New Modder has Questions

[KukriKhan]

Copying this on behalf of new member cugel"

-------------snip--------------------
I a junior novice modder and wanted information regarding modding & what some of the code sections mean. I read Giskard's fine article explaining some of the features of modding and installed Palladin's fine 1092 mod. Thanks guys for making those materials available
Are there any other articles on what the code sections mean?
For example, I saw a post by King David in the "What is modding and how will it affect my game?" topic in the Dungeon (the one I really wanted to post to). He gives as an example adding the line:

AddTitle:: ID_KHAZAR ""Warrior Master " +6 +6 +6 0 0
I think that's a great idea After all, Subetai was probably a better general than any European of the time and it should be difficult to fight him. I am going to add this line to the startpos/early.txt file to create a greater challange from the Khan, but I wonder: what causes the Horde to appear only in 1220? IF I add this line to the addtitle section as King David suggests, will this cause the initial set-up in early to assign this title (warrior) to the general created at the beginning of the game (1087)in Khazan? That wouldn't be good. (I assume from testing that it doesn't but how does this work?)

I was also wondering what strings are called by the faction behavior? I noticed that most of the faction behaviors aren't used by the developers. For example, what does:

SetBehaviour:: FN_ALMOHAD MUSLIM_DEVOUT do?
or some of the other unused behaviors such as //ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
//ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE, //POVERTY_STRICKEN,//DESPERATE_DEFENCE,//CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT do?

I assume (without really knowing) that the Set Behavior:: FN_PAPACY POPE calls a predefined function entitled "POPE", but what is it and where is it? Is is possible to modify the Pope's behavior by changing this file? What I'd really like to be able to do is make it possible to bribe the Pope if he's excommunicated me. I don't suppose that's possible however.

Thanks guys and any help would be appreciated Modding this game really adds a lot
------------------snip------------------

[fenir]

Welcome Cugel,

I will try and answer your questions, hopefully. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Well for a start, yes there are more guides on modifications of MTW coming up.
I have started two projects,

1. Is in conjunction with Wellington. Which will be a guide to Animation and Unit modification in Medieval Total War. Which should be up in about a week. But don't quote me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Roughly 50 A4 pages on descriptions, about 240k zip size.

2. The Second is an idea I had a while back, that is, as I found out more about MTW, I would write this down and explain as much to myself, what it did and where it was.
And by default allow others to download and use if they wished.
It will hopefully include work done by others in the search for understanding each area of MTW.
This one is on going at present, and i can't see it released in the next two weeks, as it is alot of work.


startpos/early.txt
Might I suggest that you make a copy of early.txt and rename it? That way you can modify the copy, call it custom early.txt

example:Open the custom early.txt ....at the top of the page change to .......

//========================================
//campaign name: can either be text or a
//label. Set predefined accordingly
//========================================
cn_predefined::false
cn_title::"Early Custom"
cn_short_title::"Early Custom"

It will then show up in your list of early, high, late camp's. Then you can use this as a test txt or just to use the changes you make.

Faction behavior
This is only the starting (or Default setting), factional behavior of the leader, this will change as circumstances in the game change in relation to that faction.
Eg: a peaceful faction may change (maybe) to an expanisionist if attacked by other factions. ie: it depends upon other factors in the game and it's relations to other factions.
This of course is all hard coded, so we can't effect a change on this. But we can change the starting behaviour.

ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST .....Affects only Orthodox factions.
They tend to represent the factions as there fortunes change in the game, ie: as a faction is losing badly they become CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT , and maybe DESPERATE_DEFENCE all these are predefined setting which instruct the AI on how to manage the faction I suspect.

Yes pope is again a predefined setting only affecting the pope.
I suspect it is all located in hard coded tables within MTW. Something we cannot, at this stage, get at :P

Just thinking about it, I could actually release "guides on each actual txt? That is to say I could write up a guide and description of what each txt has in it and then what each does.
Post it here in parts like Wellington did, and then when finished compile it into a word document.
I will give this some more thought.

