Ladies And Gentlemen!!!!!!

[JANOSIK007]

I'm coming to you with breakin new information.
There have been new finds suggesting that Slavs were inhabitors of central Europe long before Celts and Germans. Also the new finds state that Danubian Slavs had a devloped culture and writing long before Summerians did.

Now, probably you are going to think I'm some kind of an idiot, but this is a new information to me as well.

Just go ahead and do some research on your own about the ancient Slavs. Or you can try to look for Venedi people or Veneds or Venetti.

I am sure that this breaking new info desereves to be futher researched.

Just recently I wanted to find new information on Slavs on the web and what I have discovered even proves me wrong.

Slavs, or Venetti, even created their own country around Italian peninsula in times of Etruria being the dominant power over there. They've also given rise to the city of Venice. Do you see the resemblence ( Venetti=Venice ).

Anyways, Find out for yourself and please share here with the rest of the world. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Hakonarson]

Except that the Venetti were a sea faring tribe from roughly modern day Normandy or Brittany that were subjugated by Casear, and Venice was actually founded by refuges from the Huns fleeing westwards in 452.......or according to Legend on St Mrks Day, april 25, 421 by Romans fleeing Goths.

There does appear to have ben a small gallic tribe also called Veneti there - teh area was known as Veneto, but it was no great shakes and pretty easily conquered by Rome in the 3rd century BC.

Sigh - ppl trying to claim vast civilisations for their forefathers are so tedious.

[Heraclius]

Okay JANOS I've already replied to your other post in the Colosseum so I'll just cut and paste what and I sadi as well as the website you gave me.

http://www.panslavia.com/history/index.html

JANOS, JANOS, JANOS, tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't mean to be patronizing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif but you must take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt (meaning don't trust everything you see). Notice the website panslavia.com. The pan-slavic movement seeked and still does to unite all slavs into one nation. Among other things these guys assassinated Franz Ferdinand and so arguably brought on world war one. They wish to make the case for Slavic unity using political, economic and historical arguments. I mean seriously read the article. Oh, yes, they claim, the brave slavic people of the Danube were savaged by "primitive German and Hungarian nomadic hunters". This is bad enough but the claim to have invented writing and "known it for thousands of years before the Sumerians" and brought it to them is downright ridiculous. I hope this is meant as a joke, right, JANOS? You know something we can all have a good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif laugh about, right? Right?

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ Feb. 27 2003,19:31)]Except that the Venetti were a sea faring tribe from roughly modern day Normandy or Brittany that were subjugated by Casear, and Venice was actually founded by refuges from the Huns fleeing westwards in 452.......or according to Legend on St Mrks Day, april 25, 421 by Romans fleeing Goths.

There does appear to have ben a small gallic tribe also called Veneti there - teh area was known as Veneto, but it was no great shakes and pretty easily conquered by Rome in the 3rd century BC.

Sigh - ppl trying to claim vast civilisations for their forefathers are so tedious.
So how come I'm constantly hearing "Venetti" form most of as reffering to Slavs?

The map that I found shows Venetti In 200 B.C.

I don't know how to post map so just check out this site and everything that's on it especially the Alphbet.

http://www.thezaurus.com/sloveniana/venetic_culture.htm

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Feb. 27 2003,20:10)]Okay JANOS I've already replied to your other post in the Colosseum so I'll just cut and paste what and I sadi as well as the website you gave me.

http://www.panslavia.com/history/index.html

JANOS, JANOS, JANOS, tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't mean to be patronizing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif but you must take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt (meaning don't trust everything you see). Notice the website panslavia.com. The pan-slavic movement seeked and still does to unite all slavs into one nation. Among other things these guys assassinated Franz Ferdinand and so arguably brought on world war one. They wish to make the case for Slavic unity using political, economic and historical arguments. I mean seriously read the article. Oh, yes, they claim, the brave slavic people of the Danube were savaged by "primitive German and Hungarian nomadic hunters". This is bad enough but the claim to have invented writing and "known it for thousands of years before the Sumerians" and brought it to them is downright ridiculous. I hope this is meant as a joke, right, JANOS? You know something we can all have a good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif laugh about, right? Right?
It doesn't say that they brought the writing to them, but there has been an old writing discovered in the area.

