View Full Version : favorite medieval film?
Ok, although this question may be a bit of general interest, i reckon that movies, with their bold and immediate transport that effect in one to the time in question can act as major inspirations for anyone that plays the game.
For me, the best medieval films are, no not Monty Python and the Holy Grail nor Joan D'Arc and Kingdom of Heaven, but a black comedy film (that gossip has it, influenced very much the making of the Grail Python film), which is (unfortunately in terms of language) Italian (although it has been released in English under the title "For love and gold").
I am reffering to none other than the legendary Brancaleone da Norcia, a poor but valorous and kindhearted if not neive and pompous knight and the two films in which he stars in the search of fame, glory, titles and pretty princesses: "L'armata Brancaleone" (Brancleone's army) and "Brancaleone alle Crociate" (Brancaleone in the Crusades).
Both films are made by the legendary Italian director Mario Monicelli (who has authored other legendary comedies like "Amici miei" = "My friends").
In it a conscious full blown black satire of the middle ages is presented, including religion, chivalry, romance, nobility, the knight's quest and other such themes.
For those of you who can find the movie(s) with English subtitles, i would highly recommend them, although i have to underline that the archaic dialects of the Italian language and all their linguistic mannerisms Brancaleone and other characters speak are one of the highest pleasures of the film. In the second installment, most speech is delivered theatrically and in rhyme, adding to the feeling that one is infact watching an actual medieval ballad (that is punctuated by other elements of the narrative, as the duel between Brancaleone and Death himself).
What about other mainhallers' medieval cinematic preferences? and a few words about them and why you like them please.
The Lurker Below
02-17-2010, 20:28
i'd like to toss in an honorable mention for The Court Jester here. it is the Spaceballs of its day. a very popular version of Robin Hood and a movie called The Scarlet Pimpernel had just been released a couple years prior to it. Danny Kaye lends a great deal of satirical talent to make an enjoyable film.
Thanks for making me aware of this classic and awarded film, The lurker below. Lets see if anyone will mention El Cid: "From my cold dead hands!"
:bow:
Trapped in Samsara
02-18-2010, 11:09
Hi
OK. A fantasy trilogy so probably inadmissible, but some of the battles in Peter Jackson's LoTR's The Two Towers and The Return of the King are pretty stirring. The charge of the Riders of Rohan before the walls of Minas Tirith! Great stuff.
Regards
Victor
Well Tolkien after all was a prof. in medieval litterature. Rohan is basically the Anglo-Saxons on horses (which Tolkien felt that if only they had in Hastings they would have beaten the Normans, the conquest of England by which he lamented as he had a deep love and affection for the Germanic mythos and ethos of the Anglo-Saxon culture), and Gondor a cross between French/Italians of the middle ages.
I always liked Mel Brookes' Robin Hood: Men in Tights. From a castle being wheeled away on a massive cart to needing a locksmith for a chastity belt. One of my favourite movies.
I'll definitely look into L'armata Brancaleone and Brancaleone alle Crociate. Thanks for the recommendation.
Here are the intro clips from both films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOWIDZH9AQ&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9PrWuT-E-0
Belisario
02-19-2010, 21:48
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Braveheart. How many MTW fans modded the game to play with the Scots inspired by this movie? I confess that I did it.
Certainly a most worthy and necessary addition to the list of favorite and inspirational medieval films.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Braveheart. How many MTW fans modded the game to play with the Scots inspired by this movie? I confess that I did it.
Frogbeastegg will kill me for saying this, but Braveheart is my favorite (serious) medieval-era movie as well; in fact, it's actually in my personal "Top Ten" list overall. Gross historical inaccuracies aside, I have to admit I find it a highly entertaining film.
Kingdom of Heaven gets an honorable mention. While it admittedly receives too much of the Ridley Scott "treatment" IMO, it still seems to do a reasonably good job of portraying medieval life.
All that being said.... If we're not excluding "serious" medieval movies, then my favorites are -- far and away -- The Princess Bride and Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Among me and my friends, I would be hard-pressed to think of two films that get quoted more often by us. ~D
Favorite yes, but serious?
I reckognise that Braveheart had tremendous impact and even that it has charm for the historical epic fan, but truth be told it did so for all the wrong reasons.
The story, characters and cinematography are so pretentious and calculated for the intended effect, that its hard watching the movie without feeling appaled occasionally. The good bad duality is so very strong and punctuated, as other dualities as well: the male/female (that in film terms denotes the braveness of braveheart and the chickenness of Longshack's effeminate son), the "fairness" of battle valor (as if such a thing ever existed) that contrasts between Longshacks that is willing to sacrifice his own men (by pouring arrows in the melee), while Braveheart (implicitly) frowns upon such "unfair" tactics. Also the ahistoricaleness of the movie, especially the battle depictions is legendary - basically this is little more than historically inspired fiction.
By the way, it was Braveheart (among other things) that inspired (as a blueprnint and model) CA to do RTW and M2TW what they were - ie excercises in visual entertainment which is what Braveheart itself is.
As for the Kingdom of Heaven, although not without its virtues, it is imo a little more than a car commercial with a medieval theme. The fact that Orlando bloom can't act in a lead role by any means and so is terribly miscasted doesn't help matters either. Gladiator, which is the same thing as KoH, was much better simply because it was correctly casted.
