Teh Pilum...

[Leet Eriksson]

If i remmeber correctly,one of the roman emperors wanted to develop a pilum that isn't usable after thrown,but repairable after battle.i just wanna know whats the emperors name,and when did he developed it,also any info regarding this weapon might be appreciated.and thanks.

[Brother Derfel]

Not sure witch emperor it was, but the basic design of the Pilum comprised of a spear head on top of a long piece of thin metal on the end of the shaft. This long thin metal head would bend when it hit the ground or a sheild (or a body) rendering it useless for the rest of the battle, but repairable after the battle when they had time i am sure.

[Heraclius]

I was under the impression that that change took place in the Republican years of Rome. I could be wrong however, this is just a vague memory.

[Hakonarson]

The basic system you describe for pilum is exactly what they always were - they had always been designed the bend or otherwise be unable to be thrown back.

There were a number of variations on the theme, and I'm not sure we know precisely when each was introduced.

For example one version had the metal shaft pinned with 2 pins - 1 metal, one wood - the wood pin would break and the head would pivot about the metal one, making the weapon useless until repaired.

There were also light and heavy pila, although precisely how often a mix was carried isn't known - it may be that teh 2 pila usually carried represent 1 of each.

Light pila usually had a socketed metal shaft fixed to the wooden section. Heavy pila seem to have had a large metal tang at the base of the metal shaft that was riveted to a large block of wood at the top of hte metal shaft. Heavy pila could be weighted further with lead.

[71-hour Ahmed]

Regarding this subject, does anyone know what the Byzantine equivalent was in the 400AD to 700 AD period? I'm told that it evolved further into a different form but I don't know what nor do any medieval sites I know of cover this subject.

(sorry to go a bit of track here but it isn't worth posting this stand alone)

[Leet Eriksson]

Thanks alot for your help guys,but i still need to know who suggested the idea of this pilum.

[71-hour Ahmed]

Marius is also given credit for changing the construction of the pilum by replacing one of the iron nails with a wooden pin, so that the connection would break under impact and be impossible to return (the pilum had already been fashioned to bend on impact, as mentioned above, but it was notoriously difficult to temper the long metal head so that it was bent on impact, yet was strong enough to actually do damage.)

from

roman army site (http://www.art-with-attitude.com/village/roman_legion1.html)

[Leet Eriksson]

thnx alot

[Hakonarson]

Quote[/b] (71-hour Ahmed @ April 22 2003,05:30)]Regarding this subject, does anyone know what the Byzantine equivalent was in the 400AD to 700 AD period? I'm told that it evolved further into a different form but I don't know what nor do any medieval sites I know of cover this subject.
The pilum was replaced by lighter armour piercing spears during the 200's AD - the Spiculum, which was also more suitable for holding as a thrusting spear. This was supplemented by an even lighter javelin - Verutum, and in the 4th-5th centuries they added Martiobarbulus - large lead weighted darts.

The Lancea also became very common in the 4th-5th century - a true thrusting spear although not particularly long.

Byzantine infantry was initially simply the same as later Roman infantry, but after the fall of hte west they adopted the kontos - a 12 foot long spear normally used in 1 hand and also used by cavalry.

This retained when fighting cavalry but was often thrown when attacking enemy infantry and hand-to-hand combat was done with the sword, revealing the Roman origins of hte heavy infantry.

[lonewolf371]

faisal you have a knack for starting posts that have interesting out-comes, especially that Legionaire vs. Hoplite one.

[71-hour Ahmed]

thanks Hakonarson