View Full Version : Calling out the mods.
a completely inoffensive name
12-18-2009, 01:15
If you guys don't want us here, how about you guys just say it. We had a moderated group requiring Appo's approval that was only used by our small group and our small group alone. No one else posted or frequented it and we left all of our craziness in the group and didn't spread it to the rest of the org. That tavern was my only way of communicating to my online friends who I have talked to for a year and a half now and now I doubt if we can get everyone back together. I really don't care if you say in it public, but I doubt you will. Come on, go ahead and admit that you guys don't want me or Meth or Aza or Subo or AP disrupting your "honorable" and "camel loving" little online community, I really don't care. I don't anyone of you will though, and I doubt this will receive any response but this getting locked and me getting banned.
A Very Super Market
12-18-2009, 01:31
If you want someone to be pissed at, it was Az and Subotan (And probably AP) that took it outside the bloody group.
Sasaki Kojiro
12-18-2009, 01:34
Well, you are still welcome to have a group, but I guess the craziness was a bit too crazy. Some of the mods don't like you guys, but that isn't what tosa was basing the decision on.
Can't you just make a quicktopic or something?
AZ and Sub actually asked for it. If they wouldn't have posted their stupid links we might have gotten away with it. But drawing attention was stupid and something like that was bound to happen.
But I also disagree that Tosa and the mods are like "it's a decission and we wont allow anyone to say something about it." This has a "either you accept it or you get out" mentality.
Hello,
There are forumrules and topics about moderating the behaviour in social groups in this forum for long, very long. You don't expect me to beg you everyday to keep your group clean, do you?
By far the easiest thing is to boot the whole group, seriously. I would not need excuses if my whim told me to do so and in this case I do not need more excuses either, as the group has already provided enough. Sure, there are good discussions, but I am not going to inspect 1,000's of posts to check what can stay and what can not.
Start a new EB group, keep it tidy and all is ok.
Crazed Rabbit
12-18-2009, 02:21
But I also disagree that Tosa and the mods are like "it's a decission and we wont allow anyone to say something about it." This has a "either you accept it or you get out" mentality.
Indeed it does, because that's the way it is. This isn't a democracy or any sort of popular rule.
The rules are clear, and there's many ways to set up communication outside of the Org; quicktopics, VB forums, etc.
CR
Indeed it does, because that's the way it is. This isn't a democracy or any sort of popular rule.
The function of a forum is that people comunicate with each other right?
I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?
I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?
Yes, that is what the Watchtower is for.
Don't know the whole details, but we have had the discussion about groups and profiles before. Forum rules apply, even if there is no standard moderation. Piracy/pr0n are verboten. Language is technically against the rules, but will likely be ignored unless attention is drawn.
Sounds like rules #1 and #2 were ignored, and the discussion leaked into the main forum and attracted mod attention. :smash:
Start a new EB group, keep it tidy and all is ok.:yes: Your crew are pretty active members, and do contribute to the community in the normal forums. Just learn to compartmentalize...
There is a bottom-line and that is that there are some things that cannot do and majority of these can be enforced by the server host, so it is not even up to Tosa to decide it should be allowed or not, as it is the server policy not to have those things,
Should the forum face consequences and possibly shut down because some members couldn't behave themselves? The answer is obviously no.
TosaInu as far as I am aware, just deleted it and went "Right, just create a new one and don't let it get like that again." after there have been warning and comments all done before. One of the worse things as a staff-member is when the forum starts becoming a job rather than something you enjoy. I remember when I was a moderator, that it can easily get into the case where some things really do become a hassle and it is like some members just do it to purposely just to cause trouble.
What TosaInu might have been seen as harsh at first, but he has warned and commented on this area before and it was the members of the group that caused all the trouble who are at fault, not TosaInu and the staff-members.
As AVSM, who I believe is a Taverner pointed out:
If you want someone to be pissed at, it was Az and Subotan (And probably AP) that took it outside the bloody group.
Also drawing attention to the moderators to what was actually inside the group as well which broke a lot of the ground rules.
Hosakawa Tito
12-18-2009, 04:17
The function of a forum is that people comunicate with each other right?
I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?
Of course you can, within the forum rules.
AZ and Sub actually asked for it. If they wouldn't have posted their stupid links we might have gotten away with it. But drawing attention was stupid and something like that was bound to happen.
There's a lesson in there somewhere, and you people are certainly intelligent enough to figure out what it is. So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC. I have no real idea why, but I imagine I wouldn't be far off the mark if it happened to be under similar circumstances, right ? Don't tell me, I really don't care. That was way in the past, and we are concerned with the immediate present.
You know, it's funny. This is the only social group at the org that I am aware of that has ever been deleted. In fact, this is the only social group that I can recall with multiple reported posts for unacceptable content. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it, and I don't believe for a minute that all the other groups are 100% choir boys. However, despite that and the lack of moderator super-nannies looking over their shoulders they manage to get along here without any undue trouble.
This forum is very tolerant when it comes to allowing serious rule breakers back, more so than any other place I've ever been. However, it would be a mistake to take that as a weakness to be exploited.
I'm not speaking for Tosa or anyone else, but as far as I know and am concerned all are welcome to stay including those that are currently temporarily banned. This has always been the policy since I've been here. However, that is up to each of you. All y'all are in total control of your individual circumstances here.
Sounds like rules #1 and #2 were ignored, and the discussion leaked into the main forum and attracted mod attention. :smash:
:yes: Your crew are pretty active members, and do contribute to the community in the normal forums. Just learn to compartmentalize...
No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.
And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."
There is a bottom-line and that is that there are some things that cannot do and majority of these can be enforced by the server host, so it is not even up to Tosa to decide it should be allowed or not, as it is the server policy not to have those things,
Should the forum face consequences and possibly shut down because some members couldn't behave themselves? The answer is obviously no.
You are completley exaggerating. I don't believe that you have any idea why the place was deleted.
TosaInu as far as I am aware, just deleted it and went "Right, just create a new one and don't let it get like that again." after there have been warning and comments all done before. One of the worse things as a staff-member is when the forum starts becoming a job rather than something you enjoy. I remember when I was a moderator, that it can easily get into the case where some things really do become a hassle and it is like some members just do it to purposely just to cause trouble.
I'm not causing trouble, yet I am affected. That's hardly fair.
What TosaInu might have been seen as harsh at first, but he has warned and commented on this area before and it was the members of the group that caused all the trouble who are at fault, not TosaInu and the staff-members.
Contacting Appo, the group owner, upfront might have been a good idea. The whole thing was presented with a fait accompli, and we were not even allowed to complain at first. Hardly a diplomatical action, you have to anticipate negative reaction for that.
Of course you can, within the forum rules.
At first I couldn't. Tosa deleted and said there was no discussion. Topic locked after creation. Fait accompli.
There's a lesson in there somewhere, and you people are certainly intelligent enough to figure out what it is. So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC. I have no real idea why, but I imagine I wouldn't be far off the mark if it happened to be under similar circumstances, right ? Don't tell me, I really don't care. That was way in the past, and we are concerned with the immediate present.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The EB tavern was formed here in the org as a thread. It was closed due reasons I have no clue, because I wasn't there back then.
If you are concerened with the immediate present, why do you bring the past up. I'm not able to understand the point you are trying to make.
You know, it's funny. This is the only social group at the org that I am aware of that has ever been deleted. In fact, this is the only social group that I can recall with multiple reported posts for unacceptable content. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it, and I don't believe for a minute that all the other groups are 100% choir boys. However, despite that and the lack of moderator super-nannies looking over their shoulders they manage to get along here without any undue trouble.
Yeah. Because Aza and Sub posted links outside the tavern that drew attention. AP basicly asked to be banned aswell.
I am dead sure if those posters wouldn't have messed it up in such a short timespan, no mod would have cared for the minor slips in language there.
This forum is very tolerant when it comes to allowing serious rule breakers back, more so than any other place I've ever been. However, it would be a mistake to take that as a weakness to be exploited.
I'm not speaking for Tosa or anyone else, but as far as I know and am concerned all are welcome to stay including those that are currently temporarily banned. This has always been the policy since I've been here. However, that is up to each of you. All y'all are in total control of your individual circumstances here.
I don't see the connection here. If we all seriously broke the rules, we should get infraction points or bans. Because of language. Deleting the whole group was collective punishment that affected people who posted there and did not break any rules.
Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.
Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.
As I pointed out. I am not defending their actions. That was really stupid and I don't want anything to do with it. As you know well enough that many of our members didn't agree with the concept of trolling the org.
Of course Tosa can delete anything and everything. But there is also something called empathy...
pevergreen
12-18-2009, 04:46
miotas you know better than that.
Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?
The group broke rules. The EB tavern thread in the frontroom was opened and closed a few times IIRC because of the same thing.
And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."
Right, so when you went to the social group, did it or did it not have forums.totalwar.org in the URL? Yes? Part of the forums. Why should the rules be different just for you in a slightly removed spot? You have the entire internet to blow off steam.
There are free to host forums! Quicktopics! Email! Maybe it didnt have the feel of the org, but the org has the feel because that stuff is not tolerated.
If a social group on a game forum was the only way you had in keeping in contact with your internet friends...you should at least had emails.
The group of you seem to be acting way under your age and normal maturity levels, however low they sometimes go for a few of you.
:no:
Hosakawa Tito
12-18-2009, 04:50
Obviously, no answer is going to satisfy you. I empathize with your predicament, but it is what it is.
miotas you know better than that.
You meant me. Not Miotas.
Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?
Empathy.
Not everything in this world has to completly defined by rules.
So yes, if people wouldn't have acted crazy and the EB tavern would not have stirred controversity, yes, I think the mods might have not cared.
They knew what language we had for over a year now. They only warrned us when serious rules were broke like linking to warez-sites. Other then that we were fine.
I know this is a lot to take for you, but the mods did not care for months. Just until recently when some taverners started to act strange and in a nutshell asked to be banned.
Do you really think there is no connection to the missbehavior of certain members recently and the deletion of the group? It's basicly a slap in the face.
Right, so when you went to the social group, did it or did it not have forums.totalwar.org in the URL? Yes? Part of the forums. Why should the rules be different just for you in a slightly removed spot? You have the entire internet to blow off steam.
Don't sass me. You are not helping.
There are free to host forums! Quicktopics! Email! Maybe it didnt have the feel of the org, but the org has the feel because that stuff is not tolerated.
What? You think this is the only place I visit?
If a social group on a game forum was the only way you had in keeping in contact with your internet friends...you should at least had emails.
Great comment. That's helping a lot. Jesus...
The group of you seem to be acting way under your age and normal maturity levels, however low they sometimes go for a few of you.
:no:
I will not speak for the actions of others.
Obviously, no answer is going to satisfy you. I empathize with your predicament, but it is what it is.
I'm not looking for answers. I really do understand your point of view. I am just stating my resentment towards the sitatuion, which is collective punishment.
Also I felt the urge to clerify what happened, because as this thread shows some members think we are baby eating pseudo-revolutioneries that post links to sites with illegal content just to bring down the org.
We are not like that, we are mostly a cozy community who love group hugging and little bunnies.
miotas you know better than that.
Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?
The group broke rules. The EB tavern thread in the frontroom was opened and closed a few times IIRC because of the same thing.
I realise this, that is why I'm not crying out in rage like some others, but it was pretty much fine, so long as we kept to ourselves, tucked away in our strange little corner. The real reason I'm annoyed is that some went crazy and took it too far, out in the main forums. All of a sudden we couldn't be ignored any more and Tosa did what he did.
pevergreen
12-18-2009, 05:09
:shrug:
C'est la vie.
CountArach
12-18-2009, 05:10
If you are annoyed that people drew attention to you, then clearly you understand that whatever they drew attention to was over the line... otherwise you would have no issue with it. I'm just saying - seems a bit illogical to be using that as an argument.
If you are annoyed that people drew attention to you, then clearly you understand that whatever they drew attention to was over the line... otherwise you would have no issue with it. I'm just saying - seems a bit illogical to be using that as an argument.
I'm not sure if you are refering to miotas or me, but I have already written in this thread:
I am not defending their actions. That was really stupid and I don't want anything to do with it. As you know well enough that many of our members didn't agree with the concept of trolling the org.
So yes. It was over the line. And I didn't agree with them in the first place.
The Internet, serious business.
Honestly, I have no idea what happened, nor do I really care what you guys did to get your group deleted. What I do know is that most of you guys have provided me with much amusement over time. So I hope that all of you that have been banned get unbanned. Though I doubt my opinions matter much.:shrug:
I know this is a lot to take for you, but the mods did not care for months.
Actually, the EB Tavern and some of its crew have been the subject of a great deal of discussion amongst the staff over a period of months. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.
Fixiwee, I'd be curious to hear what you think the Org's management should have done.
The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.
I don't think I seen a lolcat picture like that before. :inquisitive:
pevergreen
12-18-2009, 06:40
you knew I just re-read what i posted and am not really impressed with myself.
:shrug: I have no reason to disbelieve Lemur, or Ser (below)
Megas Methuselah
12-18-2009, 06:40
A cat being burned to death? You've got a wild imagination, old man.
Ser Clegane
12-18-2009, 07:15
A cat being burned to death? You've got a wild imagination, old man.
Not really.
Beefy187
12-18-2009, 07:21
As far as I can see, Tosa granted EB tavern to start over again as long as they keep it clean this time.. What more do you want?
A Very Super Market
12-18-2009, 08:14
I feel as if we're biding our time until we can roast the three loonies.
Speaking of roasts, I'm pretty sure those kitten images were accompanied with captions of mourning, not glee. But that's all ancient history now.
Now, how do I articulate my thoughts on all this....
I must admit, we in the tavern almost perpetually toe the line between irreverency and irresponsibility. Thankfully, this goes on without harming the sanity of most outsiders, merely cultivating the existing mental illness running around in our own heads. I can't exactly apologize for anyone's conduct, as I lack the humility or awareness of the situation. What I can say is that the tavern isn't a wannabe /b/ (Wanna/b/?) out to create trouble. We're simply too lazy to do so. How people can tie those two together is beyond me. The reasons for deletion (Presumably, the sheer volume of profanity), and the reasons for the bans (Obstinance and random defiancy) are entirely separate.
As with any official-sounding statement, this is not directed t'wards anyone in particular, bla, blarh. Maybe I'm just thin-skinned enough to truly care about a misdirected opinion, but I've done my best to keep this post Sunday-School quality. Retreating back to the booze now.
Socrates on Wheels
12-18-2009, 11:15
I feel a need to post now, regardless of my ban. Not in order to cause trouble, but just to get my viewpoint across (And send in orders for 30YW)
If you want someone to be pissed at, it was Az and Subotan (And probably AP) that took it outside the bloody group.
If I am responsible for it being banned/destroyed, I’m sorry. I’m guessing the main reason is that I was toeing the line just generally, because I figured that the mods were OK with a little bit of harmless banter now and then (Turns out they aren’t, for some reason), and because of that post I made in the Watchtower which apparently managed to convince everyone of the opposite of what I was trying to get across. I apologise, and I’ll be more careful in the future.
If they wouldn't have posted their stupid links we might have gotten away with it. But drawing attention was stupid and something like that was bound to happen.
What stupid link did I post? Bittorrent? Considering someone was asking for advice about how to get free music over the internet, that was going to come up eventually, regardless of the forum you would have been on. If I hadn't posted it, someone else would have.
Well, you are still welcome to have a group, but I guess the craziness was a bit too crazy.
OK, fine. If people think that that was a problem, then we’ll take that on board. Me and I’m guessing the others arenot too stubborn, or too proud to take valid criticism. However, going along and saying “It was better to just burn the whole thing to ground, as it was too entrenched to edit everything” is going to annoy the people who frequent there regularly. The whole process of dealing with us has swung in a few days from not dealing with it at all to ham-fisted censorship.
Piracy/pr0n are verboten.
We totally understand that, especially the latter. A few months ago, someone did post pr0n in the EB Tavern, which was dealt with, by Appo.
So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC
Never happened to me. I never had an account at TWC.
A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death
This particularly struck me. Yes, I have seen that particular sequence of pictures, but not at this forum, and the place where I did see it I go to very infrequently. And I thought it was horrific, and I would have complained, had I seen it in the EB Tavern. Like I tried to get across before, “We” don’t exist. That’s why I was using quotations marks in that post I made. Just because one member does something does not mean it is endorsed by the whole of the Tavern.
The reasons for deletion (Presumably, the sheer volume of profanity), and the reasons for the bans (Obstinance and random defiancy) are entirely separate.
100% true. You seem to have put two and three together, and come out with four.
What I do know is that most of you guys have provided me with much amusement over time. So I hope that all of you that have been banned get unbanned
This is more of a general criticism of Org policy. Have there been complaints from members of the Org about our behaviour within the Tavern? Or even outside? Has every time one of us made a post, have you been flooded with report buttons? I doubt it. We have a lot to add to the forum, and most of the time, I would say it is appreciated. Likewise, I like the Org’s set up. There are a lot of forums on the internet that suck, and I left one some time ago due to a lack of moderation. The Org’s strict policy towards many subjects is certainly a critical factor in stopping it devolving like that.
But if there is one thing worse than a forum where everybody abuses each other, it’s a forum where there is no criticism at all. There are few things more tedious than seeing a forum where a few posters with 10,000 < Posts dominate conversation, everyone slaps each other on the back when they make a reference to something mildly amusing that happened five years ago, and the ravings of the resident racists are met with an “Oh, you.”, and a roll of the eyes. New arrivals are isolated and ultimately bored, even if that is not intended.
That’s not what the Org is, and that’s not what I want it to be. But it could be. And I think acting in the way that the Mods have in the past few days is going to lead it down that road.
By banning people who are slightly more likely to be a bit more chaotic when talking amongst themselves, you are preventing those same people from participating in the main threads. You will be left with a forum that is full of boring, uninteresting people, who, although they never swear, put people off from joining the forum as much as somewhere that contains loads of swearing. By having the EB Tavern, which is a voluntary social group, you are vastly expanding your potential userbase, as people who would otherwise be a little more exciting at some times can contribute to the main forum at the same standards as everyone else. No-one is forced to join the EB Tavern, and it’s not a compulsory part of being an Orgah. If you dislike it, don’t join. It’s as simple as that. If you allow it some leniency regarding both language and moderation, you’ll have a livelier forum. Being reactionary about it isn’t going to do anyone any good.
And with regards to “Just use email/IRC/Quicktopic”; those are all amazingly impractical. With the EB Tavern, I’m surrounded by other, intelligent people, and I know that if I leave a comment, someone will reply. Sending out mass emails will kill off our friendship with one another.
Actually, the EB Tavern and some of its crew have been the subject of a great deal of discussion amongst the staff over a period of months. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Yeah understandable. But that is because some members drew attention. The "staff" wouldn't have cared if every member would have acted normal outside the social group.
Actually when I think of the members that constantly bragged how many infractions they have your statement here is perfectly coherent.
But the fact remains that there was not enough discussion amongst the staff to do act until some members recently were asking for the banhammer to be set in motion.
The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.
I am sorry, but that is slander. I have not seen a picture of kittens being burned in the tavern or anything like it. Such behavior is not what the EB tavern is about, nor are such people welcome there.
Like AVSM pointed out, profanity was the only rule we broke. And you know what? I can live with that and I still think it's okay within a social group if we play nice.
Fixiwee, I'd be curious to hear what you think the Org's management should have done.
No. That's not my job.
The deletion of the tavern was done.
I don't agree, though I understand the motivation to do so.
Despite it, I think this was not done in a subtle manner, but rather a show of power.
This is why I post here
I know I wont change anything.
But I can at least make you rethink what your position and that's all I ask for.
And I think to a certain agree I succeeded with that.
What I can say is that the tavern isn't a wannabe /b/ (Wanna/b/?) out to create trouble.
:whip: Good riddance. :smash:
There's probably a point somewhere in 4chan, like cooking recipes, but a lot that comes from it is just childish, silly and/or offensive. I'm probably old and grumpy but I never understood the appeal of it and never went there on my own. So now I have found this really serious place that appeals to old men like me and those silly kids invade it, guess what? I'm happy that they are crushed down.
[insert some silly lolzkittenzpicture here]
On a somewhat more serious note, I think a lot of the EB tavern people, and probably most 4chan people, lack respect, it's a "me/us vs the rest of the world and whoever doesn't like my kind of humour is a [insert silly lolzkittentpicture]" - attitude and I'm not a fan of it. That doesn't mean that you people haven't made some nice and appreciated Backroom contributions, but whenever this 4chan mentality shows though I wish I had a ban-button, my culture is superior after all. ~;)
Socrates on Wheels
12-18-2009, 12:54
:whip: Good riddance. :smash:
There's probably a point somewhere in 4chan, like cooking recipes, but a lot that comes from it is just childish, silly and/or offensive. I'm probably old and grumpy but I never understood the appeal of it and never went there on my own. So now I have found this really serious place that appeals to old men like me and those silly kids invade it, guess what? I'm happy that they are crushed down.
[insert some silly lolzkittenzpicture here]
Very occassionally, I visit /b/. I think that, if you know where to look, you can find some amazingly funny things there. The majority of things there are stupid/offensive though, which is why I don't visit there often
Likewise, I think I can find some amazingly funny things here as well, and that the majority of things said here are intelligent. I'm not attempting to turn it into /b/, and I'm sure no-one else is either.
Cute Wolf
12-18-2009, 13:06
Well, I must admit that I've seen the burning kitten pics in the tavern, at the photo thread, AP posts it as the answer of someone who post his dog's photo (note: that dog was really normal dog pics)
Well, I must admit that I've seen the burning kitten pics in the tavern, at the photo thread, AP posts it as the answer of someone who post his dog's photo (note: that dog was really normal dog pics)
Really? Woah.
Cute Wolf
12-18-2009, 13:28
Yeah, I usually browse the EB tavern, because they are the funniest people in all Org... I was member of that group too, but rarely speak. Well, it was located in the official photo thread, and I remembered that kitten was the post of AP. It was burned with Zippo... No I don't get shocked at all with that pic... as I allready seen the real kitten slaughtering (and eat kitten too...) :clown: maybe he only want to suggest that burning was more humane method of slaughtering kittens (rather than smashing it with hammer or cudgel, it was the standard method to kill cats here)
Bans are announced in another topic in this forum, it hasn't been updated for a while.
Some people did post :daisies: and that was rewarded with ipoints. Those accounts are demoted for a few days.
There is a reminder of the rules. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=124503)
Those rules were announced and explained in a thread created by TosaInu in February 2009.
Everybody knew what was expected; some apparently refused to understand. Now, measures have been taken.
If you insist on wanting to feel badly treated, then there's not much we can do about that :shrug:
No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.
And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."
I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org. :yes:
Furunculus
12-18-2009, 16:14
you kids................... *tuts*
I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org. :yes:
I don't talk about this! ;)
(Sorry for going OT, but this had to be said)
Sasaki Kojiro
12-18-2009, 18:02
OK, fine. If people think that that was a problem, then we’ll take that on board. Me and I’m guessing the others arenot too stubborn, or too proud to take valid criticism. However, going along and saying “It was better to just burn the whole thing to ground, as it was too entrenched to edit everything” is going to annoy the people who frequent there regularly. The whole process of dealing with us has swung in a few days from not dealing with it at all to ham-fisted censorship.
In the end tosa is busy, and doesn't want to take time out of real life to go through a 1000 pages.
This is more of a general criticism of Org policy. Have there been complaints from members of the Org about our behaviour within the Tavern? Or even outside? Has every time one of us made a post, have you been flooded with report buttons?
Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints, it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.
And with regards to “Just use email/IRC/Quicktopic”; those are all amazingly impractical. With the EB Tavern, I’m surrounded by other, intelligent people, and I know that if I leave a comment, someone will reply. Sending out mass emails will kill off our friendship with one another.
You can have a group here...perhaps an arrangement can be worked out.
Yeah, I usually browse the EB tavern, because they are the funniest people in all Org... I was member of that group too, but rarely speak. Well, it was located in the official photo thread, and I remembered that kitten was the post of AP. It was burned with Zippo... No I don't get shocked at all with that pic... as I allready seen the real kitten slaughtering (and eat kitten too...) :clown: maybe he only want to suggest that burning was more humane method of slaughtering kittens (rather than smashing it with hammer or cudgel, it was the standard method to kill cats here)
Yeah...I wasn't going to mention Zippocat by name. Although I still didn't see it here, and had I, I would have reported it.
Everybody knew what was expected; some apparently refused to understand. Now, measures have been taken.
If you insist on wanting to feel badly treated, then there's not much we can do about that :shrug:
...Except examine those rules and see if they are actually working. By implementing them in social groups, they are achieving the opposite of what they're meant to doing. I haven't seen any explanation as to why having those particular rules applicable in social groups make the .org more interesting or entertaining.
In the end tosa is busy, and doesn't want to take time out of real life to go through a 1000 pages.
Did it even need to be deleted? Or was it threatening to break loose and infect the rest of the forum with it's cuss words and the like?
Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints,
Exactly, there's no demand for moderation on this scale. Orgahs are quite happy as long as we keep ourselves to ourselves and leave the EB Tavern where it belongs. Moderators are supposed to serve the community they moderate, not some semi-sacred, untouchable Decalogue of rules.
it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.
Then that should have been dealt with on an individual process, not a collective group punishment (I wasn't aware that it had even existed, so I don't know how it was dealt with)
Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern, and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"
As for rules, you'll see we have surprisingly few for a board of this size. Common sense and common courtesy trump all.
I haven't seen any explanation as to why having those particular rules applicable in social groups make the .org more interesting or entertaining.
And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.
Mithrandir
12-18-2009, 19:59
...
Rob The Bastard
12-18-2009, 20:21
There are rules.
If you miscreants push the wrong button, you can expect a reaction... suprise! you got a reaction. It seems that your "normal" activities merely gets you registering on the Org spy satelite, flaunting flaming kitty like a banner begs for a nuclear strike, with a follow up nuke on top of the rubble, just in case.
You got off lightly.
in my humble opinion.
You should either post within the bounds of what is acceptable... or not post at all.
PS act like a grown up when you review your post, proir to posting it (you do do that don't you?) it might save you some grief.
regards
Bastard.
Alexander the Pretty Good
12-18-2009, 21:35
I knew all this group stuff was gonna end in tears. Lay off our mods, gentlemen. And hope that I'm never made one.
A Very Super Market
12-18-2009, 22:59
No one here has insulted the mods or the .org (acin shouldn't count). The general consensus seems to be that the tavern is full of cat-burning potheads filling pages with crispy animals. It's interesting how an isolated event that wasn't approved by taverners in the first place can turn into a stereotype within a single thread. I don't care if anybody tries to limit the admitted profanity going on, but what is the point of villifying us? Yes, one photo of animal abuse was present. Our crime was that we simply didn't report it. I don't recall any amount of flaunting or boasting about that going on, nor do I recall anyone making it their sig, nor was that image ever referenced again apart from the one post.
Centurion1
12-19-2009, 00:12
you guys burned a living kitten with a zippo and make jokes about it...........
that is so sick.
like seriously im disgusted that could be a prison sentence
A Very Super Market
12-19-2009, 00:20
If you are trolling, I find that post to be incredibly hilarious and tasteless at the same time.
If you're serious, then you jumping to conclusions. AP posted "zippocat", an old series of images of some man burning his cat to death. No, we did not arrange a meeting in someone's house and light his cat on fire.
LeftEyeNine
12-19-2009, 00:20
You are simply dodging a huge part of the root of the disruption you have caused as a certain group of members, while, interestingly and contradictively, contributing heavily into the mentioned stereotyping by underlining the most disgusting piece of :daisy: I have ever seen on this board.