All in all, you have many more to be afraid of than just ladyfrog.
:bow:
Ironsword
02-21-2010, 15:21
I guess it's a medieval/myth crossover, but Excalibur was pretty amazing. Castle sieges, Jousts, personal combat and Jean-Luc Picard before Star Trek!
Excalibur is one of the best acted movies ever - that's because all actors were theatrical (british) actors. An amazing film and one that never tires me to watch again and again. Its mythos is deep and characters, story, dialogue are as much (if not much more!) enjoyable than the action scenes. The action itself is realistic and non-pretentious. An all time favorite for me.
Belisario
02-21-2010, 17:55
I agree with your reviews about Braveheart. Certainly the movie has historical inaccuracies and fall in topics. But, as Martoy says, I find it a highly entertaining film and even has the charm of the historical novels of Walter Scott like Ivanhoe. And excuse me if the comparison offends somebody.
I also admit that Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorites, a truly inspirational film to any MTW player. And about main characters, I'm looking forward to seeing Russell Crowe again in the new version of Robin Hood legend by Ridley Scott.
All in all, you have many more to be afraid of than just ladyfrog.
:bow:
Perhaps. But she's the one I fear most. ~;p
Froggy (very understandably) tends to have....strong feelings about films that portray England as the stereotypical "evil overlord/imperialistic megalomaniac", especially since it seems to happen so often. I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond.... :sweatdrop:
I keep meaning to ask what her feelings are on Master & Commander: The Far Side of the World, as it's one of the relatively few movies I can think of where the English are actually the good guys. Of course, the "bad guys" are changed from the USA in the book to the French in the movie; go figure.... ~:rolleyes:
I also admit that Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorites, a truly inspirational film to any MTW player. And about main characters, I'm looking forward to seeing Russell Crowe again in the new version of Robin Hood legend by Ridley Scott.
Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well. In truth, I suspect that's one reason why I enjoy the film so much, as it reminds me of the game. :yes:
Oiginally posted by Martok
I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond....
Neither are we towards it. Hollywood fillmmaking rarely (if ever) elevates itself to the "art" of cinema these days. However its most bitter critics are American directors of value actually. Read Coppola or Milius on the subject; they have a lot of "nice" things to say about modern Hollywood studio managers.
Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well.
That makes three of us. KoH has quite a few nice elements as say the costumes; some of the best armourers and costume makers were employed, and the results are great. The scenes of the armies marching to meet each other outside kerak are spectacular. The desert/landscapes are also well cinematographed in certain instances, despite the fact that for those who know, its clear that its the Moroccan desert and not the near eastern one.
Other drawbacks imo of the KoH are the patronising parts of the plot (that have pro-semitic modern political and moral overtones) as well as the secularised view of the Crusades and religion that is deplorable in a film of that sort and that era. The fast commercial like pace that Scott works in (he and his brother that made TopGun have one of the most succesful commercial spots companies ever) is also not fit to the theme and takes a lot from the movie in all areas.
In general , as many Scott films of this day and age, it is an opportunity wasted.
:bow:
The Lurker Below
02-22-2010, 18:32
Perhaps. But she's the one I fear most. ~;p
Froggy (very understandably) tends to have....strong feelings about films that portray England as the stereotypical "evil overlord/imperialistic megalomaniac", especially since it seems to happen so often. I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond.... :sweatdrop:
Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well. In truth, I suspect that's one reason why I enjoy the film so much, as it reminds me of the game. :yes:
the "evil overlord" english is what most appeals to me in Braveheart. Scotch/Irish, Scots, Irish, and Welsh long ingrained feelings towards the english give 18th and 19th century american politics it's best flavor.
I can't stand that the princess who was in reality still in France had a role in the movie, but her use as an emissary reminds me of MTW.
edyzmedieval
03-02-2010, 09:34
Definitely Kingdom of Heaven, and I don't know why to be honest. I really enjoyed it.
Men in Tights was hilarious.
Speaking of the KoH, as most of you know, it is based and follows (sometimes more and sometimes less loosely) historical personalities and events. The despicable raids of Reynald de Chatillon that are punished in the film by Balbwin, King of Jerusalem, in reality took place against Byzantine Cyprus in conjuction with the Armenian rulers of little Armenia that took part in the raid. Nominally at the time Reynald as the ruler of Antioch was vassal of Manuel Komnenos the third of the Comnenian Byzantine emperors. Manuel's retribution was swift; he marched with his army catching Raynald with his "pants down", so to speak, as he barely had return from the raid. Much like in the film, Reynald decided to willingly take the humiliation and plea for mercy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_I_Komnenos
(cyprus invaded and manuel in antioch)
The episode is apparently lifted and fitted in the plot of the film.
Belisario
03-04-2010, 01:21
Raynald's humiliation to king Baldwin in the film maybe is inspired in his forced homage to Manuel Komnenos, but Raynald's despicable raids also took place against muslim caravans and even launched a pirate attack on the Red Sea during his rule as lord of Oultrejordain, and he was executed by Saladin himself after the Battle of Hattin as it's showed in the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynald_of_Ch%C3%A2tillon
Madoushi
03-04-2010, 01:57
I'll admit I've not yet seen Kingdom of Heaven (I think I always confuse it with The Kingdom)
I must say I'm probably one of the only people who didn't enjoy The Princess Bride. I much preferred Holy Grail, Men in Tights and especially A Knight's Tale.
I don't know that I've even SEEN many Medieval movies, aside from 294759378593785923 different renditions of Robin Hood and King Arthur.
The only one that stands out is Alexander which is difficult for me to watch, as it really plays up his vulnerability and self-destructiveness.
Indeed Belisario, actually the scene of his execution has been shortened in the theatrical version of the film (but restored in the director's cut). After Saladin slits his throat, the guards torture him some before he finally passes away by Saladin's hand. The full scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p43TKmJ3Nd0&feature=related
:bow:
Welcome to the org and the main hall Madoushi, enjoy your stay.
I haven't watched Alexander yet, apart from segments of teh gaugamela battle in youtube. It seemed much better than i expected, although in my oppinion its miscasted and i am not a big fan of Oliver Stone.
Here are some lists of medieval films:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medfilms.html#listsacc
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medfilms.html#listsfilm
I am surprised that no-one mentioned El-Cid yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XXvtIHRSq4
:bow:
Trapped in Samsara
03-04-2010, 13:46
Hi
Have any of you chaps seen Willow?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096446/
It's got some great hand-to-hand combat & swordplay scenes in it.
Plus some rather slushy elements to the fantasy storyline - and a bit of humour - it has to be said.
Regards
Victor
Yes, willow had its moments as did legend. My personal favorite for swords and sorcery (although in actuality its much more in line with classic epic filmmaking in the Kurosawa streak) is John Milius' Conan the Barbarian (Conan the destroyer was overly commercial exploitation imo). Even Swartzy plays great, testimony that a good script and director with vision is what really makes a film.
There are also a series of eastern european films that portray the Teutonic Wars: one of them is the classic Alexander Nevsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky_(film)), by the all time great director Sergei Eisenstein.
The film is in black and white, but a joy to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bfDJcZE2aM
Also noteworthy is the Polish film Krzyżacy (knights of the cross)- which portrays the battle of Grunwald,in which the Teutonic order lost to Poland- Lithuania
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V57TrI6_4U&feature=related
Trapped in Samsara
03-04-2010, 18:05
Hi
Gollum, you've reminded me of Andrei Tarkovsky's "Andrei Rublev". The horror and utter grimness and despair inducing reality of Medieval existence graphically portrayed.
Regards
Victor
An excellent movie Victor. I myself never watched it, the only Tarkovsky film i've watched was mirror, which was utterly great (i was lucky enough to watch it in a theater). I've got to see Solaris too one day, although as most will know it has been remade.
1. Flesh & Blood (P. Verhoeven with Rutger Hauer and Jennifer Jason Leigh) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesh_%26_Blood_(film) - Dark, violent, etc What's not to like ...
2. 13th Warrior - Was a huge flop when it came out. Bought the DVD for € 8,00 or something just to check. Kind of movie you can always watch when bored on a Sunday evening ...
3. Lady Hawke - Rutger Hauer again with M. Pfeiffer and Matthew Broderick. Quite nice but the music is very 80's and gets in the way AFAIK
4. Excalibur - Would probably be higher on the list if I had not seen it that many times. Nice to know that Morgane finally became the Queen (ok sorry) ...
5. The Lion in Winter - The best actors and script by far. Probably the best film of the lot but not one I would watch over and over again.
Nice list Jxrc, i sort of like the 13th warrior, because among other things its lifted wholesale from the 7 samurai. Some parts of the movie are really ok. The most ridiculous bit is the neaderdal enemies for me. It takes a lot out of the film, and what it makes is little imo.
:bow:
The most ridiculous bit is the neaderdal enemies for me. It takes a lot out of the film, and what it makes is little imo.
Looks a bit silly indeed but they probably needed to make the "evil guys" not too smart to justify that they run away for the mere fact that the "mother" and they guy with the "horns of power" have been butchered ...
Not the kind of film to watch in a too critical frame of mind ... Just enjoy the final "Lo, there do I see my father Lo, there do I see my mother, my sisters and my brothers ... they bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla Where the brave may live forever" :))
Indeed the (russian i think) actor that plays Biliwoolf (from the Anglo Saxon epic Beowulf) is very good in his part.
:bow:
HopAlongBunny
03-11-2010, 18:25
Holy Grail.
The filth and stench of medieval living almost oozes from the screen.
The Black Knight scene is legend :)
heh - finally. Indeed holy Grail is a classic by all accounts. The satire, the animations, the acting and the superb direction (which is shown in scenes that are "serious" in between the gags). An all time classic and favorite, accessible and boys only (few femmales i know really like it), which is another plus ;)
:bow:
Braveheart is my favorite (serious) medieval-era movie as well; in fact, it's actually in my personal "Top Ten" list overall. Gross historical inaccuracies aside, I have to admit I find it a highly entertaining film.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that film is one of the biggest steaming piles of poo ever to released upon the world. The film is a unpleasant medium for the director's unsavoury political and social views and xenophobia. It ooozes anglophobia, homophobia, scots nationalistic ideals and is in essence a propaganda piece. It steals the character of William Wallace and perverts it to suit Gibson's propaganda aims. (the long haired hippies in woad and kilts are also laughable, it's about as historical as LOTR). On the surface it seems harmless, but sadly people often believe that such films are historically accurate or come to incorrect conclusion as to what is accurate and what isn't.
