View Full Version : Mini Mafia Game Departed Dethy Mafia II [Concluded]
Captain Blackadder
03-05-2010, 02:46
5 man game 1 mafia 4 cops
all the standard rules
24 hours Day
24 Hours Night
Voting No lynch is allowed
No revealing investigation results upon death.
You must wait untill the end of any night sequance to reveal and results you may have
If you have any questions about Dethy Mafia just P.M me
Years ago, a powerful Irish mafia figure placed a small selection of his youngest, brightest men into the Massachusetts State Police Academy as cadets. Their purpose is to eventually rise within the prestigious ranks of the state police department, to serve as the eyes and ears of their boss. While somewhere else, a young cadet was assigned with an equally dangerous task: infiltrate the Irish syndicate headed by the man sending in his own to the Massachusetts State Police. Now, one cadet is an up and coming police official with a torn allegiance to his job and to the criminal mastermind that put him there. With Frank Costello about to be arreasted one thing needs to be done before the case can proceed. They need to find the rat in the organisation and destroy him
Sign Ups
5/5
Johnhughthom
Secura
Double A
Saskai
Methos
johnhughthom
03-05-2010, 02:47
Yep.
Double A
03-05-2010, 02:55
Wort wort! Wort wort wort! WOOOORT!
Elite to English translator:
Holy crap! Another Dethy Mafia! IIIIIIIIIIN!
johnhughthom
03-05-2010, 03:06
Please don't be using any codewords in your game CB, somebody here has a slight problem with them. :wink:
Double A
03-05-2010, 03:23
Oh shut up, baldy.
johnhughthom
03-05-2010, 03:32
Oh shut up, baldy.
Just since you made me smile with that highly intelligent rejoinder I promise never to mention it again.
And I'll stop spamming your sign ups CB. Two more please. Not you Naughty Beskie, I don't like you anymore.
Double A
03-05-2010, 03:33
Just since you made me smile with that highly intelligent rejoinder I promise never to mention it again.
And I'll stop spamming your sign ups CB. Two more please. Not you Naughty Beskie, I don't like you anymore.
Thank you, come again.
Not you Naughty Beskie, I don't like you anymore.
If it's the Beskie I know, that will only make him wanna sign up to irk you. :P
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 07:02
In.
Even worse, you got my former Mafia tutor instead. Sensei Sasaki.
Though he isn't happy I swapped him with Sensei AskthePizzaGuy, tainting his teachings with cheese.
johnhughthom
03-05-2010, 11:42
Even worse, you got my former Mafia tutor instead. Sensei Sasaki.
Any game with Sasaki is a privilige to play.
Captain Blackadder
03-05-2010, 11:59
Role Pm's sent let the games begin
Day 1 Begins
Greyblades
03-05-2010, 12:08
Ah I remember this game if I remember correctly we won on the first turn by lynching the least active player. I hope that the mafia in this one will be less obvious.
So we're in Day Phase now then? I suppose I will get the ball rolling then.
I think it's worth taking a look at this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?116844-Dethy-Mafia-Mini-Game&p=2233901&viewfull=1#post2233901) from the last game. If we advocate a lynch on this round, we have a 25% chance of getting the mafia. The odds are slightly better than a seven-man, at least.
Alternatively, we could vote no lynch and use the explanation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?116844-Dethy-Mafia-Mini-Game&p=2235922&viewfull=1#post2235922) that the host provided in the previous game, which would see an investigation cycle a la:
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
Naturally, all investigation results would be shared publicly so we can figure out who is which type of cop and such. By Day Three, there would only be two of us left against the scum, but we'd have enough evidence to take them down.
I'd like to see what ideas the rest of you have, but I'm leaning slightly more towards the latter option at the moment; it means we get a little more information to work with. :3
Having evaluated the pros and cons of each option, I have decided to vote: no lynch this round.
If we lynch, we do have a small chance of finding the killer; if we do, we win, if we do not, we've essentially gambled and lost. In Day Two, we would have three pieces of investigation results to work from, with one being faked by the mafia. It would be difficult to work out who is who from two legitimate results.
If we do not lynch, we will have four pieces of results on Day Two, and three more on Day Three, resulting in seven total, two of which are faked. This means that on Day Three, there will be five legitimate results that should help the two remaining townies to work out their roles and who the scum is.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 16:04
Secura is the mafia.
Vote:Secura
I suspected that someone would jump such a foolish conclusion; I hadn't thought that it would be you, Sasaki, of all people.
What is your reasoning behind such a vote? To me, it seems like a scummy attempt to kill someone who's utilising their brain to figure things out. There's no better option this round but to vote for no lynch. You're effectively killing the town's ability to win by doing so... so why would you do that?
I can assure you that I am a simply cop, though I don't believe that will sway you.
Allow me to clarify; if you mistakenly lynch in this phase, you're going into the next day phase with only three people remaining and minimal investigation results to deduce who is the true murderer. How're you going to deduce who is actually the mafia when you've got paranoid/trusting/backwards/whatever results to decipher as well as the fact that one of those pieces is actually fake?
Lynching me, a cop, will result in a town loss. If that's what you want, cool beans, vote Secura by all means. But if you'd like an actual chance at town victory, vote for no lynch, so that we can go into the next day phase with four players intact and the maximum amount of investigation results.
That's the be-all, end-all of it. It's your choices now, boys.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 16:46
I suspected that someone would jump such a foolish conclusion;I hadn't thought that it would be you, Sasaki, of all people.
Why did you think people would jump to the conclusion that you were mafia?
What is your reasoning behind such a vote? To me, it seems like a scummy attempt to kill someone who's utilising their brain to figure things out.
You suspected that people might jump to conclusions, so you must have some suspicion of what my reasoning is, yes?
You say I am scummy, but in your first sentence you chided me for playing poorly as a townie and jumping to conclusions. You were describing me as town, now you claim I am scummy.
There's no better option this round but to vote for no lynch. You're effectively killing the town's ability to win by doing so... so why would you do that?
See, you aren't utilizing your brain to come up with a new strategy, you are just copying what CB said from the last game. Why do you think each person investigating someone to their left is the best strategy?
With two lynches, we have a 53% chance at finding mafia (assuming we lynch randomly instead of lynching scummy people!). With one with have a 33% chance, and less in thread info. The 4 extra investigations have to make up the difference. One strategy is not vastly superior to the other, especially if someone in the the thread seems very suspicious.
I can assure you that I am a simply cop, though I don't believe that will sway you.
This implies that you think I'm town.
In summary:
Secura thought people would find her posts suspect--mafia tell
She jumped right in with a bunch of townie strategy talk, but it looks more like an attempt to convince us that she herself is pro town.
She alternates between blatantly assuming I am town, to trying and discredit my argument by saying it is scummy
She sounds like mafia
Why did you think people would jump to the conclusion that you were mafia?
You suspected that people might jump to conclusions, so you must have some suspicion of what my reasoning is, yes?
I see your reasoning, yes. I believed someone would jump upon what I had written because this is such a small game, whereby the slightest mistake is likely to cost the town the game. If people see something slightly scummy, well they're going to bring it to task.
You say I am scummy, but in your first sentence you chided me for playing poorly as a townie and jumping to conclusions. You were describing me as town, now you claim I am scummy.
This implies that you think I'm town.
Actually, I never suggested you were town; it was a general address to all four of you. I don't really see any evidence to suggest you're scum or not. I also wasn't chiding you, I was simply hoping that you would see the post for what it was; an explanation of the game based upon the previous rendition, nothing more.
See, you aren't utilizing your brain to come up with a new strategy, you are just copying what CB said from the last game. Why do you think each person investigating someone to their left is the best strategy?
With two lynches, we have a 53% chance at finding mafia (assuming we lynch randomly instead of lynching scummy people!). With one with have a 33% chance, and less in thread info. The 4 extra investigations have to make up the difference. One strategy is not vastly superior to the other, especially if someone in the the thread seems very suspicious.
I concede that the ideas were not actually mine. To be honest, you could investigate anyone, but if we ensured each person had been investigated that night, then surely we would have a better idea of the game rather than everyone investigating as they saw fit and Blackadder ending up with four people investigating you, for example.
If you lynch me, which isn't going to end the game by the way, then you're left with three people in Day Two. How are you going to win at that point?
Secura thought people would find her posts suspect--mafia tell
Who wouldn't in a game this size? There's so few of us, I'd be going over everything with a fine toothcomb.
She jumped right in with a bunch of townie strategy talk, but it looks more like an attempt to convince us that she herself is pro town.
It's simply me hoping to win the game as town.
She alternates between blatantly assuming I am town, to trying and discredit my argument by saying it is scummy
Again, it was a general address to the four of you, not solely to Sasaki. I found what you said scummy because you were trying to call me out for, quite frankly, flip all.
She sounds like mafia
And then I can laugh when everyone leaps onto another Sasaki bandwagon and it transpires that you're incorrect, right?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 17:36
unvote:Secura, fos: Secura
It does seem a shame not to use the mechanic. We could use each day as if we were going to lynch someone, and then go for no lynch and do the investigation thing. That gives us a fallback in case the investigation results are inconclusive.
It might be the best strategy to have 3 people investigate secura tonight, and two people investigate me. Or someone else. Is it allowed to coordinate out of thread?
But I don't see how that plan works out really. One cop is killed, and one cop gets no results because his target was killed (if the mafia doesn't kill the person they were supposed to investigate). That means we just have two results going into day 2. Then the mafia can kill one of the people who got a result, that leaves only one person with two results.
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
For example, let's say that secura is mafia. She kills me tonight, so I get no results, and methos gets no results. John and hugh are the only ones with real results. Then secura kills john, so he gets no results and methos gets no results. In endgame, secura has fake results on Double A and methos, methos has no results, and Double A has a result on john and a result on secura. If he got innocent on john and guilty on secura, then we know she's guilty. If he got innocent on both, then methos could be guilty or john could be naive. If he got guilty on john and innocent on secura, then he's insane and secura is guilty. Guilty on both and he's paranoid.
But I think secura can fake the same results just as easily. In which case it ends up being a coinflip between the two of them, right? Are roles revealed upon death?
Compare that to the scenario where we lynch today, which has a higher base percentage.
Though the argument is already very interesting, might as well give Secura a little more leverage. Vote: Sasaki Kojiro.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 17:42
Though the argument is already very interesting, might as well give Secura a little more leverage. Vote: Sasaki Kojiro.
What's very interesting about the argument?
unvote:Secura, fos: Secura
I can live with that, because I can understand why I might seem suspect. You're still barking up the wrong tree, but it's a start I guess.
It might be the best strategy to have 3 people investigate secura tonight, and two people investigate me. Or someone else. Is it allowed to coordinate out of thread?
I wholeheartedly advocate this. Three people wasting their investigations on me isn't going to help the town one iota, but if it proves my innocence, go for it. Of course, one of the people who investigates me could be the mafia, and they could just as easily fabricate the results to make me seem more culpable.
But I think secura can fake the same results just as easily. In which case it ends up being a coinflip between the two of them, right? Are roles revealed upon death?
I'm flattered that you're so fixated upon me being scum that you haven't (if you are even town yourself) considered the fact that Methos, JHT or Double A could be scum instead. I'd like to be credited with a small amount of intellect that I wouldn't be so stupid as to bring so much attention to myself if I was the mafia.
I assume by 'roles' you mean whether the dead person was paranoid, backwards or whatnot? I'd hazard a guess at that sort of information being revealed if the player was lynched, but perhaps not if they were murdered. Dunno, though.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 17:51
I'd have to think about it more, but I'm not sure the investigation plan gives us better than 50/50 odds. The mole can just counterclaim one of the real cops. Unless there's some way that we can conclude it's them by forcing them to claim their results first.
Actually I was approaching it as if the everyone claimed both of their results in the endgame. But they have to claim one result the day before.
It seems like the best plan is to no lynch, and force the scummiest people to claim their results first. It still might not be better than straight up lynching though.
What's very interesting about the argument?
Are you saying your participating in an argument that you don't find interesting?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-05-2010, 17:53
Are you saying your participating in an argument that you don't find interesting?
No. What do you find interesting about the argument?
unvote:Secura, fos: Secura
What is FOS?
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro.
I appreciate this vote, thank you. However, the reason I haven't turned around with an OMGUS vote on Sasaki is because I don't feel lynching is the best course of action at this moment in time, so I'm still going to advocate no lynch for the time being. :3
I'd have to think about it more, but I'm not sure the investigation plan gives us better than 50/50 odds. The mole can just counterclaim one of the real cops. Unless there's some way that we can conclude it's them by forcing them to claim their results first.
Actually I was approaching it as if the everyone claimed both of their results in the endgame. But they have to claim one result the day before.
It seems like the best plan is to no lynch, and force the scummiest people to claim their results first. It still might not be better than straight up lynching though.
I've been wracking my head over it all morning and afternoon, and I haven't really thought of a better option. I'd rather we go into Day Two with four people than three.
What is FOS?
Finger of suspicion.
It means that he isn't voting for me, but wants the three of you to know that he finds my words and actions suspect.
I appreciate this vote, thank you. However, the reason I haven't turned around with an OMGUS vote on Sasaki is because I don't feel lynching is the best course of action at this moment in time, so I'm still going to advocate no lynch for the time being. :3
My vote against Sasake was merely to remove some of his advantage. I wanted to hear from Sasaki without his having the benefit of no pressure.
Getting ready for work, so Unvote: Sasaki.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 00:50
Vote: No lynch
Based on the assumption that there's not going to be a lynch, who is going to investigate whom for the Night Phase?
Are we going to use the structure that was suggested in the previous game, or are we following Sasaki's "three people investigate Secura"? I'll go along with either, but I wouldn't commit to putting all our eggs into one basket; what would we do if three people committed to investigating me overnight and I was night-killed? :/
Probably not needed, but to remind people what a Dethy game is.
- 1 Mafia/Killer
- 1 Detective who gets innocent always.
- 1 Detective who gets guilty always.
- 1 Detective who is correct.
- 1 Detective who is always wrong.
Captain Blackadder
03-06-2010, 13:29
Votes
No Lynch 2 Secura, JohnHughthom
https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8260/departed.png (https://img32.imageshack.us/i/departed.png/)
As the Members of the State Police gather together to see who the Mole is they are met by Captain Elerby he asks them "Have yous found the mole? Or are you just hanging around in dungerees all day drinking tonic? When you get home give my best regahds to your wives since the only way you will see them again is if you find the mole. So whatcha doing about it?"
They reply "Further investigation is required"
WIth this Elerby seems satisfied and leaves the room leaving the cops to their business to find the mole.
Begin Night One
How about we just go off the sign up list. Everyone investigate the person below them and the bottom person investigate the person at the top of the list.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 16:33
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
Let's go with this one.
It's a pity john just showed up with a vote and double a didn't show up at all.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 16:36
Tomorrow we should announce our results in a particular order. It might be important to make the mafia claim a result before they know what the others got. Let's do it like this:
secura
sasaki
john
methos
double A
Double A is ironically the least suspicious due to not posting at all :beam:
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 16:42
It's a pity john just showed up with a vote
There wasn't much else to be said. :shrug:
I suggest everybody just tells us whether they are in that picture in the write up. I'm not.
That looks like Alec Baldwin in The Departed, though I don't see the character I'm playing as.
I'm playing as an officer who looks like Sean Kingston though, apparantly he's only a minor role. >.<
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:06
but I couldn't name the show
You haven't seen The Departed? Great movie. I expected to hate it, Matt Damon, Leo DiCaprio and Jack Nicholson? I usually hate anything they are in, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. If you had have told me before watching The Departed I would feel sad at Leo DiCaprio being killed in a movie I would have laughed at you.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:06
There wasn't much else to be said. :shrug:
Why does everyone have to be suspicious? The best way to find mafia is by process of elimination, especially in a 5 player game.
I suggest everybody just tells us whether they are in that picture in the write up. I'm not.
Yeah, I'm there. I'm the guy on the left near the front with the coffee mug in front of me.
That looks like Alec Baldwin, but I couldn't name the show; my character is not there though.
I'm playing as an officer who looks like Sean Kingston though. ¬_¬
It's from the movie "the departed".
Are you that guy from "cop out"??
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:12
Yeah, I'm there. I'm the guy on the left near the front with the coffee mug in front of me.
Are you claiming Matt Damon, who I expect will be the mafia?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:13
Are you claiming Matt Damon, who I expect will be the mafia?
What do you think?
You haven't seen The Departed? Great movie.
Yes, I haven't seen it before, although I remember my father saying it was a fantastic film and DiCaprio's best. I realised shortly after my post that the screenshot featured Baldwin and Damon, Wikipedia'd them both and saw The Departed, majorly headdesked.
Having checked the cast list for The Departed, I'm certainly in there, I just don't see him sat at the table in the screenshot. I guess I'm a bit-part character. :3
Are you claiming Matt Damon, who I expect will be the mafia?
He could be claiming the guy sat to Damon's right, who has a white mug in front of him. :3
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:17
I totally didn't see that white mug.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:21
It appears to me Sasaki and Secura are trying to claim the same role.
It appears to me Sasaki and Secura are trying to claim the same role.
We are?
The character I am has darker skin than that, and doesn't look like the type who wears such formal attire. :3
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:24
Actually I think Sasaki is indulging in some WIFOM...
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:25
Actually I think Sasaki is indulging in some WIFOM...
I only do that when I'm mafia.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:41
How I expect the roles would be set:
Sullivan(Matt Damon): Scum - Sasaki?
Costigan(DiCaprio): Paranoid - c'est moi
Brown(Anthony Anderson): Naive - Secura?
Dignam(Wahlberg): Insane
Queenam(Sheen): Normal
Thoughts?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:45
How I expect the roles would be set:
Sullivan(Matt Damon): Scum - Sasaki?
Costigan(DiCaprio): Paranoid - c'est moi
Brown(Anthony Anderson): Naive - Secura?
Dignam(Wahlberg): Insane
Queenam(Sheen): Normal
Thoughts?
That would make sense, but CB already said the roles don't give away your type.
-edit-
No it doesn't look like he has. That's interesting. Just in case, it seems better not to reveal our character until tomorrow or the next day.
How I expect the roles would be set:
Sullivan(Matt Damon): Scum - Sasaki?
Costigan(DiCaprio): Paranoid - c'est moi
Brown(Anthony Anderson): Naive - Secura?
Dignam(Wahlberg): Insane
Queenam(Sheen): Normal
Thoughts?
Sweet child of mine... you figured my role out! o_o
How do you know that my cop's the naive one though and not paranoid, insane or normal? Are the characters like that in the film?
Also, I realise that I have just revealed my role, but considering I've been labelled as the most suspicious one here, it doesn't really matter to me; I'm Officer Brown, and seem to have a snappy taste in leather jackets.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 17:51
Are the characters like that in the film?
Yeah, just going by personalities in the film. It would be nice to hear from the other two players.:juggle2:
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 17:56
However, as I said, it is better not to reveal the character. I don't know if queenan would be normal, but wahlburg would probably be the insane cop. The normal and insane cops are the only ones who can actually get legitimate results. The mafia will try and kill them if they can.
Double A
03-06-2010, 18:26
Sorry, I was sick yesterday, and on top of that I didn't know where my Mac was, and my PC has been infected with the XP 2010 security virus (read: a real pain in the :furious3:)
So... who should I investigate? There's like 3 different proposed plans.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 18:36
It might be the best strategy to have 3 people investigate secura tonight, and two people investigate me.
I suggest we do this, except three investigate Sasaki and two Secura.
johnhughthom, Double A and Secura investigate Sasaki.
Sasaki and Methos investigate Secura.
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
This is the plan we're going for, Double A. So you'll be investigating JHT and will be investigated by me. :3
I suggest we do this, except three investigate Sasaki and two Secura.
johnhughthom, Double A and Secura investigate Sasaki.
Sasaki and Methos investigate Secura.
Actually, I'm fine with this; it'll help us figure out who is which kind of detective better. I don't mind three people investigating me if that's what the rest of you want.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 19:41
No, let's do the first plan. The important thing is for everyone to get results on two different people. Just having a bunch of results on one person doesn't do much.
Secura is obviously mafia, did I mention that? But let's the do this one:
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
Secura is obviously mafia, did I mention that?
Your insistence upon this is going to make you look extremely foolish when it transpires that it isn't actually true.
All you're doing is increasing the belief that you are possibly the scum yourself. Due to this behaviour, I'm going to follow JHT's plan for the evening and investigate Sasaki. If two others will do this also, we may have a better chance of ascertaining which detective has which personality trait and see if it correlates with what JHT has said.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 20:07
But let's the do this one:
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Double A
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Sasaki
Ummm, no.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 20:13
I don't think getting more results says anything in particular. Let's say we get a guilty and an innocent on you. It could be the insane cop and the actual cop that investigated you, or the paranoid and the naive cop. And one of them could be lying.
If someone gets two guilties on different people, they know they are the paranoid cop.
If someone gets an innocent on one person, and a guilty on another, they know they are either insane or normal, and that one of the two is mafia.
If they get two innocents, they only know that they aren't paranoid.
Then we have to figure it out based on eliminating possibilities, depending on which people got investigated twice, and who is still alive. The character speculation and role reveals might be very helpful. But I think someone lying could always make it a 50/50 guess, unless they get stuck somehow.
An innocent person investigated by all four cops will have 2 innocent and two guilty results. A guilty person investigated by all four cops will have 2 innocent and two guilty results. It doesn't give extra information as far as I can tell, and increases the likelihood that one person will be killed and all those investigations lost.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 20:15
Ummm, no.
I don't think I have the logic of it wrong. Having extra people investigate the top suspects seems intuitive, that's why I suggested it. But it doesn't seem to actually do anything beneficial.
If we get two guilty results and an innocent result on someone, they are just as likely to be innocent as they are to be guilty.
-edit-
If that person is later revealed to be innocent, then we would know that they were investigated by the paranoid cop and the insane cop (who got the guilty results). But we wouldn't necessarily know which was which.
All four of you could investigate me, if you wanted.
Considering Sasaki is the top of my suspicions just as I am his, he can post his results after I post mine (which will be about Sasaki), and then the rest of you can post yours too. If he's lying, which I'm increasingly starting to believe that he will do, then his results will not correlate with the rest of you.
It's up to you guys what you do, but I've requested a Sasaki investigation and I intend to go through with that decision.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 20:23
All four of you could investigate me, if you wanted.
Considering Sasaki is the top of my suspicions just as I am his, he can post his results after I post mine (which will be about Sasaki), and then the rest of you can post yours too. If he's lying, which I'm increasingly starting to believe that he will do, then his results will not correlate with the rest of you.
It's up to you guys what you do, but I've requested a Sasaki investigation and I intend to go through with that decision.
But let's say you aren't mafia, and you get killed. Then we have zero investigation results to work with. That's what I find scummy about your "all four of you can investigate me, I don't mind" bit that you keep repeating. Only mafia shouldn't mind--townies should mind, because it would work badly for the town. The only benefit would be that the scummiest person (in my mind) would get killed. That's not a benefit from your perspective as a townie.
johnhughthom investigates Methos
Double A investigates johnhughthom
Secura investigates Sasaki
Sasaki investigates Secura
Methos investigates Double A
The underlined have been sent in.
I won't be here for most of the day tomorrow, so I won't be able to post my results until after I return. I'll be in a place that doesn't have internet access. The image below is of the cave I'll be in. We were there a year or so ago, if I remember right and the pic is from then. I'm not sure when I'll be back, but I'll post my results when I'm able to. I haven't sent my orders in yet, as I'm still waiting for a decision to be made.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16369003/sn/1152473139/name/100_6395.jpg
Also, I realise that I have just revealed my role, but considering I've been labelled as the most suspicious one here, it doesn't really matter to me; I'm Officer Brown, and seem to have a snappy taste in leather jackets.
You've revealed nothing and I find it odd that you would claim that you have.
johnhughthom
03-06-2010, 20:34
I haven't sent my orders in yet, as I'm still waiting for a decision to be made.
You're part of that decision making process you know....
Is that you in the photo? Have fun tomorrow, wouldn't catch me doing that.
You're part of that decision making process you know....
Is that you in the photo? Have fun tomorrow, wouldn't catch me doing that.
Yes, it's me in the photo. At one point there's only 8 to 10 inches of airspace in three feet of water. So yes, I'll have a blast!
From reading the previous game I'd have to agree that each of us investigating a different person and sharing the results in the best method. I'm not sure I agree with the everyone scan two people, or that sasaki and secura are going to scan each other.
That's what I find scummy about your "all four of you can investigate me, I don't mind" bit that you keep repeating. Only mafia shouldn't mind--townies should mind, because it would work badly for the town.
Because I grow tired of these accusations that are complete and utter rubbish. There's only so many times I can say this; my character is a somewhat rotund black guy called Officer Brown. He wears a black leather jacket, a chunky gold ring and is in need of a shave. He resembles, in my opinion, an older Sean Kingston.
I haven't seen The Departed, so I seriously ask; is Brown the bad guy in it? If so, by all means, you can lynch my ass tomorrow if I'm not already dead. If my character is the bad guy, I will vote for myself and get it over with. But this is all hyperbole, because I know I'm innocent from my PM; I am not the mafia.
If I do survive the night, then my lynch won't be based upon who any of the investigations point to or any bovine excrement like that; I'm going to vote for the person I find most scummy, and that would be you, Sasaki. Just as I would expect you to lynch me tomorrow if I survive, considering what you see as overwhelming evidence that I'm scum.
The only difference is, you are 100% incorrect, Sasaki. I have will have a 33% chance of being correct.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 20:46
There is a 0% chance that I will vote for you tomorrow. I intend to vote no lynch. We are both either 100% correct or 0% correct.
I expect we will have everyone claim their role when the time comes. If CB has not provided a fake claim for the mafioso, we will most likely find him then.
I was speaking from the sense that you seem one hundred percent convinced that I'm the mafia, and don't really seem open to any other avenue. Whereas I suspect you, yes, but it could just as easily be any of the other players.
Having just spoken to another player via PM, I can see that my arguments are becoming increasingly scummy as I lose my cool, so I can understand the suspicion that you or anyone else may have. That's just me playing badly, which isn't going to help town win, so I apologise.
I maintain the fact that I'm Officer Brown, a simple cop, and will do so until I'm lynched or night-killed. If any of you choose to believe that claim, then thank you. If not, that's your choice, I'm not going to argue against it and dig myself an even greater hole.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-06-2010, 21:14
I was speaking from the sense that you seem one hundred percent convinced that I'm the mafia, and don't really seem open to any other avenue. Whereas I suspect you, yes, but it could just as easily be any of the other players.
I'm a firm believer in shrodingers cat theory of mafia.
I maintain the fact that I'm Officer Brown, a simple cop, and will do so until I'm lynched or night-killed. If any of you choose to believe that claim, then thank you. If not, that's your choice, I'm not going to argue against it and dig myself an even greater hole.
If when we get to day three and claim our roles, and the mafia do not have a fakeclaim, then we will win. Until then claiming a role is not valuable.
Methos investigates Double A
These were my orders.
Captain Blackadder
03-07-2010, 13:34
Night One
Billy Costigan is worried he feels he is a strong target for the rat since he is the only one who has ever seen him (even if only from a distance). As he wanders the police station he comes across something that shocks him on the desk of one of his fellow officers. He sees a note containing the details of Costello's men that has one of the names misspelt it is the very same note that he saw another member of Costello's mob write which means the man whose desk this is on is the mole as he turns to tell it to the world the rat comes behind him and shots him in the head.
https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1875/costigan.png (https://img268.imageshack.us/i/costigan.png/)
JohnHughthom (Billy Costigan) is dead
Begin Day 2
Sigh, I predicted this would happen via PM to johnhughthom. There's one of two possibilities unfolding here now, I'll have to see more results before I can ascertain which one.
Anyway, seeing as I agreed to post my results first, the sole word in my results PM for the Sasaki investigation was:
"Guilty".
So I am either the Paranoid (always Guilty), Insane (all results backwards) or Normal (self-explanatory) Officer.
Sasaki, you should post yours next, please. :3
Sasaki Kojiro
03-07-2010, 15:59
I got Secura as innocent.
Anyway, seeing as I agreed to post my results first, the sole word in my results PM
You really can't try and prove your innocence by doing this stuff. Anyway, mine had the quote where I said "I'll investigate Secura" and then the one word result.
Methos is caving, won't be online for a while, so Double A can post his investigation of johnhughthom when possible; the result can still be used to determine who is which cop.
EDIT - removing collated results until Methos posts.
Double A
03-07-2010, 18:14
Well, I can't be normal or naive, because I got guilty on john.
johnhughthom
03-07-2010, 18:38
If you are Dignam that would fit my earlier theory. Although Secura's result doesn't fit.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-07-2010, 18:39
Where were you yesterday double A?
Sorry, I was sick yesterday, and on top of that I didn't know where my Mac was, and my PC has been infected with the XP 2010 security virus (read: a real pain in the :furious3:)
He wasn't able to get online. :3
I've removed those collated results until Methos posts, in the event that he could be the mafia.
Double A
03-07-2010, 19:13
Where were you yesterday double A?
You mean Friday? I was sick, and I didn't know where my laptop was. My desktop was infected with that annoying ATI Security XP 2010 virus (...again). And my dad wouldn't let me get on them anyway since he was home sick too (he has bronchitis).
So in short, I didn't have computer acess, and didn't feel like trying.
johnhughthom
03-07-2010, 19:16
My desktop was infected with that annoying ATI Security XP 2010 virus (...again).
You been at the porn? (....again).
Double A
03-07-2010, 19:17
Uhm... gah?
My results on Double A were 'Guilty'. It was just that word, no quote or anything.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-07-2010, 23:14
So:
Methos gets a guilty on Double A
Sasaki gets an innocent on Secura
Secura gets a guilty on Sasaki
Double A gets a guilty on john (known innocent)
Based on the results, either Double is guilty, I am guilty, or one of Secura/Methos/Double A lied. So, we know nothing.
I think getting the results on the deceased is a big benefit to us. If indeed we do get results and Double A isn't lying. We have to make sure we do that, everyone needs to be investigated.
Something like:
Double A investigates Sasaki
Sasaki investigates Double A
Methos investigates Secura
Secura investigates Methos
I'm don't think it makes any difference what order we do it in.
Vote:No lynch
Wow, that is an interesting turn-up for the books.
Our results suggest the following based upon that conclusion:
Paranoid: Secura, Double A, Methos, JHT
Naive: Sasaki, JHT
Insane: Secura, Double A, Methos, JHT
Normal: Sasaki, Methos, Secura, JHT
Naturally we don't know which type of officer JHT was, so we have him down as being a possibility for all four.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-07-2010, 23:17
There can be three guilty's, if the normal cop investigates the mole. Or three innocents if the insane cop does.
Hmmm, I see. You have pointed out something I didn't consider.
I was going to say that if we were to assume that you're lying, then there would be no innocent results at all, right? Which would be impossible, no? Even at this stage, there would have to be one innocent result. I was going to say that proves you as innocent, but you've opened my eyes to another possibility.
Thanks. :3
Considering we are down an officer, you would have either:
1) One innocent result, two guilty, whichever the fake chose
2) Two innocent results, one guilty, whichever the fake chose.
So this means that either Secura, Double A, or myself is the mafia. My caving day kind of screwed things up, because had the mafia been able to wait, doing a two and two would have kept everyone a suspect. Right now I'm inclined to believe Sasaki is innocent, assuming Secura is correct on the one and three.
Sasaki cannot be the Paranoid or Insane Officer.
Secura cannot be the Naive or Normal Officer.
I disagree. Your conclusion is based on us believing you to be a townie. I'm still hesitant to believe so, so your conclusions have no foundation.
I'm tired and starting to get sore, so I'm not thinking clearly. I do agree with the Vote: No Lynch.
So this means that either Secura, Double A, or myself is the mafia. My caving day kind of screwed things up, because had the mafia been able to wait, doing a two and two would have kept everyone a suspect. Right now I'm inclined to believe Sasaki is innocent, assuming Secura is correct on the one and three.
No, this actually doesn't hold true; Sasaki found a flaw in this logic, and I believe that his opened the possibility that he is the mafia again. I actually thought that, as the sole person to vote innocent, he was not the mafia at all.
However, if you consider that you, myself and Double A are the Insane (gets their results wrong), Paranoid (always finds people guilty) and Normal cops (in whatever order)... it's perfectly plausible for there to be three guilty verdicts and a single innocent. That also indicates who the mafia is, if you work it out.
I disagree. Your conclusion is based on us believing you to be a townie. I'm still hesitant to believe so, so your conclusions have no foundation.
My conclusions are based upon what I know, and that is that I am innocent. You are entitled to your own conclusions, naturally, but I request solely that you keep an open mind. Personally, I believe that my reasoning is pointing towards Sasaki, but I think another round of results would be the best means of finding out for certain.
FoS: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: No Lynch
Double A
03-08-2010, 08:54
Uh... are you in the game, "Beskie?"
Right, so if I get guilty on Sasaki, that either means I'm paranoid and he's innocent, or I'm paranoid and he's guilty, and if I get innocent then he's guilty... it could be worse.
Captain Blackadder
03-08-2010, 12:57
https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1111/thedepartedlaptopsprevi.jpg (https://img20.imageshack.us/i/thedepartedlaptopsprevi.jpg/)
Once again Elerby gathers everyone together. This time he has enlisted the greatest technology to help in discovering who is the rat. Someone speaks up "Whomever has rats following them is the rat" No don't be crazy no one would use the much obvious imagery." Ok then is anyone made a decision on who the rat is. No they reply we need to look a bit further but we are sure we will find him before too many of us die. Ok replies Elerby as long as I am not in the firing line it is fine by me.
Begin Night 2
Double A investigates Sasaki
Sasaki investigates Double A
Methos investigates Secura
Secura investigates Methos
This isn't good investigating. Say that, hypothetically, Methos was to die; his result on me couldn't be revealed, and my result on him wouldn't carry so much water if he was dead. I think:
Double A investigates Sasaki
Sasaki investigates Methos
Methos investigates Secura
Secura investigates Double A
...is better. The same structure as we had before. I'll send my order for Double A.
I agree with Secura, so I'm investigating Secura.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-08-2010, 16:34
I'll investigate methos then.
Captain Blackadder
03-09-2010, 13:26
Night Two
Trooper Barrigan is waiting at night time he is concerned for he is the other mole in the department and was supposed to do some things if the other mole was discovered.However it appears like he is never going to get that chance for on this night he is being followed by someone. Just as he is about to leave a man stands behind pulls out a pistol and shoots him dead. Barrigan feels no pain and dies within seconds.
MOD NOTE BARRIGAN (METHOS) WAS A TOWNIE IT IS JUST BEING A WHILE SINCE I WATCHED THE MOVIE AND I HAD FORGOT THAT BARRIGAN WAS A TRAITOR AS WELL.
BEGIN DAY 2
Double A is innocent, according to investigation results.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-09-2010, 15:36
I got an innocent on methos.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-09-2010, 15:52
Running through the possibilities, I think I was right and we should have just lynched from the start. The investigation thing was fun though.
I don't see anyway to legitimately determine who the mafia is based on investigations. Almost a 1/3 of them are going to be falsified.
johnhughthom
03-09-2010, 18:21
MOD NOTE BARRIGAN (METHOS) WAS A TOWNIE IT IS JUST BEING A WHILE SINCE I WATCHED THE MOVIE AND I HAD FORGOT THAT BARRIGAN WAS A TRAITOR AS WELL.
How could you have forgotten that?? I nearly fell off my sofa when he killed Costigan. I had been wondering if he might be in the game as mafia instead of Sullivan.
Lynch Sasaki.
Where's Double A?
His results are paramount to figuring this out. :<
I don't see anyway to legitimately determine who the mafia is based on investigations. Almost a 1/3 of them are going to be falsified.
Whoever the mafia is they've been paying attention to our discussion as well, so why not look for what is missing. Look at the victims and who they were supposed to investigate and/or who that would have helped had they're results been known.
Double A
03-09-2010, 22:58
Alright, I got guilty results on Sasaki... I'm probably paranoid, since Sasaki or one of the dead guys is apparently the loony.
By the way, I'm normally at school from ~7am to ~3:30pm EST, which is why I didn't post until just now.
Hmmm, that would make sense, Double A. I had actually believed that I might have been the Insane Cop, which would mean that Sasaki is innocent and you are guilty.
However, if we agree that you're innocent and thus you are the Paranoid Cop, that would automatically make Methos the Insane Cop, as he got a guilty read on you. That would mean that I am, in fact, the Normal Cop, with my results stating that you are innocent. From there, the results speak for themselves; johnhughthom would be the Naive Cop and Sasaki would be the mole.
vote: Sasaki Kojiro
Double A
03-09-2010, 23:17
Or that he's the naive, john was normal, and you are lying... both seem plausible to me.
You both seem scummy to me, but I haven't played many games with you, and Sasaki always acts scummy.
I'm just gonna wait and see what Sasaki has to say about the matter.
I believe that Sasaki is the scum and have done so for the entire course of the game; I had some doubts, especially when he was the only person to claim an innocent result, because at that point I ruled him out entirely and thought it might've been you. However, he found the flaw in my thinking and actually reaffirmed, in my mind, that he could be the mafia after all.
At the very start of the thread, Sasaki pounced on my posts which were, to me, not really that scummy at all; it was my attempts to defend these posts that ultimately cast me in a scummier light. The extent to which he has maintained that I am the guilty party, even before yourself or Methos had posted at all, did little to ease my beliefs. Personally, I wouldn't make two long posts like that right off the bat if I was scum, which let's be honest is akin to running around Germany doing the goose-step; you're going to draw attention to yourself, the very last thing a mafia would want.
I believe that I have been kept alive this long solely for the reason that I make a convenient shield for the true mafia because of my somewhat scummy defense of myself. If Sasaki had killed me in an early night phase, he would have made himself stand out as the scummiest person. I knew this was going to happen and knew that it would essentially boil down to who the third person believed most; myself or Sasaki.
I have been completely honest for the entire game, and while I might not be as intelligent as Sasaki, I would like to think that I have at least got the measure of him on this one; he is the mafia. I genuinely believe that you're innocent, and I also believe that Sasaki is going to vote for me as has probably been the intention from the get-go.
I guess what I'm saying is that the decision of the game is in your hands; whichever way you vote determines if the town wins or loses. I hope you make the right decision.
tl; dr - Remember Rule #1.
Double A
03-09-2010, 23:59
But it's not like Sasaki to mess up, or is it? I'm not really sure, he normally gets D1 lynched in games we're in together, so I don't know.
Like I said, I'm going to wait till he pulls his case, in the meantime, fos: both of you
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 00:02
Methos gets a guilty on Double A
Sasaki gets an innocent on Secura
Secura gets a guilty on Sasaki
Double A gets a guilty on john (known innocent)
Secura gets innocent on Double A
Sasaki gets innocent on methos (known innocent)
Double A gets guilty on Sasaki
Going by claimed results:
Sasaki cannot be paranoid or insane
Secura cannot be naive or paranoid
Double A cannot be normal, naive, or insane--> he is paranoid
John could have been anything
Methos could not be naive (so was either normal or insane)
If methos is normal:
Double A is guilty
Makes sasaki Naive
Secura insane
If he was insane:
Double A is innocent (and therefore paranoid)
Either sasaki or secura is guilty and lying
If sasaki is guilty, secura is normal and john was naive
If secura is guilty, sasaki is naive and john was normal.
So, it tells us nothing, any of us could be guilty purely from the results. I don't see anything anyway. Even if we each assume we are innocent, it could be either of the other two people.
*******
Secura is the mafia.
Vote:Secura
My first post, a vote with no reason given.
I suspected that someone would jump such a foolish conclusion; I hadn't thought that it would be you, Sasaki, of all people.
What is your reasoning behind such a vote? To me, it seems like a scummy attempt to kill someone who's utilising their brain to figure things out. There's no better option this round but to vote for no lynch. You're effectively killing the town's ability to win by doing so... so why would you do that?
I can assure you that I am a simply cop, though I don't believe that will sway you.
Now, look at this post carefully. The main difference between mafia and town in this game is that the mafia know the alignment of other players. When someone accuses them, they know that person is town, and when they accuse someone, they know that person is town.
In the first paragraph, Secura says that she "didn't think I would have jumped to such a foolish conclusion". Only townies jump to conclusions, mafia are making things up. The wording shows that she knows I'm town. And mafia are more likely to be paranoid about someone jumping on their posts than townies are.
Then it's "seems like a scummy attempt", my vote on here is mafioso like, she says. Contradicts the last paragraph.
In a following post:
I found what you said scummy because you were trying to call me out for, quite frankly, flip all.
This is different from what she said at the time. Before she said I was scummy for trying to squash the best plan for the town.
a) it isn't the best plan for the town
b) This is all in response to my "secura is mafia vote:secura" post. Overreacting.
If you lynch me, which isn't going to end the game by the way, then you're left with three people in Day Two. How are you going to win at that point?
This is directed at me as a townie again. She describes a situation that would be tough for the town and says "how are you going to win at that point?".
Also, I realise that I have just revealed my role, but considering I've been labelled as the most suspicious one here, it doesn't really matter to me; I'm Officer Brown, and seem to have a snappy taste in leather jackets.
Very eager to reveal her role.
Mine is captain queenan, I assume Double A has a role to claim as well. Mafia like to claim their fakeclaim roles to make themselves look innocent. This claim came after john was speculating that the players role might give away what kind of cop they were. If that was true, then by claiming secura would help the mafia find the normal and insane cops.
Your insistence upon this is going to make you look extremely foolish when it transpires that it isn't actually true.
Assuming I'm town. Accusing an innocent person only makes the accuser look foolish if they are also town.
All you're doing is increasing the belief that you are possibly the scum yourself. Due to this behaviour, I'm going to follow JHT's plan for the evening and investigate Sasaki. If two others will do this also, we may have a better chance of ascertaining which detective has which personality trait and see if it correlates with what JHT has said.
Now I'm mafia again. Basically the trend is that secura makes statements that have a strong subtext of "sasaki is town", but then claims out loud that my arguments against her make me scum. This post directly contradicts good strategy, which she herself posted earlier:
Are we going to use the structure that was suggested in the previous game, or are we following Sasaki's "three people investigate Secura"? I'll go along with either, but I wouldn't commit to putting all our eggs into one basket; what would we do if three people committed to investigating me overnight and I was night-killed? :/
She didn't really put much thought into this, the main point of this post was to show that she didn't mind being investigated. She later ignores the possibility of me being nightkilled and making the results useless because she knows she isn't going to nightkill me.
Considering Sasaki is the top of my suspicions just as I am his, he can post his results after I post mine (which will be about Sasaki), and then the rest of you can post yours too. If he's lying, which I'm increasingly starting to believe that he will do, then his results will not correlate with the rest of you.
Is now convinced I am mafia, out of the blue...
If I do survive the night, then my lynch won't be based upon who any of the investigations point to or any bovine excrement like that; I'm going to vote for the person I find most scummy, and that would be you, Sasaki.
And will vote me no matter what the investigations point to :/
Whereas I suspect you, yes, but it could just as easily be any of the other players.
Except not.
****
Her insisting on investigating me, the guilty claim, the next day innocent claim, and the attempt to draw conclusions from the results even though you can't legitimately do so all point to her trying to set herself up as the normal cop. I don't see any type of setup like that in Double A's post.
Summary:
The subtext of many of her posts implies that I'm town. i.e., she says things to me that you wouldn't say to someone you thought was mafia.
The initial suspicion of me was only on account of my having attacked her (which she overreacted to)
She contradicts herself
Essentially, if you try and follow her train of thought through the thread, it isn't the thinking of a townie who becomes convinced that another person is scum. It's the train of thought of a mafioso who decides that they should accuse the person who is attacking them.
Vote:Secura
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 00:05
Oh and Double A, if you are actually mafia, kick back and enjoy the victory. Thank secura for oozing scumminess with every post (I'm innocent guys, here's my role claim, I don't mind if you all investigate me!) and me for deciding not to push the lynch day 1 plan.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 00:11
Why did you hint you were Sullivan when I asked before Sasaki? Was it WIFOM? From how the game has gone it appears the roles are set as they were in the film, trying to work out scum at that point by role revealing may have worked. Not only did you not deny being Sullivan you gently turned the discussion toward investigation methods and away from finding players roles, which is what really made me suspect you. I still think it's you. If it's Double A then you should be ashamed of your lurky victory. If Secura, well played.
Well, it wasn't constant changing my mind; my posts were like that so you wouldn't be certain I suspected you or not, but that's by-the-by. There isn't really any means of arguing with that. I don't feel I oozed scumminess with every post, but to each their own.
Vote as you see fit, Double A, the ball is in your court.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 00:13
I believe that Sasaki is the scum and have done so for the entire course of the game;
No you haven't, see my above post.
At the very start of the thread, Sasaki pounced on my posts which were, to me, not really that scummy at all;
No, you said you thought someone would jump on them. I'm also a pouncer. I jump on people every game, you played noblesse with me, you should know this. What did I say about Andres when I decided to lynch him?
The extent to which he has maintained that I am the guilty party, even before yourself or Methos had posted at all, did little to ease my beliefs.
First, as I said earlier, I believe in the schrodingers cat theory of mafia. People who haven't posted yet are not scummy.
Second, I found john the most suspicious of the three (for trying to skip out of the day one talk), and was glad he was killed. It would have been terrible strategy to reveal my top suspect. The mafia were going to kill two of them, hopefully the one I found most suspicious.
I questioned them a few times.
Personally, I wouldn't make two long posts like that right off the bat if I was scum, which let's be honest is akin to running around Germany doing the goose-step; you're going to draw attention to yourself, the very last thing a mafia would want.
If you thought WIFOM was a good defense, you would think this made me innocent:
I had some doubts, especially when he was the only person to claim an innocent result, because at that point I ruled him out entirely and thought it might've been you. However, he found the flaw in my thinking and actually reaffirmed, in my mind, that he could be the mafia after all.
Double A
03-10-2010, 00:15
After reading Sasaki's giant post twice, and after going back and looking at Secura's post, this just strikes me as odd.
tl; dr - Remember Rule #1.
I did read the post, but this one line just seems like a scumgernade thrown in my face... like a last-chance plea to get me to vote for her enemy, hoping I'm too lazy to care, or a joke that will seal the job.
vote: Secura
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 00:18
Why did you hint you were Sullivan when I asked before Sasaki? Was it WIFOM? From how the game has gone it appears the roles are set as they were in the film, trying to work out scum at that point by role revealing may have worked. Not only did you not deny being Sullivan you gently turned the discussion toward investigation methods and away from finding players roles, which is what really made me suspect you. I still think it's you. If it's Double A then you should be ashamed of your lurky victory. If Secura, well played.
My role was captain queenan, your theory had me as the normal cop. I was investigating Secura. If your theory was proven correct, I would probably be killed.
I don't think the roles reveal anything however.
I was joking about the sullivan thing, because secura had been saying how she hadn't seen the movie, and it would be funny if someone accidentally confessed to being the mole. I capitalized the J and added a K to that quote in case people took it seriously for some reason.
No you haven't, see my above post.
Actually yes, I have, and you can ask Beskar regarding that if you so choose; I have shared all my thoughts of the game with him, from my very first post until you and I revealed our results for this phase. I have actually done this for every single game I have played at .Org thus far, even Noblesse Oblige, though he never gave any hints on that particular game.
He likes to see my theories on what's happening, match them to his own and then (as is typical of him) give me a blunt "you're wrong" or "you're right". Beskar was actually maintaining your innocence and pointing at Double A, until I pointed out the very possibility you pointed out.
Like it or not, I have suspected you for the entire game, treacle.
vote: Secura
I expected this. Whomsoever is the mafia out of the pair of you has won.
I'm sorry I played so poorly, JHT and Methos.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 00:27
I will be terrible amused if Double A is mafia. His posts today have a certain reserved glee about them, which you'd expect from a mafioso watching two townies post giant attacks on each other.
But I believe in lynching people who have been scummy the whole game :)
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 00:27
I capitalized the J and added a K to that quote in case people took it seriously for some reason.
Gah, I totally missed that.~:doh:
I will be terrible amused if Double A is mafia. His posts today have a certain reserved glee about them, which you'd expect from a mafioso watching two townies post giant attacks on each other.
But I believe in lynching people who have been scummy the whole game :)
I'm afraid that is the case; you're either going to be a very happy mafia or a very sad townie. Either way, it looks like you're going to be amused, so it can't be all that bad.
I did read the post, but this one line just seems like a scumgernade thrown in my face... like a last-chance plea to get me to vote for her enemy, hoping I'm too lazy to care, or a joke that will seal the job.
Too late to change things, certainly, but felt I should clarify this for you.
Beskar informs me that Sasaki's "Remember Rule #1" custom title means "Rule #1: Sasaki is mafia" or something to that effect. I believe he is guilty, and posted that in the event that you decided not to read all of my post (I have the tendancy to waffle at times) and simply skipped to the end.
Not really a plea of sorts, because I expected to have two votes against me at this stage (I knew this was going to happen, yada, yada, yada)... just a sort of "don't forget this" sort of thing.
S'all there was to it.
I'm inclined to believe that Sasaki is the mole. My reasoning is simple, my posts seemed to show I believed Secura over Sasaki. If I had survived Secura would have easily persuaded me to join her against Sasaki. Double A on the otherhand was an unknown. Therefore I had to die. If Secura was the mole she should have taken out Double A.
Now if Double A is the mole then leaving both Secura and Sasaki alive was the wisest choice. Personally my vote is that Sasaki is the mole.
Sorry I'm writing this on my phone sothe above cameout unclear. Basically the only reason I was killed last night would be if Sasaki or Double A was the mole. Killing me was suicide I'd the mole is Secura.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 03:48
Yesterday you said you thought I was innocent:
Right now I'm inclined to believe Sasaki is innocent
I'm tempted to switch to double A. But I think it's too late.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 03:51
Yes, I've decided Secura is innocent, and Double A is guilty.
unvote, Vote:Double A
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 03:53
Death changes things.
You aren't making a lot of sense Methos...
Double A
03-10-2010, 03:56
Sasaki, you're pretty freaking scummy. Secura kind of explained the td;dr line, and now that I think about it, she's less likely to be scum, even though her some of her posts reek of it. My gut's giving me a bad feeling about both of you, but I'm gonna take a chance on this and unvote, vote: Sasaki
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 03:59
Sasaki, you're pretty freaking scummy. Secura kind of explained the td;dr line, and now that I think about it, she's less likely to be scum, even though her some of her posts reek of it. My gut's giving me a bad feeling about both of you, but I'm gonna take a chance on this and unvote, vote: Sasaki
:laugh4:
No, you are mafia. You will probably win though since Secura won't get back in time.
If I'm mafia, tell me why I switched my vote when victory was assured?
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 04:02
This game is crazy, you're all acting ridiculously scummily.:rolleyes4:
You aren't making a lot of sense Methos...
I wish work didn't block the site so I could type this on a computer. The short of it is that today was all about keeping the people alive you either knew would vote a certain way or who you knew you could get to vote how you wanted. Sasaki and Double A are the only ones who gain by my death.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 04:17
This game is crazy, you're all acting ridiculously scummily.:rolleyes4:
Secura is very scummy, but she's town. I might be scummy (up to you), but there's no reason for me to unvote if I was mafia.
Double A is very clearly the mole.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 04:26
but there's no reason for me to unvote if I was mafia.
I have to admit that threw me, I certainly wasn't expecting it. Secura is going to have a difficult choice to make, I hope she checks in here before she goes to work/college/whatever she does.
Double A
03-10-2010, 04:29
:laugh4:
No, you are mafia. You will probably win though since Secura won't get back in time.
If I'm mafia, tell me why I switched my vote when victory was assured?
It's another freaking WIFOM that you are using to confuse Secura.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 04:31
It's another freaking WIFOM that you are using to confuse Secura.
But there was no need for it, he had the game won if he is scum. How could he have known you were going to change your vote to him?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 04:35
It's another freaking WIFOM that you are using to confuse Secura.
Why do I want to confuse Secura?
You think I'm going for some sort of ultimate victory, by hoping that she checks the game at 8 am and decides to vote for you after saying that she would "vote for sasaki no matter what the investigation results are"? Instead of just leaving my vote on her, content that I'd convinced you with my massive wall of text post?
You guys are lucky that a) I can't sleep, b) I was getting bored of Prof Layton and c) decided to check the Gameroom via iPhone xD
Not really sure what to make of this; I guess I should thank Methos for a start. I'm glad you realised that I sorta needed your investigation to prove my innocence... so had no reason to kill you at all. It was why I suggested the investigation change, because I felt I was being set up, and it was true.
Where does it go from here though?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 04:54
Now you vote double A, or at least unvote me.
This is double A as mafia in pick your power:
Sorry, I was busy playing the Bad Company 2 demo... er I mean doing homework.
I have thought long and hard on the bulletproof WIFOM... if I were mafia I'd pick or claim it to throw the town off, or get my partner to attack me so that way I'd look innocent (which probably would happen tonight). But that's just me. But anyway, vote: Cent
Compare to his posts today.
He starts out sitting on the fence competely "fos:both of you".
After I post my case he picks up on a single thing from your post and makes it the basis of his vote on you.
I switch my vote (very very unlikely as a mafia move) and he switches right over to me and stays put. No "you're wrong sasaki, secura really is mafia, I'm innocent", he just puts his vote in winning position.
Opportunistic mafia.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 05:02
What character are you Double A?
I have had to reboot my laptop; trying to formulate proper posts with my phone's touchscreen was proving impossible, and it's not like I have sausage fingers or anything. -_-'
I'm going to be completely honest and say that I'm not really sure what to do, because I never expected to be put into this situation whatsoever; I went to sleep because I felt it was a done deal, and the town had lost.
Someone has been thinking ahead as each kill happened; killing johnhughthom so that the Sasaki-Secura argument stood out, killing Methos so that there was a missing result on me in this phase... everything has been orchestrated to make me look the most culpable; the true townie should have realised my innocence. :/
I have a question that sorta need addressing anyway:
Double A... if you're certain that Sasaki is scum, why did he change vote?
If I was the scum, I'd have ignored Methos' post, not drawn attention to it or anything like that and waited it out until Blackadder ends this in seven hours or so, where I'd have been home and dry and won.
unvote, for the time being... not really sure what to believe at the moment, t'is very late. :<
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 05:46
Actually, this was the plan from the beginning. I picked someone at random, and acted like I was convinced they were mafia. That guaranteed my survival to the final day. Then, either they would crack under the pressure, or the other guy would reveal himself as opportunistic mafia.
...Suuuuure :sweatdrop:
If I was the scum, I'd have ignored Methos' post, not drawn attention to it or anything like that and waited it out until Blackadder ends this in seven hours or so, where I'd have been home and dry and won.
It wasn't even methos's post really. I don't think it would be suicidal for you to kill him as mafia, he even said yesterday that he thought I was innocent.
I was just struggling with the though of "yeah, Double A is probably mafia, but how foolish will I look if Secura is mafia and I unvote after having pegged her as mafia in my first post".
