Obama Extends Patriot Act [Archive]

Strike For The South

03-01-2010, 07:19

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a completely inoffensive name

03-01-2010, 07:39

Conservatives are gonna perform another mental disconnect from reality and complain that he is once again infringing on our right to privacy with his liberal, socialist ideology.

Fragony

03-01-2010, 08:10

I soooo want to rub this in the face of the Obamaniacs but they are united in absolute silence. I guess we will have to wait for the messias for a little longer. That's what you get when you judge someone only on the color of his skin.

muahahaha nobel price for peace biggest joke ever

Meneldil

03-01-2010, 08:36

Dear SFTS, would you mind doing your work properly and providing us with a link?

Furunculus

03-01-2010, 08:49

noooooooooooo! saint obama would never do this, it must be a fascist neo-con plot................. *looks suspiciously in rumsfelds direction*

Fisherking

03-01-2010, 10:31

:dizzy2:

Bush did it now Obama did it...

Does this mean that two wrongs do make a right?:sick:

I can hardly wait to hear how it became a good thing...

:laugh4:

naut

03-01-2010, 10:45

I guess the only change is the change of slogan now:

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Major Robert Dump

03-01-2010, 10:54

Did he promise at any point to revoke it or let it lapse? I honestly don't know the answer, pls someone do tell

Also, the Patriot Act was one of those things that extended massive power to the federal government that is hard, very hard, to take away once enacted. No one wants to take it away because then any ill that befalls the nation will be the sole fault of the man who made the law go away (whether it really was, or not). Nobody wants to be "that guy." Just like once government healthcare is enacted it will be permanent because no one will want to be "that guy."

CountArach

03-01-2010, 12:28

Did he promise at any point to revoke it or let it lapse? I honestly don't know the answer, pls someone do tell
Obama has always supported a Patriot Act, but one that strengthens civil liberties to some extent. I believe he is largely satisfied with the current bill, which contains some extra provisions (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sunsetting-provisions-patriot-act-revives-privacy-debate/story?id=9173895&page=1) for defending civil liberties [NOTE: Better =/= good, the bill is still awful].

Obama's own view, as far as it can be discerned, from 2008, can be found here:
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obamas_consistent_p_1.php

Louis VI the Fat

03-01-2010, 13:06

Change does not imply a full and complete overhaul, a brave new world.

Change, especially prudent change, is taking a supertanker and slightly changing its course by a few degrees. Which in the long term takes it to a completely different destination.

Me I understand the people who thought Obama was the Messiah, and I understand the people who claim he isn't delivering anything: I understand both are based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the realm of the possible, and what is telling of a prudent understanding of this reality. (Prudence, moderation, a sober reflective style - one would almost forget all the other promises of Obama on which he is delivering)

To which I should add, I thought Obama was changing America into a Marxist dictatorship, by rapidly destroying its fundamental principles. Apparantly, in a single breath, he is also criticised for not delivering any change.

Lemur

03-01-2010, 15:42

Thus we demonstrate the reason you should never, ever hand the Executive branch a pile of unsupervised powers. They never want to give them back. Kinda like giving senior citizens new entitlements that way.

I have no sympathy for the Obamaniacs who didn't see this coming, and even less for the gloating conservatives who helped this happen in the first place.

Fisherking

03-01-2010, 15:45

Thus we demonstrate the reason you should never, ever hand the Executive branch a pile of unsupervised powers. They never want to give them back. Kinda like giving senior citizens new entitlements that way.

I have no sympathy for the Obamaniacs who didn't see this coming, and even less for the gloating conservatives who helped this happen in the first place.

OMG!

We are in perfect agreement!

Mark it on the calendar!
:laugh4:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-01-2010, 15:58

Three sections of the Patriot Act that stay in force will:

* Authorize court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones.

* Allow court-approved seizure of records and property in anti-terrorism operations.

* Permit surveillance against a so-called lone wolf, a non-U.S. citizen engaged in terrorism who may not be part of a recognized terrorist group.

Obama's signature comes after the House voted 315 to 97 Thursday to extend the measure.

The Senate also approved the measure, with privacy protections cast aside when Senate Democrats lacked the necessary 60-vote supermajority to pass them. Thrown away were restrictions and greater scrutiny of the government's authority to spy on Americans and seize their records.

No sympathy for the ScottBrownManiacs.

Beskar

03-01-2010, 16:38

Anyone who supports Republican cannot criticise Obama. Only Democrats. Since you know, the whole idea was the Republicans anyway.

Fisherking

03-01-2010, 17:01

:strawman2:

Ridiculous!

I am sure a lot of Republicans detested what was done.

Besides, if the Democrats do it, dose that make it right?

:dizzy2:

Furunculus

03-01-2010, 17:46

Anyone who supports Republican cannot criticise Obama. Only Democrats. Since you know, the whole idea was the Republicans anyway.

no, but we can extract vast quantities of urine from those who used the patriot act among others things to justify bushes evilness, and promote obama's saint'liness.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-01-2010, 17:54

no, but we can extract vast quantities of urine from those who used the patriot act among others things to justify bushes evilness, and promote obama's saint'liness.

You could, if you felt like ignoring the differences between the original patriot act, the changed version from 2005, and the selected provisions that have been extended by Obama. The only reason extra civil liberties provisions weren't added is because the senate lacked the 60 seat supermajority.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

03-01-2010, 20:16

You could, if you felt like ignoring the differences between the original patriot act, the changed version from 2005, and the selected provisions that have been extended by Obama. The only reason extra civil liberties provisions weren't added is because the senate lacked the 60 seat supermajority.

This "super majority" thing has been lambasted quite a bit, you know. The Daily Show litterally won't shut up about it.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-01-2010, 20:26

This "super majority" thing has been lambasted quite a bit, you know. The Daily Show litterally won't shut up about it.

I don't watch the daily show...in any case, one doesn't blame Obama for the senate's ineptitude, does one?

Why has the 60 senator thing been lambasted?

Beskar

03-01-2010, 20:28

no, but we can extract vast quantities of urine from those who used the patriot act among others things to justify bushes evilness, and promote obama's saint'liness.

That is true. But I meant my comment more of a "Republicans cannot use something they passed to make some one look worse than them" sort of way. Since things are very partisan in the former British colony.

gaelic cowboy

03-01-2010, 20:37

To which I should add, I thought Obama was changing America into a Marxist dictatorship, by rapidly destroying its fundamental principles. Apparantly, in a single breath, he is also criticised for not delivering any change.

:laugh4: good one

Sasaki Kojiro

03-01-2010, 20:51

Basically this thread has nothing to do with obama, it's about the idealistic 18-22 year olds that supported him, and really what's going on in the world when 18 year olds are idealistic?

I don't remember it being a common view that people who voted Bush were naive because they thought he would cut spending. How about the people who thought McCain would get rid of abortion? Every politician claims they are going to do certain things, and people believe them/act like they believe them as part of the election fervor.

It seems like a symptom of Obama's popularity, some people need the only reason he was elected to be the support of a crazed, naive group of people. Rather than compare him to other politicians, they compare him to the supposed ideal that some of his supporters held him too. Isn't that simple. :juggle2:

In doing so of course, they are taking political propaganda hook, line, and sinker while being pleased that they aren't as naive as those folks :book:

Centurion1

03-01-2010, 23:45

hes a politician like everyone else. anyone who thinks hes any better is an imbecile.

Aemilius Paulus

03-01-2010, 23:49

I am sure a lot of Republicans detested what was done.

Surprisingly enough, the GOP are no less of hypocrites than any other party in the world, including the Dems. You'd think the people who do not trust the gov't to spend money on trash collection would recoil from the very idea of the same government having such wide-ranging powers, but no... Especially the part about all but legally suspending the writ of habeas corpus in regards to suspected terrorists. I mean, obviously a government which can lock you up and throw the key away cannot be trusted with some tax dollars, why do you even ask?

This bothers me. Republicans pitch their libertarian ideals but everyone knows neo-cons have shifted towards the authoritarian spectrum in such matters :shrug:. At least they could be more frank about it - that I can respect, even if the views are different from mine.

Centurion1

03-01-2010, 23:53

nothing wrong with a little central authority in some cases.

though i dont really like the patriot act to be honest.

Aemilius Paulus

03-02-2010, 00:20

nothing wrong with a little central authority in some cases.
Yep, my point exactly.

though i dont really like the patriot act to be honest.
No self-respecting American should. Americans love nothing more than to speak of their freedoms, no matter how trivial they may seem to foreigners hailing from more authoritarian lands. But Americans earned the right. But when one supports the Patriot act and at the same time continue extolling the virtues of American freedoms - well, they threaten to rival Aeschines in his namesake act.

Askthepizzaguy

03-02-2010, 00:53

Basically this thread has nothing to do with obama, it's about the idealistic 18-22 year olds that supported him, and really what's going on in the world when 18 year olds are idealistic?

I don't remember it being a common view that people who voted Bush were naive because they thought he would cut spending. How about the people who thought McCain would get rid of abortion? Every politician claims they are going to do certain things, and people believe them/act like they believe them as part of the election fervor.

It seems like a symptom of Obama's popularity, some people need the only reason he was elected to be the support of a crazed, naive group of people. Rather than compare him to other politicians, they compare him to the supposed ideal that some of his supporters held him too. Isn't that simple. :juggle2:

In doing so of course, they are taking political propaganda hook, line, and sinker while being pleased that they aren't as naive as those folks :book:

But Sasaki, that's not nearly sensational enough. It's too rational and even-handed. Where's the clear painting of someone as the enemy? Where's the obvious straw man, the scapegoating? Where's the implied hypocrisy? Where's the partisanship?

I prefer to be told what I already think. It's the new American way.

Aemilius Paulus

03-02-2010, 00:58

Yeah, but you gotta give the Republicans the credit for so generously and selflessly cooperating with Obama, eh?

Kinda hard to pass something when the other half just had their vocabulary magically reduced to a single, two-letter word...

Strike For The South

03-02-2010, 01:40

Basically this thread has nothing to do with obama, it's about the idealistic 18-22 year olds that supported him, and really what's going on in the world when 18 year olds are idealistic?

I don't remember it being a common view that people who voted Bush were naive because they thought he would cut spending. How about the people who thought McCain would get rid of abortion? Every politician claims they are going to do certain things, and people believe them/act like they believe them as part of the election fervor.

It seems like a symptom of Obama's popularity, some people need the only reason he was elected to be the support of a crazed, naive group of people. Rather than compare him to other politicians, they compare him to the supposed ideal that some of his supporters held him too. Isn't that simple. :juggle2:

In doing so of course, they are taking political propaganda hook, line, and sinker while being pleased that they aren't as naive as those folks :book:

You're just a republican plant to undermine our leader.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-02-2010, 02:13

hes a politician like everyone else. anyone who thinks hes any better is an imbecile.

But that's hardly the question is it? The question is "is he a better politician than the other politician".

You don't respond to a claim that Peyton Manning* has mystical powers by saying that "he's a quarterback just like all the rest".

But Sasaki, that's not nearly sensational enough. It's too rational and even-handed. Where's the clear painting of someone as the enemy? Where's the obvious straw man, the scapegoating? Where's the implied hypocrisy? Where's the partisanship?

I prefer to be told what I already think. It's the new American way.

No no, people hate sensationalist news like they have on Fox. They love to be rational and even handed, see thread for evidence.

*Not that Obama is the best president in history, that certainly isn't known at this time.

PanzerJaeger

03-02-2010, 02:33

This is an interesting thread. When the Patriot Act was implemented, there was very little discussion of a leader making a difficult, reasoned decision between two competing yet vital presidential prerogatives, ensuring both the constitutional freedoms and the security of the American people, in the wake of the most destructive terrorist attack this nation has ever endured. It was just the evil genius, Bush, being evil. (As opposed to his alter-ego: stupid, incompetent Bush.) There was little mention of the revisions in 2005, just year after year of evil-ness and the destruction of the foundation of American freedoms.

Now that Obama has extended it, its all just political reality. No president gives up power. No one should have really expected anything important to change. In fact, the definition of change itself is subjective. Only idiots and ideologues could expect Obama to actually change something that was a central Democratic rallying cry for 7+ years. And it was actually the Republicans fault that he signed the legislation...

The reality is that standing in the periphery and criticizing is far different than actually leading. Now that Obama is getting the daily NSA/CIA briefings, I'm sure his opinion has changed considerably on the threat from Islamic terrorism. Not to mention the fact that Obama has been backed into such a corner over the Christmas Day bombing attempt and his signature legislation's drag on his and his party's popularity that they sacrificed their ideals to escape another political firestorm.

Aemilius Paulus

03-02-2010, 02:40

Now that Obama has extended it, its all just political reality. No president gives up power. No one should have really expected anything important to change. In fact, the definition of change itself is subjective. Only idiots and ideologues could expect Obama to actually change something that was a central Democratic rallying cry for 7+ years. And it was actually the Republicans fault that he signed the legislation...

The reality is that standing in the periphery and criticizing is far different than actually leading. Now that Obama is getting the daily NSA/CIA briefings, I'm sure his opinion has changed considerably. Not to mention the fact that Obama has been backed into such a corner over the Christmas Day bombing attempt and his signature legislations drag on his and his party's popularity that they sacrificed their ideals to escape another political firestorm.
Yes, how disappointing, but how insightfully true. Excellent analysis :bow:

a completely inoffensive name

03-02-2010, 05:27

I dont see how this is bad. America is under siege from within and without. The progressives and socialists and communists are sweeping in with the support of the islamic fascists to undermine true American values that originated from the christian bible. Dont believe me? Learn about how evil progressivism has been creeping into the country since the turn of the century at your local library. We need less civil liberties and more patriotism right now.

Major Robert Dump

03-02-2010, 10:49

Without civil liberties I refuse to be a patriot. Refuse. I would also refuse to serve in the armed forces.

If I wanted to live in a police state where might triumphed right then I can think of plenty of countries with a much lower tax rate than this one.