Were I the admin, you'd need alternative account creation bots to keep up. Yet you are overflowing with "omg oppressive modz rocking our pink and cuddly worlds !!1" kind of as-old-as-the-interwebz anti-moderation anarchism.
Moderators are supposed to serve the community they moderate, not some semi-sacred, untouchable Decalogue of rules.
The sheer fact that The Org, after all these years, being such a hot-headed :daisy: as I am, stays as my only bookmark I have not given upon is since the members actually "behave, if not, improve". I was one that could not once.
Members serve their very own community here. Don't push something all over us as if we are being paid for having to brainstorm over "careless laughter and loud pranks coming out of a room clouded with weed smoke". All staff is up there 'cause they somehow manage to enjoy it, ones that don't feel like it simply quit. I absolutely have no idea of what kind of hallucinogen induced imagination of such a "committee of overlords" in your minds.
Beirut had a saying: Be good or be elsewhere. It's as simple as this. If there is a better place with more tolerant moderation staff, I suppose the obvious choice of yours would please both parties.
Like Subo, i felt like i need to reply in here.
Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints, it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.
I knew it had to be that. i should have said something, especially after the last time when he posted those pictures of that girl's mangled body after a car accident.
Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern, and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"
I want links to some examples please.
And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.
Man, at this point I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's. I don't do any of the friggen trolling or flame wars anymore, you can look at the backroom recently and see that I have been posting intelligent arguments and responding to those who disagree politely, trying to contribute. We made the thing moderated so only we would be the ones talking in it and no one else would raise concerns.
We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods.
The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.
I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind, to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back or to make fun of each other.
Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!
Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern,
OK, fine. We won't in future.
and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"
Really?
As for rules, you'll see we have surprisingly few for a board of this size. Common sense and common courtesy trump all.
The size of a forum has nothing whatsoever in common with the amount or the enforcement of rules.
And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.
I haven't seen anyone arguing for that. And you dodged my question.
There are rules.
Yes. I understand that. I am not thick. However, those rules are being overzealously being enforced, in a manner quite similar to this. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/11/snapshot-special-branch-terror-suspect) Rules, made with good intentions, and used correctly the majority of the time, are being used excessively.
If you miscreants push the wrong button, you can expect a reaction... suprise! you got a reaction. It seems that your "normal" activities merely gets you registering on the Org spy satelite, flaunting flaming kitty like a banner begs for a nuclear strike, with a follow up nuke on top of the rubble, just in case..
What.
Are you implying that all of us were "flaunting flaming kitty"? I didn't even know that it had even existed on this forum!
PS act like a grown up when you review your post, proir to posting it (you do do that don't you?) it might save you some grief.
PS Don't descend to being condescending; it becomes very obvious that your argument is so weak that you have to resort to that. Just thought it might save you some grief.
I knew all this group stuff was gonna end in tears. Lay off our mods, gentlemen.
Oh, I have nothing against the mods personally. I would say that the majority of the time they do a great job. But in this instance, disproportionate action was taken.
No one here has insulted the mods or the .org (acin shouldn't count). The general consensus seems to be that the tavern is full of cat-burning potheads filling pages with crispy animals. It's interesting how an isolated event that wasn't approved by taverners in the first place can turn into a stereotype within a single thread. I don't care if anybody tries to limit the admitted profanity going on, but what is the point of villifying us?
You know why that is; they've wanted to get rid of it for a long time and so probably the worst thing that ever appeared there has been presented in such a way as to imply that that was just part of our normal routine.
you guys burned a living kitten with a zippo and make jokes about it...........
that is so sick.
like seriously im disgusted that could be a prison sentence
Oh great, so not only are we all guys who look at pictures of burning kittens, but we actually burn kittens as well. How did you make the mental leap from one guy posting a picture of a burning kitten (That a lot of us never even saw) to that meaning we're all kitten murderers?
You are simply dodging a huge part of the root of the disruption you have caused as a certain group of members, while, interestingly and contradictively, contributing heavily into the mentioned stereotyping by underlining the most disgusting piece of I have ever seen on this board.
So we're just supposed to ignore the false accusations against us?
Were I the admin, you'd need alternative account creation bots to keep up. Yet you are overflowing with "omg oppressive modz rocking our pink and cuddly worlds !!1" kind of as-old-as-the-interwebz anti-moderation anarchism.
Been there, done that. Yawn.
The sheer fact that The Org, after all these years, being such a hot-headed as I am, stays as my only bookmark I have not given upon is since the members actually "behave, if not, improve". I was one that could not once.
Having the EB Tavern exist is hardly going to make the whole place descend into anarchy.
Members serve their very own community here. Don't push something all over us as if we are being paid for having to brainstorm over "careless laughter and loud pranks coming out of a room clouded with weed smoke". All staff is up there 'cause they somehow manage to enjoy it, ones that don't feel like it simply quit.
I am criticising one aspect of your overall approach to modding. That is it. I'm not calling for some kind of revolution.
I absolutely have no idea of what kind of hallucinogen induced imagination of such a "committee of overlords" in your minds.
Are you implying that I abuse hallucinogenics? I've never even seen a joint, let alone smoked one. Stop painting me to be something which I am clearly not.
Also, note the reduction to the "Some of them support changes to drugs policy; therefore, they must all be stoners! Thus, they are stupid" argument.
Beirut had a saying: Be good or be elsewhere. It's as simple as this. If there is a better place with more tolerant moderation staff, I suppose the obvious choice of yours would please both parties.
This is the first instance I have ever seen of a moderator saying "Go away interesting people. You're not wanted here."
The situation is this. I like to be here. It has interesting people here. So do the other EB Tavern members. They like it too. Me and the other EB Tavern members share a similar kind of humour, and we all like each other. So, because we don't want to have to go to another, not interesting forum, we set up a social group where we can be a bit silly. Sometimes we make silly posts in the EB Tavern, sometimes we make serious posts in the EB Tavern, and a lot of the time we make serious posts in the rest of the Org. Because we all have friends who are not in the EB Tavern, we like to stay in the rest of the .Org. Going to a different forum, and "migrating" the EB Tavern is impossible.
There is no obligation to join the EB Tavern. I do not see why people are offended by stuff which is not only rather tame, but that they also do not have to see.
OK, fine. We won't in future.
Really?
The size of a forum has nothing whatsoever in common with the amount or the enforcement of rules.
I haven't seen anyone arguing for that. And you dodged my question.
Yes. I understand that. I am not thick. However, those rules are being overzealously being enforced, in a manner quite similar to this. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/11/snapshot-special-branch-terror-suspect) Rules, made with good intentions, and used correctly the majority of the time, are being used excessively.
What.
Are you implying that all of us were "flaunting flaming kitty"? I didn't even know that it had even existed on this forum!
PS Don't descend to being condescending; it becomes very obvious that your argument is so weak that you have to resort to that. Just thought it might save you some grief.
Oh, I have nothing against the mods personally. I would say that the majority of the time they do a great job. But in this instance, disproportionate action was taken.
You know why that is; they've wanted to get rid of it for a long time and so probably the worst thing that ever appeared there has been presented in such a way as to imply that that was just part of our normal routine.
Oh great, so not only are we all guys who look at pictures of burning kittens, but we actually burn kittens as well. How did you make the mental leap from one guy posting a picture of a burning kitten (That a lot of us never even saw) to that meaning we're all kitten murderers?
So we're just supposed to ignore the false accusations against us?
Been there, done that. Yawn.
Having the EB Tavern exist is hardly going to make the whole place descend into anarchy.
I am criticising one aspect of your overall approach to modding. That is it. I'm not calling for some kind of revolution.
Are you implying that I abuse hallucinogenics? I've never even seen a joint, let alone smoked one. Stop painting me to be something which I am clearly not.
Also, note the reduction to the "Some of them support changes to drugs policy; therefore, they must all be stoners! Thus, they are stupid" argument.
This is the first instance I have ever seen of a moderator saying "Go away interesting people. You're not wanted here."
The situation is this. I like to be here. It has interesting people here. So do the other EB Tavern members. They like it too. Me and the other EB Tavern members share a similar kind of humour, and we all like each other. So, because we don't want to have to go to another, not interesting forum, we set up a social group where we can be a bit silly. Sometimes we make silly posts in the EB Tavern, sometimes we make serious posts in the EB Tavern, and a lot of the time we make serious posts in the rest of the Org. Because we all have friends who are not in the EB Tavern, we like to stay in the rest of the .Org. Going to a different forum, and "migrating" the EB Tavern is impossible.
There is no obligation to join the EB Tavern. I do not see why people are offended by stuff which is not only rather tame, but that they also do not have to see.
I knew it had to be that. i should have said something, especially after the last time when he posted those pictures of that girl's mangled body after a car accident.
...What?
Man, at this point I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's.
Exactly. We are no worse than a bunch of guys sitting in a tavern, saying the first thing that comes into our heads. That is what we are, and all we have ever been.
I don't do any of the friggen trolling or flame wars anymore,
Likewise, as if I ever did them.
you can look at the backroom recently and see that I have been posting intelligent arguments and responding to those who disagree politely, trying to contribute. We made the thing moderated so only we would be the ones talking in it and no one else would raise concerns.
What bothers me is that certain members are in the backroom allowed to make quite slanderous or clearly false posts, whilst if we forget to put a daisy instead of the word "Hell", all :daisy: breaks loose.
We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods...to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back
Not helping :stare:
The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.
I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind,...or to make fun of each other.
Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!
Although all this is quite accurate.
Damn, I appear to have hit the quote button by mistake, as I am unable to edit my own posts.
...What?
yeah, this was before you re-joined the group. We got in the same damn trouble because he posted pictures of a girl with no head, the aftermath of a car accident.
Centurion1
12-19-2009, 02:22
i find it hard to believe no one knew about something like that. i mean egads man how does that not get around and why didnt anyone tell him to take it down?
Alexander the Pretty Good
12-19-2009, 02:33
We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods.
The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.
I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind, to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back or to make fun of each other.
Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!
You can be free - set up your own forum and post all the shock pics you want. You can't have your cake and smear ours with your leavings, too.
What shock pics? I haven't seen any? Nor posted any?
I'm serious... what in Zeus did I miss?
AlexanderSextus
12-19-2009, 03:04
You can be free - set up your own forum and post all the shock pics you want. You can't have your cake and smear ours with your leavings, too.
The shock pics were the work of ONE person out of our whole group, and we didn't even like them.
He got in trouble for posting them, and we didn't complain about that.
i find it hard to believe no one knew about something like that. i mean egads man how does that not get around and why didnt anyone tell him to take it down?
I knew about it, but never seen it because *gasp* it was removed. Basically in the tavern our rule breaking consisted of swearing too much and complaining about people who annoy us in the main forums.
I knew about it, but never seen it because *gasp* it was removed. Basically in the tavern our rule breaking consisted of swearing too much and complaining about people who annoy us in the main forums.
This.
Wait guys!
I get it now.
If someone not a part of the eb tavern had posted the image would that of meant that that everybody who isn't a part of the EB tavern is, how did that guy put it?
A Kitten burner?
The admins are Nazi Pussies on a powertrip
^
if you are connected to the EV tavern I'm gonna give up and state that the mods and admins are right.
And that POs me because I wrote a long msg against the arrogans in the post of LEN, but I wont post it anymore.
I want links to some examples please.
I'm sorry, am I suddenly in the business of satisfying your curiosity? Am I supposed to hunt through all of the infractions that have been accrued in the last year, correlate them with my PM box and find you examples, which you will doubtless dismiss anyway?
I am not in the habit of lying or misrepresenting the truth. It's something of a personal fetish. If my word isn't good enough for you, then we have nothing more to discuss.
Man, at this point I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's.
Gee, it's too bad there's no unmoderated places where you can talk for free on the internet tubes (http://www.thefreecountry.com/scripthosting/messageboards.shtml).
I'm pretty sure that LEN did not read any post written by AVSM or me befor posting his statement.
Which is why I am quite frustrated with some moderators. (given that some have been very reasonable)
KukriKhan
12-19-2009, 05:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by miotas
I knew about it, but never seen it because *gasp* it was removed. Basically in the tavern our rule breaking consisted of swearing too much and complaining about people who annoy us in the main forums.
This.
Wait guys!
I get it now.
If someone not a part of the eb tavern had posted the image would that of meant that that everybody who isn't a part of the EB tavern is, how did that guy put it?
A Kitten burner?
Heh. Yeah. The irony is thick.
Does this not prompt the question: "Moderation? Is it best self-applied, or externally imposed?" "Self-applied" is my preferred answer, and works pretty darned well throughout this org place. But lacking that in the ebt, 'externally applied' prevailed.
Frankly, I am surprised that you all are surprised. Swearing? Ppffft. You guys don't know the first thing about it.
Burnt cats, cartoon orgies, headless cadavers. I mean c'mon. YOU should have nuked the place yourselves. But you didn't. So the grown-ups had to do it for you. With predictable results.
Can you not see the ultimate consequence? Think ahead a day or week or month ahead?
Given what could have been the fate of the group, I would say they got off lucky, compared to the treatment they'd've likely received anywhere else on the 'net, including /4/chan.
And why is that?
Because, in this place, this totalwar-dot-org place, EVERYone has a valued voice. The newbie and the 10-year veteran have the same ability to solve a problem. Because each LISTENS to the other, with respect. So, members are given a time-out, vs a ban.
~~~~++++~~~~
So, what have we learnt from this exercise - exorcise-ism?
1) This is a nice place, where nobody gets ignored, about totalwar, as a game and/or a concept
2) This nice place has politeness/civility rules.
3) Those rules get enforced as problems arise
4) This is a nice place, where nobody gets ignored, about totalwar, as a game and/or a concept.
5) This nice place has politeness/civility rules.
6) Those rules get enforced as problems arise
Bah, I'm ignored all the time.
