Sparing Cities

[Terentia100]

Hello, I'm new here, and have a question

I know if you don't exterminate or enslave you will face a rebellion, but I like sparing peoples lives so is there any benefit to leaving the citizens of the conquered alive and free?

[Lord Reid of Britannica]

If it's a province where there would be no culture penalty, like a barbarian country taking another barbarian's town then rebellion would be less likely to occur after occupying and the benefit is not having to rebuild the cities' population so the city will grow faster.

[Quintus.JC]

Just echoing what Lord Reid said. Bigger populations means you'll be able to reach the next city level quicker and faster. Moreover, populations means taxes, and taxes means money. So in the long term, exterminating population may not be the best option when considering the financial sphere. However, because of the likelyhoods of rebellions and such, its more common for people to enslave and exterminate rather than occupy, especially when encountering larger settlements with a different culture.

[gollum]

I'll second the previous two posters.

It all depends whether the distance from capital penalties are substantial enough. If it is not, spare even if you face one or two turns of rebellion, because you will most likely be able to jump much faster to the next level, that will turn the city to your own culture and reduce the culture penalties to public order, bringning it safely under your fold .

However for cities that are far enough that the distance to capital penalty is substantial enough that (combined with the culture penalty) it makes things untenable in the short term, you better exterminate and start replacing buildings (by overbuilding) with the aid of a garrison and a high influence governor to boost public order while the cities population is increasing. You can also add the sewers line of buildings that adds population increase rate and public order meaning that you reach faster and safer the next level.

All cities get additional squalor penalties as they appraoch the next level of required pop., you can think of this as a density ratio ie = population/city capacity. City capacity is represented by the city level. As the pop. approaches the next level the ratio maximises ie the population is too large for the city capacity and this produces squalor. Squalor due to this eases once you have upgraded townplan/townhall because now the city capacity can accomodate the population. It is for these critical turns that you need to plan, when you decide if you wish to exterminate or simply occupy.

If you fail to do so, the city will rebel while the required upgrade pop. is appraoched and by the rebellion a vicious circle will occur ie the rebellions will reduce the population (and with it squalor) but then again the increase will begin again only to reach the same conditions. In those instances you need additional happiness buildings, and/or a higher influence Governor and/or more garrison (peasants preferred if the city is safe from raids, proper armies if on a dangerous border).

Peasants can also be used as settlers, ie make a stack say of them from one of your cities that has a natural high pop. growth (say like Patavium as the Julii), and take them to the province of the city you wish to upgrade pop. wise. Then disband them. Many people play with this, although some, like me, prefer not to use it, as the AI can't disband, and so it is an exploit of sorts for the player.

Population pays taxes, that's one of your three sources of income. ie the more people you have the more denarii you make. In general, for the early-mid game, taxes and farming are your greatest sources of income. Trade increases slowly, and eventually as you capture the good trading towns it will increase and surpass the other two individually, but not combined.
Strictly in fincanical terms, exterminating population is a bad thing in the long term despite of the sacking income. However this needs to be balanced with the arguments above ie how feasible is upgrading city level with the current public order penalties (culture, distance from capital and squalor prior to city level upgrade).

It follows that the biggest problem is Huge Cities, because they simply cannot be upgraded and so turned in their town plan into your faction's culture - the population will always remain foreign. Egypt usually is such because its population grows very fast and its relatively far off from all, and so by the time its reached some of its cities are huge.

In these cases you can only slowly replace all buildings with those of your own culture, while you need a high influence governor and a large garisson to maintain order, perhaps even alter the location of your capital to find a balance. In certain instances however even these measures may not work (on the way to balance) and so the good old "let rebel, and then exterminate" applies.

It is for this rason, that its best to take on the civilised enemies first, ie against those factions that have cities of high growth, and that have available all city levels - unlike the barbarians. Berbarian settlements can never reach Huge City level, and so you can always leave them for later. Roman cities in Italy, Carthaginian cities in Africa/Iberia, the Greek cities in Greece proper and Asia Minor, and the Hellenistic Cities in the eaastern Med, are priorities. Take them first, so you can ensure that they will be yours culturally over time.

:bow:

[ReluctantSamurai]

A most excellent post, gollum! That being said, there are several cities that I exterminate nearly every time no matter what: Patavium, Jerusalem, Carthage, and any other city that has a population boom due to grain bonus. Dunno why the designers felt that abundant grain harvests should translate directly into population growth, but that's just me, I guess. The extra money from taxes is usually not worth the headaches of trying to manage an out of control growth with the attendant squalor. The regrowth rate is astronomical in these cities and you will reach the next level of size in 10 years or less anyways.

I've tried it both ways and I find I have less problems by exterminating these cities.....

[gollum]

The cities you mention grow way too fast not to be exterminated, unless one is too close to them: Seleukids for Jerusalem, Julii for Patavium and Scipii for Carthage. In those cases you can simply occupy or if organised to do so take slaves.

Patavium does not have grain iirc (and methinks neither Jerusalem), but grows way too fast as it has very high agr. income. Growth rates are directly related to the base agr. income of a province.

:bow: