Dutch and UK members

[Fragony]

Be a good boy/girl and sign this petition.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/NLforIce/

Can't do that to them.

[Subotan]

Done. I don't want Iceland being transformed to a colony of the UK.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Be a good boy/girl and sign this petition.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/NLforIce/

Can't do that to them.Or alternativly, Fragony, you could vote anti-plundercapitalism next time. So the poor people in Iceland do not have to pay the rich people in the Netherlands and the UK for the mistakes of Iceland's rich.

[Fragony]

Or alternativly, Fragony, you could vote anti-plundercapitalism next time. So the poor people in Iceland do not have to pay the rich people in the Netherlands and the UK for the mistakes of Iceland's rich.

But I am Dutch.

Oh they liked that bubble they were living on. But Dutch government is just covering up their own failure and is now flexing their muscles at the expense of a pretty much bankrupt country, our central bank was too busy with the social side of things they screwed up badly.

[rory_20_uk]

Where was all the action when they were living off their massive "success"? Where were the petitions against the banks that they should be aware they are insuring in case of a "black swan" event?

They made their bed, now it's time to lie in it.

~:smoking:

[Furunculus]

Where was all the action when they were living off their massive "success"? Where were the petitions against the banks that they should be aware they are insuring in case of a "black swan" event?

They made their bed, now it's time to lie in it.

~:smoking:

agreed, moral hazard is the alternative.

[johnhughthom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8441312.stm

[Beskar]

I am sure Bjorgolfur Thor Bjorgolfsson will come and save the day and bail out the Country.

[Pannonian]

Done. I don't want Iceland being transformed to a colony of the UK.
Didn't England used to be a viking colony? If England could live with being ruled by a Danish Cnut, I don't see why Iceland can't live with being ruled by an English Cnut.

[rory_20_uk]

1066 was the last time a Viking had to be politely informed that the throne of England was not his (battle of Stamford Bridge); of course the Normans (Northernmen) were also descended from Vikings...

~:smoking:

[Pannonian]

1066 was the last time a Viking had to be politely informed that the throne of England was not his (battle of Stamford Bridge); of course the Normans (Northernmen) were also descended from Vikings...

~:smoking:
So it's time for revenge. And from his tenure as PM, you have to admit Gordon Brown is a bit of a Cnut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great).

[cegorach]

Icelanders elected their government which could notice that Icelandic law makes the country responsible for actions of their banking sector, including branches established abroad.

It is not like some foreign power made them do it.
It is not like some incompetent tyrant runs their country with iron fist and used those money to pay for drugs, hookers and keeps the rest in a Swiss bank.

I am sorry buy you are paying for your debts.
Sometimes you can negotiate - especially under special circumstances, but there are rules.
Otherwise - 'we don't have you coat and what are you going to do about it?' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5aF2CSwNTU&feature=related).

My country had to pay billions in interest rates in for money borrowed in the 1970s. Sizable part was cancelled, but only because there were special circumstances to consider (for example the country simply bankrupted).

With Iceland there aren't any trully exceptional factors to consider.


Besides several countries recently lent money to Iceland (including Poland) and I don't think the money are much different from the fortune lost due to the economic crisis.

It might be an unusual situation, but that is not enough.
You failed to negotiate better conditions you pay the consequences even if it seems or just is unfair.

[Fragony]

It is not their fault, let's just take our losses, we have been scammed pretty badly, but only by a few. But we don't have a right on the money of the people of Iceland. I want a few double-edged stakes, but I don't have to travel that far for a good place to put them.

[Justiciar]

Signed.

[tibilicus]

We should annex them, make them feel the imperial fist of Britain smash into their homes as punishment for the ridiculous lack of skill their bank managers possessed.

[Justiciar]

Aye. Beat the splinter out of thy neighbour's eye. Don't want to use your fists? Use the plank in thine own! :2thumbsup:

[InsaneApache]

No.

[Megas Methuselah]

Iceland's a cool place.

[Justiciar]

No.There's money at stake, and you're a Yorkshireman. I'd be both horrified and deeply dissappointed were you to say otherwise.

[Viking]

Iceland's a cool place.

