View Full Version : The Sweboz
Unferth of Gergovia
12-13-2009, 19:37
Hey there...I havent heard much topic on it...are there any other Sweboz fanatics out there? I love the Sweboz...there generals bodyguard is almost invincible and the Slagonz Club Infantry stop every Principe and Triarii in there path yet no one ever talks about them. I would love to hear some other peoples pros and cons on them and any useful strategies I havent come across yet.:2thumbsup:
Macilrille
12-13-2009, 19:42
Search a bit, there are lots of Sweboz fans and tactics. I am one, but the largest one must be Duguntz though he has not been around for a while.
athanaric
12-13-2009, 20:42
I'm preparing a huge Swêboz guide, including description of every native and expansion unit.
Unferth of Gergovia
12-13-2009, 21:01
Love to see it when your done... I cant get the reforms I dont know if its a bug or what...I love the slagonz club unit...they are the best to use against the romani
Hey fellow Sweboz fan!
i'm glad to have you as a brother in arm! Yeah, it's been a while since i came, studies and concert take a lot of time! Yes, the slogonez are the nightmare of any armoured opponent, I even beated (in MP) Hetairoi body guard. The secret? in the open, Sweboz are strong... but only strong... in the forest, they become invincible! use forest and ambush a lot, place your bodyguard on the center of the line, first line. They hold their ground as long as you want, even against cav, as they also carry spears. Use also your naked fanatics, they scare the crap out of everything, but engage them in combat as late as possible, not at all if possible, keep them right behind your fighting line, in support. Spring ambushes in the woods, as every single units of the sweboz have high charge ratio, the moral effect of a succesfull ''sprigning on the ennemy'' make them rout almost on touch. once, I made rout 2 units of triarii at the same time. I had my black naked dude hiding in woods and archers that attrected them in the foreast, then from the back, i threw some slogonez to cruch their armour and as thei were turning back, BANG , i charged with the naked men. .. routed instently. send your Juguntiz to pursue fleeing opponants, as they run fast and have a better stamina than many units in the game.
When you position your troup for a battle in the forest (when you're defending) try to place your unit organized ''randomly'' . I wanna say, not too far from each other so if one ambush fail, they can receive support, but not too close neither, so you can spring several ''surpise attack'' in one single battle. Example : one unit of principes or whatever attacks your boduguard who can't hide, well, you jump on their back with whatever close... in general (not always, but most of the time) that is sufficient to make them rout, or fight far less effectivly due to the moral effect. But if they rout soon, that means that they can rally soon, that's why you must send pursuer at them (that you placed on the verge of the forest, if you can afford to spend units for that in the battle!) The effect is huge, and as you'll be fighting often in disadventage (regarding the sheer number) you'll have to take full adventage of surprise attack. and in a battle, hiding many units at different places instead of in one or two line is the best way to spring many succesfull ambushes, as you can come from every different side.
Oh, and, appart from archer, TURN OFF auto-fire for all units, as they'll ruin the surprise! fire your missile when the ennemy is close enough, so you disrupt their formations, you scare the crap out of them... and you beat them :2thumbsup: .
So the master word in Sweboz tactics is : fight dirty! deceive your ennemy!
Well, i hoped it helped you, give me some news of your conquest if it did! this is my way of fighting, maybe it's not suited for everyone, so i do not clam it is the best! just my personal favourite!
ziegenpeter
12-15-2009, 15:26
Great post and this
So the master word in Sweboz tactics is : fight dirty! deceive your ennemy!
sums it up best!
If you are not in the forest, a bit cavalry can help. Although maybe the weakest faction in cav termes, you can use them with some effect. And if it's only getting slaughtered by other cav, to keep them away from your infantry. No, for real: Chase down archers and slingers with them, because they can be devastating for your lightly armored troops.
I tend to use less FMs as troops (somtimes I had them all in one army) but you can still have 2 or 3 in an army, especially your King and his heir. Battle=Glory=Power!
There was a nice role play thread around for the sweboz. Just search,
Great post and this sums it up best!
If you are not in the forest, a bit cavalry can help. Although maybe the weakest faction in cav termes, you can use them with some effect. And if it's only getting slaughtered by other cav, to keep them away from your infantry. No, for real: Chase down archers and slingers with them, because they can be devastating for your lightly armored troops.
I tend to use less FMs as troops (somtimes I had them all in one army) but you can still have 2 or 3 in an army, especially your King and his heir. Battle=Glory=Power!
There was a nice role play thread around for the sweboz. Just search,
Yeah, that's right!
I forgot to mention the cav! it's true, they're no where near the nomads or hellenic FMs, but I assure you, they're very good light cav. They've much better than their celtic counterpart, and of corse, a charge of cav in the rear is always welcome when possible! oh and an addition to the mini-guide for ambushes... your archers are the crappiest of all the game. Point. But they're still very usefull. Fire-arrows always makes marvels on an ennemy already engaged somewhere else! It is a mistake to understimate them. how many units have I saved vith tghose poor archers, just by two or three volley in the back of a stronger ennemy! Arrows of fire = arrows of fear!