I do admit that the site sounds somewhat funny.

But this isn't the only site than I've found.

I will try to find more info and get back to you as soon as possible.

[JANOSIK007]

Some linguist studing the Veneti suggest that their language can be traced to Slavic. M. Bor sais that the metal tablets found in Slovenia have writing of a Slavic origin.

I just want to know if this is true form somebody who has heard about it.

[Rosacrux]

Well, there is this guy (Misir? Mesir? I don't remember the name right now...) who is a renowned Archeologist in Turkey and he claims that the Etruscan ( ) and Sumerian ( ) were actually ...Turks. He also managed (??) to trace the origins of the (not deciphered yet) language of Etruscans to proto-turkic, as he did with Sanskrit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Additionaly, he claims that he has found traces of a "glorious Turkic civilization" in the fourth BC millenia http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

So, everything "Pan" (Pan-slavic, Pan-turkic, pan-whatever) should not only be taken with a grain (or... a pint) of salt, but with a healthy dose of humour and patience too.

When someone is determined to find "proof" that his people have been around from when time began, he will come up with some "proof". No matter how abstract, or obviously fabricated that "evidence" is, and no matter how downward stupid his claims are.

Janos, the Slavs have a rich tradition, a distinct culture and definite common (more or less) ancestry. All Slavs, and we know it. As we know that their "history" as a significant historical factor begins with the first AD centuries. Also, we know that current Slavs are a mixture of people (as we all are) and that they have been separated for too long to be "one people".

Stick to that, be proud of your ancestry and don't follow people who only want to make some political statements by finding "evidence" that suits them.

[Heraclius]

Amen Rosacrux. after all look what happened to poor Mr. Venizelos after he tried pan-hellenism, or as it is more commonly known the Great Idea. Pan-anything movements are most often super-nationalist ideas that end up causing anywhere from thousands to millions of deaths. WHat was the death count of WWI actually?

[JANOSIK007]

At least WW1 was good for one thing: Imperialism in Europe ended and new countries were created.

Although this lasted only for about two decades when another opressor terrorized Europe once again.

[71-hour Ahmed]

The slavs came from the east, I seem to recall, in what is the Caucausus, then spread west across eastern europe in the 1st cent. AD onwards.

So I don't think they would be in Italy at that time.Their lands were north of the romans,south of the finns, east of the goths, west of the huns (then conquered).

had they united back then and not pissed off the romans (who arranged for their conquest) they could have been quite a civ...

[hrvojej]

Ah yes, and as far as I know, the Croats are not actually Slavs, but rather an Arian tribe descended directly from Iran. They've found plenty of evidence supporting that, as well as plenty of evidence of funding that the former nationalist government gave to those lovely studious people. From taxpayers' money, of course........
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Hakonarson]

A lot of modern sites on eth history of the Croats say they possibly had an aristocricay of Iranian descent, but these were likely few in number and had been completely absorbed by the time the Croats (and Serbs) appeared in Europe around the 6th centurey AD.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

I was talking to an Iranian the other evening.

He said he was "Persian" so I said "look, you are all arabs."

He said that the Iranian people did not want to be converted to muslim and that they are not really arabs. Since we were pounding Ales at the time, I don't really recall any other reasoning. He was just adamant about the fact that he was Persian.

So, Iranians are Persian: Here is a link.

http://www.geocities.com/gay_persia/body_persians.html

~BW

[Hakonarson]

The Persians have never been Arabs, and both would bridle at being so compared - like the French and spanish http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

And of course a great many peoples didn't want to be whatever religon most of them are now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[LordMonarch]

Considering Iran is the Iranians word for Persia I am not too surprised they are Persians.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[rasoforos]

the iranians are persians and not arabs , thats a fact.

Now to the main topic : it gets tiresome after the 10 ' the slabs were in Europe in BC times ' thread Janicos ...
As Rosacrux said practically every nation with what i call 'historical inferiority complex' tries to prove that they created writing , they build the first cities , and that this obscure 'X' civilisation is their ancestors , this is mostly done by nations with history that does not span to BC times. I personally find it really funny. Especially the web-sites claim that the slavs invented writing was hillarious , the Byzantines Cyril and Methodius would have laughed their asses out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JANOSIK007]

Slavs were in Europe in B.C. times.

