this game is out to get me sometimes :wall:

[Apázlinemjó]

How do you keep from being at war with every single one of your neighbors on VH campaign map difficulty?

Playing as the Averni, I can expect to be at war with Rome and Adeui. I didn't expect I would have to fight Carthage and Lusotana at the same time. Rome sent a diplomat and allied with Lusotana, so the war between Lusotana and Carthage ended. And I guess they were bored, so they came after me :disappointed: So in two turns, my four enemies each sieged a city. There is no way I can push them back or even stop their advance (this is where you push the reset button).

What do I have to do to keep this from happening? Build an army of assassins and kill every single diplomat I see? I considered paying tribute to Lusotana, but I think they still would have attacked me once they had nobody else to fight. I feel like this game is out to get me sometimes :wall:

At Very Hard, you are the enemy of the AI, it's very rare that a neighbour faction doesn't attack you in 5-6 years game wise. If you want to fight less enemies, there are a few options, for example make buffer zones between you and the AI, or try to break the alliances, like giving a border territory to Carthage while "sealing" you away from the Lusos so they will offer you peace and/or attack Carthage. Also as Arverni it's important to take Bibracte(sp?) from the Aedui as fast as you can, because they will train unlimited high-tier units against you in no time.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Your only real chance for not being the enemy of the world is to try to get your enemies pissed at each other. It doesn't always work, but so I've managed to keep the Sauromatae off my back by getting them in a war with Hayasdan. I used spies for that of course. And the Sabeans won't attack as long as their enemies, the Seleucids, hold some nearby territory.

[Ludens]

The A.I. has been programmed to target the player. This makes sense in itself, as the player is the greatest danger to the A.I., but the way it's implemented is stupid. The A.I. will ignore its own security in order to get you, and will make peace with factions that are at war with you.

However, I found that I could put an end to most opportunistic attacks by paying neighbouring factions a small, regular tribute (200 mnai works). Even if they do attack, they are more willing to sign peace afterwards. I also get the impression that extensive use of spies and assassins annoys other factions, even if they don't get caught. I haven't tested this yet, though.

[Grade_A_Beef]

I've tried paying tribute to the Quarthadast as the Seleucids during my campaign. I gave them 10k per turn to help them against their war with the Romans and they still attacked me at Kyrene...

It seems that no matter the difficulty the AI all hate you once you reach a certain level of prosperity (I was raking in 30k a turn despite huge building projects and 5-6 armies with regular infantry and up.)

On the plus side both Hayasdan and Baktria have been very friendly, targeting the nomads as I'm massing troops at their border....

[seienchin]

The A.I. has been programmed to target the player. This makes sense in itself, as the player is the greatest danger to the A.I., but the way it's implemented is stupid. The A.I. will ignore its own security in order to get you, and will make peace with factions that are at war with you.

However, I found that I could put an end to most opportunistic attacks by paying neighbouring factions a small, regular tribute (200 mnai works). Even if they do attack, they are more willing to sign peace afterwards. I also get the impression that extensive use of spies and assassins annoys other factions, even if they don't get caught. I haven't tested this yet, though.
That is only true on VH campain difficulty. Maybe also on Hard, but I never encountered something like that on normal.

[Knight of Heaven]

yes on hard i find diplomacy very anoying as well. nothing works to get a peace. it depends of the AI mood. also when you border a faction even if you are alie with then , they will atack regards that. In my roman campaing i feel im at war with world, my only alies are the ones who i dont have a frontier. even if they were my enemies in afew turns ago.

Not being a neibour is enough. I will play on normal next time to see what is the changes in this.

[Tollheit]

Currently I'm playing Saka on VH, the year is 245 BC. I am at peace with everyone. Pahlava and Sauromatae never betrayed me, Arche Seleukeia and Baktria came begging for peace soon enough.

What I did:
- made sure my neighbors border on each other as well
- turtle after gaining 7 provinces (Dahyu Alanna, Saka Yabgu, Sai Yavuga, Kangha, Dayuan, Xiyu, Dahyu Haomavarga; temporarily possessed Sogdiane but gave it as a gift to the Pahlava when both Baktria and Arche Seleukeia came for it with massive strength)
- no assassinations
- no spies in allied settlements
- offered attacks on common enemies as gifts to allies
- no more than 3 allies
- no unnecessary trade agreements

[Macilrille]

On VH the AI is as mentioned programmed to go berserk at you, the stronger and more succesful you are, the more berserk it seems it goes, even if it is suicidal and you would actually have preferred peace with the tiny neighbour you had no designs on ever.

There is little you can do about it except accept and see it as the depiction of the intense competetion between nations (in the sociological sense of the word). It is worst as Romans AFAIK, perhaps the AS has it as bad.

I have had some small measure of succes by creating a Limes. 1-3 units in forts in a solid line with ZoCs all along the borders and halfstacks+ at fords/bridges as well as backing up the fortified ones with one always being in reach in 1-2 turns. This is of course expensive, but such is life. As Res Publica Romana this kept Sweboz allied to me for 150-ish years before they attacked (there should be pics in my album), despite 100-ish years of common border and 50-ish years of them not having any rebs to deal with really. It has worked less succesfully, but still more so than not doing it, against every faction bordered by Rome as I advanced- and everybody hates the Romans.

With the aforementioned Sweboz it worked sort of OK as well, except the Romans were so beliggerent and expanding N as sual instead of S (another AI problem, even teleporting units to N Africa against the Carties they were at war with and Iberia did not help, Rome went for Gaul and Germany no matter what), so it was less succesful then.

So undecided whether it works or not, but it has worked on one occasion.

Edited to add that the attack the enemy of my enemy never works (only tried it as Roman then gave up on it), they never believe I will, say they do not trust me as I have been known to break my word- which I never do. And if I go ahead and beat their enemies anyway, sometimes saving their behind, they turn on me within ten years. Only thing that works for me is the garrisons.

Oh and ldb88;
Carl Philipp Gottlieb von Clausewitz advises that when beset by enemies on all sides, you stall the majority with small forces, even sacrificing ground, and concentrate all available power on one to defeat him utterly in one stroke, before turning on the others. This is common sense anyway and works both in RL Viking re-enactment, and in EB.

Prussian 18th- 19th century military philosopher, you can hardly get more enmeshed in military thinking than that... anyone concerned with strategy should heed his words.

Try it as best you can, you may be in too dire straits (only pics of the strat situation could tell), but give it a try.

[Leão magno]

The ultimate answer is concious use of FD (force diplomacy mod)

[Knight of Heaven]

Oh and ldb88;
Carl Philipp Gottlieb von Clausewitz advises that when beset by enemies on all sides, you stall the majority with small forces, even sacrificing ground, and concentrate all available power on one to defeat him utterly in one stroke, before turning on the others. This is common sense anyway and works both in RL Viking re-enactment, and in EB.

Prussian 18th- 19th century military philosopher, you can hardly get more enmeshed in military thinking than that... anyone concerned with strategy should heed his words.

Try it as best you can, you may be in too dire straits (only pics of the strat situation could tell), but give it a try.

In game it isnt that i face anihalation, from all enemies, is only that is very anoying do defend your empire from everyone. it is very hard working if i say so.

[Blxz]

In game it isnt that i face anihalation, from all enemies, is only that is very anoying do defend your empire from everyone. it is very hard working if i say so.

You could always do a Fluvius and just wipe out the whole world within a few hundred turns. There is even a quote in EB about states being persuaded into war only to lose. Make that quote true, kill them all.

[SwissBarbar]

The ultimate answer is concious use of FD (force diplomacy mod)

Yes it is. If you can stay fair and realistic and don't use it to lift sieges of your enemies and stuff....

[lionhard]

You could always do a Fluvius and just wipe out the whole world within a few hundred turns. There is even a quote in EB about states being persuaded into war only to lose. Make that quote true, kill them all.



Thats all good but like myself in my roman campaigns on hard and very hard its nice to get some kind of real sense of being back in that time, isnt that why were all playing EB ?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

My only solution is never to play VH campaigns anymore.

[Jebivjetar]

My only solution is never to play VH campaigns anymore.


i agree... VH makes AI annoying as hell. It has nothing to do with more challenging campaign, but with nervous breakdown. but if someone wants to fight 5 battles per turn on VH, good :P

[Knight of Heaven]

Thats all good but like myself in my roman campaigns on hard and very hard its nice to get some kind of real sense of being back in that time, isnt that why were all playing EB ?