Heh. Yeah. The irony is thick.
Does this not prompt the question: "Moderation? Is it best self-applied, or externally imposed?" "Self-applied" is my preferred answer, and works pretty darned well throughout this org place. But lacking that in the ebt, 'externally applied' prevailed.
Frankly, I am surprised that you all are surprised. Swearing? Ppffft. You guys don't know the first thing about it.
Burnt cats, cartoon orgies, headless cadavers. I mean c'mon. YOU should have nuked the place yourselves. But you didn't. So the grown-ups had to do it for you. With predictable results.
Can you not see the ultimate consequence? Think ahead a day or week or month ahead?
Given what could have been the fate of the group, I would say they got off lucky, compared to the treatment they'd've likely received anywhere else on the 'net, including /4/chan.
And why is that?
Because, in this place, this totalwar-dot-org place, EVERYone has a valued voice. The newbie and the 10-year veteran have the same ability to solve a problem. Because each LISTENS to the other, with respect. So, members are given a time-out, vs a ban.
~~~~++++~~~~
So, what have we learnt from this exercise - exorcise-ism?
1) This is a nice place, where nobody gets ignored, about totalwar, as a game and/or a concept
2) This nice place has politeness/civility rules.
3) Those rules get enforced as problems arise
4) This is a nice place, where nobody gets ignored, about totalwar, as a game and/or a concept.
5) This nice place has politeness/civility rules.
6) Those rules get enforced as problems arise
The post in 2 sentences:
The org is awesome and impeccable.
Every taverner is a troll and a stupid ignorant kid.
Sorry, but you too obviously have not read a single post by AVSM or me.
Why are we ignored all the time?
Bah, I'm ignored all the time.I'm sorry but you only made one post here and it was something like "lol why did that happen, i hope all is well soon."
;)
Burnt cats, cartoon orgies, headless cadavers. I mean c'mon. YOU should have nuked the place yourselves. But you didn't. So the grown-ups had to do it for you. With predictable results.
Blame AP then! He posted the damn cat and cadaver (cartoon orgies? now i don't even remember that, I have lurked constantly for a year and a half now).
Because, in this place, this totalwar-dot-org place, EVERYone has a valued voice. The newbie and the 10-year veteran have the same ability to solve a problem. Because each LISTENS to the other, with respect. So, members are given a time-out, vs a ban.
Haha, good one.
Also, that Klausen or whatever, is not part of the Tavern at all. I don't know who he is. If anyone, ban people like him who posts that crap in public.
I'm sorry but you only made one post here and it was something like "lol why did that happen, i hope all is well soon."
;)
That was in general, not this thread in-particular.
It's already been said many times by your own members that rules were broken in the tavern. Tosa deleted it because of that, and I doubt there is any way to get back any of the things that were lost in the mass deletion. That was his decision to make, since he spends his time with the upkeep of this site. I don't see what any of you are trying to do by arguing in this thread. I'm fairly certain that nothing is going to change by doing so. You can go and try to put back together what was lost, or continue complaining about something that you can't change. It's your choice.
I like complaining.
Carry on then
Togakure
12-19-2009, 08:22
Why not side-step this whole issue as someone else suggested and make your own board? There are plenty of free ones out there. Then you could password it, control membership, and behind closed doors do whatever the bleep you wanted.
If no one has the ability, or time or whatever, hell, I administrate a Yuku board that isn't used much anymore. I can set up a private forum only you guys can see, that requires membership or a password to enter, and then you guys can do whatever you want in there and leave the Org in peace. That is, if there is truth in what's been said about just wanting a place to hang out. I'd just like to see this thread go to sleep.
pevergreen
12-19-2009, 08:28
If no one has the ability, or time or whatever, hell, I administrate a Yuku board that isn't used much anymore. I can set up a private forum only you guys can see, that requires membership or a password to enter, and then you guys can do whatever you want in there and leave the Org in peace. That is, if there is truth in what's been said about just wanting a place to hang out. I'd just like to see this thread go to sleep.
Along that road, I've got a fully setup forum site that hasnt been visited by anyone but me in the last year, I'll gladly hand over admin of it. (linky dink: http://blackgryphon.15.forumer.com/index.php?)
I think what has been said is all that has been said. "talking about" it anymore will not get anywhere since even though there are posts, people aren't actually communicating.
There are also guest posts from random accounts, such as we saw, really paint the EB members possibly worse than they actually are, if it wasn't them who posted them in the first place.
In the tradition sense, this thread needs a nappy time and the new EB Tavern is now up.
I'm sorry, am I suddenly in the business of satisfying your curiosity? Am I supposed to hunt through all of the infractions that have been accrued in the last year, correlate them with my PM box and find you examples, which you will doubtless dismiss anyway?
If you make a statement like that, you are the one who is expected to provide. Why should I be obliged to find something which I know is not true?
I am not in the habit of lying or misrepresenting the truth. It's something of a personal fetish. If my word isn't good enough for you, then we have nothing more to discuss.
Yes, I an see that. We are not accusing you are. But you're not addressing our concerns.
Gee, it's too bad there's no unmoderated places where you can talk for free on the internet tubes (http://www.thefreecountry.com/scripthosting/messageboards.shtml).
Did you even read my posts?
Heh. Yeah. The irony is thick.
Does this not prompt the question: "Moderation? Is it best self-applied, or externally imposed?" "Self-applied" is my preferred answer, and works pretty darned well throughout this org place. But lacking that in the ebt, 'externally applied' prevailed.
Frankly, I am surprised that you all are surprised. Swearing? Ppffft. You guys don't know the first thing about it.
We are willing and we are able to impose moderation to get rid of isolated incidents like Zippocat.
Burnt cats, cartoon orgies, headless cadavers. I mean c'mon. YOU should have nuked the place yourselves. But you didn't. So the grown-ups had to do it for you. With predictable results.
The first and last one were posted by the same member, and were dealt with, whilst the second one had no connection to the EB Tavern.
Given what could have been the fate of the group, I would say they got off lucky, compared to the treatment they'd've likely received anywhere else on the 'net, including /4/chan.
If you think that that would have got you banned at 4chan, then you are oh so woefully mistaken. We are very tame compared to most of the stuff on the internet, and we like it that way. If we wanted to see pictures of burning cats all the time, we wouldn't be here.
And why is that?
Because, in this place, this totalwar-dot-org place, EVERYone has a valued voice. The newbie and the 10-year veteran have the same ability to solve a problem. Because each LISTENS to the other, with respect. So, members are given a time-out, vs a ban.
That's what we're doing, and is why we're not resorting to "omg mods are gay". I know that the org works like that and it is just one of the many features I like about the org. They make the org a nice place to be. However, they are being too rigidly enforced, and are proving detrimental to a substantial proportion of the org's members.
The post in 2 sentences:
The org is awesome and impeccable.
Every taverner is a troll and a stupid ignorant kid.
Sorry, but you too obviously have not read a single post by AVSM or me.
Why are we ignored all the time?
1000% true. I am spending a lot of time responding to every meaningful post, and I don't even get replies. It's quite annoying, as well as rude.