Yohei
I actually always had a question about BH; in the first battle depicted, after he makes his rousing speech and the troops start cheering, he says something in celtic/gaellic (i guess), something to the effect of "Gaora Gabra" (with apologies for my ignorence). Does anyone know what it means and how its spelled?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo
Just to refresh your memories..., please enlighten me.
:bow:
Also forgot to mention that unsurprisingly no one mentioned Luc Beson's Jean D'Arc - The Messasnger. It was a terrible film really and in all probability as many gossiping and not so gossiping sources say a pet project of his then girlfriend and supermodel protagonist Mila Yovovitch. At the time, Mila was in her early twenties and the depiction of the Saint is pretty much along the lines of a protestingly atheistic worldview that abounds among 20something year olds. Besson had little choice it seems than accept the idea, and the two of them were riding on the success and the confidence it brings, of teh 5th element in which Mila was substantially better at acting since she had virtually no dialogue :)
In any case, Jean D'Arc, despite many stellar actors and an expensive and very historically accurate production was a commercial and critical flop as it deserved, since the subtext through which the astounding by all accounts personality of the Saint was approached discarded religion and was there to "prove something" - ie that you have to practice what you preach and that morality cannot be achieved by returning violence to the violent, typical 20something year old points.
Unsurprisingly the best actors of the film were the ones portraying the English. Even good actors like Dustin Hoffman and Faye Danaway are burried by the script and the depiction of the characters they interpret. However the worst performance imo goes without a shadow of a doubt to Mrs Yovovitch :) Trully despicable portrayal of one of the most intruiging and bold persons to have ever lived.
I like however the assault sequence of teh Tourelles - it was beautifully shot and climaxed.
Unfortunately for Luc, the movie flopping seems to have separated him from Mila ;)
:bow:
Ser Clegane
04-01-2010, 15:35
Of the more recent movies I would second KoH* and Jeanne D'Arc (setting historical accuracy aside I actually also like Braveheart).
One of the older movies I am quite fond of is El Cid - although I am generally not very fond of Charlton Heston as an actor.
*EDIT: referring to the Director's Cut - the cinematic version was too obviously cut, it did not really flow.
Apart from comedy (Monty Python) and fantasy (LotR, Excalibur), I guess Braveheart is the only one I can think of. This is not to say that I adore the film, but simply I can't think of a better one. Kingdom of Heaven was to me just a mindless action movie with a medieval theme. Jean d'Arc I found to be simply boring "aRtsY" lunacy. And actionless drama isn't my thing when it comes to medieval setting, because it's pretty much impossible to credibly reenact medieval setting and even if someone actually managed to pull it off, I just wouldn't be able to relate to such clueless people. So what are we left with... Gladiator, Troy and 300 weren't medieval, they were ancient... Can't think of anything :/
EDIT: I just remembered feudal japan (Akira Kurosawa's stuff), but I wouldn't consider them to qualify for the question either.
I think that Charlton Easton and Sophia Loren embodied such perfect (male and female, respectively) stereotypes in El Cid, that it actually works for the movie (paradoxically), despite or perhaps because their performances flirt with being caricatures. Sophia clearly won the race though - even though Charlton was such tough competition. The production is very ambitious (especially given the time it was shot) and i would say monumental.
However none of them was as much caricature as Orlando Bloom and Eva Green in KoH. Classically stereotypical Hollywood lines for the first "fateful" meeting of him and her ("give me a cigarette" etc) were directly translated to the medieval age ("give me some water"). The performances were, in adition, wooden and unreal and they followed the equally unreal transformation of Balian from a country side blacksmith to an expert swordsman, strategist, lover and pseudophilosophising moralist in no time. Bloom's dyslexia also took its toll in his delivering of his lines. He was far better in support roles as in Lord of the Rings imo.
However none of them was as much caricature as Orlando Bloom and Eva Green in KoH. Classically stereotypical Hollywood lines for the first "fateful" meeting of him and her ("give me a cigarette" etc) were directly translated to the medieval age ("give me some water"). The performances were, in adition, wooden and unreal and they followed the equally unreal transformation of Balian from a country side blacksmith to an expert swordsman, strategist, lover and pseudophilosophising moralist in no time. Bloom's dyslexia also took its toll in his delivering of his lines. He was far better in support roles as in Lord of the Rings imo.
Yep, that about says it all.
The film was inbalanced. Especially the defender siege AI, since they could take so many siege towers out with these "contraptions" that
they had in Jerusalem. Not to say anything about the completely absurd Virtues that Balian must have had! "Extreme Swordsman",
"Prettyboy" etc....
But the morale and fatigue penalties in the desert they got right at least.
On another note, the classic film The Seventh Seal is pretty decent.
Indeed Durango,
your compatriot Ingmar Bergman has given us this theater-like classic, in which a weary knight returns to his plagued homeland from the crusades, disgrantled and disillusioned, and battles Death incarnate in an allegorical chess match as he struggles to find meaning in a world where Death, spiritual and physical, seems to have absolute rule.
A very worthy and necassary addition to the list, although containing no action (in case anyone was expecting it).
:bow:
virus_found
03-26-2011, 21:58
This http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102081 and this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089322 come to mind. I don't count The Holy Grail here, because it's different. Monty Python is Monty Python.
edyzmedieval
03-26-2011, 23:51
However none of them was as much caricature as Orlando Bloom and Eva Green in KoH. Classically stereotypical Hollywood lines for the first "fateful" meeting of him and her ("give me a cigarette" etc) were directly translated to the medieval age ("give me some water"). The performances were, in adition, wooden and unreal and they followed the equally unreal transformation of Balian from a country side blacksmith to an expert swordsman, strategist, lover and pseudophilosophising moralist in no time. Bloom's dyslexia also took its toll in his delivering of his lines. He was far better in support roles as in Lord of the Rings imo.
I didn't pay that much attention to Balian. Eva Green is way too beautiful/hot for me to even think about Orlando Bloom's acting... ~D
Thanks for bringing up these films virous found. They certainly seem interesting and the fact that they seem native productions make them all the more so.
Well edyz, if you have the hots for Eva, i rest my case ;)
edyzmedieval
03-27-2011, 00:19
Well edyz, if you have the hots for Eva, i rest my case ;)
Yeah, right, like you wouldn't when I show you this... http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zJZbKdIHjj8/TRr6QYJzmWI/AAAAAAAAAaw/E5DbgHIn130/s1600/evagreen_elle_007.jpg
~;)
This could be the beginning of the "Favorite medieval film Lady" thread, which, assuming all are as inspired as you, may well outdo the babe thread - and considering how much drone seems to hang in there this is a very realistic development ;)
We got the right kind of mod-e for that sort of thing, here in the main hall.
PershsNhpios
03-27-2011, 02:17
My favourites are surprisingly unacknowledged here...
El Cid was mentioned once, and I found this to be a remarkably poetic film. It was slightly too American for my liking, as are such films as Fall of the Roman Empire and Ben-Hur, which I paradoxically find difficult to watch because, since I have such a high fascination and respect for the era, any perceived disrespect or ignorance found in the film will cause it to be very blemished in my view.
Nonetheless, I found the portrayal of Cid's era to be marvellously real and immersive, but the spiritual accent wasn't there, since it was replaced with a more American Christian zeal. If El Cid could have been played with the same wardrobe, scenery (I have fallen in love with Espagna in that movie) and actorship, but with the feeling, spirit and old Iberian style of religious zeal shown in Guns for San Sebastian, then I would watch it o'er and o'er..
(A side note for brother Gollum, I watched Guns for San Sebastian having adopted Anthony Quinn as my favourite actor after seeing Zorba the Greek. That film mirrors my own spirit. Χόπα!)
One which I saw only once, and only in part, but which has gripped my interest is Ivanhoe, which is also a mediaevally religious tale. The combat, as in the Duel of El Cid, is highly immersive and quite shocking the first time it is seen. I wish I could have seen more of this, but I can say that the wardrobe, actorship and story were I believe on par with that of El Cid. This is an old movie, but in colour.
Two movies now with another of my favourite actors, Connery (My most favourite movie ever was made so by the combination of two favourite actors, 'The Man Who Would Be King'), who starred in a mystery called The Name of the Rose, which is based on the book, Il Noma della Rosa. The movie is dark, set in I believe Alpine Italy where Connery is sent with a young protégée to investigate a vicious murder which occured in an isolated Monastery. The film involves the inquisition, envelops the audience in the austere, scholarly life of the monks and is the only movie in which I have seen classical Greek involved in the script.
There is even a scene in which Connery attempts to read aloud some of the (I believe) Aristotelean manuscript.
It is a very intriguing murder mystery, and a unique movie.
Now I also enjoyed Connery's role as Robin Hood, but I cannot remember the title of that movie - he is a much more world-weary Hood than is usually portrayed.
If I may digress to a 'more civilised era', if you are interested in the above choices, allow me to introduce you to a film, the only one I know of, which represents the Thirty Years War.
It stars my only other favourite actor apart from Quinn and Connery, the only other British actor, Michael Caine, and is called The Last Valley, in which a small alpine village seems to remain the last valley settlement untouched in Central Europe by plague and war. This is brought into jeopardy when a plagued wanderer (Omar Sharif) and a mercenary captain and his party (Caine) stumble at once upon the village and attempt to find shelter in the isolating winter and co-exist with each other, whilst the town tries to maintain independence, and the Captain to subdue it.
---
My favourite mediaeval lady would be that French bint from Braveheart, but let's not tarnish the Hall with whores and carnal sins.
Thank you for your list and analyses, Glenn.
The "Name of the Rose" comes from the book of the same name by Italian philosopher, semiotics Professor and author Umberto Eco. The film is a European production entirely and the actors chosen for it are also predominantly europeans as well as the director; in fact the director had to sell his own private building in Munich to finance the film :) - it has a very good air of authenticity. It features the first role of Christian Slater in the big screen.
The plot revolves around a series of murders of Monks that work in teh Scriptorium of a famous Benedictine Italian monastery and use the famous library of it, which is of limited access to strangers and outsiders. At the same time there is a meeting between the various monastic orders and Papal delegates that debate the ecclesiastical problem of the time ie how the calling of Christ for poverty is to be understood by the Church as an institution.
It is indeed a fine film, although a little bit revisionist as is its author - ie it places a very modern mentality man who happens to be a Sherlock Holmes of sorts as well in a medieval setting, and the era is viewed from his perspective that coincides with that of the viewer. However, this is fully plausible, and throughout the middle ages there wwere such people. Overall it is indeed a very enjoyable and authentically produced medieval film and highly reccomended (although it has no battle action in case anyone was expecting any).