Exactly, We want dificulty, and battles, but 3 5 battles per turn, is a litle time comsuming. and when i want to do a historical, or at least playing on my onw pace, i have to do hundreds of battles very similar in the same locations, for instance defending city X, of defending city Y. After a while is a litle anoying. Of course i could do that and destroy then all, but then i wont never seen my marian reforms, or my augustan reforms, and i wont be able to get a chance to play with those units in campaing. Becouse by then i would have conquer most of the known world. it is anoying, i shall see in mediun how the Ai behave. Maybe isnt to passive. luckly.

[Ibrahim]

How do you keep from being at war with every single one of your neighbors on VH campaign map difficulty?

Playing as the Averni, I can expect to be at war with Rome and Adeui. I didn't expect I would have to fight Carthage and Lusotana at the same time. Rome sent a diplomat and allied with Lusotana, so the war between Lusotana and Carthage ended. And I guess they were bored, so they came after me :disappointed: So in two turns, my four enemies each sieged a city. There is no way I can push them back or even stop their advance (this is where you push the reset button).

What do I have to do to keep this from happening? Build an army of assassins and kill every single diplomat I see? I considered paying tribute to Lusotana, but I think they still would have attacked me once they had nobody else to fight. I feel like this game is out to get me sometimes :wall:

try this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=124190), if you can get a fleet. it will (hopefully) deal with the coastal factions (carthage, Rome). if you don't have it, just do same, just by land.

but yes, VH campaign is a nightmare to fight-I use it all the time. it kinda forces me to think in "creative" ways, and impliment some odd strategies.

[alexanderthegreater]

When surrounded, attack in all directions.
thats what im doing right now in my Macedonia campaign, H/M, both seleucids, ptollies, romans, and epirots declared war I just ignore rebel settlements and start attacking and pillaging, dont starve cities to death assault them, ignore enemy fullstacks or try to evade/delay them, and take cities by blitz.

Ive always liked how in Vanilla the advisor tells you to deal with allies first, then get to enemy armies, and then take cities. IMO thats utter nonsense if you want victory against superior forces wage a mobile war move your armies around enemy land in blitz speed taking cities where you go. He cant defend everywhere, or hell be weak everywhere.

Dance like a butterfly, sting like a bee? This would work well with HA armies of course but I do it in the west with assault infantry, think about units like caetrati, pelatastai, anything cheap fast and that hits hard. Attacking from the sea is great as well as your enemy cant possibly defend all his coastal settlements.

In Romani campaign i always try to completely conquer the Sweboz no matter how many fullstacks they have, use their woods to your own advantage, to hide your forces while on the march. This way you can go from city to city undetected without him being able to react. I also just place my main force near one of their cities on a riverbed or something, so they move their forces over their to defend the threat of an attack. Then i just attack with small forces from a different front at lightning speed.

[Macilrille]

When surrounded, attack in all directions [....]

This implies he has enough money for loads of armies. RL and in EB that is rarely the case, Clausewitz is more realistic. The one who attacks everywhere will be depleted and loose.

I am a great admirer of the old prussian, but he actually just speaks sense.

[ldb88]

Guys (and gals if any play EB), I just abandoned that campaign. Thank you for all of the advice, but I think I was just way too outnumbered. I could only afford two or three full stacks. On M battle difficulty, I may have been able to pull it off, but I prefer a challenge :wink: and it just cannot be done on VH.

Maybe I could have held them off for awhile by holding the bridge at Massalia with one army and the other holding off Lusotana and Carthage, but I never would have been able to advance on either front. And if Adeui sent an army to my capital (Viennos I think), I wouldn't be able to stop it. I still have the save, so if I start feeling really masochistic I'll try something.

So again, thanks for the advice. I might try some of it if a similar situation comes up.

[vartan]

Guys (and gals if any play EB), I just abandoned that campaign. Thank you for all of the advice, but I think I was just way too outnumbered. I could only afford two or three full stacks. On M battle difficulty, I may have been able to pull it off, but I prefer a challenge :wink: and it just cannot be done on VH.

Maybe I could have held them off for awhile by holding the bridge at Massalia with one army and the other holding off Lusotana and Carthage, but I never would have been able to advance on either front. And if Adeui sent an army to my capital (Viennos I think), I wouldn't be able to stop it. I still have the save, so if I start feeling really masochistic I'll try something.

So again, thanks for the advice. I might try some of it if a similar situation comes up.

What if any of the rest of us feel maso? Would you care to share? :skull: