The Byzantine Symbol

[DemonArchangel]

What does the cross with a 2nd bar through it mean? Is it the cross that constantine saw etched onto the sun?

[rasoforos]

i suppose this one. although the byzantine war banner was different. a 2 headed eagle in black in a red background

[Nowake]

I think it has something to do with the tomb of Christ ...

[ShadesPanther]

Yes there is a relic in constantinople that looks like it. Cant remember its significance though

[kataphraktoi]

The little 2nd Bar is foot support, on some byzantine icons u can notice christ's feet on the 2nd bar.

Hmmm if u want to be malevolent do what some byzantines did and substitute the 2nd bar with a crescent, the crescent represents the trampling of the cross over the muslim crescent... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif they think of everything.

hmmm heres a little tidbit:
The inventor of Greek Fire lived in UMMAYAD territory when he invented it, the army commander in Attaleia (South West Turkey) smuggled Callinicus from Baalbek, that meant that the Ummayads had Greek Fire under their noses and lost it cos the guy who made it was smuggled from Syria ahahyahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha coudln;t believe it when i read it.

Finders keepers.

[Papewaio]

Syria smuggling WMD who would have ever have thought of that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

The byzantine flag originally had a crecent and star but it was "islamised" when the turks invaded.just a small peice of info,cuz we were'nt using any before the turks came http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[kataphraktoi]

Faisal when I meant crescent I did not mean the islamic one I meant the an alternate cross where the 2nd bar was substituted with the crescent representing the cross victorious over islam, you can find this byzantine manuscripts and illustrations, it was passed down to the Russians as well. Ivan the Terrible erected these crosses on his buildings celerating his victory over the Khanates of southern Russia.

Say what do Arabs think of Turks, did they contribute anything to Islam besides expanding its borders??????????///

[Leet Eriksson]

they did us one favour,they reversed the cross victorious over islam into the crecent victorious over christianity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif the only other thing they did was keep the muslim country in one peice,if it were'nt for lawrence and his band of mercenaries that he recruited from najd....

[kataphraktoi]

hahaha how true faisal how true faisal, the turks did reverse that triumph, it wasn't till after the 1500's that we reversed the trend on islam again.

ah the swinging pendulum of history.

But in this case it wasn;t the cross over the crescent, it was the cross plus dollar sign over the crescent leading to what we have as high imperialism leading to ww1.....

But in all seriousness faisal I meant cultural contributions of the Turks to the islamic world and the Arab world in particular.

[Leet Eriksson]

me and you probably have something in common,we both hate them for their intolerance of the people they conquered.The only contribution was inventing 3 types of arabic writing called El Madrasah El Othmania wich one of them is common nowadays.other than that we hate them,the massacres they did to us,and their racist approach to try and assimilate us.Thanks to lawrence all this have changed.

[kataphraktoi]

Faisal have you read Byzantine attitudes to Arabs????

While the monarchs of the West were considered "Archons" (rulers) the Byzantine Emperors considered the Caliphs "brothers", this in part reflects a previous affinity between Byzantium and Sassanid Persia.

Turks draw borders with swords, Byzantines and Arabs draw borders by civilised agreements and if all else fails a nice little border raid sufficed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Axelthorpe]

Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ April 18 2003,13:18)]Faisal have you read Byzantine attitudes to Arabs????

While the monarchs of the West were considered "Archons" (rulers) the Byzantine Emperors considered the Caliphs "brothers", this in part reflects a previous affinity between Byzantium and Sassanid Persia.

Turks draw borders with swords, Byzantines and Arabs draw borders by civilised agreements and if all else fails a nice little border raid sufficed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Call me stupid, but I thought the turks were arabs?

By the way, which countries/kingdoms are considered arabic?
In game? Almohads and Egyptians?
Historically?

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ April 29 2003,03:40)]
Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ April 18 2003,13:18)]Faisal have you read Byzantine attitudes to Arabs????

While the monarchs of the West were considered "Archons" (rulers) the Byzantine Emperors considered the Caliphs "brothers", this in part reflects a previous affinity between Byzantium and Sassanid Persia.

Turks draw borders with swords, Byzantines and Arabs draw borders by civilised agreements and if all else fails a nice little border raid sufficed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Call me stupid, but I thought the turks were arabs?

By the way, which countries/kingdoms are considered arabic?
In game? Almohads and Egyptians?
Historically?
The turks are not arabs , the Iranians are not Arabs either. Those two nations are often confused as being Arabic. The turks belong to a race related to the mongolians and they come from central/east asia. You can find them mentioned in Chinese texts far long b4 they appeared on western texts.

[Leet Eriksson]

The Almohads are not arabic,they were berbers,but they have been "arabicised" earlier.the egyptians were arabs,but in the high period they switch to mamelukes,who were of slavic origin(mostly that is).Izuldeen bin Abdul-Azees declared the mameluke sultanate pagan,until each and every mameluke prince "sells" himself to freedom,where they pay a certain amount of gold to the poor(more like charity),and then they would be set free.

The turks however,as rasforos suggested are not arabs,they just adopted persian/arabic style culture.

[Axelthorpe]

Ok, thanks for the quick answer

Another thing:
I can understand the berbic origin of the Almohads, but what with the egyptians, that the egyptians where "annexed" by the mameluks? You can't just switch culture

[Pablo Sanchez]

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ April 29 2003,09:50)]Ok, thanks for the quick answer

Another thing:
I can understand the berbic origin of the Almohads, but what with the egyptians, that the egyptians where "annexed" by the mameluks? You can't just switch culture
The Mamelukes were, IIRC, a military force assembled by the Fatimid Dynasty of Egypt, because he was a Shi'ite in a Sunni nation and everyone around him hated him. Therefore he bought Turkish slaves and used them as his army. They were very effective for quite a long time, perhaps a little too effective. After the Mamelukes managed a victory over the Mongols at Ayn Jalut, their leader siezed control of Egypt. They continued to rule as Shi'ites over Sunnis until the Turks came and smashed them.

[solypsist]

wrong forum.

[Leet Eriksson]

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ April 29 2003,09:50)]Ok, thanks for the quick answer

Another thing:
I can understand the berbic origin of the Almohads, but what with the egyptians, that the egyptians where "annexed" by the mameluks? You can't just switch culture
I guess Pablo answered that question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[BlackWatch McKenna]

Faisal mentioned Lawrence (of Arabia).

I am interested in hearing what folks think about him. I know not enough of him to even put forth an opinion (other than he looked skinny in the movie).

[Leet Eriksson]

hes the guy who drived out the turks from the middle east,and managed to make the Al Su'ud family the ruling family,erm,the people who are ruling suadia now,anyways,without him we would all be talking turkish now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif