Protectorates

[Drewski]

Quite simply, is it possible for the player to make an ai faction a protectorate? (without Forced Diplomacy which I don't use)

I've played countless hrs and most factions, but never ever achieved it, whatever the circumstances..

Am I missing something? (if so then please tell );)

[Tanit]

Yes you can. I have gotten protectorates twice. The simplest one was when, as Carthage, I conquered all Egypt from the Ptolemaioi, leaving only a few provinces in the levant and Syria and made them a protectorate. The more complicated and stunningly brilliant one was when playing as Rome. I invaded north Africa, captured Carthage, made a deal to give back Carthage if they became my protectorate, then bribed back Carthage with the money that deal got me. Never really had to worry about Carthage again.

[seienchin]

Actually I never saw that happen...
If you take provinces away from the Ki it refuses to make any treaties with you.
I once read in the forum that someone got a proteoctorate by paying 2million to to the koinon hellenon whcih only had two cities left...

[Mulceber]

Making a protectorate is actually very simple, with or without forced diplomacy. All it requires is a massive amount of cash: you basically go to the faction you want to have as your protectorate and offer them something like 1,000,000 mnai if they will become your protectorate. In a lot of cases, especially if they've already lost a lot of territory to you, they'll agree. Then, when you click end turn, it goes to their turn, and they have to pay their tribute to you - which includes the entire 1,000,000 mnai bribe you gave them in order to become a protectorate. -M

[Subotan]

It helps if you don't border them.

[Drewski]

Hmm, Ok that makes sense (but absolutely no sense really)....so it's lots of cash then....

Do they stay your prot. for long though? Or do they immediately go to headless chicken ai, i.e. Player border me...must kiiiillllll...;)

[ziegenpeter]

Yes you can. I have gotten protectorates twice. The simplest one was when, as Carthage, I conquered all Egypt from the Ptolemaioi, leaving only a few provinces in the levant and Syria and made them a protectorate. The more complicated and stunningly brilliant one was when playing as Rome. I invaded north Africa, captured Carthage, made a deal to give back Carthage if they became my protectorate, then bribed back Carthage with the money that deal got me. Never really had to worry about Carthage again.

Aren't the y becoming enemies of your when you bribe one of their ciries?

[anubis88]

In my Romani campaign i made the Lusotana my protectorates instead of destroying them with FD. They have been that way for 25 years now i think. Just be careful that noone of their allies can attack you. The AI will ALWAYS choose the attacker as the one they will keep their alliances with. In my case i made a ceasfire with the Sweboz when the protectorate was made, but they attacked me the next turn and Lusotanna stopped beign my protectores. So i had to do everything all over again

[ziegenpeter]

Actually in my campaigns it often happens that the AI sticks to me as allies.
Playing VH

[Tristuskhan]

Much money and a few provinces often do the trick. I never had a protectorate without having to handle back quite a few provinces.

[Mulceber]

Hmm, Ok that makes sense (but absolutely no sense really)....so it's lots of cash then....

Do they stay your prot. for long though? Or do they immediately go to headless chicken ai, i.e. Player border me...must kiiiillllll...;)

Generally, yes. Usually, the AI can't break the alliance with you - the only way it will happen is that sometimes, if your protectorate has an ally, and you go to war with that ally, your protectorate will have to choose whether to side with you or their ally. In most cases they'll choose the ally. At least, that's my experience. -M

[Cullhwch]

Generally, yes. Usually, the AI can't break the alliance with you - the only way it will happen is that sometimes, if your protectorate has an ally, and you go to war with that ally, your protectorate will have to choose whether to side with you or their ally. In most cases they'll choose the ally. At least, that's my experience. -M

The AI always sides with the attacker. Attack their allies sans provocation and you'll enjoy an eternal peace with your protectorate.

Even better, you can force their former allies into protectorate status immediately after attacking them! After a few rounds of this global dominion can be yours!

[GenosseGeneral]

Making a protectorate is actually very simple, with or without forced diplomacy. All it requires is a massive amount of cash: you basically go to the faction you want to have as your protectorate and offer them something like 1,000,000 mnai if they will become your protectorate. In a lot of cases, especially if they've already lost a lot of territory to you, they'll agree. Then, when you click end turn, it goes to their turn, and they have to pay their tribute to you - which includes the entire 1,000,000 mnai bribe you gave them in order to become a protectorate. -M
so u get tribute from protectorates? actually never thought much about this, since i hardly achieve some.

[Mulceber]

so u get tribute from protectorates? actually never thought much about this, since i hardly achieve some.

Yep - the faction has to give you all but a certain amount each turn - iirc, that amount depends on how many provinces they have. But that massive bribe will end up going right back into your coffers.

@ Cullhwch - thanks for the tip - I'm sure I'll use it at some point. -M

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Protectorates are buggy. Once you make one, your annual income will be messed up. Avoid them. :rtwno:
.

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

In my Romani campaign i made the Lusotana my protectorates instead of destroying them with FD. They have been that way for 25 years now i think. Just be careful that noone of their allies can attack you. The AI will ALWAYS choose the attacker as the one they will keep their alliances with. In my case i made a ceasfire with the Sweboz when the protectorate was made, but they attacked me the next turn and Lusotanna stopped beign my protectores. So i had to do everything all over again
I've had protectorates stick by me over allied attackers more than once.

@Mulceber
Don't forget that they also fork over all of the cash that the EB script gives them every turn, making protectorates with even the most pitiful failed states pretty profitable. So I try not to destroy factions, really - their remaining cities are much less profitable than their loyalty.