I agree with your assessment of El Cid. It certainly has strong points, and the production as i posted back in the day is really top notch. The battle scenes are also amazing and pretty realistic too in how they portray tactics of teh era.
I'll check out Last Valley, i also enjoy Michael Caine's acting - he's really a very good actor.
The lady you like in Braveheart is Sophie Marceau, and i have to commend your taste on this one; much more my cup of tea than Eva Green ;)
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://junkball.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/sophie-marceau-wallpapers1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://junkball.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/happy-birthday-to-sophie-marceau/&h=768&w=549&sz=266&tbnid=U92htLf2X0Ab3M:&tbnh=266&tbnw=190&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsophie%2Bmarceau&zoom=1&q=sophie+marceau&hl=en&usg=__Z9dPh89WAtbYeUs3Tp9J_ih2V6k=&sa=X&ei=eJiOTaiqK8eBhQfO2Im8Dg&ved=0CCkQ9QEwAA
And just to do real justice to Sophie, take your pick ;) :
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=sophie%20marceau&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1190&bih=719
This could be the beginning of the "Favorite medieval film Lady" thread, which, assuming all are as inspired as you, may well outdo the babe thread - and considering how much drone seems to hang in there this is a very realistic development ;)
We got the right kind of mod-e for that sort of thing, here in the main hall.
To the best of my knowledge, the "babes in the Babe Thread only " restriction is for the off-topic forums only. ~;) Long hair stacked up 10 feet high and corsets, yeah, I have no problem with that.
I would also recommend The Name of The Rose, good movie and good book.
Now I also enjoyed Connery's role as Robin Hood, but I cannot remember the title of that movie - he is a much more world-weary Hood than is usually portrayed.
Robin and Marian (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075147/)?
PershsNhpios
03-27-2011, 09:32
Robin and Marian would be the one.
And yes brother Gollum that is the mediaeval crumpet I was referring to.
She looks quite French in all of those pictures, but in some of them she is exceedingly French.
From the train of this discussion, I fear our Hall is less chaste than would be expected of a brotherhood.
One pretty decent one I saw recently: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0837106/
It's not been mentioned, probably because it sends them into a lather, but the Eva Green fan-club should stick to Bertolucci's The Dreamers.
Commenting on a few that have already been mentioned:
The Polish film Krzyżacy (English title: Knights of the Teutonic Order) is certainly different, but it requires a fair bit of background knowledge to make sense of: at least read the Wikipedia entry on the Battle of Grunwald/Tannenberg so that you understand the lead up to the battle and the significance of the two swords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunwald_Swords).
Gollum's synopsis of Brancaleone:
In it a conscious full blown black satire of the middle ages is presented, including religion, chivalry, romance, nobility, the knight's quest and other such themes.reminds me of the Decameron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decameron), written in the 1350s (and, I suppose, The Canterbury Tales also). However, Pasolini's attempts to film them haven't been too successful - quite comic for not necessarily the right reasons and pretty fruity.
As for my favourite? I haven't got one, or at least not seen one that would hit the spot. Monty Python and the Holy Grail is marvellous, obviously, but I was disappointed many years after first seeing it when I discovered that interdental brushes do exist.
One of the best I've seen that's not been mentioned is Marketa Lazarova (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063278/). It evokes central Europe with a population less than one twentieth of now: wide, empty spaces; clan more important than some distant king; ramshackle buildings; and a hand-to-mouth existance for all.
The same director made another film set in the middle ages: Valley of the Bees (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122770/), but it's not anywhere near as good.
Kingdom of Heaven - but only the Director's Cut version - I think it is the best movie about crusaders ever made. Excellent directing, cinematography, scenography, costumes, fighting scenes, ah... everything but Balianorlando! What is he doing in that movie, and his totally artificial character, arrrgh, that priest in the beginning should push him into the fire!
Name of the Rose - the book is great(excellent as for medieval philosophy and teology, intellectual though in general) and movie adaptation was made very well, especially scenography and casting are really good.
Joan of Arc by Luc Besson - I know, it's totally unhistorical, pure funny entertainment, but directed well and I enjoyed this movie.
I also partially saw some older movie about Virgin of Orleans which probably was very historically accurate, but because of night and weariness, unfortunatelly I dropped off.
Is '1492: Conquest of Paradise' still a medieval movie? If so, it's definitely the best one, the story was so well displayed, and even if you know how all of this happened, the movie pulls you into seat.
It's a big surprise for me that some of you know "Krzyżacy" :) That was a pinnacle of socialist movie production and I'd say it's the biggest superproduction, blockbuster made in Poland to date, and it is not good...
Movie was probably awesome when it was released, now it's not very enjoyable, but maybe I write that, because I don't like Sienkiewicz' literature :P
You really like Braveheart? I couldn't stand hollywood style in that movie, good-evil concept, Mel Gibson and arms/armour - it's just terrible. New 'Robin Hood" is slightly better, but why, why Scott could make such a bad movie after 1492, KoH and others, I don't understand...
You really like Braveheart? I couldn't stand hollywood style in that movie, good-evil concept, Mel Gibson and arms/armour - it's just terrible.