And then I decided to heck with it, double A was being opportunistic and playing like he did in the game I hosted, and you were lots scummier here then when you were as mafia in nobless. I decided your insistence on offering yourself up for investigation and claiming your role were you earnestly trying to convince us of your innocence rather than mafia trying to manipulate us, and that your suspicion of me was more of disbelief and outrage that I was attacking you so hard than a calculated move to take down your biggest threat. You also kept up appearances after the votes were cast and Double A was ready to call it a day.
It wasn't even methos's post really. I don't think it would be suicidal for you to kill him as mafia, he even said yesterday that he thought I was innocent.
Well, he said you were innocent based upon the reasoning I gave that you were innocent; when I said you were the sole person to claim that result, it must have meant you're innocent yourself. You pointed out the flaw in that, and I realised it was possible you were still mafia; he clearly changed his mind and went back to not having an inkling who was guilty or innocent either way.
I decided your insistence on offering yourself up for investigation and claiming your role were you earnestly trying to convince us of your innocence rather than mafia trying to manipulate us, and that your suspicion of me was more of disbelief and outrage that I was attacking you so hard than a calculated move to take down your biggest threat. You also kept up appearances after the votes were cast and Double A was ready to call it a day.
I'm actually glad that you've finally understood what I've been trying to do for the last four days. Unfortunately it's come at a point where I have no idea who is actually the scum, though it doesn't really help Double A's case if he isn't posting.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 06:11
What's suspicious about me at this point?
Homing in on someone and throwing the kitchen sink at them in an attempt to get them lynched is a well known flaw/feature of my townie play.
At this point, honestly?
Not as much as there was previously, perhaps, because some of those concerns have been eased whereas others have appeared in Double A. The only certainty I've had from the start is my own innocence, everything else is what I infer from posts and results. Things aren't looking good for AA though, really; he doesn't have long to answer what his role is, among other things.
However, for all I know, this could simply be a very clever gambit of yours designed to take into account the words of Methos and JHT before Double A could jump onto them, bring me back into the game and have me vote off AA instead. You're certainly intelligent enough to think of something like that, and it's worked to an extent already (I unvoted, no?)... it's somewhat possible.
If it was Double A and someone else, I'd have voted AA without being so cautious or hesistant. It's because it's you, such a good mafia player, that I'm exercising a bit more restraint.
However, for all I know, this could simply be a very clever gambit of yours designed to take into account the words of Methos and JHT before Double A could jump onto them, bring me back into the game and have me vote off AA instead. You're certainly intelligent enough to think of something like that, and it's worked to an extent already (I unvoted, no?)... it's somewhat possible.
I had considered this too and realized he could always change it back at the last minute. It is very risky, but devious too. Granted, if he is the mafia, he's doing an excellent job as I'm leaning more towards AA now.
Captain Blackadder
03-10-2010, 11:40
Ok with a tie in the final round and not long to go a decision has being made by myself the game is to continue untill someone breaks the deadlock whomever that is will be the final vote after that the game is over even if I am not on at the time.
There goes the hope that I could ease my troubles with random.org. :P
Still need to hear from Double A about a few things first.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 19:01
Come on Secura, make your decision! I need to know!!:furious3:
:clown:
I need piece of mind first, and only Double A answering the questions thrown at him will grant that. Waiting for him to get home from school, I assume. :/
Apologies.
Double A
03-10-2010, 20:21
Sorry I was sleeping. And when I went up I had to go to school. Unless of course you all would prefer it if I stayed of 24/7 :tongue:
Bigger post coming
Double A
03-10-2010, 20:44
What character are you Double A?
Staff Sgt. Dingham
At this point, honestly?
Not as much as there was previously, perhaps, because some of those concerns have been eased whereas others have appeared in Double A. The only certainty I've had from the start is my own innocence, everything else is what I infer from posts and results. Things aren't looking good for AA though, really; he doesn't have long to answer what his role is, among other things.
Role done, other things coming.
However, for all I know, this could simply be a very clever gambit of yours designed to take into account the words of Methos and JHT before Double A could jump onto them, bring me back into the game and have me vote off AA instead. You're certainly intelligent enough to think of something like that, and it's worked to an extent already (I unvoted, no?)... it's somewhat possible.
If it was Double A and someone else, I'd have voted AA without being so cautious or hesistant. It's because it's you, such a good mafia player, that I'm exercising a bit more restraint.
This is what also throws me off. Yes, Sasaki, I do believe you have a master plan, and that first paragraph is pretty much how I picture it (minus the maniacal laughter, of course).
I figured that, since you then knew Secura wasn't Dingham, then I must be him. And for all I know, CB could have added a personal victory where Dingham is offed before one side wins, either cops or mole. That way if you lost you'd still get a consolidation prize.
This is double A as mafia in pick your power:
(quoted posts)
Compare to his posts today.
Ok you know as well as I do that, even though the town basically chopped it's legs off in that game I still didn't know if there was a cop, doctor, or anything else. I only knew me and atheotes were the mafia, and got the lynch-related roles, which is an advantage in itself, we were still stumbling around in the dark. Compare them to other games where I had no freaking idea on what was going on.
I'm very consistent.
He starts out sitting on the fence completely "fos:both of you".
Because I was on the fence. You both acted equally guilty. All the accusations you both threw at each other made my eyes sore.
After I post my case he picks up on a single thing from your post and makes it the basis of his vote on you.
I'm not good at analyzing posts, but I could have pulled up a whole splurge of things. I was just hoping to go to sleep "early" for a change.
I switch my vote (very very unlikely as a mafia move) and he switches right over to me and stays put. No "you're wrong sasaki, secura really is mafia, I'm innocent", he just puts his vote in winning position.
Yeah try telling me to do something that makes sense at 11 pm, see what happens.
Opportunistic mafia.
I'm not just an opportunistic mafia: I'm completely opportunistic.
I'm very consistent.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 20:54
This is what also throws me off. Yes, Sasaki, I do believe you have a master plan, and that first paragraph is pretty much how I picture it (minus the maniacal laughter, of course).
But why would it be me as mafia with that plan, rather than secura doing the same thing now, prolonging the day to make the victory sweeter?
If you'd really thought Secura was more suspicious you wouldn't have jumped right over to me, setting me up as the lynch. You just wanted one of us to be lynched.
I figured that, since you then knew Secura wasn't Dingham, then I must be him. And for all I know, CB could have added a personal victory where Dingham is offed before one side wins, either cops or mole. That way if you lost you'd still get a consolidation prize.
CB could have added an additional victory condition...? :inquisitive:
I figured that, since you then knew Secura wasn't Dingham, then I must be him.
What does this part mean?
To me, it sounds like "if Secura wasn't Dingham, I must be him"... well, would you not have known you're this Dingham from the moment you recieved your role PM? o_o
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 20:58
He's talking about what he think I knew. Sasaki jnew secura wasn't dingham, so sasaki knew that double A must be dingham. And decided to try and lynch him because of a secret victory condition added by Captain Blackadder.
Double A
03-10-2010, 21:01
Exactly.
Argh, I feel as though I'm going around in circles! This isn't really an easy decision, but I'm prolonging the game by not making my mind up, which isn't fair on either of you, the audience or the host.
I've felt that Sasaki was guilty for the full course of the game, and after thinking long and hard about this, I'm going to stick with that feeling and vote: Sasaki. I just can't see enough to absolve you of blame and find Double A more culpable, I'm afraid.
If you are guilty, then I'm glad it's finally done and dusted, because this game's drained the life out of me. And if you are actually innocent... well I cannot think of a finer player to be on the losing side with to be honest; you played a brilliant game no matter what the true outcome.
johnhughthom
03-10-2010, 21:13
Don't feel too bad if you're wrong Secura, I would have done the same.
Looking forward to the update! [Looks around for adder]
A friend told me that, at the end of the day, the decision is mine to make and no matter what the outcome, I've played the game as best I could. I had to follow my initial feelings through and face the conclusion they led to know matter what. Many thanks to that friend for the advice. :3
I'm not going to worry too much if I'm wrong, because I know that I really enjoyed this little tête-à-tête with Sasaki and it's turned out to be one of the best games I've had, here or elsewhere. I think that no matter what happens, he's the true winner of the game.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-10-2010, 21:22
Oh well, I confess.
not to being the mole necessarily. Let's just leave that up in the air shall we?
I find that both hilarious and want to tell you where to stick it! :laugh4:
Askthepizzaguy
03-10-2010, 22:41
Now that the game has been decided, I want to say I've thoroughly enjoyed it very much.
:applause:
Now that the game has been decided, I want to say I've thoroughly enjoyed it very much.
:applause:
It's been a good one... bit of a rollercoaster.
johnhughthom
03-11-2010, 02:11
Now that the game has been decided, I want to say I've thoroughly enjoyed it very much.
:applause:
What would you do in Secura's shoes?
It was fun to watch. I was able to determine after the first night based on Methos being innocent that no matter who the mafia was, they knew the normal cop's identity. I wasn't able to get back to it after Methos' death to see the implications.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 04:09
It was fun to watch. I was able to determine after the first night based on Methos being innocent that no matter who the mafia was, they knew the normal cop's identity. I wasn't able to get back to it after Methos' death to see the implications.
I don't know if it's possible even now to determine the normal cops identity.
Who do you think was mafia out of the last three?
Askthepizzaguy
03-11-2010, 04:16
What would you do in Secura's shoes?
I wasn't paying close attention to this game, so I don't know.
I know there's a solution to the Dethy game which is easily found online, which renders the game nearly impossible for the mafia to win even with perfect play. And, it would require perfect play to even have a shot at it. IMO the game is imbalanced when people know the solution.
In my casual observation, Sasaki was doing everything, and I mean literally everything, I would have done to escape death as mafia. His last minute switch to Double A is something I would have tried to do to get Secura's favor, because it's not an intuitive move for a scum to do. That's the entire point.
It was either him or Double A, but Sasaki seemed to put up more of a fight and he definitely tried to influence Secura more than Double A did. That doesn't always indicate scum, but it does indicate that he felt powerless in the final round and needed additional support.
However Double A wasn't impressing me at all. it was a very close choice.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 04:18
I think this game doesn't follow the dethy model. In the game that turned up when I googled it, they got a Night zero investigation (the mafia couldn't kill that night). In this game it's basically useless, as I said day one.
Askthepizzaguy
03-11-2010, 04:20
I'd have to work it out on paper, but the last two Dethy games I was in, the town won, and in the second one we did it the "proper" way with investigations instead of blind lynches. And there was a Night One murder in that game, so I believe it is still very possible. I've never seen it done with a night zero investigation before.
johnhughthom
03-11-2010, 04:20
I wasn't paying close attention to this game, so I don't know.
What is close attention? A 200 page notebook filled with notes on the game?
Askthepizzaguy
03-11-2010, 04:21
What is close attention? A 200 page notebook filled with notes on the game?
no, but it might have been a page or two.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 04:28
I'd have to work it out on paper, but the last two Dethy games I was in, the town won, and in the second one we did it the "proper" way with investigations instead of blind lynches. And there was a Night One murder in that game, so I believe it is still very possible. I've never seen it done with a night zero investigation before.
According to this:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Dethy/Analysis
Cop head start is usually assumed.
Askthepizzaguy
03-11-2010, 04:34
According to this:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Dethy/Analysis
Cop head start is usually assumed.
Hmmm interesting.
I've never played it that way before. That seems even more game-breaking than the setup I've played.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 04:40
Hmmm interesting.
I've never played it that way before. That seems even more game-breaking than the setup I've played.
It seems like this setup isn't game breaking though.
If you lynch twice, base probability of town win is 53%. If you do investigations and clear one person, or if two people are contradicting each other somehow, the base percentage for town win is 50%. If you don't do either, it's 33%.
Since there are only 7 results, 2 of them fake, it doesn't seem probable that anything conclusive will be found.
Captain Blackadder
03-11-2010, 04:56
Day 3
It is the final day of the police investigation and once again Elerby comes forth and asks the cops to say who they think the rat is. Finally after three days the police present have an aswer for them "Captain Queenan sir" Staff Sargent Dingham and Trooper Brown say. Really says Elerby I always considered Queenian to be the loyalist of you all but if that is what you think that that is what it shall be take him away. With that the officers begin to drag Queenan away as they get out of sight. Queenan begins to beg Trooper Brown, "its Dingham for gods sack the rat is Dingham you've got to believe me." Dignham gets more and more upset with this turn of events and finally pulls his gun and shoots Queenan.
https://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6053/deathofquinan.png (https://img37.imageshack.us/i/deathofquinan.png/)
Capt Queenan (Saskai) is dead
Brown turns to Dingham and yells "what did you do that for?" Dingham turns and says it is simple for in actual fact I am the rat. Brown gasps "what how could I have known?"
"Simple," replies Dingham " The Staff Sergeant rank dosn't exist in the state police but now you have to die along with the last piece of evidence againest Costello also please dont call me Dingham the name is Sullivan, Colin Sullivan" He turns the pistol on Trooper Brown and kills him with a single shoot to the head.
With all the evidence destroyed the case againest Costello is finished but there is one more thing to go. Sullivan returns to Elerby and says. Capt it is crazy out there Brown was the mole Queenan was begging me to see that but I didn't then Brown turned the gun on Queenan and tried to kill me. But I got to him first. Now before all the rest of this happens I would like to say one thing. I wish to recommend that Billy Costigan, Barrigan and Captain Queenan are all given the Gold Medal of Valor." Elerby nods and says "That is a fine idea, Dingham you are a fine police officer and one that I feel would make an excellent new leader of the anti-gang task force congratulations.
Double A (Dingham/Sullivan) is Victorious
Mafia Victory
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 04:59
Epic game CB. One of my all time favorites :yes:
johnhughthom
03-11-2010, 05:02
Well played Double A.:bow:
Thanks for the game Cpt Blackadder.
Captain Blackadder
03-11-2010, 05:09
Roles and Alignment
Johnhughthom
Billy Costigan (Cop)
https://img534.imageshack.us/img534/949/leoo.png (https://img534.imageshack.us/i/leoo.png/)
You are Billy Costigan the undercover operative in the Irish Mob now that you mission is complete you were in hiding out in the woods until the trial was to start. However because you are the only one who has seen the mole even from a distance you have being brought in to find the mole.
Abilities
You may investigate one person each night phase.
Mod Note Naive
Secura
Officer Brown (Cop)
https://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3627/brown.png (https://img169.imageshack.us/i/brown.png/)
You are Officer Brown of the Boston Police. You are the man who whilst not always doing things the best way gets them done nonetheless. You are the backbone of the Police and you will find the mole soon enough
Abilities
You may investigate one person each night phase.
Mod Note Insane
Double A
Colin Sullivan (Rat)
https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5192/damonk.png (https://img522.imageshack.us/i/damonk.png/)
You are Colin Sullivan the rat in the Police Department you are to kill off all these other fools in the force and allow Frank Costello to get away scot free. Now you realise that other people in the force may have figured out it was you which is why you are going to wear a disguise of the most trustworthy member of the force Dingham whose role is below
Abilities
You may kill one person each night phase
Staff Sargeant Dingam (Cop)
https://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4383/walberg.png (https://img525.imageshack.us/i/walberg.png/)
You are Staff Sargeant Dingam of the State Police. A cool handed customer you are highly trusted by the police and luckily for them this trust is warranted. You are the ultimate in loyal cop you want to catch this rat so much it almost hurts. You are the one who goes beyond the call of Duty to get your man
Abilities
You may investigate one person each night phase
Saskai
Captain Queenan (Cop)[/B]
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8320/sheen.png (https://img229.imageshack.us/i/sheen.png/)
You are Captain Queenan head of the department into finding the mole so it is your head on the block if the mole manages to destroy that evidence. Find him before it is too late.
Abilities
You may investigate one person each night phase.
Mod Note Sane
Methos
Barrigan (Cop)
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5731/jamesbadgedaleone.jpg (https://img138.imageshack.us/i/jamesbadgedaleone.jpg/)
You are Barrigan the character that nobody really knows when you turned up at the end most people said who is that. Your answer would be a damn fine cop. You are going to be the one who finds the rat before the others because that is the kind of cop you are.
Abilities
You may investigate one person each night phase.
Mod Note Paranoid
I don't know if it's possible even now to determine the normal cops identity.
Who do you think was mafia out of the last three?
I'll post the analysis later today; I think it's on the other computer.
I don't know who I'd have gone with if forced to choose. I liked your argument against Secura on day one, though; I thought it was very strong, and her responses not reassuring. That you dropped it made me more suspicious of you.
Congrats, Double A.
Unfortunately Sasaki played a game, and kept trying to manulipate the investigation results so if he were the Mafia, he could have got anyway with it. It was obvious that Methos was going to die last night and Sasaki suggested a layout where Methos would die, it would make it to look like Secura was scummy. Also, John and Methos all suspected Sasaki, so it would have made sense for Sasaki to kill them.
What makes it even more weird, that Sasaki didn't reveal himself. He if revealed himself, he could have pushed Secura onto Double A and won the game.
I also disagree with Renata, the argument was very divertionary and only created the illusion of susipicion on which Sasaki would later rely on to try to lynch Secura and the Mafia just took advantage of that. Also, you only ever lynch in a Dethy when you are sure in a Dethy, not to give the Mafia a free ride, so Sasaki not dropping it would have painted a big red "scum" sticker on him.
To make it even worse, Sasaki said he was the Matt Damon character.
Though for my original analysis, I had it between Double A and Methos during Day 2.
I was on the brink of voting for Double A at first, because I felt his arguments under pressure were a little weak, though having been put through it firsthand in early rounds, I sympathised a little. However, all the scummy signs were there...
Sasaki, on the other hand, had been on my case for the entire game and had essentially ignored every attempt I made to defend myself; I'm sorry, but when I know I'm innocent and someone is that hellbent on me being the scum, I'm going to suspect something. As I said, I only told the truth the entire way through the game... it seemed it was only the reasoning of two dead players that absolved me of any culpability.
Obviously, you have already seen my post voting for Sasaki, but there was a second post saved in my inbox that was partly written in the event I voted Double A instead. It basically said that I felt Sasaki was a deserved winner for the way in which he had played the game, and that my vote for AA would mean that no matter the outcome, Sasaki would've won. If he'd been town, fantastic, if not, well he was a good mafia anyway...
...but I scrapped this at the last second. I was trying to finish my Double A argument, watch the rest of United-Milan (my father left Old Trafford ten mins early to beat traffic and text me saying 'watch utd, txt bk scores'), finish my prawn jalfrezi before it went completely cold (it was already luke-warm -_-') and had Beskar repeatedly sending game invites for R.U.S.E over Steam.
Beskar had gotten impatient, my dad was phoning from the car because I wasn't texting back... I grew annoyed and had grown tired of the stress of the game itself, so I simply copy-pasted the Sasaki vote (which I'd completed already) and posted it.
So yes, it was literally that close. I was about a paragraph away from voting Double A, but being pestered by family and friends led me to ditch the argument and go for the one already written. Sasaki had convinced me at the end that he wasn't the scum; I simply wasn't able to follow through with it.
johnhughthom
03-11-2010, 14:25
my father left Old Trafford ten mins early to beat traffic
Prawn sandwich alert.
:clown:
Iand had Beskar repeatedly sending game invites for R.U.S.E over Steam...Beskar had gotten impatient..,
For some one who said they were joining now and came 30 minutes-hour later after coming up with every excuse in existence, I sort of was impatient. :tongue:
Prawn sandwich alert.
Mmmm, prawns.
For some one who said they were joining now and came 30 minutes-hour later after coming up with every excuse in existence, I sort of was impatient.
Yeah, yeah...
I forgot to congratulate Double A on winning; you played it well, managing to stay under the radar and leave Sasaki and I to 'duke it out', so to speak. The pair of us basically did your work for you, really. You were close to being voted for though, but were saved by Steam, peshwari naans and Darren Fletcher. :P
Sorry, Sasaki... but thanks for a really good game. Shame we made each other out as scum, really. >.<
johnhughthom
03-11-2010, 14:36
I guess the obvious next step is to do it all over again, this time as the gangsters trying to find the police mole...
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 15:58
I'll post the analysis later today; I think it's on the other computer.
I don't know who I'd have gone with if forced to choose. I liked your argument against Secura on day one, though; I thought it was very strong, and her responses not reassuring. That you dropped it made me more suspicious of you.
Congrats, Double A.
It was strong. But townies can act very scummy, and it kind of hit me after being away from the argument for a few hours that secura was innocent and Double A was scum.
Sasaki, on the other hand, had been on my case for the entire game and had essentially ignored every attempt I made to defend myself; I'm sorry, but when I know I'm innocent and someone is that hellbent on me being the scum, I'm going to suspect something. As I said, I only told the truth the entire way through the game... it seemed it was only the reasoning of two dead players that absolved me of any culpability.
I don't think the reasoning of two dead players had anything to do with it. You did do many things in the game which are usually done by mafia:
1) claiming your role early to try and prove your innocence (mafia like to do this when they have a fakeclaim)
2) Assuring us that you didn't mind being investigated
3) Proposing "pro-town" strategies and acting like those who opposed were mafia
4) Implying through subtext that you thought I was town, and then essentially OMGUS voting me...
Like it or not, those are all things mafia frequently do. You have to watch for that. The only reason I decided to unvote you is that you didn't "feel" like mafia, and Double A really did.
Unfortunately Sasaki played a game, and kept trying to manulipate the investigation results so if he were the Mafia, he could have got anyway with it. It was obvious that Methos was going to die last night and Sasaki suggested a layout where Methos would die, it would make it to look like Secura was scummy. Also, John and Methos all suspected Sasaki, so it would have made sense for Sasaki to kill them.
It made perfect sense for Double A to kill them to. The layouts and investigations were meaningless, as I said several times. I didn't try and manipulate them at all :no:
What makes it even more weird, that Sasaki didn't reveal himself. He if revealed himself, he could have pushed Secura onto Double A and won the game.
Reveal what? My possible mod given fake claim?
