Easily Capturing a city [Archive]

jirisys

01-21-2010, 20:49

Hey, my first post, i battle Pyrroh's Epiretos army on Taras to take the city with 2 of each camillan reform cohorts (triarii, hastatii, principes, leves, accensi, rorarii, equites romani, equites campanici, hastati samnitici) one equites consulares, and one misthophoroi phalangitai (mercenary hellenic medium phalanx) and devised a strategy to use them i took all but the triarii and the hastati samnitici (they were busy fighting to get to the plaza's flanks) and pretty much mixed them all up and ended up with this, the most deadly formation for fighting on a city street (nowhere to flank the phalanx by the rear because 3 cohorts were protecting them and if attacking by the front, they chose to die either by: long sharp spear of the phalanx, not so long but still deadly sharp spear by the principes or deadly swords of the hastati, and all that was in front of the phalanx it was like :wall::whip:)

Phase 1: (rorarii and phalanx with the rest separated)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4293070185_40a574f7b0_o.png

Phase 2: (rorarii and phalanx with the rest right behind)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4293072285_f9e0b898fa_o.png

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4293816942_f73ffe0faf_o.png

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4293076381_ffcc368785_o.png

Phase 3: (hastati, principes and phalanx with the rest right behind)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/4293078677_a5dc9385a4_o.png

The results of my formation: (phalanx cohort killed 163 of 600, more than any other cohort)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4293079885_54fe302696_o.png

Fluvius Camillus

01-21-2010, 22:20

Ave New one,

Welcome to the forums!

I did read it and looked at it, you are showing us how to effectively take a city?

Could you please try to use more interpunction (commas, dots). Your strory looks like one giant sentence, which can be hard to read.

Have a good time at the forum!

~Fluvius

Macilrille

01-21-2010, 23:39

Welcome to the forum a wonderful world of nerdness and all the usual traits on the net, lots of nerdness though :-D :clown:

seienchin

01-22-2010, 00:23

I guess the trick is kind of old:book:
Works in Vanilla also. :2thumbsup:
Try using it at bridge battles also.

jirisys

01-22-2010, 18:33

I guess the trick is kind of old:book:
Works in Vanilla also. :2thumbsup:
Try using it at bridge battles also.

Yeah bridge battles too, but the problem is if they wont get near you, they just stay at the end waiting for you, and since you have it on unlimited time you can't do anything about it, and also a problem is that the formation gets messed up once you move it, so you have to move one cohort at a time. Btw i noticed some screens on the site that showed a cohort crossing a river, can you do that? if you can then the phalanx on the bridge would be useless

Fluvius Camillus

01-22-2010, 19:04

Yeah bridge battles too, but the problem is if they wont get near you, they just stay at the end waiting for you, and since you have it on unlimited time you can't do anything about it, and also a problem is that the formation gets messed up once you move it, so you have to move one cohort at a time. Btw i notices some screens on the site that showed a cohort crossing a river, can you do that? if you can then the phalanx on the bridge would be useless

It can be done in the more shallow places of the river, where it is possible for any infantry to cross the river. Actual swimming is not possible in EB RTW.exe~D

~Fluvius

Subotan

01-22-2010, 19:10

Welcome to the forum a wonderful world of nerdness and all the usual traits on the net, lots of nerdness though :-D :clown:

Not enough so that anyone who posts here is automatically a nerd though.

jirisys

01-22-2010, 19:12

Not enough so that anyone who posts here is automatically a nerd though.

yes the only saved ones are on the troubleshooting section, and most non-nerd people don't look for the game to be more historically acurate, so maybe we all are nerds :beam:

Subotan

01-22-2010, 19:45

jirisys

01-22-2010, 19:57

I'm pretty sure the combination of soon-to-be PPEist, history buff, Mafia games and this forum make me a nerd though.

EDIT: That said, I lack the other features of nerdom (Smelliness, social incompetence, lack of style, no sense of humour)

Well, i don't know about you but i never smelled a nerd, how do you know they smell bad? lol, well then, we are VIDEO GAME nerds :beam::clown::laugh4::wall:

Vasiliyi

01-22-2010, 20:15

You are confusing A nerd with a geek. Geeks smell and are socially incompetent. Us nerds aren't that bad.

Ibrahim

01-23-2010, 02:40

You are confusing A nerd with a geek. Geeks smell and are socially incompetent. Us nerds aren't that bad.

well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Zc9NyYH-k&feature=related)*....:clown:

hey, don't look at me, I'm just here to get tips on playing RTW, or help people mod. in RL I have more un-nerdy things to do.

anyways: this sharding of the phalanx is very interesting. I'll have to give it a try. have you tried it in other sieges and battles in your game? I prefer multiple tests, not one.:2thumbsup:

*and yes, the guy counts as a nerd. allbeit a accodion nerd.

jirisys

01-23-2010, 02:51

anyways: this sharding of the phalanx is very interesting. I'll have to give it a try. have you tried it in other sieges and battles in your game? I prefer multiple tests, not one.:2thumbsup:

Yeah i have, it's very effective, of course if you move them you'll have to move them one by one and they may attack you very easily, one way to use it though, is make the formation and unite them as a group, then you'll just need to move the group by the whole and you won't be so prone to attacks:laugh4::wall:

Ouakomagos

01-23-2010, 23:21

jirisys

01-25-2010, 15:43

But the problem to me is it's not realistic: A phalanx only works if the soldiers are standing in tight formation creating an impenetrable forest of spears at their front, there is no way Rorarii or Hastati could stand in their midst and engage the enemy without destroying the strength of the phalanx.

I don't mind learning good strategies but they have to have some basis in reality! :thinking:

well first, the hastati and principes form one line in front of them, and the rest behind, so they can use protection (lol) and, even if the phalanx doesn't work that much (in a tight space i don't think they need to be tighter) it is pretty deadly, btw, it's a game, you can do whatever you want with your troops, don't get too tight on the historical accuracy of formations and movement!

Subotan

01-26-2010, 01:18

well first, the hastati and principes form one line in front of them, and the rest behind, so they can use protection (lol) and, even if the phalanx doesn't work that much (in a tight space i don't think they need to be tighter) it is pretty deadly, btw, it's a game, you can do whatever you want with your troops, don't get too tight on the historical accuracy of formations and movement!

So why do you play EB then?

jirisys

01-26-2010, 01:30

So why do you play EB then?

I don't think EB gets a*al with realistic formations that much as they do on realistic provinces, units, maps and factions (THAT is why i play it!:tongue:) but yes, a new, better, more specific (and more realistic) formations system would be great :beam:, i hate the vanilla one! :wall:

P.S.: It's a RTS game, that means i can do whatever i want with my soldiers, as long as it's deadly. but gameplay on battles is really bad on vanilla and EB, still with the whole problems that units face (when entering a city, they must go touch the road (like if it were a base and they were playing baseball) in order to get to the far end of the city, or when turning, they MUST touch the crossroad so that they can turn!)

Subotan

01-26-2010, 01:37

jirisys

01-26-2010, 02:40

Can't be modded. It's hardcoded, unfortuately.

However, I do think that this "tactic" verges on being an exploit, as it's neither realistic, and it exploits the AI's stupidity. E.g., were I the AI, I'd send some cavalry round your flanks to smack you in the bum, and then rush you with some infantry when you turn to face the cavalry. The Ai can't do that.

well, first, for that to be useful, there had to be any flanks, as you can notice, it's in a narrow road an the only way around those deadly spears is the back, where the meatgrinders await you (hastati and h. samnitici) plus some rorarii to prevent any dumb cavalry to go kill itself, then i just moved them forward, i used cavalry to push them through the spears (the enemy was in the plaza) so you were left with the only non-deadlyforyourtroops solution: escape (with all those details try to form a better strategy, and we may try brainstorming to see if it works:beam:)

P.S.: that strategy could work if you had dozens of hundreds of soldiers ready to die, which you havent (at the begining they had around 300 soldiers (4 spear, 3 peltasts, 2 cavalry)

vartan

01-26-2010, 09:49

Can't be modded. It's hardcoded, unfortuately.

However, I do think that this "tactic" verges on being an exploit, as it's neither realistic, and it exploits the AI's stupidity. E.g., were I the AI, I'd send some cavalry round your flanks to smack you in the bum, and then rush you with some infantry when you turn to face the cavalry. The Ai can't do that.

I remember playing EB Online back in summer with one of the guys, probably Mark (pardon me whoever it was, I forget :shame:). My friend's little brother and I were besieging the opponent, who was playing as Makedonia, defending a small town or city, I forget again. His Argyraspides were able to hold all streets leading to the Plaza. This way, there was no chance for us attackers. Props to my opponent (Mark if it wasn't you, then consider this a shout-out to you :2thumbsup: where have you been my friend??). He did lose many men as my partner and I had hardy Hellene Hoplitai slowly wearing down those pikemen of Makedonia. But they are truly beasts, those Elite Phalanx of Hellenes.

jirisys

01-26-2010, 15:16

I remember playing EB Online back in summer with one of the guys, probably Mark (pardon me whoever it was, I forget :shame:). My friend's little brother and I were besieging the opponent, who was playing as Makedonia, defending a small town or city, I forget again. His Argyraspides were able to hold all streets leading to the Plaza. This way, there was no chance for us attackers. Props to my opponent (Mark if it wasn't you, then consider this a shout-out to you :2thumbsup: where have you been my friend??). He did lose many men as my partner and I had hardy Hellene Hoplitai slowly wearing down those pikemen of Makedonia. But they are truly beasts, those Elite Phalanx of Hellenes.