The less said about it the better - though I actually commend CA for the "Mel Gibsons at Arms" that you can recruit in Scotland in MTW - someone must have had a particularly nasty sense of humour to put those in there...
//edit: Actually it would be interesting to mod your "Mel Gibsons at Arms" to have a negative impact on the jewish religious percentage in a province... more historically accurate...
Braveheart fans can stick Henry the Fifth (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036910/) in their pipes and smoke it. If you don't like the chatting up of a French princess in that film, blame Shakespeare!
Also, no mention in this thread of Les Visiteurs (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108500/). Come on, it even got a horrendous Hollywood remake.
Geezer57
04-11-2011, 23:46
One which I saw only once, and only in part, but which has gripped my interest is Ivanhoe,
Thanks for mentioning Ivanhoe (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044760/) - if I had one favorite, this would be the one. For a 1952 film, the final trial-by-combat is extremely intense - amazingly well choreographed for the period. And the stellar cast (Robert Taylor, Elizabeth Taylor, Joan Fontaine, etc.) doesn't hurt the least little bit.
Yes Plato, Les Visiteurs is lots of fun - partly because its French, partly because of Jean Reno and partly because of the contrast of medieval and modern age mentality. My favorite is the bathroom scene :laugh4:
While I totally fail to see how this is a MTW related topic, I’ll happily participate here since Drone is seemingly ok with this…
For me,
“Name of the Rose” is the way to go… I just love that soundtrack and overall it is an excellent film straight up. I think Connery (a much underrated actor) does ones of his best performances ever in that film. …Wonderful story and scenery - very dramatic and interesting. I have not read the book, but I suspect it to be good as U.Eco is one very smart and educated man…
“Ladyhawke” could (it should) have been good, but the soundtrack really killed that movie. Rutger Hauer is doing an excellent part there (the man can act, he just do it in the wrong films usually).
“Black Death” is pretty good, for those of you who have missed it. Good story with a twist and overall I like it.
As for medieval fantasy/mythic stuff…
“Excalibur” rocks all over essentially. That is a great film and also one of my all time faves. The soundtrack is just fantastic. And, that “love”-scene in full plate-armour is just priceless! I want more of that! Hell, I want to do that! :laugh4:
Tolkien/Lotr stuff doesn’t count as it deserves a category of its own… Good stuff anyhow. Although the soundtrack is not as good as I would have liked. To me it is essentially poor instrumentation that is the biggest cause for it (too much brass, too little strings). And perhaps too, ah well I don’t like the choir-boy-thingy-fetish that Howard (the composer) is in too…
Going for Dungeons and Dragons then….
Conan the Barbarian the movie remains to me the best one ever made in this seriously beaten up and mistreated genre (movie-wise) and I think it is actually a very good movie in general. James Earl Jones and Mako does some wonderful work in there. The photo and visual composition is real good, and the soundtrack – yet again – is to me a masterpiece. Yup, a masterpiece…
Bubb-blubby-lub done…
- Cheers
"Krzyżacy" polish film from 1960, by Aleksander Ford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE0u_JhuLfk
one more trailer, this one with english subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V57TrI6_4U&feature=related
One more polish classical film is "Potop. It's not medieval, but 17th century. There is a link to very nice battle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNl0poj5z90 . Poland vs Sweden, first you have charge of polish "steppe cavalry" - Crimean Tatars and after charge of polish heavy cavalry called "husaria"
Welcome to the org Kopta, enjoy your stay. Some of the films you bring us have been mentioned.
Originally posted by Axalon
Hell, I want to do that!
Where there is a will there is a way ;) :
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4166/dsc0077d.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php%3F154416-UK-Henry-VIII-armour-to-be-exhibited/page3&usg=__lcevErVKVINJ-R-VgyTIfkekYAI=&h=640&w=428&sz=108&hl=en&start=26&zoom=1&tbnid=WDyZxbuAU1EoKM:&tbnh=156&tbnw=104&ei=ibGmTZqgFI-L5AbkpaCNCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgothic%2Bsuits%2Broyal%2Barmouries%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1179%26bih%3D671%26tbm%3D isch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=190&oei=grGmTbP_CMGo8APzurmnBg&page=2&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:26&tx=57&ty=77
Interesting stuf, welcome to the .org and the Main Hall, Kopta.
:bow:
it;s not film, but gallery from staging Grunwald(Tannenberg) battle, http://www.grunwald1410.pl/index.php?art=10115
Where there is a will there is a way ;)
Yeah, you might be on to something there.... :)
...
Anyway, I forgot about “Hollywoodorama” in my previous post so to remedy that…
Ivanhoe, the 50’s version, takes the price for me too… I like it – despite Robert Taylor’s American-English (it’s like when Kevin Costner does Robin Hood – it does not work). That final fight certainly is dramatic (and there is a cool castle-fight-siege too, right?). If I remember this right – there is a heavy use of SFX while little or no music in that final fight-scene – very dramatic.…
As for El-Cid, while everything looks fine on paper - I somehow could never appreciate it in the way I did with Ivanhoe, despite being all big and monster-sized it still lacks something. I can’t exactly pinpoint it as I write this - but something is missing. However, the “city-duel-scene” between champions is pretty good and dramatic. Besides, Heston belongs in Ben-Hur and not in Spain…. :laugh4:
Diddeli-doo-done
- Cheers
i put el cid in the book thread, never saw the movie, book was good
First and foremost, every movie i've seen has historical inaccuracies. Some more so than others. Still my favorites are Braveheart, Kingdom of Heaven, Arn the Templar, The Lion in Winter, Joan of Arc (one of the newer ones), the most recent Robin Hood with Russel Crowe despite the nonsense in it, like a horse bringing down the reinforced wooden gate of a motte&bailey with it's front hooves.