It's hotter than you think.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's hotter than you think.I suppose this then is the moment where we can finally devote our attention to more pressing matters, namely Iceland's limitless natural resource of geothermal hotness:




https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/354/icelandbluelagoon01.jpg

[Kralizec]

Where was all the action when they were living off their massive "success"? Where were the petitions against the banks that they should be aware they are insuring in case of a "black swan" event?

They made their bed, now it's time to lie in it.

~:smoking:

I tend to agree...

In the event of foreclosure, we call dibs on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%BEingish%C3%BAsi%C3%B0)

[Pannonian]

I suppose this then is the moment where we can finally devote our attention to more pressing matters, namely Iceland's limitless natural resource of geothermal hotness:

I think it's interesting how the junction of tectonic plates can also produce such warm, clear blue water. Before geological sciences developed, we believed volcanoes to be the work of gods. But now that we better understand geology, we better understand their creation.

https://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/pannonian/BlueLagoonatSvartsengi.jpg

https://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/pannonian/BQcD.jpg

[Louis VI the Fat]

I think it's interesting how the junction of tectonic plates can also produce such warm, clear blue water. Before geological sciences developed, we believed volcanoes to be the work of gods. But now that we better understand geology, we better understand their creation.

https://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/pannonian/BlueLagoonatSvartsengi.jpg

You get this a lot in Iceland. Located on a fault line, all over the island you find impressive cleavage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_%28geology%29) with high rising mountains on either side. Very pointy mountains too since they are still young. Interesting is that at the lower levels the landscape is often hot and constantly wet. :book:

[tibilicus]

Turns out this isn't the first time the UK and Iceland have clashed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

THE COD WARS.

Why was I not made aware of this magnificent event sooner?

[InsaneApache]

There's money at stake, and you're a Yorkshireman. I'd be both horrified and deeply dissappointed were you to say otherwise.

Aye, I may well live in Yorksheer, but I'm a mancunian, man and boy. :beam: I can do that thingy the tykes do though, rattling the change in your pocket without letting anyone see how much you've got. :laugh4:

[InsaneApache]

Turns out this isn't the first time the UK and Iceland have clashed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

THE COD WARS.

Why was I not made aware of this magnificent event sooner?

Because we lost. :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

1066 was the last time a Viking had to be politely informed that the throne of England was not his (battle of Stamford Bridge); of course the Normans (Northernmen) were also descended from Vikings...

~:smoking:

The Normans were vikings.

[Skullheadhq]

Signed, really, how can you ask 2,8 billion dollars of a population of 500.000 people.Thats 56000 euros per inhabitant including children and old people:inquisitive:

[HoreTore]

You get this a lot in Iceland. Located on a fault line, all over the island you find impressive cleavage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_%28geology%29) with high rising mountains on either side. Very pointy mountains too since they are still young. Interesting is that at the lower levels the landscape is often hot and constantly wet. :book:

Just what I needed to read before I'm going to bed, Louis....

[Vladimir]

Penetrative cleavage

A penetrative or continuous cleavage is present throughout the rock apparently down to the grain scale. Microscopic examination however, generally shows that such cleavage is domainal in nature with discrete cleavage lamellae in otherwise undeformed rock.[3]




Internet filth!

[Subotan]

Aye, I may well live in Yorksheer, but I'm a mancunian, man and boy. :beam: I can do that thingy the tykes do though, rattling the change in your pocket without letting anyone see how much you've got. :laugh4:

As a Lancastrian, it's pleasing to hear that I don't have to share the board with a Yorkshireman :yes:

[Watchman]

The Normans were vikings.Since when did Vikings speak French and fight as mounted lancers ? :huh:

[Beskar]

As a Lancastrian, it's pleasing to hear that I don't have to share the board with a Yorkshireman :yes:

Where about in Lancashire are you?

I was born, breed and been all over the place here.

[Pannonian]

Where about in Lancashire are you?

I was born, breed and been all over the place here.
You were born all over the place in Lancashire? Was it a messy birth or something? Also, if you're breeding all over the place, perhaps you should think about using contraceptive.

[Beskar]

I was talking about my breeding (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=breeding). Also, they were seperate incidences, so not "born all over the place" there.

