So I found something useful for once.

[Skullheadhq]

I read a MedII modding tutorial, and this might be interesting and useful perhaps, it's about merging two factions mid-campaign...



The second part of the Kalmar Union script is the merging of the Danish & Norwegian factions or, more accurately, the acquisition of the Norwegian faction by the Danish.

This first one allows you to change a faction's icon in the middle of a campaign as part of the campaign script.


Merging two factions (having one faction acquire another) part-way through a campaign

The command is (as used in the Kalmar Union script):



;turn over norways assets to denmark
give_everything_to_faction norway denmark false


The first faction is the target faction, the second faction is the acquiring faction. Not sure what the true/false parameter is.


And so, here is a test script I used:



monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType teutonic_order
and I_TurnNumber = 1


give_everything_to_faction mongols teutonic_order false


terminate_monitor

end_monitor




Turn 1 - Teutons start with original territory
https://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4431/teutonsacquiremongols1da8.th.jpg (https://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teutonsacquiremongols1da8.jpg)


Turn 2 - Teutons acquire Mongol territory - Mongol family members become Teuton generals
https://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6152/teutonsacquiremongols2jz5.th.jpg (https://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teutonsacquiremongols2jz5.jpg)



What use might it be?

A few different thoughts on this. The first is that medieval kings gained territory in more ways that outright conquest, this command could be used to represent the merging of crowns, perhaps through inheritance, perhaps through being offered (as the crown of the Sicily was by the pope), through purchase or indeed any other criteria that could be scripted. The other is that this could be an alternative to the repetative process of having to annihilate factions down to their last stronghold. If a faction has been beaten back to a single territory if it has its faction leader killed, then maybe they might be prepared to surrender to their aggressors - or alternatively they might try to merge with another neighbouring faction in the knowledge that their aggressors may back off.

[seienchin]

I would love to see pergamon and KH join into the roman empire peacefully :book:

[HunGeneral]

Could work nicely if say Makedonia could take over epeiros if they have a royal marriage with Phyrrus's family and all his descendents (Molossons - although I know this means a tribe not actually a family) were to .... pass away .... out of different causes...

It could maybe work the other way around too, but I don't know if this script could be tied to FM's at all...:juggle2:

[Rahwana]

KH -> Pan Hellenic Reform
Useful after they beaten Epeiros, Makedonia, and Pergamon ... they could be roleplaying offering them membership in the League.... quite realistic

AS / Makedon / Ptolies -> Alexandrian Empire Reform
Yeah... if the other two could be "persuaded"....... you could bring back Alexander's Empire too

Aedui / Avernii / Casse -> United Celt Reform
Stop our difference brothers! and let us become one big and happy Celtai family... oh yes, hapiness can be brought here with a lot of beers and women!

[satalexton]

and the romaioktonoi reform: All factions set aside their petty differences, to destory the One True Barbaroi

[ziegenpeter]

But can you script this for several factions? Otherwise I guess the EB team won't use it for balancing reasons.

[antisocialmunky]

and the romaioktonoi reform: All factions set aside their petty differences, to destory the One True Barbaroi

You know, just because I made a joking trait post doesn't mean you should drag that stuff back into the forum if you remember what happened last time.

@Sonic, I don't think the reunificiation of Alexander's empire would be a good candidate. I doubt there would be any way to persuade those factions to get together. The only candidate in the East might be reunification of the Seleucid Empire.

[ziegenpeter]

So that would be Seleukids, Pontos, Baktria, Hay? Pergamon?

[Ludens]

Before we get run away with the possibilities, it is be important to investigate the limitations. How many of such "unions" can one faction have? Is it only one-sided (i.e. the Teutons get control over the Mongols but not visa versa) or does it work both ways? Does it put restrictions on faction-specific traits and units?

[Ca Putt]

I would think it's the other way around: Bactrians, Parthians etc rebell against Seleukid rule thus they fight until the last Rebel City/FM whereas the Successors would be united if all cities/FMs yield to one Faction leader. if all Ptolemaoi FMs/Cities find the AS Faction leader more suited than the own and would not value loyality too much they would probably join the cause of the AS.

Pan Hellenic League :D that's exactly what I'm playing in my KH campaign tho it is a bit annoying to FD Macedonia and Epeiros over and over again after they backstabbed me and I took them one provine and a lot of soldiers. and it would be cool if Hellenic cities would join my cause if under severde destress and not afterwords :/ - Syracus down to 5 men garrison (on huge) does not want to be bribed by me :(((((

[Skullheadhq]

So with no heirs, they could join your faction as well :)


Yup :yes:



I was actually a bit wrong on that, if you meant true, born as baby, children. If he hasn't got children who haven't come of age yet coded for him in descr_strat, and faction expands so game starts wanting to give it more generals, he's likely to end up with adopted generals filling the slots, especially if its an AI controlled faction.


the other thing to look at would be to use an ancillary derived from the inherited traits, which is passed to real son and heirs.... you can quite easily code monitors to use

and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Im_a_heir_anc true

checking for faction not having a trait is messier as there isn't a FactionwideTraitExists command, though you could probably get round it with counters

[Cute Wolf]

I would think it's the other way around: Bactrians, Parthians etc rebell against Seleukid rule thus they fight until the last Rebel City/FM whereas the Successors would be united if all cities/FMs yield to one Faction leader. if all Ptolemaoi FMs/Cities find the AS Faction leader more suited than the own and would not value loyality too much they would probably join the cause of the AS.

Pan Hellenic League :D that's exactly what I'm playing in my KH campaign tho it is a bit annoying to FD Macedonia and Epeiros over and over again after they backstabbed me and I took them one provine and a lot of soldiers. and it would be cool if Hellenic cities would join my cause if under severde destress and not afterwords :/ - Syracus down to 5 men garrison (on huge) does not want to be bribed by me :(((((

Yeah, given the true nature about Koinon Hellenon, I predict they will present them with league membership if some of the Hellenic factions are down. Quite realistic if the condition wasn't the elimination of their leader, but giving a big sums of money :beam: and in the announcement box, it will be written as "commitment to join the cause, and rebuild the ruins of war"...

Maybe KH could absorb Makedonia, Syrakousai, Pergamon, and Epeiros to made their Pan Hellenic league bigger....

According to the scripting codes, yes... this was one way reunification, so we couldn't hope the EB team will include them on their official relases, but maybe some of us will made simple submod for KH about it (because unification is largely pointless if you have much unit difference and untrainable units, they will be disbanded and leave you with several empty cities, so the EDB and EDU must be altered significantly - giving KH all the unit that Epeiros, Makedon, Syrakousai, and Pergamon has, as well as their training grounds)

------------------

Now about the celts, it will be simpler if the condition are Marriage alliance (has seen it proposed on some Kingdom's mod that still on progress), means if an Aedui Princess can marry Avernii Faction leader / heir, and that guy die childless.... Another faction will become theirs... Well, emulating the old MTW mechanics eh? :yes: Well, women are always men's biggest weakness..... :clown:

[Macilrille]

and the romaioktonoi reform: All factions set aside their petty differences, to destory the One True Barbaroi

*Sighs and goes to put Sata back on ignore* some people just will not grow up...

Sorry Ludens for sending a jab Sata's way he cannot reply to in kind, and yes you will warn me, but I did unignore him in the naive belief that he had learned his lesson. guess I am naive as well... I held that belief for a week and let one other romaioktonoi-comment pass as "old-habits-die-hard"/"forgive-and-forget", but two in a week...

[Darius]

So are we going back to having anti-roman hate-rallies or is this just an isolated outburst?

[HunGeneral]

So are we going back to having anti-roman hate-rallies or is this just an isolated outburst?

Just the later if you ask me.

[Cute Wolf]

Well, back to topic now...

After opening and modifying some "unification script" at least they didn't use any extra faction slots as long as there was no new "united" faction (so that wasn't unification, but annexation / absorbed faction)), and at least now I confirm, even without same unit, their FMs and generals will be converted to your own General Unit... but then, unification without immediate garrison is means asking for a massive revolt. Maybe we could do something to Pan Hellenic reform, and Pan Celtic Reform...

[Macilrille]

If I recall correctly the one time I did do the Kalmar Union, you get units and Generals in their cities already as their units as well as yours convert to the new ones. Sweden became part of Denmark-Norway and Denmark-Norway got some new units to build and a new flag. Though I do not think the latter very historical.

[Ca Putt]

so just so I get this right(as I have not played M2TW to that extent): when you merge your units get reformed and you get the ole units of faction B) generals are standardised as well?
for a pan hellenic League it would be probable if the KH would be able to train units like Hetairoi and Pezhetairoi additionaly to the KH rooster. I always feel silly when I hold Macedonia and am still unable to train Phalangitai.

[antisocialmunky]

Yeah, the more I think about this the more I lvoe the idea of the KH being able to Unite Magna Grecia, Ionia, and the Black Sea Greeks.

[-42-]

I'm not if this has been mentioned, but this is used to represent the alliance of Denmark/Norway with the Union of Kalmar faction, the way to achieve this in the game was to capture certain Norwegian provinces, then kill the faction leader. Once you had the union, you got several extra provinces, as well as a few new units.

[machinor]

One has to take into account the new system of central control and control of the hinterland. So maybe in some cases, the central administration would join another faction but the hinterland would revolt etc. Could be quite interesting to explore the possibilities.

[Rahwana]

Yeah... maybe KH must capture Pella, Ambrakia, Pergamon, and Syrakousai?

[Cute Wolf]

I'm not if this has been mentioned, but this is used to represent the alliance of Denmark/Norway with the Union of Kalmar faction, the way to achieve this in the game was to capture certain Norwegian provinces, then kill the faction leader. Once you had the union, you got several extra provinces, as well as a few new units.

They are exist as script condition's trigger to unification... albeit they could be changed to capture some certain cities, and rather than kill their FL, you could script to "accept with clicking show me how" and your money got -20000, that was more realistic, because if the FL was die, they are de facto just empty puppets in the koinon's forum, but to give real "hellenic league" feelings, you can change that condition to just mere payment...

[antisocialmunky]

Yeah... maybe KH must capture Pella, Ambrakia, Pergamon, and Syrakousai?

Aren't the Western Balkan peoples usually considered not as pretty much pseudo Greek like the Macedonians by the Southern Greeks?

I would support having them be able to capture the major colony cities such as Syracuse, Tarantium, Athens, Corinth, Sparta, Krete, Rhodes, Pergamon, and the two other small Aegean Islands for a basic union.

You might want to include another one for capturing the Black Sea colonies as well as the African, and Western European ones.

[Ludens]

So are we going back to having anti-roman hate-rallies or is this just an isolated outburst?

There won't be any romaioktonoi rallies on my watch.

I don't mind single comments about hating the Romans: the humour has worn thin by now, but it's not my job to decide what's funny. This, however, was just spamming.

BTW: we have a "report post" button for such things. Feel free to use it.

[Skullheadhq]

I thought it was just suggestion for a minimod Sata made there, but anyways, are there any hardcoded limits for those 'unions'?

[Cute Wolf]

I thought it was just suggestion for a minimod Sata made there, but anyways, are there any hardcoded limits for those 'unions'?

Yeah, actually those Romaioktonoi reform are quite Impossible... I remember to read in TWC that someone allready test how much faction can be united, and they got CTD when reach the 7th or 8th factions, but 3 or 4 factions works fine... Maybe we should focus our "minimod" in the union of factions with similar cultures, such as pan-Hellenic (KH), or pan-Celtic (Aedui), that as a role, the unifying potential factions most likely are "federation type" because it was more logic anyway to enter the union as equals, than become lower subjects of a foreign king.

[Macilrille]

I dunno, the Swedes were definately the junior partner in that relationship. Which eventually made them rebel and the Union dissolve. Their royal family was dead, the somewhat related Meckelnburgers they had called in to rule instead eventually proved tyrants, so the Swedish high nobility almost begged Margrete I "of Denmark" (officially women could not rule then, but I do not think we have had many rulers of such competence before or after her and rule she did) to support them and become their sovereign. She eventually cememnted this with the Union of Kalmar. Too bad it did not last, had the Danish rule been more lenient the Union might still be around...

*Mecklenburgers not Meckelnburgers

[Skullheadhq]

An Ptolemy Annexion by the Seleucids with some counters for their main cities would be fun, and if North Africa fell from the Karthadastei, would the Spanish Provinces come to their aid with an invasion?

[Rahwana]

Actually, I think more about Roman subduing reform, when Makedonia, Aedui, and Pergamon can be incorporated "rather peacefully", because aedui provide roman allies in the end, Makedonia was humbled and taken as client kingdom, and Pergamon are absorbed ally.

[Macilrille]

Why Mac amd Aedui? They were incorperated everything but peacefully but instead through war.

Pergamon, That city in N Africa, Massilia and Rhodos either joined the Roman Empire (were bequethed) or became allies that was slowly incorporated. Syracouse might have as well had the son followed the Old man's footsteps, but he did not so they changed sides and were taken by the usual Roman appliance of force. There are others I think, but I am a bit under the weather and thus forgetful, so look in my Roman Timeline.

In any case, unification should be extremely rare. IMO it should only happen if all FMs die or some such.

[Skullheadhq]

In any case, unification should be extremely rare. IMO it should only happen if all FMs die or some such.

assasin...ready! :laugh4:
I'll send forth my assasins to conquer the world :)

[antisocialmunky]

Its really highly dependent actually. I wouldn't put it in except for factions in 272 especially for the Romans since they usually allied with the weaker side to womp the stronger side and then client the weaker side.