Cyprian2
05-24-2011, 04:21
I regret not coming to this thread sooner, and I fear the discussion may have fizzled out, but I thought I'd put my two cents in, anyway :). First off, I want to wholeheartedly second Glenn's choice, The Last Valley. While not, technically, set in the "medieval" period, it is certainly medieval in tone. It's also unflinching in its portrayal of imperfect men (who are nonetheless heroic in stature) pursuing their own greedy inclinations, and the violence that results. Now, it's not a perfect film by any means, and it's rife with historical truth-bending, but definitely worth a watch.
Gollum, I was totally unaware of the Monicelli oeuvre, but I will take some time to discover it. The clips from youtube looked fascinatingly funny. I hope it's not too pedestrian of me to say that it reminded me, in spirit, of certain films by Fellini (most notably Amarcord, which obviously isn't a medieval film at all).
i would highly recommend them, although i have to underline that the archaic dialects of the Italian language and all their linguistic mannerisms Brancaleone and other characters speak are one of the highest pleasures of the film.
Does that mean you are fluent in old Italian? The mystery deepens.
Of the worthy films so far mentioned, I'd also like to second The Seventh Seal (true: no action of the swordplay variety, but death is very *active* nonetheless). Also, Excalibur was one of my favourite films as a kid. The Name of the Rose is solid, but the book's better. Oh, and Lion in the Winter is a brilliant little number, too. For those interested in Henry II, there's also Jean Anouilh's Becket, which features the incomparable O'Toole/Burton team. It is more dramatic than it is action-packed, but well-acted and captivating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becket_(film)
Finally, let me add another film to the pile. It's Icelandic, from 1984: Hrafninn Flygur (The Way the Raven Flies). It's about revenge and mixed loyalties and is eerie and brilliant. It's also very "gunslingeresque" (without, of course, having guns, because it's set in Viking era Iceland. So, yes, it falls, technically, within the Dark Ages, but I think it should still qualify by dint of its finely-honed medieval bleakness). I will say that the soundtrack is a bit cheesy at times, but provides some much-needed levity.
And has anyone seen Flesh and Blood (1985)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesh_%26_Blood_(film) I wouldn't mention it, except the first thirty minutes or so are really fantastic (bloodthirsty 1500s Italy!). The rest of the film, however, is a full-on travesty.
Also, something that everyone should remember about Dreyer's (1928, silent) The Passion of Joan of Arc is that it uses the actual script (supposedly––as it was handed down) of her trial, and that is interesting enough in itself for the film to warrant inclusion in this list.
As for El Cid, well, it is what it is: a rousing piece of b-movie history. Who doesn't want to watch something like that from time to time? Kingdom of Heaven and Braveheart both function well in Cid's tradition. But Cid stands out, to my mind, as the best of the bunch. Who doesn't love the scene at the end with the shining dead-guy blinding all the Moors. (Oops. Hope I haven't spoiled it for anyone...)
PershsNhpios
05-25-2011, 10:14
Thank you for your hearty post, brother Cyprian, and I too am interested in brother Gollum's knowledge of archaic Italian.
I haven’t any other films from the mediaeval repertoire to recite and analyse, but I must ask, considering the interests which I find here, your opinion of this; my favourite movie and tale of all:
The Man Who Would Be King.
I would not dare spoil the story or the movie for any of you who have not seen it, but I can watch it over and over with my two favourite actors side by side, and never tire of that happy and dreadful tale.
Cyprian2
05-26-2011, 07:40
I haven’t any other films from the mediaeval repertoire to recite and analyse, but I must ask, considering the interests which I find here, your opinion of this; my favourite movie and tale of all:
The Man Who Would Be King.
I would not dare spoil the story or the movie for any of you who have not seen it, but I can watch it over and over with my two favourite actors side by side, and never tire of that happy and dreadful tale.
One of the best, Glenn, and utterly worth watching again and again. Very medieval in spirit, if not in setting. I fell in love with it some years ago. Nothing beats the sly repartee between Caine and Connery––ah, Peachy; ah, Dravot––as they set off on the adventure to end all adventures. A rare example of a film that far transcends the story on which it is based (though Kipling's story is not a bad read, either).
Once again, I must commend your good taste!
Gilrandir
05-26-2011, 14:16
Discussing films we might as well speak about documentaries. I mean the TV show called "Decisive battles" or something like that, which analyzes famous historical battles. It is true, most of them belong to Ancient History, i.e. Rome and Greece (although, there is a special show "Battles B.C."). But some of the episodes feature medieval battles IIRC. Anyway, it is absorbing in terms of narration (though, sometimes redundant) and picturesquein terms of graphics (the latter reminding MTW, in fact). Does anyone care about such "films"?
Indeed, that movie is superb. It's a shame it doesn't get any replay here, it's a great story and the Caine/Connery pairing was an excellent casting choice.
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