[Watchman]

I believe "breed" is the present tense; the past tense would be "bred"... which would in this particular case still be fair game for off-color jibes, mind you. :eyebrows:

[Subotan]

Where about in Lancashire are you?

I was born, breed and been all over the place here.

Well I wasn't born here, that was done in Belfast, but I live in Ormskirk and have done for over a decade. You?

[InsaneApache]

Ormskirk! I bet you really live in Skem. :wink:

[Vladimir]

Since when did Vikings speak French and fight as mounted lancers ? :huh:

The same time they invaded England from the south.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Since when did Vikings speak French and fight as mounted lancers ? :huh:

Since they became Normans and converted to christianity (though they did fight on horceback before then, as you will know.)

[Watchman]

Viking Age Scandinavians aren't exactly famed for their cavalry arm you know. Unlike their postcarolingian Continental European contemporaries.

The Normans by William the Bastard's time were about as "Viking" as their French contemporaries were still "Germanic".

[Subotan]

Ormskirk! I bet you really live in Skem. :wink:

Nah, too many roundabouts :laugh4:

[Fragony]

Since when did Vikings speak French and fight as mounted lancers ? :huh:

Vladimir is right

[Wishazu]

I won`t be signing. Iceland can cough up.

Remember the Cod Wars! :smash:

[Romanus]

Let them pay.

[HoreTore]

Let them pay.

yes, but who should pay?

Why should the Icelandic citizens pay because of the greed of dutch and british speculants?

[Vladimir]

yes, but who should pay?

Why should the Icelandic citizens pay because of the greed of dutch and british speculants?

Wasn't it the greed of Icelandic government officials that is responsible?

If they don't pay now it's likely they'll pay in the future. Who would do business in Iceland?

[HoreTore]

Wasn't it the greed of Icelandic government officials that is responsible?

If they don't pay now it's likely they'll pay in the future. Who would do business in Iceland?

Nobody forced the brits nor the dutch to place their money in Icelandic banks. Their greed blinded them to the dangers, and now they lost.

Tough luck, I say.

[Vladimir]

Nobody forced the brits nor the dutch to place their money in Icelandic banks. Their greed blinded them to the dangers, and now they lost.

Tough luck, I say.

So you're saying that if she didn't want to be raped she wouldn't have worn that outfit.

Stop it.

[Beskar]

Nobody forced the brits nor the dutch to place their money in Icelandic banks. Their greed blinded them to the dangers, and now they lost.

Tough luck, I say.

Acually, Law protects desposits in banks. Iceland is refusing to follow its own laws just because they are foriegn.

[Subotan]

There are plenty of Icelanders (Sp?) who aren't responsible for the Icesave debacle. And yet the British government wants to punish the entire nation. If China did something like this to us, The Cabinet would have a collective stroke.


So you're saying that if she didn't want to be raped she wouldn't have worn that outfit.

That's the dumbest comparison I've ever heard.

[Beskar]

Yes, but the government nationalised the bank. This means the government now has to pay for it and where will the government get their money? Out of the taxes, which comes from the icelanders.

[Vladimir]

Nobody forced the brits nor the dutch to place their money in Icelandic banks. Their greed blinded them to the dangers, and now they lost.

Tough luck, I say.


Yes, but the government nationalised the bank. This means the government now has to pay for it and where will the government get their money? Out of the taxes, which comes from the icelanders.

Excellent illustration. The government chose to take this risk and now doesn't want to take responsibility. Instead of comparing Britain or Holland to China they should consider Iceland. Instead of a limited number of investors or customers, the whole nation is bearing the brunt.

Is this about intentions? Is it because people think private investors are sinister and the state virtuous? The government, the state, decided to use all its citizens as collateral when mortgaging their future.

[Skullheadhq]

Why should innocent citizens who are poor thanks to the crisis already, pay for what greedy banks did, Vladimir? Think about that...
Would you pay a few thousand euros to another country because, let's say, the ABN f***** up things?

[Vladimir]

Why should innocent citizens who are poor thanks to the crisis already, pay for what greedy banks did, Vladimir? Think about that...
Would you pay a few thousand euros to another country because, let's say, the ABN f***** up things?

The poor citizens should pay because their greedy government decided to risk the livelihood of its citizens all for a quick buck.

So are we saying that because the government owned the banks that they don't bear any responsibility? Good luck with future investment.

[HoreTore]

The poor citizens should pay because their greedy government decided to risk the livelihood of its citizens all for a quick buck.

The poor investors should pay because their greedy selves decided to risk their livelihoods for a quick buck.

[Vladimir]

The poor investors should pay because their greedy selves decided to risk their livelihoods for a quick buck.

Don't you see? That's exactly the situation their government is in. I suspect you're not all that serious as you can easily replace "investors" with state. One could argue that their government is causing far greater harm to its citizens by refusing to pay up. What's Iceland's bond rating? Junk (http://www.bonds.is/assets/daily/islb193.htm). Do you have any idea how much money they're loosing?

Two of the three agencies rating the Iceland sovereign immediately changed Iceland's ratings for the worse following the announcement yesterday that the legislation on the Icesave agreements would be subject to a referendum. Fitch Ratings was the first to move, downgrading the sovereign rating for foreign currency issues to BB+ and BBB+ from BBB- and A- respectively. This puts Treasury issues for the first time in the junk bond class, and in addition the outlook for both long-term ratings is negative. Shortly afterwards, S&P placed its BBB-/A-3 foreign currency and BBB+/A-2 local currency sovereign credit ratings on the Republic of Iceland on CreditWatch with negative implications

They better find oil under those hot springs.

[Beskar]

Well, Iceland could have just let the banks go bankrupt, then they wouldn't have to accept any responsibility at all then.

[Vladimir]

Well, Iceland could have just let the banks go bankrupt, then they wouldn't have to accept any responsibility at all then.

And that's a good example of a tough decision they may have made (*thinking of "too big to fail" argument). It's a big :daisy: sandwich. However, it's better to let the banks go bust than the government.

[HoreTore]

Don't you see? That's exactly the situation their government is in. I suspect you're not all that serious as you can easily replace "investors" with state.

You can also easily replace "state" with "investors" in your argument, so.....

Anyway. The brits and dutch who placed their money in icelandic banks did so because they could earn money while sitting on their behinds.

They get no sympathy from me.

[johnhughthom]

I was speaking to an Icelandic colleague who is in Belfast this week for a training course and she believes the Icelandic taxpayers should be paying it. She said pretty much everybody she has spoken to back home sees it as a matter of national pride and wanted it to be sorted as quickly as possible.
She also confirmed that strange Icelandic surname practice that I have read about a few times but never quite believed for some reason.

[Beskar]

And that's a good example of a tough decision they may have made (*thinking of "too big to fail" argument). It's a big :daisy: sandwich. However, it's better to let the banks go bust than the government.

The thing is, the country did go bust. Hence why the IMF are trying to save them and it is also why Iceland is running to the European Union and wanting fast-tracked membership, so the EU can bail them out.

[Beskar]

You can also easily replace "state" with "investors" in your argument, so.....

Anyway. The brits and dutch who placed their money in icelandic banks did so because they could earn money while sitting on their behinds.

They get no sympathy from me.

The Icelanders did the same in British banks, should we tell them they can't have their money back either?

I remember they changed the British classification of Iceland to a terrorist state, to legally stop Iceland from withdrawing its investments in Britain, because they refuse to pay up ours in theirs.

On another forum, this Icelander guy was raging angry about Britain ranking Iceland as a terrorist state saying how awful it was. I just logically argued it is Iceland's fault for taking our money and refusing to return it, when by their own law they have to return the money.

Iceland are a bunch of hypocrites, they hate it that people do it to them because they won't return the money peoples legally own.

[Skullheadhq]

Citizens of Iceland: 319,756
Money Asked: 3,800,000,000
is 11844€ for every citizen....
I wouldn't pay that to greedy bastarrds, when you speculate, you take risks, and when it failed, you shouldn't blame it on the innocent citizens of the country but on your greedy self.

[HoreTore]

The Icelanders did the same in British banks, should we tell them they can't have their money back either?

If the British banks have failed; sure.

[Skullheadhq]

Iceland a terrorist state?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
I haven't yet seen a terrorist training camp up there in the far north, maybe santa is training suicide elves there...

Achmed, kill that infidel polar bear!:laugh4:

Gordon Brown is a joke, and so is Britain (and the Netherlands for that matter).

[Fragony]

Citizens of Iceland: 319,756
Money Asked: 3,800,000,000
is 11844€ for every citizen....
I wouldn't pay that to greedy bastarrds, when you speculate, you take risks, and when it failed, you shouldn't blame it on the innocent citizens of the country but on your greedy self.

Ya, money has gone to stranger things then Iceland. Keep the bloody money.

[al Roumi]

I thought Iceland had to agree some way out of this before the IMF bailout can kick in?

[King Henry V]

Pah, seems like the Dutchies are getting as soft as the lily-livered people on this island. If those rogues in Iceland can't cough up, then I think it's time to take a leaf out of what we did in Egyptback in '82: sail the fleet to Rekjavik, bombard the place and take over that God-forsaken country as an Anglo-Dutch condominium.

[al Roumi]

Pah, seems like the Dutchies are getting as soft as the lily-livered people on this island. If those rogues in Iceland can't cough up, then I think it's time to take a leaf out of what we did in Egyptback in '82: sail the fleet to Rekjavik, bombard the place and take over that God-forsaken country as an Anglo-Dutch condominium.

Smashing plan old bean, Knutt won't know what's hit him and we'll all be home by christmas.

[Skullheadhq]

Great plan, except that the dutch army is composed out of ***s

[johnhughthom]

Great plan, except that the dutch army is composed out of ***s

Cows?

[Skullheadhq]

They can fight as good as cows...

[Subotan]

Pah, seems like the Dutchies are getting as soft as the lily-livered people on this island. If those rogues in Iceland can't cough up, then I think it's time to take a leaf out of what we did in Egyptback in '82: sail the fleet to Rekjavik, bombard the place and take over that God-forsaken country as an Anglo-Dutch condominium.

Reyjavik-on-Suez?

[Vladimir]

Great plan, except that the dutch army is composed out of ***s

Nuts?

[Viking]

POWs?

[Kralizec]

:inquisitive:

In all seriousness, a lot of economists seem to think that Iceland wouldn't be able to pay back all that money in the alotted time, and trying to do so would only ruin Iceland's economy further.
My first reaction was that they've got only themselves to blame for all this and that they should cough up the money already, but insisting that they pay everything back in 15 years time is just a spiteful act as it's probably impossible for them to comply.

[Furunculus]

they'll pay one way or another, either in debt repayment or higher interest debt borrowing in future:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6986140/Why-a-debt-jubilee-is-not-the-answer-to-Britains-prayers.html

[Fragony]

They can fight as good as cows...

What makes you think that one of the world most professional and high-tech offensive army's can fight only as good as cows, these guys are good.

[Skullheadhq]

these guys are good.

In barbequeing yes, in that they are the very best and most experienced...

See this ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ7woyumciQ&feature=PlayList&p=9F26A4FB4824CE49&index=0&playnext=1
or english (shortened)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIxrCOM01lM&feature=related

The heroism of the dutch armed forces :clown:
The ashamed guys is the highest general at that time and the other guy is Mladic.

[Fragony]

Little clip from Afghanistan, as you can see they are pro's. Can't blame the soldiers for politicians thinking Serbs won't shoot if you go in lightly armed against tanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX01miySwkI Journalist got a little bit more then he bargained for.

[Skullheadhq]

Should I upload the vid were the armed forces and the crown prince are partying while the muslims get dragged out of the city and deported to a certain death, come on, what kind of armed froces do we have, even if you lose, you shouldn't dance when there is a freaking genocide a few metres away..

Edit @ Frag: I only see our dutch armed scumbags shooting on a few natives...
EDIT EDIT: And I thought we send them on a rebuild mission, obviously, your vid disaproves :P

[Fragony]

Should I upload the vid were the armed forces and the crown prince are partying while the muslims get dragged out of the city and deported to a certain death, come on, what kind of armed froces do we have, even if you lose, you shouldn't dance when there is a freaking genocide a few metres away..

Edit @ Frag: I only see our dutch armed scumbags shooting on a few natives...
EDIT EDIT: And I thought we send them on a rebuild mission, obviously, your vid disaproves :P

You can clearly see incoming fire from the trees. Nothing wrong with the Dutch army, they are well trained and well equipped, sure our allies would love to get their hands on a few of these neat PZH-2000 and Fennecks, much more advanced then what they brought.

for people who like hardware https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-nnUiMgE24 a masterpiece of german enginering.

[Skullheadhq]

Frag, you're a soldier yourself? :clown:

[Fragony]

Frag, you're a soldier yourself? :clown:

As I said you have to be really good, I'm not.

[Skullheadhq]

As I said you have to be really good, I'm not.

I heard that the dutch army payed the cooks better then the soldiers :laugh4:

[Fragony]

I heard that the dutch army payed the cooks better then the soldiers :laugh4:

Even if that is true the a common soldier still makes more money than the local doctor and he has to study 12 years for it. It's very well payed.

[The Wizard]

Pah, seems like the Dutchies are getting as soft as the lily-livered people on this island. If those rogues in Iceland can't cough up, then I think it's time to take a leaf out of what we did in Egyptback in '82: sail the fleet to Rekjavik, bombard the place and take over that God-forsaken country as an Anglo-Dutch condominium.

Someone tell the fellow the 19th century has been over for a while now

[Romanus]

Someone tell the fellow the 19th century has been over for a while now

Egypt did pay up though.

[The Wizard]

Don't you mean Argentina?

[Wishazu]

Iceland a terrorist state?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
I haven't yet seen a terrorist training camp up there in the far north, maybe santa is training suicide elves there...

Achmed, kill that infidel polar bear!:laugh4:

Gordon Brown is a joke, and so is Britain (and the Netherlands for that matter).

Britain a joke? so does that include the substantial British membership on these boards? Is that your expert opinion?

[Skullheadhq]

Britain a joke? so does that include the substantial British membership on these boards? Is that your expert opinion?

I meant Britain declaring Iceland a terrorist state, a country who does that is in my eyes a silly joke...

[Andres]

:inquisitive:

In all seriousness, a lot of economists seem to think that Iceland wouldn't be able to pay back all that money in the alotted time, and trying to do so would only ruin Iceland's economy further.
My first reaction was that they've got only themselves to blame for all this and that they should cough up the money already, but insisting that they pay everything back in 15 years time is just a spiteful act as it's probably impossible for them to comply.

Not paying back could be disastrous in the long term for Iceland.

Who would ever want to invest in that country again? Will they ever be allowed into the EU if they don't pay back?

If they simply cannot pay everything back in 15 years, then let them re-negotiate. The creditors want their money back; the debtor can't pay back in 15 years. Let them pay back in 30 years. Or try to get the EU involved in finding a solution.

Simply not paying back is not an option as it will probably turn Iceland into some sort of outcast.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The bailout for Iceland is apparantly €13.000 then?

Meh. That's what we all pay. The bailout for French citizens is about that. For US citizens its $10,000. I assume its pretty much the same everywhere.

Yes, it sucks.

But I see this an a transfer of money from the poor to the rich, not as one from one country to the other.
As we speak, record bonuses are being paid over 2009 again. I say we all get the money from them. No private profits and socialised risks.
Let Iceland compensate the Dutch and British rich, then retro-tax this money to compensate the Dutch and British common taxpayer for the bailout.

Also, when banks are too big too fall, then they apparantly are too big too fall and must hence be nationalised or placed under strict supervision.

[Skullheadhq]

QFT

Total amount claimed by The Netherlands and UK amounts to 3.8 euro billion. Since Iceland only has 320,000 inhabitants, this results in a staggering 12,000 euro per inhabitant. Apart from the fact that the legal basis is very weak, the claims have no moral or ethical foundation and will lead to the robbing and prolonged suffering of ordinary citizens such as elderly, hard working laborers, children and disabled, all of them not being involved in the failings of Landsbanki/Icesave whatsoever.


Instead the governments of The Netherlands and UK should focus on finding and bringing to justice all involved greedy bankers, officials and regulators.

The Icelandic parliament has narrowly approved the payment plan with Dutch and UK governments with only 33 of 63 members. The people of Iceland are however increasingly against the bill. Polls suggest that 70% is against it. Also more than 56,000 people have already signed a petition, handed over to the president Olafur Ragnar Grimsson.

Mister Grimsson has now asked for some time to consider the bill, which will only be effected once he signed it. Should he not sign the bill, the bill will be left to a referendum.

THE UNDERSIGNED RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THE UK AND DUTCH OFFICIALS:

1) to respect fundamental ethical and moral values and to drop their excessive claims of in total 3.8 billion euro on the government and therefore ordinary citizens of Iceland
2) to find and bring to justice all involved bankers, companies and government officials

[Brenus]

“I heard that the dutch army payed the cooks better then the soldiers” A lot of job pay more than soldier…:beam:
If you want to make money don’t go in the Armed Forces, that will be my advice…

Louis, yes, it is a transfer to poor to rich, but hey, what new under this sun?

I think it is not enough. I think that until the stupid middle class will blame the “social benefitors” as the problem and not the bloodsucker leeches/bankers as the problem to put down, they should carry on…
Then perhaps they will do something about it and vote properly…

The same who last year apologised for the mistake (but didn’t reimbursed the bonuses they took under false pretences –we are making benefit so we deserve the bonuses) are now back with even bigger bonuses and no more remorse, if they even had.
Our salaries are still frost and even decreased (10 % in my wife company) and the bankers will have their bonuses.
Milions are unemployed but, hey, that the laws of the market.
You know, if we don’t pay them they will go somewhere else… So, good-bye and good luck.
Their failure is so spectacular that you should think they would commit a honourable suicide? Que non… Au contraire. Same arrogance, same greed, same aarrggg…

Typical: Boris Johnson, Mayor of London, just increased the London travel fair by 20%.
My wife monthly bus-pass, to allow her to go to work, went from £ 50,00 to £ 63.90.

The same mayor is now questioning the possible taxes on these mega-bonuses.
To tell the truth, this Mayor said the £ 15,000 (one yearly salary for a medium skill worker) he got from a newspaper was “chicken feed”.

[Kralizec]

Apart from the fact that the legal basis is very weak, the claims have no moral or ethical foundation

The legal basis is not weak at all. Iceland is legally obliged to garantue customers to its banks repayment of about 20.000 euro. That's part of the package of rules that Iceland had to accept in order to do business in the EU.
Plus, since the central bank of Iceland has given Icesave a banking permit the Dutch and British institutions were likewise obliged to allow Icesave to recruit customers in their countries.
Wether or not the common Icelander was responsible for this is, isn't the point. It's their government wich screwed up and it's their government wich is now expected to pay back.


Let Iceland compensate the Dutch and British rich, then retro-tax this money to compensate the Dutch and British common taxpayer for the bailout.

I seriously doubt that the majority of Icesave's victims were what we'd call "rich". Iceland is supposed to pay back a maximum amount of 20.000 euro for each savings account. Having 20.000 euro in savings means you're not poor by most definitions, but I wouldn't call it rich, either :shrug: If these people had been greedy investors as you seem to imply, they probably would have invested in bonds or stocks instead.


Not paying back could be disastrous in the long term for Iceland.

Who would ever want to invest in that country again? Will they ever be allowed into the EU if they don't pay back?

If they simply cannot pay everything back in 15 years, then let them re-negotiate. The creditors want their money back; the debtor can't pay back in 15 years. Let them pay back in 30 years. Or try to get the EU involved in finding a solution.

Simply not paying back is not an option as it will probably turn Iceland into some sort of outcast.

I wasn't saying that Iceland ought to unilaterly declare that they won't pay. That would indeed hurt their image. I was suggesting that we ought to accept that maybe Iceland wouldn't be capable of paying back everything, and that trying to force them isn't going to do anybody any good.

That said, I don't agree with my own argument anymore. Before the crisis, Iceland had a public (government) debt of less than a quarter of their GDP is wich very low. The Icesave obligations would add about 60% to that. There are countries wich have a much larger debt than that and still manage to come by.

[Furunculus]

I meant Britain declaring Iceland a terrorist state, a country who does that is in my eyes a silly joke...

i agree, it is a gross misuse of anti-terrorist legislation, and the fact that is ossible to use it so demonstrates that it is badly written law that it can be abused so.

anti-terror legislation is a sad necessity that must be used to take down something that exists outsides the bounds of law, but making law that can be misused so is a tragedy for britain.