I also tend to use my FM as heavy infantry. for practical reason, but as ziegenpeter rightly mentioned, as roleplay also, as fame is made threw battle, and a sweboz without battle is a sheaperd without sheep!
Unferth of Gergovia
12-15-2009, 20:26
great post! I always have my generals at the head of the army...I pretty much only use them to fight my first few battles and take over my first few towns. By then they get some good rank built up. I have been unable to get the reforms for some reason it just wont work in my game...but I still am a force to be reckoned with. The club infantry are great...I only have 4 or 6 groups of them but with all silver and gold chevrons they are untouchable in the tree line. I am a fan for the swordsmen but I only keep two of them due to costs...they both are 3 silver chevrons which enable them to hack through multiple lines of Gaulish spearmen and hold there own against the triarii while I crack there grapes with my clubs from the treeline. I havent used the junguniz skirmishers to chase enemies but given your information I will definantly have to try it out.
It is true the Sweboz are really the only true cult following in EB I think...I think they are totally undersestimated as well. Even playing as the Romans that is always my most feared campaign is fighting the Sweboz. They dont mess around. Great posts guys... oh...I almost forgeot...I hope they are careful with the Sweboz preview in EB II...I might just have a heart from being so excited!!!
Lots of wise words
Now, imagine yourself playing with Romani, against an AI that learnt from Duguntz... you play with camera general.
A few legions won't come back home.
seienchin
12-16-2009, 00:15
Yeah, that's right!
your archers are the crappiest of all the game. Point. But they're still very usefull. Fire-arrows always makes marvels on an ennemy already engaged somewhere else! It is a mistake to understimate them. how many units have I saved vith tghose poor archers, just by two or three volley in the back of a stronger ennemy! Arrows of fire = arrows of fear!
No--- :sweatdrop: Please play the celts with the sotaroas again. They are way crappier than for example the baltic bowman. But yes Firearrows are a good tactic, but useless against the 10 comando star Ai generals I have to face all the time.:thumbsdown:
Grade_A_Beef
12-16-2009, 00:31
aren't pretty much all western archers useless for anything except fire arrows? Horrendous range coupled with 15 ammo....their only saving grace is the barbarian ones have spears and aren't Toxotai.
And how are Germanic light cavalry in any way superior to Gallic light cavalry? If I recall their light can be compred with the Getic light cavalry, but at the very least the Getai get decent and perhaps you could say stellar Medium cavalry. Lance Epos are possibly the best light cavalry of the west, being cheap, dangerous with javelins, and a sporting a powerful AP lance charge. On top of that they take advantage of one of the widest AORs you can find, as the Celts can be recruited almost anywhere in western and central Europe.
Apázlinemjó
12-16-2009, 01:26
Hey there...I havent heard much topic on it...are there any other Sweboz fanatics out there? I love the Sweboz...there generals bodyguard is almost invincible and the Slagonz Club Infantry stop every Principe and Triarii in there path yet no one ever talks about them. I would love to hear some other peoples pros and cons on them and any useful strategies I havent come across yet.:2thumbsup:
In multiplayer the Swebóz have one of the weakest roster. Most of their units don't have real armor thus weak against archers which is exploitable by human players easily. They rely on chevrons too much, a Sloxonez without chevrons will hardly beat even a Principes for you and the chevrons are expensive to buy. Without forest bonuses the players who "use" civlised factions will hit you pretty hard in the battles with the tons of "trained" and "highly trained" units. Germanic Heavy cavalry is good...against Romans...and maybe the Celtic factions, but a Hetairoi or a cataphract will show who's the boss on the field. Worgozez are damn good flankers, however they are very expensive compared to their skills and the Black Painted German fanatics...sadly they are just not that useful except their "frighten infantry" effect. The Lugii Swordsmen....they are just a no, Bastarnae is much better at chopping armors and cheaper too, but they don't have real armor either. These are my experiences of my Swebóz battles from the last few weeks.
ARCHIPPOS
12-16-2009, 01:44
aren't pretty much all western archers useless for anything except fire arrows? Horrendous range coupled with 15 ammo....their only saving grace is the barbarian ones have spears and aren't Toxotai.
Missile suppremacy over slingers (due to slightly longer arrow range) is just abt the only use i have found for western archers thus far ...
That's why Sweboz sucks if they want to use numerical advantage in multiplayer (having their cheap units wearing no armour at all). But I once fought a guy who use sweboz in multiplayer, and using Germanic heavy infantry as his core army, supported by massive baltic frontiersmen (who was a good missile units btw), and use only two crappy cavalry for exclusive router mop up.... he was able to defeat my Epirote army BTW, even when he was outnumbered rather badly (I don't know that germanic heavy infantry can hold a phalanx for soo long with thin line - just 2 men)
Macilrille
12-16-2009, 10:01
I disagree on the Archers, as I pointed out in my Guide to Archery in the Gameplay and AAR section (which led to two others coming up with equally good ones in a fine debate if I may say so). Medininkas are amongst the best archers in the game- and they can stand up to a bit of melee as well, being Heavy Archers with good range.