Bribing the Pope, I don't think it's possible yet, though someone may have just changed the pope to a default faction setting, that would allow it.

hope this helps

fenir

[Vlad The Impaler]

in order not starting another topic i have an question about modding .

how can i add almughavars to the spanish ? and how i can modify this troop? thanks

[KukriKhan]

Response to fenir from cugel:
-------------snip--------------
Thanks fenir for answering my questions. I would really be interested in getting a copy of your guide to the .txt files if you can do it. If you need any help with testing some mods let me know. My interest is mostly in simply modifying the faction behavior (in so far as that is possible) to make the game more interesting and realistically challenging.


Thanks for the suggestion about renaming the early.txt file to create a mod file. I think this will help keep track of changes I'm making, so that if anything blows up I'll know what to reverse

"Faction behavior. . . . This of course is all hard coded, so we can't effect a change on this. But we can change the starting behaviour. . . . all these are predefined setting which instruct the AI on how to manage the faction I suspect."

"Yes pope is again a predefined setting only affecting the pope. I suspect it is all located in hard coded tables within MTW. Something we cannot, at this stage, get at :P"

That's just what I was afraid of. What we really need is to be able to adjust the ingame faction behavior to make it more (realistically) challenging and perhaps more historically accurate as well. I don't suppose that the developers will ever take any of these files out of the hard coding?

Obviously, the reason the developers didn't do so is that most of the game buying public probably thinks this game is more than hard and complex enough already. I read an interview with a game developer (different company) who said the biggest testing flaw for developers is that they UNDERESTIMATE how difficult the game may seem to the average gamer. What I think many of us on this forum would like from the sp experience is a more realistic challenge. This is really what I'm interested in and I suspect many of you are too. I'm thinking of increasing the provincial rebellion figures in the manner suggested by Giskard (but by 1 not three to just see how it goes). Have you tried this? You shouldn't just be able to raise a large army of elites and walk across the map.

I think Giskard's idea of changing the French to Orthodox in order to make it more difficult to hold on to provinces once conquered is interesting, but I can't get past the historical anomaly

"Just thinking about it, I could actually release "guides on each actual txt? That is to say I could write up a guide and description of what each txt has in it and then what each does.
Post it here in parts like Wellington did, and then when finished compile it into a word document.
I will give this some more thought."

I personally would love to see this That's what I'm really looking for.

"Bribing the Pope, I don't think it's possible yet, though someone may have just changed the pope to a default faction setting, that would allow it."

Creating the Pope as a custom FN_MINOR and assigning Rome and the Papal States to that "Papish" faction should make him bribable, you would just have to make all the relevant entries in the .txt files, but then the Pope would play like any minor faction which causes problems in its own right (ahistorical). I wonder what effect giving the Pope Still, I might try it.
-----------snip---------------

[+DOC+]

Quote[/b] (fenir @ Nov. 24 2002,05:26)]Faction behavior
This is only the starting (or Default setting), factional behavior of the leader, this will change as circumstances in the game change in relation to that faction.
Eg: a peaceful faction may change (maybe) to an expanisionist if attacked by other factions. ie: it depends upon other factors in the game and it's relations to other factions.
This of course is all hard coded, so we can't effect a change on this. But we can change the starting behaviour.
Hi Fenir,

I understand that behaviours change to the desperate_defence and close_to_support_limit personalities when the need arrives, but i'm not sure on the rest....?

Is it indeed true that a faction's behaviour can change from say catholic_expansionist to catholic_naval_expansionist as the game develops? I know this happened in STW as new Daimyos came to the throne, but i thought that these basic traits remained constant with each faction throughout in MTW?

How do you know otherwise?

Cheers

[fenir]

Cugel

Hello again Cugel, If you wanted to start actually changing your game, there are perhaps a few things I would recommend.

I myself installed the game twice.
Once to my H: drive, and again to my J: Drive. I know several other modders who do the same...*looks at LK* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

My H: drive is the one I use for modding and testing.

J: is for playing the game, and adding parts that I know work and have tested. Eg: I now have the following factions and units working fully. (Note; this will eventually be released as a complete mod extenision).

Early Period Factions,
ALL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Only unplayable is the pope. eg: 16 playable factions in my main game.

All footknights enable.
Africa Enable.
more Iron provinces.
More trade goods.
lots really.
Now doing speicfic units for factions, like the Byzantines and Egyptians. So people can individually identify with there faction easier.

Anyway, modding,
I would suggest saving the following files in a folder titled "Originals" and I put it in the "Total War" Folder.
Put them In the game you play, not the one you test. Though it can be the same game, it really doesn't matter, as you can then delete the file that went wrong, and replace it with the one you should have saved before changing anything. Then try again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Medieval Total War/crusaders_unit_prod11
Battle/UnitIcons
Camp/Startpos
Camp/Info_pics
Camp/review_panel
Loc/Eng
Textures/Men

Then do the same to the test game, as each upgrade or mod you do, save those files again when you know they work, in another folder called "Mod_Originals". Place the folder in Total war.

That way you have both the original game files, and your working mod files, you can then enter or delete depending on what you want to play or change. ( I also make my orginals read only.)

Then Download Bifreader 2.1 from the .org download area.
And also Ultimate paint. Ultimate paint is for the lbm files and Bif reader 2.1 is well... for bif files. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Once you have done that? Start playing around.

If I remember correctly there is a enable pope playable mod on the .org download list.


I had a think about writing a list of what each files does, and what you can change. I think I will start to give it a go this coming weekend, so it maybe posted here on Sunday night my time, which is Saturday night .org time.
I will start with the Startpos files. As they are the easiest.


I think Giskard's idea of changing the French to Orthodox in order to make it more difficult to hold on to provinces once conquered is interesting, but I can't get past the historical anomaly

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif yeah me neither.

That's just what I was afraid of. What we really need is to be able to adjust the ingame faction behavior to make it more (realistically) challenging and perhaps more historically accurate as well. I don't suppose that the developers will ever take any of these files out of the hard coding?

I doubt it, that would allow some other horrible MS type company to steal their game, not something I would like either.

The pope, try this, startpos/early.txt
SetActiveFaction:: FN_PAPIST FT_MAJOR

SetBehaviour:: FN_PAPIST CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST

that might work. enter game. back up before changing

so sp experience is a more realistic challenge
Yes, but it is very hard for a game to capture this realistically. Remember it's just code.
All that said, we can still change a lot.

biggest testing flaw for developers is that they UNDERESTIMATE how difficult the game may seem to the average gamer
I find the game nice and relaxing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Only ever played expert mode.

If you do have any questions, just post and I will do my best to answer them in the mean time, or someone else may answer them for you.


+Doc+
Hello Doc, yes they do change sometimes with each heir's ascendancy, and with game interaction.
That is why MTW doesn't replay the same way each time. In STW it wasn't so noticeable, but In MTW it is very noticeable.

How they change example:
Say we have a peaceful Almohad faction, if the Almohads see a province next to it, they will evaluate the earnings of the province, and the strenght of the enemy units within it. And then it's own comparitible strenght. And I think the provinces loyalty.
If the AI thinks the circumstances are correct...The Almohads will change to an expanisionist faction and attack that province.
This is also tied up in the V&V of the leaders and heirs.

The only thing I am not sure about, and I am quite confident that it doesn't, is take into account the trade factor.
I wish that Factions would take trade into account more often, and the losses that can/will happen when war occurs.


Perhaps Gil can shed some more light on this, he would have a better understanding of it's more complete workings.

Vlad
Save crusaders_unit_prod11 (backup)
Open crusaders_unit_prod11 in notepad.

CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(72)" {SPEARMAKER2} WEAK -2
Ok open your Crusaders_unit_prod11
ctrl+F type in Almughavars, find it? ok now move the word Almughavars up to the top of the page, so you can follow it along the line with out losing your place.

Find the word "Weak"..... When you do, click on notepad between the "W" and the "e"....now use your arrow keys

[+DOC+]

fenir,

Thanks for your response. I would really like to know the official answer on whether the faction's personalities change like you've suggested they do. I don't doubt that they change to the close_to_support_limit and desperate_defence personalities when the situation arises, but i am unconvinced that the main starting personality changes to another main one?

Still, i know this did happen in STW when an heir came to the throne and that's why it's definitely a possibility The reason why i'm sceptical is because it would make very little sense for the English or Italians to become anything other than Trader nations?

Cheers