Rosacrux
04-14-2003, 15:33
The appearance of a thread devoted to the plebes of Rome, intrigued me to point out some conclusions of mine, and inviting the historical lot of the bORG to a promising discussion:
A plebe vs a politis
The plebes
The plebes are the non-patrician and non-slaves population of Rome. The bulk of it's citizen. Their political power is quite smaller than their number, though. Their participation in the public issues of Rome was usually either as a mob, or as a "weight" that would shift the power to the one or other patrician.
The way I see it, the plebe is a compromise between a vassal and a free citizen. As the vassal, a plebe had not much to say in the political matters and could not be elected in public offices. But as the free citizen, the plebe could voice his concearns (even though not individually) and did not directly serve anyone besides himself (unlike the vassal). The Roman social systems works similarily as a compromise between democracy and monarchy: That is what the Roman oligarchy is.
A plebe does not rule the state he is living in. He is excericising his power by supporting the one or the other ruling faction, while carrying on with his life. Politics is for the Plebe just another way of "having fun", or gaining more material profits.
The polites
Polites are the free citizen of the Greek city states. Unlike their counterparts in Rome, the Greek citizen did not only take part in the public affairs, but decided about each and every state issue. A large number of standing bodies with a quite large portion of the population of any given City State taking part into, ensured that the people actually ruled themselves, and didn't let anyone do it on their behalf. Every free citizen of Athens could be elected in any public office (theoretically and - unlike what we experience nowadayw - practically).
That promoted social and individual responsibility, individuality and political (critical) thinking. The politis was not satisfied with having others to deal with the state affairs and issues on his behalf, but actually took that responsibility upon him.
A politis wishes to energetically participate in the decision making and wants to be heard in the public bodies, not as just another voice in the crowd, but as an individual. A politis likes to take part in politics and considers it a vital part of his life. The public affairs are actually a part of his everyday life.
So, what do you think? Which one is the model for todays citizen of the Western democratic (more or less) regimes? Is there a way to get back to the politis status in the modern world, or is the place to crowded? Could people nowadays become polites or they are too well established in their plebian status?
A plebe vs a politis
The plebes
The plebes are the non-patrician and non-slaves population of Rome. The bulk of it's citizen. Their political power is quite smaller than their number, though. Their participation in the public issues of Rome was usually either as a mob, or as a "weight" that would shift the power to the one or other patrician.
The way I see it, the plebe is a compromise between a vassal and a free citizen. As the vassal, a plebe had not much to say in the political matters and could not be elected in public offices. But as the free citizen, the plebe could voice his concearns (even though not individually) and did not directly serve anyone besides himself (unlike the vassal). The Roman social systems works similarily as a compromise between democracy and monarchy: That is what the Roman oligarchy is.
A plebe does not rule the state he is living in. He is excericising his power by supporting the one or the other ruling faction, while carrying on with his life. Politics is for the Plebe just another way of "having fun", or gaining more material profits.
The polites
Polites are the free citizen of the Greek city states. Unlike their counterparts in Rome, the Greek citizen did not only take part in the public affairs, but decided about each and every state issue. A large number of standing bodies with a quite large portion of the population of any given City State taking part into, ensured that the people actually ruled themselves, and didn't let anyone do it on their behalf. Every free citizen of Athens could be elected in any public office (theoretically and - unlike what we experience nowadayw - practically).
That promoted social and individual responsibility, individuality and political (critical) thinking. The politis was not satisfied with having others to deal with the state affairs and issues on his behalf, but actually took that responsibility upon him.
A politis wishes to energetically participate in the decision making and wants to be heard in the public bodies, not as just another voice in the crowd, but as an individual. A politis likes to take part in politics and considers it a vital part of his life. The public affairs are actually a part of his everyday life.
So, what do you think? Which one is the model for todays citizen of the Western democratic (more or less) regimes? Is there a way to get back to the politis status in the modern world, or is the place to crowded? Could people nowadays become polites or they are too well established in their plebian status?