About the light cav. I played enough against the celts to perfectly know that on a one unit vs one unit basis, the germanic light cav beats the celtic light cav. i wasn't saying the celtic cav is crappy, so don't feel offended! And as for the use of fire arrow against a ten stars general, yeah, that's pretty useless. But as swebos, we'll be fighting mostly against celts, who are stuck in a bloody cevil war, aand are unlickly to send us more than 3 star general (well, I've never had even a 5 star against me) and the romans, who are at war with the whole map by the time they reach us in our dark forests! maybe, one of those two empire (Epeirote or Maks) sometime try it out and come north, but not always. some really, REALLY dangerous opponent, (gosh, they piss me off soooooo much) are the sauromate... well, we're strong, but face it : we have no armour and those cowards fight ONLY wit h arrows... tactics here : make it as fast as possible to the center. The AI will come and engage you in melee with their horse archers. you'll cut them to pieces... if you had enough men to reach it! because last time, just from arrow showers, I losted like 500 men just in the march to the center!
To Poulp : yeah, a few already tried! Pitty And in MP, there's the Koinon Hellenon who had a taste for wood strawberries... i showed them that those were MY strawberries :) but, i'm no invincible, and in the open, facing wall of pike, pfff, even with bastarnae to cut threw their guts, it's bloody hard to win... so in the open, i'm not the best to give advices with the sweboz!
Apázlinemjó
12-16-2009, 11:21
That's why Sweboz sucks if they want to use numerical advantage in multiplayer (having their cheap units wearing no armour at all). But I once fought a guy who use sweboz in multiplayer, and using Germanic heavy infantry as his core army, supported by massive baltic frontiersmen (who was a good missile units btw), and use only two crappy cavalry for exclusive router mop up.... he was able to defeat my Epirote army BTW, even when he was outnumbered rather badly (I don't know that germanic heavy infantry can hold a phalanx for soo long with thin line - just 2 men)
Aye, but then you guys probably played without rules (unit type restrictions, chevron cap, money cap etc.), with that you could just buy 20 phalangities and form a huge box. Or spam 10 Cretan archers and Pezhetairoi. In an open battle, with balanced rosters it will be hard to win with Swebóz. Of course the forest battles are different stories, the table turns and a German army will probably punish anyone who dares to come into the forests.
SwissBarbar
12-16-2009, 16:24
I don't understand why the Sweboz are underestimated. In 90% of the cases, the AI-Sweboz, if not stopped by the Human Player, beats the crap out of their neighbours.
Apázlinemjó
12-16-2009, 16:57
I don't understand why the Sweboz are underestimated. In 90% of the cases, the AI-Sweboz, if not stopped by the Human Player, beats the crap out of their neighbours.
They aren't, if you check the posts most of the peeps like the faction as I do too, however the Multiplayer battles are different.
athanaric
12-16-2009, 17:19
About the light cav. I played enough against the celts to perfectly know that on a one unit vs one unit basis, the germanic light cav beats the celtic light cav.
Reidonez beat Leuce Epos one on one. However, I find Leuce Epos a bit more useful in general, because:
- their charge is more dangerous,
- they are better suited for taking out heavy cavalry,
- and they have more javelins with a better range.
Reidonez fare better vs infantry though, especially against light units.
About cavalry strength: All in all, the Gallic cavalry is very slightly inferior to the Germanic one, unless they get Remi/Belgae horsemen.
The weakest faction cavalry wise are the Casse, because they have to rely on units that are only available in one or two regions each. Myrcharn are weak and Cidainh don't count, because chariots work quite differently (they also get screwed in woods). Meanwhile, Gauls and Germans can recruit decent cavalry almost everywhere.
If the Sweboz must use their crappy infantry army in even terms against civilized phalangitai supported with lot of missile units, it was simply suicide... Celts are better....
athanaric
12-16-2009, 18:42
If the Sweboz must use their crappy infantry army in even terms against civilized phalangitai supported with lot of missile units, it was simply suicide... Celts are better....
Nonsense. Swêboz line infantry is better than their Celtic counterparts. Better morale, better discipline, better attack, better charge. Same crappy armour.
If you mean elite units, well, the Celts have over 9000 types of elite soldiers. However, these would be rare still. The only real military advantage are the Neitos because they are somewhere in the direction of heavy line infantry, which the Swêboz lack.
In campaign, the Gaul have a huge advantage because they constitute two of the three "weaker civilized factions" along with Saba. Meaning they actually have an economy.
If the Sweboz must use their crappy infantry army in even terms against civilized phalangitai supported with lot of missile units, it was simply suicide... Celts are better....
ha common, Crappy infantry... they have really decent killing ratio. the only point is that most dosen't wear armour. Bring your phalangitai in a danse forest, and even with your missiles, you could be surprised of the result! phezetaroi rout almost on sight of naked fans sprigning ambushes in the woods, and then get cut down to pieces by bastarnae (previously hidden nearby!)! of corse that in the open, Sweboz do not have a very good rooster, I'm agree... but their homeland is mostly danse woods, and so their tactics and methods are developed for such warfare, in the woods. In the woods, they're really scary opponants, even if they bring all their armour and pikes and archers!
Be friend of the trees!!!! :yes:
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