They were at the banks of Black sea. Around Baltic Sea too.

Theey are on of the oldest residents in Europe.

[JANOSIK007]

Slavs were in Europe in B.C. times.

They lived on the banks of Black Sea as well as Baltic sea.

They are one of the oldest residents in Europe.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Mar. 05 2003,10:41)]Slavs were in Europe in B.C. times.

They lived on the banks of Black Sea as well as Baltic sea.

They are one of the oldest residents in Europe.
I don't mean to provoke you, Janosik, but during my research it seemed that most people referred to the early Slavic tribes living in west/central Russia, north of the black sea but well away from the Baltic. The term Slav itself is quite confusing. Now most arhcaeologists agree that the "Slavs" emerged from the various cultures that surrounded them, migrated throughout eastern europe, nobody is quite sure when, and taking advantage of the decline of their Ostrogothic, Hunnish or Avar rulers made their first independent appearance on the world stage in the sixth century AD. THe real question, I think, is what is a Slav? Just like the Turkic peoples, people who call themselves Slavic can have quite different languages and cultures from other Slavs. Yes, the real question is what is a Slav?

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Mar. 05 2003,22:12)]I don't mean to provoke you, Janosik, but during my research it seemed that most people referred to the early Slavic tribes living in west/central Russia, north of the black sea but well away from the Baltic. The term Slav itself is quite confusing. Now most arhcaeologists agree that the "Slavs" emerged from the various cultures that surrounded them, migrated throughout eastern europe, nobody is quite sure when, and taking advantage of the decline of their Ostrogothic, Hunnish or Avar rulers made their first independent appearance on the world stage in the sixth century AD. THe real question, I think, is what is a Slav? Just like the Turkic peoples, people who call themselves Slavic can have quite different languages and cultures from other Slavs. Yes, the real question is what is a Slav?
From what I've read, it appears that when the emigration of Indo-European tribes began, after the last Ice-Age, most of them moved into Europe. The first land of Europe to get settled by them was in fact what later became as Slavic territory. These tribes have settled all over Europe. Keep in mind that at that time there were little differentiation amongst them. They could easilly understand each other. As the migration stopped they started to differentiate. They've started to emerge as seperate cultures.

At the same time Slavs started to emerge. So clearly Indo-Europeans moved through the area and the ones that stayed in it formed as Slavs.

These are very complex migrations. I am sure there are different theories, but this seems to be the most accepted one.

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ Mar. 05 2003,09:45)]As Rosacrux said practically every nation with what i call 'historical inferiority complex' tries to prove that they created writing , they build the first cities , and that this obscure 'X' civilisation is their ancestors , this is mostly done by nations with history that does not span to BC times.
You mean, like Mormons? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Stefan the Berserker]

Sorry, this weren't Slavs it were Megalith. The Megalith build a totally indeependent Group from Celts, Germanics and Slavs.

The Megalith Cultures who surrvived are the Finns, Estonians, Lithunians and Samojens.

The three other people developed from them after the Aryans, a Indogermanic Group with Origin in Persia invaded Europe.

But the Slavs are indeed older: They developed from Megaliths mixing up with Aryan Invaders that went on conquest Prior to the 1800 B.C. "Rush". These are at least more than 500 years

Anyway what you say about their Culture is true: Megalith used Script as fast as any other culture. The Oldest proves for Runic scripts have been found on Stones in France. That means Megalith might developed a script prior to the Runes/Ogham which has been developed further by their decendant Cultures... Like today's Arab script is relative to the Persian and Roman Script to the Greek scripts... This includes Slavs writing faster than any other central European culture http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

erm the iranians are not arabs....also Iran is not "Persian" in their native language,Fares(note:FAA-RES)is "persian" in their native language,and their native language is known as Fareci(note:FAA-RE-SEE).

[Stefan the Berserker]

I said that Arab script is based on persian script, Iranians and Arabs arn't persian of course. But unlike the Romans in western Europe or acient Chinese in Asia, their Cultural threads have been "absorbed" by the people living in the region after them...