Better diplomacy with Medium or Hard settings?

[fallen851]

Was wondering if the Very Hard setting had anything to do with the AI being completely radical (as in fight to the death WW2 Japanese style, regardless of the odds) in RTW. I seem to remember the AI being better when it came to diplomacy in my first campaign when I got RTW and played Medium/Medium.

And the monetary bonus (I seem to remember there being one for the AI on the Very Hard setting) could be replicated by increasing the bonus in the EB script.

Could anyone shed some light on the AI behavior?

[XSamatan]

Vh means all AI factions will ahte you from the beginning and will backstab you. Playing with BI/ALX expansion makes the AI behavior especially regarding to alliances better IMHO.

On medium you will see such things not, or at least not that much.

Be aware that the rebels won't attack you on medium or hard settings, also the AI will get no cash bonus.

So if you use FD (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80763), for me is VH the best.

XSamatan

[fallen851]

How about things on the bribing front? Is the AI less prone to bribe in medium?

Not really concerned about the rebels since I've really tempered down the chances of them appearing (in fact they almost never appear, just the way I like it. I like to play all my battles and battles against them are dull and boring). As I said, I can recreate the AI cash bonus in the script, so I'm not concerned about that either.

I think I am going to give this a shot.

[Cute Wolf]

The AI DID more prone for bribing in VH, for some unknown reason (got my diplomats spend most of the unneded minai at middle to late game giving alms to disband nasty brigand stacks). But in lesser difficulty, they somewhat depise the bribing system....

[Macilrille]

The AI diplomacy is definately more sensible on M/M. I am amusing myself by giving all factions a try one at a time in the order they are listed in in the start page to get a feel for them all and on M/M so as not to spend years on each.

I planned to give all a go till such a point it was inevitable that I would win. However, Baktria is such fun that I will give it a bit longer, am in fact. The VC are easily achieved compared to my usual Romans, so I set my own for Baktria and intend to achieve them.

Anyway, the AI diplomacy and foreign policy is much more sensible. Not everyone attack you when they border you and the AS sometimes come asking for peace, or accepts peace, in both instances paying either Mnai or handing over a province. Unfortunately it is not that much smarter, for in 75% of these peace-making turns, they attack again within one turn. I then send my diplomat to make peace (cause I have no wish to crush their core provinces, yet) and get either lots of Mnai or a province for free, got me four till now, but they are keeping it this time.

So the AI seems more sensible in its foreign policy on M/M- sort of. It is less kamikaze and neither Saka, nor Pahlava has attacked me despite common border!! Very unusual ;-)

Romanoiktoi, will love me playing Hellene factions and the fact that Epeiros, Carthage and Luso are crushing the Romans, I will post a pic for your enjoyment as a sort of X-mas present ;-)

[athanaric]

So the AI seems more sensible in its foreign policy on M/M- sort of. It is less kamikaze and neither Saka, nor Pahlava has attacked me despite common border!! Very unusual ;-)

Interestingly, I'm experiencing the same with Baktria - on H/M.

[johnhughthom]

I've never been able to confirm this myself, but I have read that the the AI doesn't recruit mercs on medium difficulty.

[burn_again]

The Ai does sometimes recruit mercenarys on M, it just does not spam them like on VH.
Also rebels can attack cities on M, but it is so rare that it might never happen in many campaigns.

[satalexton]

The rebels aren't agressive because they're broke from the beginning, use the console to give them a massive amount of cash every 4-6 turns, more if u like, and you'll see them roaming the map aggressively. They'll even recruit (if u gave them a LOT with the console) local elites, and those scripted super stacks may even roam around to pwn any unfortunate neighbours that's reachable within a turn. (the script places them back in the region if they leave it)

[fallen851]

Hmm the Mercenary things seems interesting. I wonder how medium and hard difficulty differ. Access to Mercenaries is important for the AI.

Either way, does the AI get a 10k bonus turn on VH? Does it get anything on hard? Adding in the script for this will be very easy, and I think that I will be able to enjoy EB much more if it works. Diplomacy is non-existent in VH and I prefer not to use FD because it ruins the randomness of the game.

You could play two campaigns and diplomacy should lead you in very different directions alone, while if you use FD, you're basically deciding how your wars are going to go.

[Macilrille]

This I cannot confirm, but I can say that Baktria is loads of fun. I just took Babylon and Seleuka, and exterminated the populace. Now consolidate and turn east for Pahlava and Saka. Loads of fun, though it pains me that Rome has fallen and only hold on to three measly little provs with Capua one and under siege from the Lusos, who has done extremely well- never saw that before. Pics coming.

[Gabeed]

Be aware that the rebels won't attack you on medium or hard settings, also the AI will get no cash bonus.
XSamatan

Actually, rebels attack you on the Hard setting, and I believe they get a small cash bonus (besides the scripted one), thus my preference for H.

[fallen851]

Hmm... I wonder why the EB recommends VH so much. I've played 3 campaigns on Very Hard, and never once did the Rebels attack me.

[Jebivjetar]

Do rebels attack AI controlled settlements on H/VH too?

[Skullheadhq]

Hmm... I wonder why the EB recommends VH so much. I've played 3 campaigns on Very Hard, and never once did the Rebels attack me.

It's quite unique, I once saw a screen of massive Eleutheroi armies besiege his Sweboz Empire, kinda maked me lol.

[bigmilt16]

While I can't speak to the merc' issue, I swear by M/M based on the diplomacy alone. The lack of AI bonus cash means that you can border a neutral faction w/o worry of senseless attacks. Also, it is MUCH easier to negotiate and bribe using diplomats.

BTW: the spawning rebels will attack you on M/H

[fallen851]

So you haven't noticed when playing on M/M if the AI is using Mercs?

[Epimetheus]

I tend to prefer Hard myself. Medium probably has the best AI diplomacy, but virtually no rebel atacks, and Very Hard has better AI recruitment, but constant war, so I choose to go with a compromise.

[Macilrille]

Well, as Baktria Ptolomai has declared foolishly (one very good fullstack went and Besieged Babylon, but Babylon and Seleuka was garrisioned by my two best fullstacks after taking those two cities and before turning east) and does the usual "An end to the war, perhaps... bla bla... but we are about even in strength, so I expect them to give in when I have crippled them. At least I hope so, for if so I will never go back to VH. I usually play as Rome and I find it repetetively monotemous to fight 2-5 battles against identical fullstacks on each "Front" every enemy turn with all AI factions throwing themselves against you despite the cost to them elsewhere. To me EB is about realism and the diplomatic system/AI foreign policy seems more realistic on Medium.

As a side note on AI, sensible AI is what keeps delaying World in Flames Computer version and has for 13 years, but they believe they can solve it, and my other favorite computer game has some very good AI scripts written as mods. That is the RPG BG-BGII-BGII SOA. Now I realise that it is a very large difference between BGII and RTW, and that BGII seems made to be modded, but at least we know that in one game very good scripts has been added for the dumb AI.

[fallen851]

I started a campaign as the Romans today on Medium, gave the AI a 10k bonus each turn via the script, and I'm enjoying it immensely. I've been able to get treaties much easier.

EB is much a better game in my opinion with on Medium. Now if only I could fix the after battle CTD's (1 in about every 8 battles for me)...

[Scutarii]

The AI on Medium still basically ignores any and all attempts at ceasefires from me with any faction except Rome.

Pontus (my favourites) never ever, ever, in over a cumulative 12 games, regardless of what I offer, or the situation will ever, ever get a ceasefire from any faction at any point in all of the universe.

Hell, I offered to give Asia Minor back to the Seleukids for a ceasefire (who are left with just one Indian province and the one near Egypt (Kyrene?)) with their entirety (and the Pahlava, Baktria and most of Egypt) held by me just to prove to myself that the AI is beyond stupid.

TW diplomacy has always annoyed me, so much so that the only time I partake in it now is when playing as either Rome (as the AI behaves sensibly then) or as Carthage (as I consider the more sensible option being to have almost no standing army and simply buy every province I want from the AI when playing as a nation of businessmen!)

[Macilrille]

I had the same experience with late Baktria and with the Getai.

As Rome no one has ever CF-ed me except for the first few turns.

Anyway, seems the AI diplomacy/foreign policy is inconsitent on all difficulty settings though possibly slightly more berserk on the higher ones. And I play 1.1, so I cannot even install Force Diplomacy :-(

[Smelly Jelly]

I noticed, playing as Rome, i could get a ceasefire with Carthage if i took no more than 3 provinces. Take more = eternal war. I also think country size/number of cities plays a role.