[vartan]

.
Protectorates are buggy. Once you make one, your annual income will be messed up. Avoid them. :rtwno:
.
How does it cause income to mess up? What exactly happens? I'm curious as I've never had protectorates.

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

How does it cause income to mess up? What exactly happens? I'm curious as I've never had protectorates.
It affects your income heavily, but always to the positive; I don't know what Mouzafphaerre means.

The protectorate pays you tribute in the form of all their income every turn except for a certain amount, including all of the scripted money each faction gets. For example, in my Sweboz campaign, I conquered everything from Gaul to Eastern Europe except for Italy, and I was making ~12,000 mnai per turn. Then Rome became my protectorate, and now I'm making upwards of 30,000 mnai per turn, even though Rome is contained just within the four central Italian provinces, three of which I burnt to the ground.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
The protectorate bug is one of the famous ones. I believe there could be found sufficient details in the related subfora. If it doesn't hit you, then it must be also one of those intermittent ones; just count yourselves lucky. :shrug:

It pretty much ruined my income (decreasing it considerably; to sum up, the balance shown in your turn summary is not reflected in reality) in my Lusotana campaign so I always avoid it.
.

[fraoula]

From my experience, protectorates pay the protectors their excess treasury every turn. That means, if you pay them 1,000,000 mnai you will get back roughly the same money.
However if they have a negative balance you will not receive anything. Basically I prefer to use protectorates as buffer states.

[Karo]

.
The protectorate bug is one of the famous ones. I believe there could be found sufficient details in the related subfora. If it doesn't hit you, then it must be also one of those intermittent ones; just count yourselves lucky. :shrug:

It pretty much ruined my income (decreasing it considerably; to sum up, the balance shown in your turn summary is not reflected in reality) in my Lusotana campaign so I always avoid it.
.

The only thing that it does to your income is increasing it. I've never heard that it does something else. :s

[Unintended BM]

Protectorates are pretty easy to get on medium. Just offer like 60k or something and most factions will agree.

And yeah, it does screw up your income. I had Getai and Pontus as protectorates on my Mak game, and the finance screen said I was making ~20k a turn but I was really getting way more. I don't know how it's game crippling or anything, but it does screw it up.

[delablake]

Protectorates are crap! Just crush your enemies like a honest warrior should, not like a fat, corrupt merchant!

[Drewski]

Protectorates are crap! Just crush your enemies like a honest warrior should, not like a fat, corrupt merchant!

:)

But I'm Rplaying Carthage as a bunch of lardy traders ;

Actually, I have taken all of Africa (minus a few desert settlements), right up to the Sinai in the East...making 30k a turn, and losing money every turn overall (takes a huge wedge to keep building up 35+ settlements every turn)

I offered the Tollies 320k, my entire treasury at that point to become my Protectorate, but no dice....ah well

[SwissBarbar]

Are you guys sure, that you get the money back from your protectorates and that they pay some amount of money to you? Where in the finance-list do I see the income from protectorates?

[fraoula]

Are you guys sure, that you get the money back from your protectorates and that they pay some amount of money to you? Where in the finance-list do I see the income from protectorates?

It should be " diplomacy and tributes" in the finance screen. Try giving your protectorate loads of mnai and check the list next turn.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Are you guys sure, that you get the money back from your protectorates and that they pay some amount of money to you? Where in the finance-list do I see the income from protectorates?

I think it's the Diplomacy/Tributes thingy.

edit: fraola you beat me to it.

[GenosseGeneral]

well i think this is waht actually gets messed up. this is what i had to experience in my ptolie campaign when making the eastern rest-seleucia my buffer protectorate. and i wondered a lot y my income decreased so steeply when they declared war, but the prob was tghat my financial report was as clear and close to reality as a greek one from today ;) (hopefully i do not offend anyone; will be deleted if this is the case)

[Unintended BM]

As far as I can tell, when you get a protectorate, the increased income you receive doesn't show up on your financial screen. That's what I was saying before.

[SwissBarbar]

Ah hey, you're right ;-) I tested it.
It really does show in the Finance-Screen

[GenosseGeneral]

@swissBarbar: which .exe do u use?

[SwissBarbar]

I have EB installed to RTW, not BI or Alex, if you mean that. It's Version 1.2

[GenosseGeneral]

thank you. just thought this bug would may be fixed with a newer version of the engine.

[Ludens]

R:TW was patched at the same time as BI, so any bugs that aren't fixed in one are most likely still present in the other. Whether alex fixes any remaining BI bugs, I don't know.

[Atraphoenix]

Same with ALEX....

Same bug but I do not care since I hate destroying factions I give them one province and let their noble dynasty womanize...
I have to make Hayasdan my protectorate to save me from endless stacks of AS phalanxes....

A none game crushing bug or roleplaying I prefer the latter....

[Lazy O]

Protectorates do not screw your income. It is exaclty the way it is. The finance tab shows you how much you got THE CURRENT TURN. And the projected profit will mean how much you will have next turn if nothing messes with it. In this case. AI gives you 10000 in turn 1 which is showed on your finance, You press end turn, AI goes into the red, AI does not give you tribute the next turn so you dont get the money. Its basically a misinterpretation, Like when you recruit 1 unit of cavalry which costs 1000, and has a upkeep of 400, the 400 upkeep deduction will not be counted in your projected income for the next turn.