I also disagree with Renata, the argument was very divertionary and only created the illusion of susipicion on which Sasaki would later rely on to try to lynch Secura and the Mafia just took advantage of that. Also, you only ever lynch in a Dethy when you are sure in a Dethy, not to give the Mafia a free ride, so Sasaki not dropping it would have painted a big red "scum" sticker on him.
This doesn't make any sense either. Double A revealed himself when he tried to take advantage of it. If I had left my vote on Secura she would have been lynched.
To make it even worse, Sasaki said he was the Matt Damon character.
:thinking:
******************
Backing off of scummy people when you have a bunch of "sunk cost" invested in the case is always hard though. I'm pleased that I managed it.
1) claiming your role early to try and prove your innocence (mafia like to do this when they have a fakeclaim)
Mafia or not, I wouldn't do this in a normal game; I've never played Dethy or a game with only five players. There were so few of us, and I was so underfire, I revealed my role because I felt there was no real choice.
2) Assuring us that you didn't mind being investigated
Which, of course, I didn't. The structure of your arguments against me left little room for movement; you seemed 100% convinced that I was the mafia, without any apparant chance it could be JHT, Methos or Double A. I don't really think that's the right way to go about playing the game, and if you had followed through with your lynch on Day One... well then the game would have been lost earlier.
While I knew that multiple people investigating me wasn't going to be a winning strategy for town, I didn't really have a choice but suggest it. That's all there was to it.
3) Proposing "pro-town" strategies and acting like those who opposed were mafia
Well, they were pro-town strategies; tactics that I had read that might give us a chance of winning. Looking back at the previous game now, I notice that Pizza did this and wasn't jumped on for doing so. And he was town also.
You were the only person who opposed, and it wasn't that fact which made me believe that you were mafia, but the extent to which you attacked that was suspicious. I'm sorry, but I think any mafia that would post as much as I did, so soon and in such a small game, is a flipping fool.
As we now know, the game was won by Double A essentially keeping a low profile throughout and only really coming out of the woodwork to vote or defend himself. You mentioned Schrödinger's Cat as your method of eliminating him as a suspect... if you'd allowed others to post themselves rather than jumping on what I said from the get-go, perhaps you might have noticed more suspect behaviour.
4) Implying through subtext that you thought I was town, and then essentially OMGUS voting me...
I implied you were town, though you had to read between the lines to find it, but this was merely a technique to gauge your response; I had been weary of you from the get-go. As Beskar text me earlier "you were arguing it was Sasaki all along and I thought it was Methos or Double A". My vote on the final day was justified in how you had been behaving throughout the game, and several players I spoke to via PM agreed with me.
In trying to defend myself against your early arguments, I made myself out to be more scummy, but in turn you were making yourself appear scummy in what I assume were attempts to make me crack and admit who I was or whatever the purpose of all that pressure was. The suggestion of "Secura investigates Methos, Methos investigates Secura" was one of the things that stood out not just to me, but at least two others I spoke to as well.
The town losing the game cannot be attributed solely to me, surely? :/
Sasaki Kojiro
03-11-2010, 18:42
Mafia or not, I wouldn't do this in a normal game; I've never played Dethy or a game with only five players. There were so few of us, and I was so underfire, I revealed my role because I felt there was no real choice.
Which, of course, I didn't. The structure of your arguments against me left little room for movement; you seemed 100% convinced that I was the mafia, without any apparant chance it could be JHT, Methos or Double A. I don't really think that's the right way to go about playing the game, and if you had followed through with your lynch on Day One... well then the game would have been lost earlier.
While I knew that multiple people investigating me wasn't going to be a winning strategy for town, I didn't really have a choice but suggest it. That's all there was to it.
WIFOM doesn't work well as a defense though. If you try and use it to defend yourself, people who think you are suspicious will always take the mafia side of the wifom. I know this from many many past experiences, lol. You didn't exactly believe what I said about "I wouldn't have switched my vote to double A if I was mafia" did you?
All those kind of arguments don't work well, and are most often used by mafia when the don't have any other defense. I think mine at the end was strong enough to put out there, it's possible I shouldn't have mentioned it and hoped someone else brought it up (that always gives it more weight).
Well, they were pro-town strategies; tactics that I had read that might give us a chance of winning. Looking back at the previous game now, I notice that Pizza did this and wasn't jumped on for doing so. And he was town also.
But if mafia were going to pretend to be pro town, they would copy a strategy without analyzing it. It's hard to call someone mafia for proposing a non optimal strategy though, so it isn't a strong argument. But mafia often enter the game with a "let's see, how can I convince them I'm town" strategy. Not all mafia lurk. I remember in another mini mafia we caught one of the scum when he tried to act like he was very pro town but his suggestions were actually flawed.
You were the only person who opposed, and it wasn't that fact which made me believe that you were mafia, but the extent to which you attacked that was suspicious. I'm sorry, but I think any mafia that would post as much as I did, so soon and in such a small game, is a flipping fool.
But see, that's a "mafia wouldn't do this" argument again. I certainly posted a bunch didn't I? And you suspected me. Pkev as my scumpartner in taormina used the "I wouldn't post this much as new mafia" argument successfully.
As we now know, the game was won by Double A essentially keeping a low profile throughout and only really coming out of the woodwork to vote or defend himself. You mentioned Schrödinger's Cat as your method of eliminating him as a suspect... if you'd allowed others to post themselves rather than jumping on what I said from the get-go, perhaps you might have noticed more suspect behaviour.
I didn't eliminate him as a suspect...that was the point. He was either guilty or innocent, we wouldn't know until he started posting more. But most people (townies included) only have a handful of posts in these mini games. So you pick a gut feel and push it. You say yourself you became more scummy as you defended yourself.
I implied you were town, though you had to read between the lines to find it, but this was merely a technique to gauge your response; I had been weary of you from the get-go. As Beskar text me earlier "you were arguing it was Sasaki all along and I thought it was Methos or Double A". My vote on the final day was justified in how you had been behaving throughout the game, and several players I spoke to via PM agreed with me.
I don't understand the technique :/
In trying to defend myself against your early arguments, I made myself out to be more scummy, but in turn you were making yourself appear scummy in what I assume were attempts to make me crack and admit who I was or whatever the purpose of all that pressure was. The suggestion of "Secura investigates Methos, Methos investigates Secura" was one of the things that stood out not just to me, but at least two others I spoke to as well.
But if you think that was scummy, then you see why saying "I don't mind everyone investigating me" is scummy.
The town losing the game cannot be attributed solely to me, surely? :/
Of course not, I didn't manage to convince you.
But that wasn't the point of this post-game discussion. I just wanted to explain why I found you so suspicious. At least you know I play like this as town...it really works the best in these kinds of games. You don't get mafia lynched without latching on and attacking them. Mafia will always put up as reasonable a defense as possible.
WIFOM doesn't work well as a defense though. If you try and use it to defend yourself, people who think you are suspicious will always take the mafia side of the wifom. I know this from many many past experiences, lol. You didn't exactly believe what I said about "I wouldn't have switched my vote to double A if I was mafia" did you?
All those kind of arguments don't work well, and are most often used by mafia when the don't have any other defense.
I should have known this based upon my own experiences as both town and mafia; it's the sort of arguments I remember making as a complete newbie to the game; I lapsed right back into it under pressure, which sucks.
But if mafia were going to pretend to be pro town, they would copy a strategy without analyzing it. It's hard to call someone mafia for proposing a non optimal strategy though, so it isn't a strong argument. But mafia often enter the game with a "let's see, how can I convince them I'm town" strategy. Not all mafia lurk. I remember in another mini mafia we caught one of the scum when he tried to act like he was very pro town but his suggestions were actually flawed.
Well, I did analyse them privately, but I agree that perhaps not doing so publicly could draw attention to what I was saying; from previous places where I played, mafia were more prone to lurking then making blatant stand-out-in-the-crowd posts like I did, so I'm not really familiar with mafia leaping out and trying to be pro-town like that.
I didn't eliminate him as a suspect...that was the point. He was either guilty or innocent, we wouldn't know until he started posting more. But most people (townies included) only have a handful of posts in these mini games.
That's the thing... I think people should have actively posted more. Day One and Two were pretty quiet and discussion only really kicked off when we reached the final phase. There was never any real pressure for the quieter people (in this case, Methos and Double A) to come out and post... perhaps I should've thrown a vote out there to put some pressure on, but by that point I think it was firmly on me anyway. :P
So you pick a gut feel and push it. You say yourself you became more scummy as you defended yourself.
Yes, exactly. I felt that my first posts were actually fairly innocent; it was my attempts to defend the small holes you found that led to me appearing increasingly scummy. It's been a while since I've had to react to that much pressure piled upon me, and it was arguably harder to deal with than previous occasions because this time, I knew I was a townie, and I knew that if I was lynched, the town's chances of winning were going to decrease.
I don't understand the technique :/
Granted, it sounds better in my head, and it wasn't entirely successful. It's difficult to explain, and probably not worth the time.
But if you think that was scummy, then you see why saying "I don't mind everyone investigating me" is scummy.
Well, what stood out about myself and Methos investigating each other was that I knew that Methos (or Double A) was going to be killed; it would have worked out amazingly well for the mafia if Methos had been killed in those circumstances; my result on him would have been discredited (he's dead, coulda made it up) and his result on me couldn't have been revealed. I could have argued "why would I kill him and make myself more suspicious?", but based upon how much my previous arguments had been torn apart, I'd have been fighting a losing battle. :P
Of course not, I didn't manage to convince you.
Well, in the end, you actually did... I wasn't far off posting a Double A vote.
I was hoping DoubleA would post his reasonings for killing the people he did.
I think it was always going to be a case of leaving myself and Sasaki alive to the end; with the pair of us tearing strips off one another, killing us wouldn't have helped him stay under the radar, so to speak.
If both Sasaki and I were dead, it would have meant he would have to post more to avoid the suspicion of you and JHT. :3
Double A
03-12-2010, 02:38
Secura, Sasaki, you both played extremly well, and I still don't know how I beat you.
Which reminds me. The game's over, you can stop arguing now :tongue:
I was hoping DoubleA would post his reasonings for killing the people he did.
N1 was mostly a random pick. Actually, I think I had a reason, but I forgot it.
I picked you so 1) it would make Secura look more guilty, as she could possibly kill her investigator to take less heat off her, and 2) so Sasaki and she would duke it out while I acted like they were both scummy (which you both were acting like) and vote for one of them.
I probably should have first said that Sasaki was innocent, making it seem like I was insane and Secura was sane, which would also take potential heat off me. Sasaki in turn would look very guilty. But instead I just went for the "I'm paranoid and my results don't matter, carry on with the deathmatch" route.
Sasaki Kojiro
03-12-2010, 02:40
How were you feeling when I switched to you and secura decided to unvote? Did you think you had it in the bag before then?
Inquiring minds want to know :p
Double A
03-12-2010, 03:00
Yeah, which is why I took so long to reply. Like Secura, I tried to go to sleep, and then I couldn't.
Freakin insomnia.
Hahaha, thanks to Thermal I found out how to read post counts:
Secura: 54
Sasaki: 52
JHT: 32
Methos: 23
Double A: 19
Lurker victory! :P
Double A
03-15-2010, 02:16
Strange... normally I have at least 3rd with post count. I subconsciously lurked...
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