[Scutarii]

Even offering back territories taken wont allow a ceasefire.

Perhaps it is which territories you take. If you only take non homeland territories from an enemy they'll accept...

[seienchin]

Even offering back territories taken wont allow a ceasefire.

Perhaps it is which territories you take. If you only take non homeland territories from an enemy they'll accept...

Nope. Homeland is only a EB thing, no consequensens on anything hardcoded. :book:

[Cute Wolf]

Nope. Homeland is only a EB thing, no consequensens on anything hardcoded. :book:

Not in sense of EB, but something has to do with "home" factions in descr_regions

[Ludens]

Nope. Homeland is only a EB thing, no consequensens on anything hardcoded. :book:

As I've written before, I find that paying neighbouring factions a small regular tribute (200 mnai per turn) makes them less likely to attack me and more willing to accept proposals. It seems the A.I. has a hatred rating of the player that worsens over time, but by giving them a small thing every turn you reset that rating. However, if you take a town the A.I. regards as theirs, even this is not enough to prevent them from hating you. So yes, the A.I. does seem to consider certain cities as theirs, and won´t want to negotiate with you if you possess them.

[fallen851]

Well now that I've played it quite a bit, I believe EB is 10x more fun with M/M than M/VH. Not only does the AI use more of its own faction's units (less mercs, though it still does use mercs), the diplomacy makes a bit of sense (though not entirely logical), and the AI doesn't declare war on you as soon as your borders touch.

The only issue is that sometimes when I talk to other nations, they just start offering me cash. I got offered gifts of ~1500 from KH, then 12601 from Pontus. I accepted the former, but denied the later, I felt like it was cheating and didn't realize the AI just had cash to burn and was trying to buy me off.

Anyway that could be my own fault. To make sure the game wasn't too easy, I added to the EB script and gave every nation 10k per turn to replicate the 10k they get on VH.

[Unintended BM]

I've been playing M/M with Makedonia recently, and the AI is noticeably easier to manipulate on the campaign map. I took Greece, the Crimean towns, all of the islands around Greece, and Kypros. Normally if I try to expand into Asia Minor, AS or Ptolemy tries to attack, but I was actually able to buy Sardis off of the AS, and Ptolemy has threatened to attack, but they haven't yet. I pay off the AS with 200 mnai for 40 turns or something like that, and it seems to work. Plus, I've been sharing a border with Pontus for almost the entire game, and they've never attacked me, and I don't even pay them off. Same with Getai and Sauromatae, but they're not usually that aggressive anyway. M/M seems to make it so you can control your wars. I'm sure there are plenty of random attacks that happen still, but I haven't had any yet, and I'm in the 220s.

EDIT:
I just got Pontus to be my protectorate for 60000 mnai. On hard, I've offered hundreds of thousands to various factions and never got them to give up that easily.

[Macilrille]

Ludens, I can now disprove your theory about Alliance + 200 Mnai a turn = peaceful alliance. The Romans just betrayed my Sweboz despite me doing just that.

[Unintended BM]

Paying off factions doesn't mean they'll never attack, but it does seem to help.

[Ludens]

Ludens, I can now disprove your theory about Alliance + 200 Mnai a turn = peaceful alliance. The Romans just betrayed my Sweboz despite me doing just that.

:shrug: It isn't fool-proof, but I never wrote it was. It merely reduces the number of opportunistic attacks and make the A.I. more likely to accept diplomatic proposals.

[NikosMaximilian]

And apart from paying them, you shouldn't send spies to their cities. Also, keep your armies away from the shared border. That reduces the chances of the AI attacking a lot.

[Macilrille]

No armies on border (or they would not have reached and besieged my city), no spies in their cities, no provocation at all.
I can post pics, in fact I saved their behinds from the Aedui a couple of years before. They then did the typical AI idiocy and pushed N in one province's breadth and tried to take Bagacos from me.

Never again will I stoop to paying anyone and demeaning myself by cowardly trying to bribe them, I will crush every neighbour who does not bow and pay me tribute!

[Ludens]

And apart from paying them, you shouldn't send spies to their cities.

The presence of spies does not seem to influence diplomatic relations. Spies getting caught do.