Bah, I'm ignored all the time.
I responded to you :3
It's already been said many times by your own members that rules were broken in the tavern.
The vast vast majority of those rules were just profanity. We weren't running some kind of crime den or something. Yet the knee-jerk reaction of "If all else fails, use fire" didn't solve anything.
Why not side-step this whole issue as someone else suggested and make your own board? There are plenty of free ones out there. Then you could password it, control membership, and behind closed doors do whatever the bleep you wanted.
If no one has the ability, or time or whatever, hell, I administrate a Yuku board that isn't used much anymore. I can set up a private forum only you guys can see, that requires membership or a password to enter, and then you guys can do whatever you want in there and leave the Org in peace. That is, if there is truth in what's been said about just wanting a place to hang out. I'd just like to see this thread go to sleep.
That's considerate, but not feasible. Not only is that unlikely to work, as we'll lose some friends in transition, What is the point of having two separate forums, where all the members of one forum are members of another, and majority of the discussion in the first one relates to discussion in the second one?
I think what has been said is all that has been said. "talking about" it anymore will not get anywhere since even though there are posts, people aren't actually communicating.
I am communicating. I am responding to every point made, and a lot of the EB Tavern members are responding as well. We're just subject to cherry-picking.
There are also guest posts from random accounts, such as we saw, really paint the EB members possibly worse than they actually are, if it wasn't them who posted them in the first place.
Why would we post something that isn't true?
********************
It appears that my posts are still being ignored by the vast majority of the respondents here, so I'll just post this. What is wrong, with having a voluntary section of the org where the following
I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's
It would not impact on the majority of the people who use the .org in any way. Sure, it might have done in the past, but since we've seen how touchy the mods are about it affecting other parts of the forum, we promise to not to.
And don't give me any of the stupid "4 Rules Good, 2 Rules Bad", since I know that none of you are stupid enough to think that rules are impeccable. Don't attempt to convince me otherwise.
Krusader
12-19-2009, 11:55
I think what has been said is all that has been said. "talking about" it anymore will not get anywhere since even though there are posts, people aren't actually communicating.
There are also guest posts from random accounts, such as we saw, really paint the EB members possibly worse than they actually are, if it wasn't them who posted them in the first place.
In the tradition sense, this thread needs a nappy time and the new EB Tavern is now up.
I assume you mean EB Tavern members?
I think this thread is funny, I like it when people are oppressed.
Carry on people and give those EB-nazis a smack across the face and a punch in the stomach, verbally of course.
If you make a statement like that, you are the one who is expected to provide. Why should I be obliged to find something which I know is not true?
Well, I'm not Lemur but I too have noticed that EB tavern members have behaved like Lemur says but I sure as limbo couldn't give an example or find a post, yet i know it happened. And i know that people actually noticed that "the EB tavern guys are invading the Frontroom" so you people must have done something different to get that amount of attention. That's not our or the mods' fault, you're the ones who drew that attention onto yourselves. If you're trying to say the mods are looking for some people to oppress now and then, then let me pull a Tribesman here: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::lau gh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Alexander the Pretty Good
12-19-2009, 15:57
That's what we're doing, and is why we're not resorting to "omg mods are gay". I know that the org works like that and it is just one of the many features I like about the org. They make the org a nice place to be. However, they are being too rigidly enforced, and are proving detrimental to a substantial proportion of the org's members.
How many are there of you that you now constitute a "substantial proportion" of Org membership? I think that the substantial proportion of the Org membership has zero problems following Org policies. Why are you special?
Pannonian
12-19-2009, 17:05
Heh. Yeah. The irony is thick.
Does this not prompt the question: "Moderation? Is it best self-applied, or externally imposed?" "Self-applied" is my preferred answer, and works pretty darned well throughout this org place. But lacking that in the ebt, 'externally applied' prevailed.
My preferred form of self-applied moderation is the killfile. Bozos belong to the bozo bin, and vBulletin's Ignore function doesn't come close to satisfying the salient feature of the killfile - entirely hiding the existence of internet idiots so the signal to noise ratio is kept reasonable. Score files are even better, as one can cover whole ranges using wildcards.
My preferred form of self-applied moderation is the killfile. Bozos belong to the bozo bin, and vBulletin's Ignore function doesn't come close to satisfying the salient feature of the killfile - entirely hiding the existence of internet idiots so the signal to noise ratio is kept reasonable. Score files are even better, as one can cover whole ranges using wildcards.
???????
What are bozos, killfiles and score files if I may ask?
Pannonian
12-19-2009, 17:46
???????
What are bozos, killfiles and score files if I may ask?
What is a Killfile? (http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq11-kill.html)
Well, I'm not Lemur but I too have noticed that EB tavern members have behaved like Lemur says but I sure as limbo couldn't give an example or find a post, yet i know it happened. And i know that people actually noticed that "the EB tavern guys are invading the Frontroom" so you people must have done something different to get that amount of attention. That's not our or the mods' fault, you're the ones who drew that attention onto yourselves.
The frontroom? I rarely went there, and when I did, the only other regular patron I saw there was Meth, and possibly Azathoth. Maybe there was some confusion as to actually was an EB Tavern Patron.
If you're trying to say the mods are looking for some people to oppress now and then, then let me pull a Tribesman here: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::lau gh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I personally don't think that. I think that 95% of the time, they do a great job, and that moderation of that quality was common across other forums. The other 5% though, is excessive.
How many are there of you that you now constitute a "substantial proportion" of Org membership?
Since when has "substantial proportion" meant majority? I did not write majority, nor did I intend to write majority. It is quite obvious that both of those are true.
I think that the substantial proportion of the Org membership has zero problems following Org policies.
As do I, the vast majority of the time. You seem to have us confused with trolls.
Why are you special?
Didn't I already tell you to stop being condescending? Yeah, I thought so. It's getting a bit annoying now having to respond to statements which have no discernible meaning or content.
My preferred form of self-applied moderation is the killfile. Bozos belong to the bozo bin, and vBulletin's Ignore function doesn't come close to satisfying the salient feature of the killfile - entirely hiding the existence of internet idiots so the signal to noise ratio is kept reasonable. Score files are even better, as one can cover whole ranges using wildcards.
So basically, Kill it with Fire. So what defines a bozo?
Oh btw, no-one has responded to my question yet. I'll post it again, so you don't have to scroll up.
What is wrong, with having a voluntary, hidden section of the org where the following existed
I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's
It would not impact on the majority of the people who use the .org in any way. Sure, it might have done in the past, but since we've seen how touchy the mods are about it affecting other parts of the forum, we promise to not to.
And don't give me any of the stupid "4 Rules Good, 2 Rules Bad", since I know that none of you are stupid enough to think that rules are impeccable. Don't attempt to convince me otherwise.
pevergreen
12-20-2009, 03:54
Because you will, as a group, go back to what you were.
ACIN trolls everywhere.
Quite a few of you are fine. yourself and AVSM come to mind. Meth trolls as well, Aza is fine, I don't see Fixi.
The 'few' ruin it for the 'many'.
Get over it.
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