Yeah, that's what i did on that siege, there only the exit way out, if the turned before the gated they would be slaughtered my 5 units of cavalry, but that's what i don't like about the cities on RTW, they are always the same design (i just sieged one qarthadistim city, it's like a labyrinth but still has the pasta-damned plaza), but i can't play online :sweatdrop::cry:

ARCHIPPOS

01-26-2010, 16:19

jirisys

01-26-2010, 17:33

You must ALWAYS flank the enemy if you can ... judging by the pics you posted you could have saved up a unit (of principes???-the guys standing at the very back of the formation) and flank the AI while the enemy was engaging your phallanx. It is very important to use crossroads (and open spaces) to your advantage by luring the enemy forth to your phallanx and then using some high-lethality sword unit to flank him from the left or right.

the guys at the back were hastati and h. samnitici, at the middle they were rorarii, but the problem was they didn't came out of the plaza, so i had to use some cavalry to lure them to the phalanx, but id did flank them while they were attacking, i flanked them with all my cavalry, they died 1 per second, it was lethality at it's best, also:

It is very important to use crossroads (and open spaces) to your advantage by luring the enemy forth to your phallanx

it is also important to use tight spaces, such as the tiny roads so that if they tried to attack the phalanx they couldn't flank or rear them, since they were heavily protected by all sides

Fluvius Camillus

01-26-2010, 18:10

[..]
it is also important to use tight spaces, such as the tiny roads so that if they tried to attack the phalanx they couldn't flank or rear them, since they were heavily protected by all sides

ARCHIPPOS meant something like this:

https://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/Fluvius_Camillus/tacticus.png

AP = Armor piercing HL = High Lethality (just for example for a perfect city flank.

Here you use the crossroads (flanking with good inf) and the tight spot (blocking the street with phalanx).

~Fluvius

jirisys

01-26-2010, 21:23

:wall:
ARCHIPPOS meant something like this:

https://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/Fluvius_Camillus/tacticus.png

AP = Armor piercing HL = High Lethality (just for example for a perfect city flank.

Here you use the crossroads (flanking with good inf) and the tight spot (blocking the street with phalanx).

~Fluvius

yes it would, but the problem is this: how do you lure all the enemy's army to the crossroad (if you leave someone behind they might eventually flank you while you're flanking their fellow partners) but if you can manage that, you should put a cavalry on the remaining street just to charge and retreat over and over again. It would be the easiest siege of all times, almost nobody of your side would die, all the enemy would be in great panic and wouldn't fight at all :wall::whip:

Grade_A_Beef

01-26-2010, 21:53

I would switch the AP and HL sides with one another if something as unlikely as those crossroads ever occured. It's simply because in general AP units aren't as durable for their cost. With your diagram you're sending them to the defense skill side of the enemy, which provides the enemy with much more defense than the shield side that HL units will be facing.

Negate what I said if you're using something like Drapanai, who are supposed to die in droves, or the Thracians, which are not but still have godly combination of HL and AP.

As I said before, the crossroads situation is highly unlikely.....In general I would simply send my elites (or best available units) up one lane, rout my enemies, then move the elites into the square and attract all the attention while the rest of my units go in afterwards (preferebly from a different street) and flank the giant clump of enemies.

ARCHIPPOS

01-26-2010, 22:28

As I said before, the crossroads situation is highly unlikely.....In general I would simply send my elites (or best available units) up one lane, rout my enemies, then move the elites into the square and attract all the attention while the rest of my units go in afterwards (preferebly from a different street) and flank the giant clump of enemies.

that is what i do most times but mainly out of boredom and only if i have an unquestionable qualitative edge over the enemy.However when AI Phallanx,Hoplites, Thyreoforoi and the the such come into play flanking saves lives and then you have to become more resourceful possibly using crossroads etc... and frankly it's not that difficult to set the AI into a trap. Just place your Phallanx before the crossroad and the AI will probably charge with everything he's got (except the town centre last-stand-troops that is)...

jirisys

01-26-2010, 23:22

that is what i do most times but mainly out of boredom and only if i have an unquestionable qualitative edge over the enemy.However when AI Phallanx,Hoplites, Thyreoforoi and the the such come into play flanking saves lives and then you have to become more resourceful possibly using crossroads etc... and frankly it's not that difficult to set the AI into a trap. Just place your Phallanx before the crossroad and the AI will probably charge with everything he's got (except the town centre last-stand-troops that is)...

good idea, i'll try it now! :beam::smile:

Fluvius Camillus

01-27-2010, 10:06

As long as the AI has more than 2 units near the town center, they will attack you (how close you have to get depends on how many units.

~Fluvius

jirisys

01-27-2010, 15:49

As long as the AI has more than 2 units near the town center, they will attack you (how close you have to get depends on how many units.

~Fluvius

i'll keep em busy,i'll send 1 or 2 cohorts to the plaza via an alternate route

jirisys

01-30-2010, 23:16

I did it again with a gallic minor city and they are also effective, if you have enough to spread them around, i used two hastati cohorts in front of the phalanx and no phalanx died but sure as hell killed (107 kills) :beam: (sorry about the bar but i didn't want to remove it)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2767/4316509487_99f5505c74_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4317244408_609656df68_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4316510895_1e6633d24a_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4316511599_b348c50ffb_o.jpg

Here's the results of my formation (misthophoroi phalangitai)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4316511993_4732bf7f7d_o.jpg