Chosing a web browser [Archive]

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Peasant Phill

03-29-2010, 17:16

For some reason, windows chose today as the day to enact on the European order and give me a choice between its Internet explorer and a few other web browsers.
As the computer layman that I am, I have absolutly no clue which browser to take. My main criteria are user-friendlyness and security.

So do any of you have a recommendation?

Thanks in advance.

Pannonian

03-29-2010, 17:47

Firefox. With the range of add-ons available, it's an easy to way to virtually make your own browser. My current add-ons:

Noscript: Javascript switched off by default, but you can enable it for individual sites. This cuts out one of the most common causes of nastiness, unless you actively let them in.
Adblock: Can block individual objects such as images, or entire ranges, such as anything from http://spamstuff.com/*.
Flashblock: Disables flash by default, unless you enable individual objects. No more memory leakage from flash unless you actively decide to let it.
Menu Editor: Easy way to manage overlong menus, both on the toolbar and context menus. Remove the items you don't want, and arrange the ones you do want so it's tidier.

Most IE and other browser functions are replicable with one add-on or another.

Tellos Athenaios

03-29-2010, 18:03

I use Opera myself, in preference to Firefox. Reasons why you might choose Opera:

Speeddial. Bookmarks but *much* better; as the name implies you get “hotkeys” for the first 9 items in speeddial.
Password management that I can make heads and tails of. Firefox has it, too, except that the part where automatic log in is supposed to come into play doesn't work as nicely. (Ctrl + Enter in Opera if you've selected the relevant form/textbox.) Actually Opera's entire personal details -> automatic filling in of forms works pretty smoothly.
Fine grained control over things like cookies (you can set preferences on a website-by-website basis).
Search using keywords. For instance typing “g hello world” in the address bar is a google search; “w hello world” a wikipedia search and so on.
Download manager that can resume broken downloads, re-download etc..
Built in mail client for IMAP/POP3 type mail; built in IRC client.
Built in mechanism to block whatever content/site you don't want to see.
3rd party extensions like the kill button to zap adverts if you don't want to use the built in blocking mechanism. http://operawiki.info/PowerButtons
Support for SVG (scalable graphics), MathML (mathematics markup language, useful if you are doing/reading Math a lot), (experimental) HTML 5, (experimental) CSS 3.
It is fast, and I find its “Turbo” feature quite useful (compressed websites with reduced image quality and plugins disabled [you have to manually click a lego brick for each plugin item you do want to play] when I'm on a slower network.
Standards compliant; which is mainly useful to know. Passes Acid3 test with 100% score; i.e. pixel perfect rendering.

drone

03-29-2010, 19:30

IE FTW! ~D

I use Firefox with AdBlock and NoScript add-ons. AdBlock is pure win just by itself. NoScript keeps you safe, although it can be a bit of a pain getting some websites to work when they have multi-domain content.

Peasant Phill

03-29-2010, 19:41

Pannonian

03-29-2010, 19:57

I had a feeling it would go between Opera and Firefox.
All those add-ons are all nice and all but quite frankly I'm to lazy and don't care enough to look for good add-ons or change settings when on a different website.
I can see myself making extensive use of the search keywords though.

Are these two browser vastly different from explorer in terms of use? And if so are they intuitive enough to get the hang of it quickly enough?

All browsers are broadly similar, with the exception of Google Chrome, which is very different in design. Of Firefox and Opera, Firefox is probably closer to IE in design.

And about add-ons: they don't require much effort to find. You can use the vanilla browser if you don't want to add anything. Then if you want additional functionality, find an appropriate add-on. Once it's installed, you don't need to do anything else, unless you want to further customise it. What marks out Firefox is its potential. You can use as much or as little of it as you want.

Subotan

03-29-2010, 22:47

Firefox, both for the sweet, sweet Adblock and the impregnable fortress that is Firefox's security. Once you get comfortable with that, you may decide to get other addons to totally customise your browsing experience.

I have no experience with Opera, so I can't comment, but Chrome is like a streamlined, fast Firefox, without the Adbloc, so that's my secondary browser (Incognito is useful as well....) You should definitely dump Internet Explorer though. You'll be continually asking yourself why you didn't do it earlier.

Husar

03-29-2010, 23:30

Opera.

Tellos Athenaios already gave a good list, but there are some more features he didn't mention(maybe he doesn't like them as much?).

- Opera link, synchronizes your bookmarks etc. between all your Opera browsers (does seem to go wrong a bit now and then though, will have to re-sort my bookmarks, but it's really nice when it works)
- Opera unite, allows you to host content on your PC for your friends etc. rather new, not sure how secure it is
- works on more or less every device, I got it in Windows, in Linux, had it on my old windows mobile-based smartphone and would love for Apple to approve it for the iPhone, not that I got my hopes up though...

Concerning adblock...
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars

Tellos Athenaios

03-30-2010, 00:26

Good point(s). I left out quite a few features of Opera (haven't yet tried Opera link and unite). To be fair on Firefox it does run reasonably well outside Windows; but there is no denying that Firefox is first and foremost a Windows browser.

A myth worth dispelling is that Firefox (or Browser-Of-The-Month) is somehow a magical impregnable fortress of invincible security. It isn't. It really isn't. No particular browser is. (It takes but a faulty Flash version to vanish any illusions.)

In actual fact Firefox (in particular) is vulnerable to types of attacks that are otherwise quite specific to Microsoft products: those that rely on a faulty ActiveX component. ActiveX is how programs can be embedded inside other programs in the Microsoft world and it is how plugins work in Internet Explorer. Firefox supports a slightly different flavour of ActiveX called XPCOM. Since ActiveX is quite a thoroughly canvassed subject in the realm of drive-by-download and similar ploys it should take a majority market share in a sufficiently lucrative market (e.g. EU) for the XPCOM equivalents to crop up.

drone

03-30-2010, 01:25

Concerning adblock...
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars

Until sites take responsibility for the ads that get put on their pages, I'm sticking with my AdBlock. Even big, respected sites get malware infested ads occasionally.

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-30-2010, 02:28

Firefox has a lot of the features in that Opera list (or plug-ins that do them if the core doesn't). Opera is definitely faster than FF, but I cannot get used to the layout (and it's no-script equivalent is next to non-functioning in terms of ease of use). I'm willing to trade speed for a better user experience, which boils down to what you're used to.

And FF has private browsing like incognito - Ctrl + Shift + p

Subotan

03-30-2010, 09:41

Concerning adblock...
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars
Well they shouldn't host adverts that are disgusting (E.g.Teeth whitening adverts....ugh), annoying (E.g.Anything that plays sound) or malicious (E.g. GET RIPPED IN 14 DAYS YOU FATASS)

And FF has private browsing like incognito - Ctrl + Shift + pHm, interesting

Pannonian

03-30-2010, 09:47

Until sites take responsibility for the ads that get put on their pages, I'm sticking with my AdBlock. Even big, respected sites get malware infested ads occasionally.

I mainly find adblock useful for blocking 5MB animated sigs. If a page loads slowly, I check to see what's loading. If I see any animated gifs, I block them and refresh. People seem to think that, now that the age of broadband is here, their sigs have to expand accordingly. Prats.

Husar

03-30-2010, 09:59

http://lifehacker.com/5432054/opera-105-pre+alpha-is-all-about-speed-and-private-browsing

The final version of this is already out, on Windows at least.
So Opera has private browsing, too.

Subotan

03-30-2010, 10:12

I notice how they don't even bother comparing it to IE :laugh4:

***

This sums it up pretty well:
https://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1888/browsercomparison.jpg

Fragony

03-30-2010, 13:10

Can't really go wrong with any of them, they all work fine.

naut

03-30-2010, 13:40

Firefox has a lot of nice features, add-ons and themes. Easy to use if you are switching from IE.

Opera has a very sleak interface, is very straight-forward, easy to use, but may take some getting used to.

Personally I like both, and I have both. Why not download both and test them both out and see which you prefer? They are only small downloads after all.

Or you could throw everyone off and get the Windows version of Safari. :wink2:

Peasant Phill

03-30-2010, 21:42

I've just downloaded Opera and i'm testing it out as we speak but it seems I already run into a little snag. it seems I can't post here on the .Org wit Opera (PMing works just fine). I'm sure it's a simple setting but it's still ...

Tellos Athenaios

03-30-2010, 23:08

Why not? What does not work? All the more odd because the obvious things are default: you have to accept (some) Cookies, but Opera does do that by default; and you have to allow redirection -- which again Opera does do by default. Still, if it does not work you can try setting options specific to the ORG (forums.totalwar.org) by right clicking and selecting “Edit Site Preferences” from the context menu. Same preferences can be set for *all* sites from Tools -> Preferences -> Advanced.

naut

03-30-2010, 23:43

CrossLOPER

03-31-2010, 04:11

Firefox with noscript, adblock, and flashblock.

/thread

Peasant Phill

03-31-2010, 22:21

Husar

03-31-2010, 22:29

In what way was IE better for you?
I use IE now and then but prefer Opera and FF by a long shot.

Pannonian

03-31-2010, 22:32

I think I found the the reason about the problem I had before. It seems that Opera (or myself) may have logged on to the .Org with an account I haven't used in a few years. I didn't spot it until today, given the fact that I usually don't have to bather with those things.

I'm still getting the hang of Opera. I'll have to read up on it before it truly becomes better for me then explorer was. Any good info you might point me at?

Tabbed browsing has already been taken up by IE, so that's not such a big plus any more. Play around with opening links and closing tabs with mouse gestures. It's only implemented, rather clunkily, with add-ons in Firefox, and AFAIK not at all in IE. Also, get Task Manager up to monitor resource usage, and load up something big in Opera, and see how much resources it uses. Then minimise Opera, and check the figures again. For sheer efficiency of browsing, nothing equals Opera.

Subotan

03-31-2010, 22:47

Can you get Adblock for Opera?

Tellos Athenaios

03-31-2010, 23:45

For the search, try: Tools -> Preferences -> Search.
For skins if you are so inclined; try Tools -> Appearance.
For help; try visiting `opera:help'. This causes you to be redirected to a http://help.opera.com (with a help page relevant to the version of Opera you use).

Note that if you add your sites/search engines to the list in Tools -> Prefernces -> Search that %s denotes the search query: e.g.: www.google.com/images?q=%s is expanded to www.google.com/images?q=hello+world when you search for "hello world" using the keywords.

Tellos Athenaios

03-31-2010, 23:57

Right click a site and select `block content'. See: http://operawiki.info/BlockAdvertisements?show_comments=0

Beskar

04-01-2010, 11:39

Firefox is the superior browser.

Husar

04-01-2010, 13:53

Because it crashes a superior number of times?

Beskar

04-01-2010, 14:42

Because it crashes a superior number of times?

That is IE. Never had firefox crash once.

Subotan

04-01-2010, 16:10

I've had it crash twice, but that was only because I had about 30 tabs open, or something

caravel

04-01-2010, 17:13

Because it crashes a superior number of times?
Which version of Firefox and on which arch. type? I'm saying this because I've only seen firefox crash a handful of times and I've been using it since 0.x Phoenix/Firebird releases.

Most Firefox crashes are down to badly coded add ons.